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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: hope rainbow on October 14, 2011, 07:48:12 AM
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When I help a friend financially, I have less money for me, right?
When I help a colleague at work, I compromise my own efficiency, right?
When I give some of my time to help a charity, I lose some of my leisure time, right?
When I have to take my neighbour to the hospital in the middle of the night, I loose my sleeping time, right?
When I lend my car to somebody, I have no car!
It seems as if helping others is always at my expenses, I always have to give something up!
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As long as we make a distinction between "others" and "I", we will definitely have those feelings that HR mentioned. To overcome this concept of "others" and "I" , Buddha gave 84,000 teachings.
The Gelug lineage is very fortunate to have the Lamrim , which is a condensation of all the 84,000 teachings.
For me personally, one way that can help over come this attachment to "I", "My" , "Mine" or attachment to my comforts is to reflect :
Would I be truly happy if I just sit by and not lift a finger to help the people around me that are in trouble and need help ?
In the beginning, we "sacrificed" a little bit of our money & time to help others. Slowly, we increase our capacity . It is really a process to re-habituate our natural selfish tendency. If we combine this process with spiritual practice , our progress would be faster and more joyful.
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Thank you Kurava. :)
This attachment to "I", "My" , "Mine" is very strong though, what do you find most helpful to overcome these attachments when one becomes challenged to let go of them?
This challenge is a breaking point for some and a step-up for others, what do you think make people react differently then?
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Precise observation and nobody can debate what you have pointed out. That's how the majority live their lives.
Well, what i learnt in Buddhism which offers me a different perspective is that all that we have comes from someone else to start with. We haver received so much more in our countless lifetimes and have not remembered what help and teachings we have received which has brought about the conditions we have in this very lifetime. In this very lifetime, we were born totally helpless and our family has helped protected us from harm and nurtured us well. Thanks to mom who has fed and cleaned us but, unfortunately we have no recollection at all.
Even the food we eat daily, though we may have just paid $6.99 or what not with our "hard earned money",... just thinking about the many people involved in growing the crops, harvesting it, transporting it, preparing it, packing it, making it available at the grocery stores/restaurants, cooking it, serving it... gosh... Perhaps it's about them earning money at each step of the way too, but I am sure along the way, many have given something more than what money can ever compensate them with. Thanks to the many involved in all the conveniences we enjoy, but unfortunately, we have no awareness of what went into $6.99.
The $6.99 is not just a packet of food, but a fraction of someone's life went into it, someone's talent, someone's effort,...etc.
This view of remembering the kindness of all sentient beings, has helped me to see a little wider and a little deeper, that what I have and able to give is due to countless who may directly or indirectly given to me to begin with.
Therefore, when opportunity arise for us to "give", in actuality, we do not loose anything,.. but only right to repay kindnesses. Easier said than done, .... but hey, that's why we are still called practitioners and not masters :)
cheers
When I help a friend financially, I have less money for me, right?
When I help a colleague at work, I compromise my own efficiency, right?
When I give some of my time to help a charity, I lose some of my leisure time, right?
When I have to take my neighbour to the hospital in the middle of the night, I loose my sleeping time, right?
When I lend my car to somebody, I have no car!
It seems as if helping others is always at my expenses, I always have to give something up!
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Well, what I learnt in Buddhism which offers me a different perspective is that all that we have comes from someone else to start with.
Wow, that says it all.
DSFriend, that is well explained.
Thank's a lot!
I'll try not to forget this.
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When we helped others, it is not at our expense but a chance for us to repay the kindness of others who have helped us in one way or another either in this life or in previous lives. When we contemplate that all beings for many countless lifetimes have been other mothers in the past, anyone we helped in this lifetime could be our mother in the previous life who had nurture and protect us from harm. Even in this lifetime, everything we need come from someone who had put in their time and effort to cater to our needs. So if we have the opportunity to help others, just do it. It is better to give than to receive.
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When I help a friend financially, I have less money for me, right?
When I help a colleague at work, I compromise my own efficiency, right?
When I give some of my time to help a charity, I lose some of my leisure time, right?
