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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: DSFriend on August 25, 2011, 11:28:56 AM
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Have you ever thought of quitting your spiritual path or seen your dharma brothers and sisters quitting and abandoning the path?
Here are a few of the common reasons I have come across :
- it's too tough and i'm not good enough for it
- there's another path more suitable for me
- i love the worldly affairs too much
- it's not for me now...maybe later in my life
- i am stuck and there's nothing can be done about it
Recently I had a chat with a dharma brother who wanted to abandon the path. And I thought, this is not foreign to us, the practitioners on the path who are not attained yet. What have helped you to counter thoughts and feelings of quitting?
Perhaps your sharing and thoughts can help someone else visiting this forum who may be choosing between abandoning the path or abandoning the three poisons.
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There are reasons we create to abandon the path. If the reasons are because someone does not want to deal with their inner emotions and wish to give up, then the problem is going to persist no matter what they do or where they go and they know that. Whatever they persue secular or religious, they will eventually give up. The reasons they come up with to give up the Dharma is not the Dharma is too hard, but they do not want to improve, transform, evolve. They think it's easier to give up? Give up on what? The methods, paths and teachings to transform our minds to higher consciousness, altruism, realizations, happpiness and eventually enlightenment. Why would anyone want to give up on that? Why would anyone want to surrender such a precious path? Surrending such a path is pure selfishness. Because you can't help yourself let alone all sentient beings or others when you quit the methods to cultivate those qualities.
If the problem is with the Dharma, then there is no problem. The Dharma cannot create any problems.
I am not being negative or judgemental, but who would not want treatment for aids, cancer, stroke, paralysis? When you give up on your treatment, you make everyone around you and yourself suffer further. Similarily, when we give up on the Dharma, we create the causes to further solidify the very habits that make us wanna to quit our spiritual goals. Quitting is saying Buddha is wrong. There is no higher mind. No one has attained it. No one gets enlightened. Enlightenment exists for everyone else but myself so I give up. When feelings of giving up arise, then we should think carefully, what are we really giving up on? The path to more suffering or the path to less suffering.
I have come across people who give up, but unfortunately they do not become better than before they gave up. Giving up is such a loud cry for attention for some. The attention we seek should not be consolation, but having abandoned the causes for self pity and all the manifestations of bad habituations from further arising.
If you want to quit, then quit selfishness, miserliness, self centredness, laziness, self pity and bad habits. Quitting is fine. We should quit the right things. And that is not Dharma for sure.
Sorry to sound negative as I don't mean to be, but entertaining ideas of quitting Dharma practice reflects the mind who has not applied full methods into their daily lives. Therefore not getting results. You can't quit something you have not really put full effort into. I mean, you can't quit what you really have not started. Anyone starting and putting real efforts into the Dharma path will get results. Dharma is on the inside. And full methods of Dharma should be applied on the inside. If you apply the Dharma methods fully on the inside, thoughts of only quitting samsara will arise and never your practice as taught by the perfect Buddha. :)
We have to realize something and realize this now, DHARMA IS NOT HARD. We have to stop saying it's hard. We have to stop saying it creates difficulties in our lives. We create difficulties in our lives. Dharma is the best thing in our lives. Why so self destructive and extreme to remove the best thing from our lives. Happiness is from our mind. Unhappiness is from our mind. Our mind creates it all. And Dharma can show the mind how to create real lasting happiness. It's seemingly hard and it's convenient to blame Dharma. But Dharma is not the cause of our pain, but we are. Our habituations are pulling us down deeper and deeper into something we can't escape in the future. DHARMA IS NOT DIFFICULT because difficulty implies creating suffering and Dharma does not, did not and will not create pain, but not doing dharma creates pain. Because we quit the best method to eradicate our pain. We have to stop threatening to quit, or entertain ideas to quit, because if we wanted to quit we turn our backs on all that is good, all our friends in the Dharma who believed in us, we turn our backs on the Three Jewels, our protector and our teachers. We turn against all of them just so we don't endure difficulties anymore?? Does that sound right? Are they the ones giving us difficulties. You know, we were suffering way before we even heard about the Dharma.
Reality check time. Quit Dharma, we go back to suffering. Continue Dharma we still suffer but not forever. :)
No offense to anyone in what I have expressed above. I am not being holier than thou or putting anyone down. Just that quitting the Dharma means you quit on everything good for you. Why would you wanna do that? Love yourself. You deserve it. Love yourself and reward yourself by doing the Dharma. The blind turtle's head's in the yoke on the vast ocean, don't take your head out!
I really feel I can quit everything but the Dharma. it's not because I am so good. It's that I have taken a real long hard realistic look at my situation, the world around me and I know Dharma is my only salvation. I would rather die than give up Dharma. Death is just a transition, giving up Dharma is the end to all positive transitions. Never quit, Never entertain the idea and plant nasty seeds in your mind. Never give up. Never look for the easy way out. Absorb all the problems of others and just go straight ahead. BUDDHA CANNOT BE WRONG. We can be wrong. So just trust the Buddha which means really take refuge and surrender to change, work, effort, evolving and growing. It's not painful if we look at it for what it really is. ;)
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I think people think about quitting or quit because of ignorance. As thaimonk says - what are you quitting for? Will things be different in the non-Dharmic world? I can't imagine what life would be like if i didn't live without thinking of karma.
To quit Dharma would be like jumping out of the pan into the fire. So what is the point. There may be a sense of temporary relief because we can go back to our habituations of doing what we like, when we like and with whom we like and those are usually not positive activities (which is why they are not encouraged when we follow the Dharma path).
I like what you said about Dharma isn't hard and it's all about how we look at it. I read a book by Lama Zopa on transforming problems into happiness awhile back, and if i recall correctly, he mentioned something like that. If we label the problem as a problem, it immediately becomes one. This is also in tune with other secular self-development theories - like power of the subconscious mind - if we tell our mind we are happy, we become happy. Probably these self-development theories came from Buddhism to start with!
I love Thaimonk's post so much i have to post it on my facebook!!
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Just to add - i saw this quote "All the suffering in the world comes from seeking pleasure for oneself. All the happiness in the world comes from seeking pleasure for others." Shantideva
I think we have a mistaken view of selfishness. If we are truly selfish and wish to benefit ourselves, we would pursue Dharma solidly and without question. Unfortunately we have a skewed idea of what is selfish because the things we want to do doesn't benefit but lead us to pain and more suffering. Ironic really.
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Agree with thaimonk.
If we are a quitter….anywhere we go it's the same because we just always look for easy way out when we face problem. This problem so call is created by ourselves.
There is no places that have no problem because that is what we labeled. Since we have label it in such use the dharma that we learn to solve it.
Our main objective of doing dharma is to liberate ourselves from the worldly suffering. That is so obvious that quitting the dharma is just going back to suffer and more.
Of course during the journey we will face difficulty, but personally to me where in this world that you will not face difficulty? even for a child to learn to walk they will fall and feel pain or even bruise or bleed. Should he/she quit?…….
If we have benefited from the dharma and we know that is the right path that we will enjoy lasting happiness why give up?
Probably we have subconsciously set our focus towards ourself too much than others.
Don't waste what you have put in. If you have start your journey with Dharma move on. If you have not start now.
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Whoever wishes to quit should read and focus on Shantideva's exposition on attaining bodhicitta (Bodhisattvachavatara). This is the greatest exposition within the Mahayana which gives powerful reasoning and logic as to why we need to fortify ourselves against ourselves.
After doing a thorough study of this, one should engage in the 8 Verses of Thought Growth daily combined with serious Om Mani Peme Hung recitation doing tonglen. This practice combined with working hard for others continuously should take care of the sneaky self-centred mind trying to take control and trying to win again.
Quittng is the answer to nothing. Quitting is the antidote to happiness. Quitting is self respect's biggest enemy. Quitting is the key word for those who find samsara a pleasure grove. Quitting only makes us the biggest winner in our own self pity.
Never quit, just find antidotes. And if you always think of quitting, then all the more you shouldn't quit.
TK
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Thank you Thaimonk, TK, WisdomBeing and Tenzin K for good sharings,
I have been there and done that, sorry to say. Fortunate for me, I didn't go all the way with quitting the Dharma. I thought about it thousands of times but dare not act as there are just too many obvious examples of people who left and degenerated. After that, if I am to quit, too many people would be hurt. Well, if the person was to remain in the Dharma, he/she must be able to come to terms with the fact that distractions will become bigger and any spiritual practice would become meaningless and not to mention accepting the hurt that one will inflict on all Dharma brothers and sisters. Worse still, it might encourage others to leave the Dharma as well. No matter how disillusioned we are, we cannot wish that upon anyone and quitting is a surefire way to wish that upon our brothers and sisters. If I can quit, so can they.
I don't have antidotes but the contemplative practices posted by tk is very beneficial for such negative mindsets. Besides contemplation, sometimes it will help to find solace in something good we had achieved in Dharma or someone we have benefited. This sometimes works for me. If all else fails, just cry it out, punch the air or talk it out with someone we can trust.
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What a huge question. I think the full response is the whole of Buddhadharma. People who quit do so because it is their karma: out of delusion, being interfered with by harmful spirits, coming under the influence of bad friends, anger, attachment, laziness, wrong view...
Watching it happen can increase our own determination, enhancing our bodhichitta or seeds of bodhichitta. We can actively practice not abandoning any living being and make prayers and dedications for them to strengthen their faith. It happens all the time that people come and go. I think that if we continue to practice and improve this will inspire many people to come back again - but not always as the causes to abandon Dharma are strong in some people. In many ways it is the saddest thing to see happen, because without the wish to practice Dharma, the door to liberation remains shut and the door to the lower realms are wide open. My own wisdom is too weak to benefit most people at the moment, so all I can do is my best to improve my own qualities and realisations, and pray to the holy beings.
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I had never thought of quitting as i believe in "When the going gets tough, the tough gets going." However, I think that most people thought of quitting due to ignorance and laziness and not wanting to put in the effort to push oneself.
I thank Thaimonk for sharing such a contemplative post. Yes, DHARMA IS NOT HARD. It is our disillusioned mind that makes us think that Dharma is hard. When we put effort into dharma we can see results. And it is these results that makes us want to put in more and more effort. However, through this journey, we also come across set backs and disappointments but I believed that our practice should be worth more than those set backs and disappointments.
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Thank you Thaimonk for sharing the well explained post! I love it very much
Dharma is not hard, its our minds that make dharma is not easy. I belief that the more I practice dharma, will achieve permanent happiness and will also benefit others, just like TK shared below :
Quittng is the answer to nothing. Quitting is the antidote to happiness. Quitting is self respect's biggest enemy. Quitting is the key word for those who find samsara a pleasure grove. Quitting only makes us the biggest winner in our own self pity.
Never quit, just find antidotes. And if you always think of quitting, then all the more you shouldn't quit.
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Thank you guys. Some of the advice sting as I have thought of quitting before. I am just glad I never carried it through. Quitting is not an answer that a desperate practitioner is seeking but a quick fix solution to evade the real answer. Unfortunately, that person knows that intellectually but circumstances or lack of merits still compels him/her in that manner. People who quits the Dharma I have noticed is highly intelligent and very quick to pick up faults in others but hardly able to pick his/her own fault and even if he/she admits mistakes, it is to placate the other person.