When I have to take my neighbour to the hospital in the middle of the night, I loose my sleeping time, right?
When I lend my car to somebody, I have no car!
It seems as if helping others is always at my expenses, I always have to give something up!
When you put the questions in this way, it is right that by helping others, it is at your expense.
You can look at it this way.
When I help a friend financially, I am making a friend's ends meet. And it makes me feel good.
When I help a colleague at work, we work together to get things done for the company.
When I give some of my time to help a charity, I am using my time fruitfully instead on wasting time on useless entertainment.
When I have to take my neighbour to the hospital in the middle of the night, I am saving his life. And human life is precious.
When I lend my car to somebody, I am helping someone in an emergency.
No doubt you are giving something up, but is there something you gain from it also which can't be measured? How do you feel after that?
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It seems as if helping others is always at my expenses, I always have to give something up!
Our self-grasping mind places extreme importance to our “I” that does not exist inherently. We have also nurtured this “I” since begin-less time. As a consequence, we have become very selfish. Yes, at the outset our mind thinks that when we help others, we deprive ourselves of the advantage, benefit, time etc. that are lost or sacrificed while we help others.
As mentioned above, countless sentient beings have benefited us in countless ways since begin-less time. There is no one sentient being who has not benefited us in one way or another in the past. There is going to be many other sentient beings that will be benefitting us in the future.
When we help others now, others will help us later. When we practise generosity or giving now, we will definitely receive inner and outer wealth in the future. We are only one person whereas others are countless. If we help others, we will accumulate vast amount of merits as compared to helping merely ourselves which bring no us no merits at all. When we help others it is always not at our expense, in fact it is helping us to give up our self-cherishing mind - the cause of our sufferings!
Hence we should strive to always think of and benefiting others. As benefiting others is the cause of future happiness whereas benefiting ourselves is the cause of further sufferings. If we want to become enlightened, the only way is to benefit others because only through benefiting others could we gain vast amount of merits which are required for Enlightenment.
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We are only one person whereas others are countless.
If we help others, we will accumulate vast amount of merits as compared to helping merely ourselves which bring no merits at all.
This sounds logical!
Thank you Dondrup
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"In the beginning, we "sacrificed" a little bit of our money & time to help others. Slowly, we increase our capacity . It is really a process to re-habituate our natural selfish tendency. If we combine this process with spiritual practice , our progress would be faster and more joyful."
Thanks Kurava ! I totally agreed with you, before I met dharma, I use to operate from "ME" "I" & "MINE" system, everything can react in a very calculative and selfish way. Nowadays, when I help others I slowly experience the change in my thoughts, I do not really feel the act is at my expenses.
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Me, myself and I... We always indulge in ourselves, be it work or personal. Since young we were sort of taught "you have to help yourself first before u help others, love yourself etc..". Therefore we were cultivated a kinda selfish mind that reflects on our actions.
Often we need to make choice. Look over the choices you made. Perhaps you choose to do some charity work during your free time instead of going out to chill, because you choose to do it over the alternatives, you value it and you want to help others..while most of the people would choose to go out have fun with friends rather than doing something good for others. This is all about personal values and perceptions. The decisions they make reflect these values and perceptions. Selfish and selfless, are determined by how much you want to get rid of your self-cherishing mind.
Next time when people say "I want to help you", it can be either by helping you they are actually helping themselves, or either they really want to help you, sincerely and never expect anything in return. It is the motivation that is important.
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Indulging my self is like pure selfishness. Everything is me,me, me… Being a Buddhist it help us to understand that we should change and operates differently from how we were before so that we can become better than usual. Helping people in my own capability is the best return.
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Dear HR,
You are absolutely right. Helping others is about giving up things we like . But what are our expenses? All the objects that give rise to our attachment . When we start to get less obsessed about ourselves and our collection of objects such as money , jewellery , possessions, reputation etc we receive opportunity to experience directly that we are better off without them.With material things,I am not refering to giving up necessities or essentials but surplus things acquired due to our over indulgence and greed. In the process we gain wisdom realizing that external possessions are not causes of true happiness even though they can bring some excitement initially.
With regard to our self centred views and thoughts , we gain a most beautiful mind that is free from worldly concerns which allow us to experience the freedom to be able to love all, to cherish all and to be most useful to others. It is the bestest deal and bestest ROI in the whole known universe !
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The very statement sounds contradictory however the general view of most is precisely that! For me personally, if one is truly giving one does not even contemplate a loss of any sort. It is actually a gain. A gain in friendship, a gain in trust, a gain in love... etc.
When we give we tend to expect something back.. that is out downfall. When we do so, and the expectation is not met (which is probably most of the time especially when we throw expectations on something or someone) we get discouraged and unhappy.
It reminds me of a teaching that was related to me by one of my Dharma sisters in that during an audience with a teacher, one of the students had prepared an elaborate and expensive offering and was very eager to present it to the teacher. There were a few people in the audience and they were all lining up to present their respective gifts.
After this particular student presented his gift he went to the side and watched in "horror" as the teacher promptly "gave away" his gift to the next person in line. That particular student was horrified and visibly upset. This is a very clear example of how when we give we expect something back.
But little do we realise.... the moment we give, whatever has been given DOES NOT belong to us anymore and is the prerogative of the receiver to do as he or she pleases. That I thought was a great lesson in giving, humility and letting go!
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This is interesting statement "helping others at own expenses". From the point of logical i totally agreed this is consider expenses. Very simple calculation if you make donation by withdrawing your own pocket money, this is expenses.
But Lets don't say big words like help others due to your compassion, practicing dharma or gain tremendously merits in order to benefits all sentient beings. For my point of view, if i help others because i can't take it. I can't take it seeing some one in front of me very suffering,sick,old and poor,homeless or etc, and i just need to give away some money to help them and effect change immediately. I immediately willing and choose to help. I always believe all human beings got kind heart deeply inside.
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When I help a friend financially, I have less money for me, right?
When I help a colleague at work, I compromise my own efficiency, right?
When I give some of my time to help a charity, I lose some of my leisure time, right?
When I have to take my neighbour to the hospital in the middle of the night, I loose my sleeping time, right?
When I lend my car to somebody, I have no car!
It seems as if helping others is always at my expenses, I always have to give something up!
This is a situation where it is either we see our glass half full or half empty.
When we help others, we actually gain more than we can even imagine. To people that are spiritual, helping others is a spiritual practice by itself. And even if a person is not spiritual or have a certain shallow knowledge in spirituality, by helping someone, we will definitely feel more positive and feel better about ourselves for having the ability to make a difference in someone's life.
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It seems as if helping others is always at my expenses, I always have to give something up!
We will always think we are sacrificing something when we help others as long as we have the habit of thinking "What about ME?" whenever we "help" someone. This habitual reaction to a situation where we are being asked to give help will always prevent us from moving out of our comfort zones.
It is easy enough for ME to give help to others as long as it doesn't take up too much of MY time, if I happen to have change in my pocket, if I don't have to drive too far or do a huge detour, if I don't have too much work, if MY other priorities don't pop up all of a sudden...
The test comes when the help required doesn't meet all the above conditions. How do we still help others joyfully when we cannot help the person the way we want to help but must help the way that person needs to be helped?
I think one of the ways to overcome this selfish thinking when helping others, is to practice "equalizing self with others". This is where we put other people's happiness to the same rank of importance as our own happiness. There's a discussion on this here http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1903.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1903.0)
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To be able to GIVE is a blessing. This is what we were taught since young age, and it is so similar from Buddha's teaching! In order to gain, we have to give first. The ability to give in this lifetime, came from the good karma we had collected in our previous life times via giving.
Hence, when we are engaging in the act of giving (sharing too), we should rejoice to the fact that we have the ability and capability to GIVE instead of dwelling into whether we lose anything in the process or as the result of giving!
Let's look at the act of giving - when we spend our time helping in charitable acts, on the face of it, we do lose time, but we will still lose the same amount of time even if we spend our time on the couch watching TV shows! We are looking how time is being spent and not how much time has been spent..
similarly we spend money supporting charities, this is not lost because the financial resources had been put to good use instead of being wasted in other ways.