Unfortunately for all of us, we can escape from everyone but we cannot escape our karma. Our karma will eventually catch up and by that time, ti would be too late. Its very sad. That is one of the fears that stops me in my tracks.
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Quitting is probably one of the greatest human mental poisons. People quit all the time in one way or another. May it be careers, relationships, even the Dharma. People who have the quitting habit have one common trait - they are constantly blaming everything and everyone else. They are masters of excuses and justifications. What they fail to see is the glaring fact that they are the common element in all the so-called "bad" situations.
Reflect. Quitters of relationships constantly complain about how the other person never fulfills their needs, the other person does not understand them, the other person is selfish...and the list goes on. People who quit and change jobs like changing clothes, constantly complain about the bosses and how much the bosses are demanding and unreasonable, they complain about colleagues who are not supportive, who play politics, etc... and the list continues... Quitters never see that colleagues change, bosses change and partners change, they are the common element.
When we quit we are actually quitting on ourselves. We do not give ourselves a chance to push ourselves to the next level of improvement. Think. Quitters are NEVER happy. Never content. Always complaining about the whole world. Very sad.
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When quitting does come to our mind, it could be due to various reasons. All the reasons that you can think of may or may not be valid. However, that is not really important. The core of it is we think of quitting because we do not want to deal with the challenges in that particular situation that we are in anymore. Maybe quitting will give us temporary relieve, but eventually it will come back to us again and we are back to square one. The problem we are facing is within our mind and we carry our mind wherever we go. Therefore, It make sense to face up to the problem and find a solution and solve it. Otherwise, even if we quit, we will find ourselves in the same situation again before long.
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Quitting or abandoning Dharma or the Path is a sure sign of surrendering to one's self-cherishing mind, one's ego.Thank you TK for your precise diagnosis of why a person quits and for prescribing the antidote , which is developing Bodhicitta.
Last weekend, I was called a hundred miles to the bedside of a friend from long ago, who was dying.My heart broke at sight of her lying on the bed, already bereft of speech and on drip. She cried when she saw me and seemed terribly upset. But what pained me were all the signs of her not letting go and her clinging to this life. Her eyes were dark with anger and fear. She'd been a highly successful and rich person and was living it up like a god in the gods' realm. I was told when cancer struck her (and it was already at the 4th stage when it was discovered), she refused to give up and sought all forms of treatment. It was only when treatment didn't help and she realized she was dying, that she turned from a confident cheerful person to an angry person, adamant against praying and any form of spirituality to cope with her end. How terrible is one's ego and self-grasping when(out of ignorance) one clings to it as though it were one's dearest friend, when in actuality it is one's deadliest enemy.
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Can you imagine if all the Shugden practitioner quit because of the ban and all the pressure from the TCA and the Tibetan community? We always let our ego wins. We are so spoiled, many of us when a little bit of difficulty arises, we complaint to the whole world that life is bad and we want to quit to show that we are right, we cannot be putted down.....we keep feeding our ego.
In fact winner like to inconvenient themselves, look for trouble to solve, from there they move up and be better just like those Lama and Guru who keeping Dorje Shugden as the main practice and keep building and expanding the monastery, have huge statues made in Tibet, Shugden stupa etc.....
Just like what tk told us, think of other more than ourselves.
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quitting show we are give up and do not want to continue with whatever we are doing.
quitting can be good and bad depend of what is our objective ie quit smoke is good, quitting from the practice which we received from our teacher is bad as we break our promise.
we have to see why we are quit, just simply cant take it and just want to run away or we think we have other things which is better to do, many time we have wrong thought and wrong adjustment.
quitting in spiritual practice, When we have guru and guru assigned to do something and whatever reason we quit halfway, do not want to continue or just run way. We create a karma to be far away from the guru as we have broken a promise to our guru and we wont achieve in any practice if we wont change as if we can quit from spiritual path mean we will quit with other activities we doing as well as it come from our habitual.
people who always quit will never success or achieve in their gold/life as they easily to give up when come across with problem.
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Quitting is something that we do all the time in many aspects of our life. Which is why there is a small percentage of the population who are successful and the rest not. When we study the qualities of successful people in the secular world and spiritual world, there are many common traits. Commitment and perseverance are top of the list.
Of course there will be huge obstacles and do things out of our comfort zone. But if we want something bad enough, we'd go for it no matter what. In our spiritual path, transformation of our mind is tough and it takes a huge amount of effort. This is because we have a strong self cherishing mind.
So if we truly understand that benefits of our spiritual practice, when the going gets tough, the tough gets going. There's really no room for quitting.
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My antidote is really simple.
I look at my life before dharma and after dharma. Spiritual path is tough, but honestly so is samsara!
Whenever I think about quitting, I look back at my life and remembering that makes me rethink my thoughts!
Leaving dharma creates the causes to not meeting the dharma again in the future. I also heard that leaving dharma is worst than killing 1000 arhats. Remembering, reflecting and cultivating gratefulness helps when situation as such arises.
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Seriously, would Dorje Shugden quit?
There must be a reason why we respect and practice him.
If we quit we contradict everything we have learned, everything, and we put down the Buddha's teachings lower than whatever it is we are going to.
Could a job, a holiday, a career, food, sex and I don't know what be more valuable than any spiritual teaching?
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I think in everything we do as a team of many people, we are bound to see one or more members quit. I think this is a very natural phenomena. The reason for the person quitting will only be known to the quitter himself. I think its best to let the person leave and if he looks back and feels he has missed out on something good, perhaps he may return as a better player in the team. Perhaps he may return to a position he is more suitable for.