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All the examples mentioned by Hope Rainbow are examples of selfishness or self-cherishing. To counter these selfish attitudes, we need to develop loving kindness, the first of the four immeasurables. Loving kindness is the wish for others to be happy and well. Before one can develop compassion and bodhicitta, one has to develop loving kindness. To do this, we need to develop appreciation and loving kindness for ourselves. If we can't appreciate ourselves, it would be difficult to appreciate others. Once we have generated this thought of loving kindness towards ourselves, we can develop this thought towards others, to include more people and more beings. If we find it difficult, we can practice with people that we like first, then extend it to others. It is important to remember that loving kindness, compassion and bodhicitta have no limit. That is why they are called "boundless" or "immeasurable".
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Hope Rainbow's quote :
When I help a friend financially, I have less money for me, right?
When I help a colleague at work, I compromise my own efficiency, right?
When I give some of my time to help a charity, I lose some of my leisure time, right?
When I have to take my neighbour to the hospital in the middle of the night, I loose my sleeping time, right?
When I lend my car to somebody, I have no car!
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1. I believe that if you do not spend, where will the others get money to spend? You spendings become the earnings of another; so by helping financially you may have less for yourself but it is only for a short while - do you not see how your small amount has made the other party come out of a difficult situation?
2. When you help a colleague at work, you have taken time off from your own work but in the end the whole team gets the job done - is that not what it is all about to foster teamwork?
3. Giving your time to charity is taking away some of your leisurely time but think of all the happy faces that you have helped by your small sacrifice.
4. You help a neighbour, you lose some sleep. Is your sleep more important than helping save someone else?
5. Well yes you do not get to use your use when it is lent to another person, but is there no other means of transport?
I guess it all boils down to getting alternatives and coming out of our selfish shell.
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Dear Hope Rainbow,
I agree with you. Outwardly it may seem so. But if we have truly taken refuge in the Three Jewels, then we should take Shantideva's quote to heart;
For as long as space remains
For as long as sentient beings remain
Until then may I too remain
To dispel the miseries of the world.
So if we cant even let go and help our colleague and friend (which is so miniscule), how can we ever be able to serve all sentient beings? Tough I know, thats why its called spiritual PRACTICE!
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When I help a friend financially, I have less money for me, right?
When I help a colleague at work, I compromise my own efficiency, right?
When I give some of my time to help a charity, I lose some of my leisure time, right?
When I have to take my neighbour to the hospital in the middle of the night, I loose my sleeping time, right?
When I lend my car to somebody, I have no car!
It seems as if helping others is always at my expenses, I always have to give something up!
It is "always at my expense" if I look it in the way of what I can get back from helping this person, what benefit does it bring me? If it doesn't bring me any benefit, then it means that I am going out of my way to help that person, I am giving up something that I can use for myself, be it time, money, effort , hence anything I do for this person is at my expense if I cannot get anything out from this.
It is sad but true. This is how we operate, from the basis of I. The root of all our sufferings.
But it doesnt mean that everyone operates that way. I have seen many people extremely happy helping others without wanting anything in return.. and guess what? .. their happiness lasts longer than those who gets something in return! There's always different ways to look at something..how you look at it depends on you, the choices you make, and the motivation behind your choices.
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When I help a friend financially, I have less money for me, right?
When I help a colleague at work, I compromise my own efficiency, right?
When I give some of my time to help a charity, I lose some of my leisure time, right?
When I have to take my neighbour to the hospital in the middle of the night, I loose my sleeping time, right?
When I lend my car to somebody, I have no car!
It seems as if helping others is always at my expenses, I always have to give something up!
Giving to other without expect something in return is one way to create a cause to cut our attachment and increase the generosity which is one of six paramita. In order to overcome the selfishness which always think only I and me me me so we practice generosity.
If you look in another way,
If that money is spend for your own expenses or your children expense you won't feel anything.
If the time you spend more for your work you won't feel anything.
If the time you spend it with your family member you won't feel that.
If the time you spend for go out for party or to send your family member to hospital, you wont feel anything.
If you give car to your spouse or children you won't feel anything, eventually you don't have a car same.
The bottom line is because we have so much attachment and we label everything under You, I, me and we are suffer from the that, if it for me and i we feel ok, but once it for other or you, you feel lost something..
how to overcome it, take out the label one by one, then you wont feel that lost or painful any more as it not belong to you anyway..
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When I read and looked at the question, all I saw was me, myself and I. It is actually quite bad for that person to think like that and not to mention the loneliness from the karma of being selfish. I don't blame those people as they behave like that due to how they were brought up and habituations.
It doesn't mean that you change 100% over night but change however you can. Trust me, the joy of helping people and seeing their expression are priceless!
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To be able to give, it is a blessing as it helps us to collect good karma. It is also meant that we are lucky as we are rich in something and that’s why we have the resources to give.
For me,
When I help a friend financially, I gain friendship and developed generosity.
When I help a colleague at work, I developed a person that will later support me on some of my work.
When I give some of my time to help a charity, I can develop compassion & generosity
When I have to take my neighbor to the hospital in the middle of the night, I learn to appreciate the healthy body that I have
When I lend my car to somebody, my dad fetches me to work and I have a good time talking to him along the journey.
I believe it is always depend on our attitude, how we see things and our perception towards life and everything around us. This will also determine our happiness. If we are generous, appreciative, compassion, in fact we gain more as we are a happier person, people will like us more and willing to do business or work with us and we can accomplish more things that we want to do. We and the people around us will be happier at the same time. Win-win! ;)
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Well it depends how we view it. If we help with the motivation of not expecting anything in return, it will be easy and you won't have the thoughts of loss instead you will feel happier and glad that you can help another person in need. When We focus on ourself when we give, the results will often be self cherishing It will lead to other negativity. There is always the expectation that we have when we want to help and give. It is that expectation that dictates how you feel when giving and helping others. Set the motivation right first before helping and it will eliminate that expectation.
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When you help others, it is definitely at our expenses. How to view that “expenses” depends on what we want, or our motivation.
Some help others because they want praise and recognition and become popular.
Some help others because they want others to help them later.
Some help others because they feel the need to help those in need at that moment, and they do not expect any return in words or in favour.
I am sure all of us here have fallen into all three categories at some point in time in our lives when we extend our helping hands. I think none of the motivation is wrong, helping is helping and is a good deed as the receiver has been benefitted one way or another.
But on a spiritual point of view, of course the best is to help others without any expectation of praise, or return in favour. When we are in the path of spirituality, best is we do more and expect less, then we will be acting closer to what Buddha will be doing, spontaneous in helping…..our human qualities will excel. Even when you don’t want praise or recognition to start with, you will be praised and recognised in the end.
Look at beautiful Mother Teresa, she spent her whole life dedicated at helping those no one would be close to, she is humble and she did not ask for recognition, nor praise, not any monetary in return, in the end she won the Nobel Peace price and was internationally recognised.
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It all depends on what is important to you in life. If money, sleep, comfort zone, career and living a meaningless life is what is important to you then by all means live that way. Then be prepared for the consequences as well. To not do anything to help others will bring us to a negative rebirth. So choose which path you want to head to. For most people, it's not easy to give money, our time, sleep up for someone in need. But knowing the dharma and the consequences, it would be much easier to do bit by bit daily. You don't have to give up your wealth or all your time to help someone at work, but help within means that still does not completely jeopardise your own work quality for example.
Heard of the more you give the more you get? It's never a lose lose situation here. In fact all wins. The person you helped and yourself will also benefit from helping others. The feeling and satisfaction from helping someone is much better than living life without any meaning and for yourself only.
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Giving is what we practice in Buddhism. We give for others to benefit.
Are we losing anything? Personally I don’t think so instead we gain so much from what we gave out.
Not attached to what we give is a spiritual gain, is a freedom. The freedom from chasing, from grasping, from worry for something that we can’t bring us to real happiness and of course next life.
Even though is on our expense we give out to help it has to be with correct motivation in order to make it as a great offering and generate merits.
Suffering for others beneficial is our Buddhist practice and is a great practice for compassion.