In my opinion, when some one quits, its more important that the team focuses on how to fill up the space that has been left empty rather than on the quitter. The quitter has quit because of his karma and the team will have to adjust to the flow of that karma. Maybe when the team moves forward, the quitter might return. It is then that the team will be put to the test to receive him back. :-\
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Whoever wishes to quit should read and focus on Shantideva's exposition on attaining bodhicitta (Bodhisattvachavatara). This is the greatest exposition within the Mahayana which gives powerful reasoning and logic as to why we need to fortify ourselves against ourselves.
After doing a thorough study of this, one should engage in the 8 Verses of Thought Growth daily combined with serious Om Mani Peme Hung recitation doing tonglen. This practice combined with working hard for others continuously should take care of the sneaky self-centred mind trying to take control and trying to win again.
Quittng is the answer to nothing. Quitting is the antidote to happiness. Quitting is self respect's biggest enemy. Quitting is the key word for those who find samsara a pleasure grove. Quitting only makes us the biggest winner in our own self pity.
Never quit, just find antidotes. And if you always think of quitting, then all the more you shouldn't quit.
TK
I fully agree with TK's comments. Quitting the dharma is really not the answer. I have entertained quitting many times when practising the dharma becomes very tough and paralysing. I realised that quitting will not solve the problem because the problem lies within myself. So wherever I run to, I will have to face similar problems again.
The only solution is continue practising the dharma because along the way, the solutions will be realised.
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Thank you everyone for such wonderful explanations. In this life and in all lives to come, the one thing I will NEVER quit is Dharma!
All of us have problems before we met the Dharma! With Dharma, it is easier for us to understand why things happen the way they do. Therefore, we should be better than we were and realize the beauty of Dharma. Not RUN away from the truth! How can Dharma make us more miserable than we were! I feel very sad for those people I know that left Dharma for samsara. May they have the merits to have Dharma again!
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One chooses to quit because they lack understanding and knowledge.
I quote a phrase from a book:
Our lack of understanding is the root of our suffering and is responsible for our troubles.
Nothing hard to understand from that phrase. It shows very clearly that from lack of understanding is where we suffer and create problems for ourselves. If we truly understand there's no use of pursuing worldly concerns, then automatically we will never wish to quit but instead renunciate and further develop bodhicitta with the wish to do more for others at the lowest level.
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Following the dharma can either be hard or easy, it depends on the way you look at it. Also it depends on the way you apply it. If you believe that it is the way to be helped, to relieve your suffering, and help others, then it can be easier for you if you are motivated. On the other hand, it isn't called samsara for no reason. Samsara is like a pit with claws, once you are in, it is so so hard to come out. Sometimes it is the work that pushes people away, sometimes it is the people, but if you look deeper the only thing pushing you away is yourself.
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Following the dharma can either be hard or easy, it depends on the way you look at it. Also it depends on the way you apply it. If you believe that it is the way to be helped, to relieve your suffering, and help others, then it can be easier for you if you are motivated. On the other hand, it isn't called samsara for no reason. Samsara is like a pit with claws, once you are in, it is so so hard to come out. Sometimes it is the work that pushes people away, sometimes it is the people, but if you look deeper the only thing pushing you away is yourself.
It is very true what you said here jeremyg.....lets understand the reasons why people quits in the first place and then see what "antiniodes we can apply.
People quits because :
1) They lack the knowledge of how to do the job.
2) They know how to do it but the job takes too much of a challenge, time and effort.
3) They dont like to work with some people.
4) They dont like the job.
It all boils down to laziness and attachment to our comfort zone.
The antidodes could be a shift in how we think. This could start off with a bit of an ego trip, but in time, it will help us to elimanate our attachement to comfort zone and laziness. We dont quit and pursue the task even if we have to learn the skill and stay up late to accomplish it, we want to prove to the people who think we can't do it, wrong (yes, ego trip here)
When we succeed to do it, obviously we feel good and then we realise that actually we can basically do anything provided we dont "quit" in the first place. If what we accomplish is of a higher purpose, like helping or benefitting others, it will make us realise our individual potential is greater than what we think.
Humility should arise (lowering the ago)when we contemplate that if many of us do the same, then the potential and influence would be multiple.
In a spiritual context, we all know we should not quit, just bend and find other ways around the situation.
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Thank you everyone for such wonderful explanations. In this life and in all lives to come, the one thing I will NEVER quit is Dharma!
All of us have problems before we met the Dharma! With Dharma, it is easier for us to understand why things happen the way they do. Therefore, we should be better than we were and realize the beauty of Dharma. Not RUN away from the truth! How can Dharma make us more miserable than we were! I feel very sad for those people I know that left Dharma for samsara. May they have the merits to have Dharma again!
Have you heard of this quote: Rolling stone gathers no moss. If we are always quitting when we are unhappy about something, cant get along with someone in the office or school, quitting a marriage, etc, we are actually running away from ourself because the problem is OURSELF, not the other party. At the end of the day, where else can we run to?? Because the problem is not them, but us. Worse still, quitting a practice that has been given by one's Lama! Has anyone heard of Dorje Shugden quitting on us??? Why do you think he has a curved wisdom sword??? He is constantly showing us the right path using skillful means going 'this way and that way'. He never quit on us. So never ever quit on him.
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First we must pinpoint what are the real reason we gave to ourselves by letting this thought of quitting. What are we quitting exactly? Is it because of our ego and dare not to face the truth which lead us to quit? How many times can you escape if you want to become somebody useful? That's a saying "No pain, no gain". Perhaps we should contemplate and check ourselves on how many times already did we have this urge of doing so. What have we done and achieved so far is a very good report card reflecting us. Dharma and karma do exist no matter how we try not to acknowledge it. We must always have faith and trust the teachings of the Buddha, how can the Buddha be wrong? One cannot be always there and be stagnant by just be in our comfort zone which we are familiar with, eventually will lead us to became someone who is unhappy and dissatisfied always. Even Lord Buddha faces a lot of obstacles Himself before He became enlighten. So we must not let this negative behavior of us in controlled.
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We are so used to quitting, when we do not like, we just quit and find something else that we think will give us happiness. How we perceive happiness is when we do not have difficulties or sufferings. This is the wrong views we have hold since we were born.
To practice spirituality is about confronting our bad habituations and qualities, to correct them and develop positive traits. The process of confronting our bad habituation is not an easy journey, we have to look into ourselves, our ugly self. To acknowledge we are not perfect and do something about it to change our behaviour. No one likes to go out from our comfort zone, cos we become uncomfortable. Since our wrong view says happiness is when we are comfortable, we will tend to give up. Therefore, it is very important to understand the ultimate reason why we want to engage in spiritual practice.
Spiritual practice completely blows my mind away, it is not just about being nice to people but being cruel to our personality flaws. Always remember why we engage in spiritual practice, this will help us to stay on the path. Don't let "quit" rules our lives anymore.
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Quitting is the taking the easiest way out. I'm sure many of us have quit one way or another is whatever we were doing be it secular or spiritual. Most people quit not because they could not cope with what they do but because they cannot get along with the person they deal with directly or had a fall out with. That is why we must practice the dharma and by practicing the dharma right there and then instead of feeding oneself with negativity. Practice the 8 versus of mind transformation is the sure way of not quitting.
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To quit is to give up, walk away, turn your back on a situation that you could not find a solution for. It is so easy to quit, for it just takes a second to utter it and that is the end.
What happens to the people who were with you in the situation, who also could not find a solution to the matter/problem. Do you just let it be, leave them high and dry? Where is your responsibility? Do you not owe it to them and to yourself to see things through to the end?
I find quitting is the loser's answer to laziness as well, Dharma or no dharma.
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quitting not the solution for anything as it doesn't help to solve the problems, but to hide the problem or run away from problem which actually we run from one problem to another problem as it come from our habitual.
People who always quit will never success or achieve in anything in their life because they never put effort into solve the problem when arise and find the solution for it, their life will be just a circle of trying of something then quit and start new thing and quit again.
I hope that those people will realize that the problem is come from themselves and stop run away as we never ever run away from ourselves.
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Quitting is not uncommon in spiritual centers around the world, people change their mind! They are too attached to the worldly 'enjoyment', they claim they are not ready! All these are valid as far as the individuals (who closed to quit) are concern.
What bothers me is the way we treat our dharma brothers and sisters who shows signs of quitting. I have seen many people marginalise those who are 'branded' as quitters and instead of giving them mental support and cousin selling, they give them hard time - hence literally push them out of the doors!! How sad and I am sure this is not part of Buddha's teaching.
The should be a balance between how much time and effort eae should spend on our dharma brother n sister s who wanted to quit, help them solve their issues and stay in dharma. And when too much time and effort had been spent with no possitive results, we should just gracefully let them do whatever they wish. We should then concentrate our effort onto more 'deserving' individuals.
For those who had made decision to quit. They are not our enemies, we should still bea compassionate to then and not bad mouth them. Who knows our paths may crossed soon?!
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When you give up, you quit. You quit on yourself, and most importantly, you quit on trying. Contrary to what you think, you ain't going to find the real exit just by quitting..if it was that easy, everyone would've quit.
What is quitting? Quitting is giving in to your comforts, quitting is giving in to your laziness, your attachments, and most importantly, giving up on respect, integrity and will. Why do we quit, and choose the easy way out? Because it is easier than pushing ourselves. In our minds, it is easier to not do anything and expect everything to fall on our laps in a silver platter, instead of pushing ourselves towards the goal (whatever your goal may be). If succeeding was so easy, everyone would've achieved success by now.
Pertaining to one's spiritual development, quitting is a result of not wanting to transform, change and overcome ourselves. When we quit learning the Dharma, or any religion in fact, we are indirectly saying that we know more than the essence of the teachings. We cannot let go our attachment to self, and focus on helping others and transforming our minds. When we have to give, we'd rather run. But when receiving, we fool ourselves thinking that we can give just as much or more. What is the purpose of life, if all we do is just quit, run and hide. Life in itself is a continuous game..how are you going to find the exit? By learning and doing something about it to actually reach that point..not by being flippant and quitting. And what is that path to bring you to the exit? - Dharma. If you keep quitting, you'll never find your way out of the trappings you created for yourself.
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Many people quit in many ways be it with our without dharma. Why? Many quit due to many reasons which are endless. No point to dwell on these negative points. One should think more and ask themselves what is it that one wants out of it..what is the motivation or intention when one embarks on the tasks or in this case spiritual path. What more when one knows the truth and due to own ego, one is not happy, not according to their expectations and what they want...they blame it on dharma, others and never themselves and they QUIT...due to limited understanding and knowledge, ignorance, laziness and not wanting to put in much effort to push themselves.
How ignorant they are should they quit DHARMA. Dharma is never hard. It is we ourselves make it hard not wanting to transform for the better where the ultimate happiness is in store at the end of it. How else to get that ultimate happiness if we do not want to put in the EFFORT and APPLICATION! Only when we put in effort and application, we WILL see results. Let's put dharma aside for now, which self made successful billionaires (not from inheritance) became rich and successful without putting in effort, sacrifices and hardwork? In the course of the journey to becoming successful or rich, many disappointments and setbacks would arise. But with tenacity, persistence, acceptance and letting go, one will SUCCEED! Likewise for dharma to better oneself towards the ultimate happiness and peace.
Lastly, what else are we looking for? More sufferings or ultimate happiness?
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I like this from Thaimonk:
"We have to realize something and realize this now, DHARMA IS NOT HARD. We have to stop saying it's hard. We have to stop saying it creates difficulties in our lives. We create difficulties in our lives. Dharma is the best thing in our lives. Why so self destructive and extreme to remove the best thing from our lives. Happiness is from our mind. Unhappiness is from our mind. Our mind creates it all."
Quitters are normally those who feel extremely insecure, irresponsible, low self-esteem, self-destructive, lack of determination and these people are actually loser. When they cannot get solution to resolve the problem, be it relationships, work, family or friends, then they run away from responsibility, hide in their comfort zone and let others to solve it or even pray to God and wish He can actually use his magic wand to dissolve their problem.
Sometimes our mind is just so deluded by worldly concerns or pleasure and we forget the purpose we came to Dharma in the first place. When we are on the path of pursuing Dharma, along the way we sure face obstacles that will pull us away from good things. We have to learn up and understand well the real meaning of practicing Dharma. To obtain happiness is not just pray for it, but transform yourself and eventually you will get it. Dharma is the only best thing you must have full faith in it. Dharma never run away from you, but you run away from Dharma.
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People quit everyday,in huge proportions.CEO quits leading, Althletes quit working out.Sales people quit selling,couples quit their marriages.Some quit their diet,exercise or even smoking.Quitting is a most common thing to do in life.Dharma can change people's view on quitting as Buddha's teachings makes them realised the truth and the value of Dharma.Without religious values ,worldly knowledge can lead to man's downfall and destruction.Never quit Dharma as it can bring maximum benefit and happiness for mankind.
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I've always wondered what will happen to those who quit the Dharma after taking refuge. Or those who quit after taking the Bodhisattva vows. What kind of karma awaits them? In "The words of My Perfect Teacher", Patrul Rinpoche says "Anyone who, having entered the Basic Vehicle, breaks his vows and commitment to bodhicitta, has nowhere else to go but the lower realms. He will not escape from states where there is no opportunity to practise the Dharma. Anyone who, having entered the Secret Mantra Vehicle, breaks his samaya commitments to his teacher and spiritual brothers and sisters, will bring about his own ruin and theirs, destroying any prospect of accomplishments."
I feel very sad when the people who quit are the very ones who brought me into the Dharma and who encouraged me to practice in the first place. It is very hard for me to understand this.
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I've always wondered what will happen to those who quit the Dharma after taking refuge. Or those who quit after taking the Bodhisattva vows. What kind of karma awaits them? In "The words of My Perfect Teacher", Patrul Rinpoche says "Anyone who, having entered the Basic Vehicle, breaks his vows and commitment to bodhicitta, has nowhere else to go but the lower realms. He will not escape from states where there is no opportunity to practise the Dharma. Anyone who, having entered the Secret Mantra Vehicle, breaks his samaya commitments to his teacher and spiritual brothers and sisters, will bring about his own ruin and theirs, destroying any prospect of accomplishments."
I feel very sad when the people who quit are the very ones who brought me into the Dharma and who encouraged me to practice in the first place. It is very hard for me to understand this.
It takes a lot of merits for us to be able to stay in a Dharma centre and receive any teaching. After receiving this teaching and we didn’t apply it in our daily life, it is no different than just a theory. When there is no hard work putting on it, eventually we are creating a karma for us to leave Dharma, and when that happens, our mind will closed up and whatever positive things will become negative when come to us. With such mind, 3 lower realms are waiting for us.
But fortunately he brought u in Dharma, so, every effort u put in Dharma will generate some sort of merits for him. By not able to do anything to help, doing the Dharma work well, and dedicate these merits to him, so that the Dharma seed in him will blossom sooner.
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There is always a possibility for practitioners to quit or to contemplate quitting whether it is on a secular or spiritual matter. The main cause of quitting is because at the outset, practitioners did not have clear understanding of the objective or purpose of spiritual practice and what the spiritual journey entails.
The journey to enlightenment is not easy. We definitely need the support of Guru and the Three Jewels in order to be on the right track. We need the moral support of our Dharma brothers and sisters. It is difficult to practise alone unless we are qualified to practise like a yogi or an ascetic forest monk or nun.
In a very summarised form, we must practise the 6 perfections of giving, patience, moral discipline, effort, concentration, and wisdom. Have we been giving enough since we have received so much from Guru, Buddha, Dharma and Sangha? It took us countless past lives to be what we are now. Of course we got to be very patient to rid ourselves of all the impurities in our mind! It could take us many future lifetimes before we could achieve the results we longed for. We must practise by upholding our vows and commitments; they are designed to guide and help us. We definitely have to put in lots of efforts to fight against our strong delusions which control us for so very long. Be focused and not be distracted by little failures! Finally wisdom is what we want. Without realizing moral discipline, we can’t develop concentration. Without concentration, we cannot develop wisdom. Without wisdom, we won’t realize the importance of moral discipline and concentration. The Three Higher Trainings are interdependent. The Three Higher Trainings on moral disciple, concentration and wisdom is part of the 6 Perfections.
Practitioners should think twice or thrice before considering quitting. Quitting makes all the efforts from the beginning a waste of time. Quitting will do more harm than good to practitioners because they are creating the cause to fail further. They are also creating the cause not to meet Dharma again! That is a very unfortunate thing to do when we are gifted with a precious human life and the golden opportunity to practise Dharma.
Have the quitters thought about why they have to quit? Maybe they need to replenish their merits in order to sustain their spiritual practice. No problem is unsolvable; problems are impermanent! There are many more reasons to not quit ...
There were countless Buddhas in the past. There are countless Buddhas at the present. And there will be countless Buddhas in the future. It is guaranteed that all sentient beings can become Buddhas because we have the potential to be Buddhas. Hence, just do it!
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Quitting is the easiest way to escape. You don't like your boss, you quit your job. You don't like your spouse, you quit your marriage. You find exams too tough, you quit school. You can't get along with your siblings, you quit (renounce your relationship with them). Your spiritual guide, in your opinion, is too tough on you so you quit your dharma practice. And the list goes on and on. And this is the story of some people's lives. Then you take a good look at where they are and where some people who never quits are. Each time they fall, they get up immediately and battles on to make an improvement. And you ask yourself, "who do you respect more?". If your answer is The Quiters, may I recommend you to read the posts on WILL WE HAVE REGRETS AND MORE REGRETS http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1901.0. (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1901.0.)
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I used to be quitting in my previous years, everytime when I met difficulties, I’ll quit, when I have problem with boss, I quit. I keep thinking after quitting I might get a better job and better working environment, between colleague and boss will work like a family, stay harmony and no back biting. But then, one after another, I still face the same problem.
Until when I started to know bit of Dharma, when I started to understand more, then only I realize that this is my karma, as long as my karma of this is not exhausted yet, I will still face it no matter where I run, and it will become worsen if this karma were to drag longer, the karma will come back bigger.
So, face it, overcome it and settle it, if not, it will be forever quitting.
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We all face obstacles in pursuing our goals, whether they’re professional or personal.
We think we’re on the right track but realize we’ve chosen the wrong approach. We’re enthusiastic and hard-working, but our support system disintegrates when we need them the most. We’re just about to make significant progress when we run out of time or funding.
Tenacious as we may be, we all have our breaking points—that moment when the potential rewards stop justifying the effort. Usually that’s the hump that separates your best shot and your best reality.
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Quitting is not uncommon in spiritual centers around the world, people change their mind! They are too attached to the worldly 'enjoyment', they claim they are not ready! All these are valid as far as the individuals (who closed to quit) are concern.
What bothers me is the way we treat our dharma brothers and sisters who shows signs of quitting. I have seen many people marginalise those who are 'branded' as quitters and instead of giving them mental support and cousin selling, they give them hard time - hence literally push them out of the doors!! How sad and I am sure this is not part of Buddha's teaching.
The should be a balance between how much time and effort eae should spend on our dharma brother n sister s who wanted to quit, help them solve their issues and stay in dharma. And when too much time and effort had been spent with no possitive results, we should just gracefully let them do whatever they wish. We should then concentrate our effort onto more 'deserving' individuals.
For those who had made decision to quit. They are not our enemies, we should still bea compassionate to then and not bad mouth them. Who knows our paths may crossed soon?!
If we can help someone on to the path, stay on the path and grow is the most rewarding experience. Rewarding doesn't mean that the experience is a breeze but often times, we get the most satisfaction when we put in our heart and soul.
If we truly care for someone, then if we see our friend quitting, then what should drive us to reach out is because we don't want them to get into deeper trouble and problems. I suppose, sometimes just like a caring mother, out of a sense of urgency, people react in a "hard" way, hoping that this will act as a wake up call.
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I agree that it’s not uncommon for people to quit from their Dharma centre and Dharma work, because maybe it wasn't as easy as they thought. From my observation and having listened to the quite a number of nice, normal everyday people, Dharma work, is something they do because they "feel' they are doing something good for the society. This in a way is true, but Dharma really goes beyond that.
The journey in the Dharma becomes harder and tougher each day as we slowly and painfully remove our past negative imprints through our practice. But when the impurities in our mind are slowly being removed, we start to see things more clearly. The goal is to achieve REAL HAPPINESS.
Samsara on the other hand, is a lot easier to fall back on, as it is the familiar, a don’t need to change, easy, non action, comfortable, fun place to be. It is so beautiful and seductive. It is a place full of TEMPORAL HAPPINESS. Be tempted and be prepared to pay the price dearly.
When the thought of quitting arises in our mind, we should quickly remind ourselves the motivation that brought us to where we are. We wanted the Dharma so we ourselves can improve and become a better person, we wanted to work for the Dharma, for the benefit of others, well, if we do not face up to the challenge and improve ourselves when situation arises, then how can we help others? When we ourselves are so weak? How when we get stuck? Ask for advice and help from our Dharma brothers and sisters! If they refuse to, then we should check, have we been LAZY and always RELY, DEPEND and WAIT for others to help do our work for us? Have we been RESPONSIBLE? Always check into ourselves when things get tough. Do not blame others and the situation. It is all in our own MIND.
Dharma is always choosing the harder path.
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Thank you thaimonk and tk for your advice on countering our very dangerous thoughts of quitting dharma. You have enforced the fact that quitters do not get anywhere. I admit that I have thought of quitting at some point of my practice. I reckon it was due to my laziness and delusions that lead me to wanting to quit. After reading an article on how difficult it was to be born as a human who can practice dharma and eventually be free of suffering, I realized it would be real foolish to quit. May I be strong to overcome any thoughts of quitting with all these inspirational articles.
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Personally, i do not believe in quitting the Dharma and I am well aware of all the challenges that taking the path of Dharma has. It has to do more with self created obstacles, wrong perceptions and negative habituations that have been accumulated for many lifetimes. To overcome so much negativities, it is not going to be an easy or straightforward journey. Some people who are not used to difficulties may give up, or if the Dharma practice touched a sensitive place in their hearts and minds and remind them of something that they do not wish to be reminded. Definitely a difficult journey, but to not go through it is more difficult in the long run as there will be more suffering, pain and regret.
To me, to stop myself from quitting, I question myself constantly and constantly align my motivation so that i am not here to gain some sort of company or some sense of belonging or to get something out of my Lama and Dharma center, apart from the Dharma as people usually quit if they have ulterior motive to join the Dharma. Whenever i get upset when someone else criticize me or when i feel helpless, i question myself again why am i upset and realize that its just a misaligned motivation until my mind becomes stable and determined to stay to Dharma no matter what happens or no matter how painful things or situations turn out to be. That is how i kind of remove or challenge my thoughts of quitting.
If i do know someone in my Dharma community who wants to quit, I do hear them out as there is always a reason to trigger people to quit. sometimes it could be an imaginary problem, a misunderstanding of sorts, or it could be that the person has attitude problems and then explain to them and encourage them to not give up and give things another chance. I have seen and heard of people berating people who want to quit, and its not exactly a kind thing to do. Advice, support and care should be given to those who need it and wrathful action also has its place in such situations at the same time.
Some people quit the Dharma because their negative karma stacked up to the point where it cuts them off from Dharma so that they dont create more negative karma. When those leave, it would kinda feel natural in some way, but at least, they have the imprints and they might rejoin Dharma again when the conditions are right.
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Personally, i do not believe in quitting the Dharma and I am well aware of all the challenges that taking the path of Dharma has. It has to do more with self created obstacles, wrong perceptions and negative habituations that have been accumulated for many lifetimes. To overcome so much negativities, it is not going to be an easy or straightforward journey. Some people who are not used to difficulties may give up, or if the Dharma practice touched a sensitive place in their hearts and minds and remind them of something that they do not wish to be reminded. Definitely a difficult journey, but to not go through it is more difficult in the long run as there will be more suffering, pain and regret.
To me, to stop myself from quitting, I question myself constantly and constantly align my motivation so that i am not here to gain some sort of company or some sense of belonging or to get something out of my Lama and Dharma center, apart from the Dharma as people usually quit if they have ulterior motive to join the Dharma. Whenever i get upset when someone else criticize me or when i feel helpless, i question myself again why am i upset and realize that its just a misaligned motivation until my mind becomes stable and determined to stay to Dharma no matter what happens or no matter how painful things or situations turn out to be. That is how i kind of remove or challenge my thoughts of quitting.
If i do know someone in my Dharma community who wants to quit, I do hear them out as there is always a reason to trigger people to quit. sometimes it could be an imaginary problem, a misunderstanding of sorts, or it could be that the person has attitude problems and then explain to them and encourage them to not give up and give things another chance. I have seen and heard of people berating people who want to quit, and its not exactly a kind thing to do. Advice, support and care should be given to those who need it and wrathful action also has its place in such situations at the same time.
Some people quit the Dharma because their negative karma stacked up to the point where it cuts them off from Dharma so that they dont create more negative karma. When those leave, it would kinda feel natural in some way, but at least, they have the imprints and they might rejoin Dharma again when the conditions are right.
To my opinion, why so many people wanted to quit Dharma is because Dharma has showed them the truth, and unfortunately the truth is just exactly going against what we used to practice since young age. That’s why people find it very difficult, as they are not used to it.
For example:
Whenever we have problem, we always pointed our finger out and claim that this must be someone’s fault, because of that person, that’s why I’m in this difficult situation. And when we are happy, we claimed that because we love ourselves, we treat ourselves well, that’s why we feel happiness. But without realizing that the ‘happiness’ that we claimed is very fragile, it come and go very fast. Then we continue to chase after it again, we have been so used to it until we almost forgot what we really want in life.
Dharma teaching is right opposite of our practice, when we have difficulties, it is no one’s fault but ours, we are the one that created this situation, and happiness is not by satisfying ourselves to gain, in fact, we find happiness through helping others, and that kind of happiness is long lasting, because by helping someone to overcome their difficulties, literally we ‘saved’ someone, that kind of happiness is un-describable. I’m pretty sure most of you here has been through this.
So we should discard our old time practice and learn to serve others, with this, happiness will not be far from us already. When we accepted the truth and practicing it, we won’t have the thought of quitting already, because Dharma is already in us.
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Personally, i do not believe in quitting the Dharma and I am well aware of all the challenges that taking the path of Dharma has. It has to do more with self created obstacles, wrong perceptions and negative habituations that have been accumulated for many lifetimes. To overcome so much negativities, it is not going to be an easy or straightforward journey. Some people who are not used to difficulties may give up, or if the Dharma practice touched a sensitive place in their hearts and minds and remind them of something that they do not wish to be reminded. Definitely a difficult journey, but to not go through it is more difficult in the long run as there will be more suffering, pain and regret.
To me, to stop myself from quitting, I question myself constantly and constantly align my motivation so that i am not here to gain some sort of company or some sense of belonging or to get something out of my Lama and Dharma center, apart from the Dharma as people usually quit if they have ulterior motive to join the Dharma. Whenever i get upset when someone else criticize me or when i feel helpless, i question myself again why am i upset and realize that its just a misaligned motivation until my mind becomes stable and determined to stay to Dharma no matter what happens or no matter how painful things or situations turn out to be. That is how i kind of remove or challenge my thoughts of quitting.
If i do know someone in my Dharma community who wants to quit, I do hear them out as there is always a reason to trigger people to quit. sometimes it could be an imaginary problem, a misunderstanding of sorts, or it could be that the person has attitude problems and then explain to them and encourage them to not give up and give things another chance. I have seen and heard of people berating people who want to quit, and its not exactly a kind thing to do. Advice, support and care should be given to those who need it and wrathful action also has its place in such situations at the same time.
Some people quit the Dharma because their negative karma stacked up to the point where it cuts them off from Dharma so that they dont create more negative karma. When those leave, it would kinda feel natural in some way, but at least, they have the imprints and they might rejoin Dharma again when the conditions are right.
To my opinion, why so many people wanted to quit Dharma is because Dharma has showed them the truth, and unfortunately the truth is just exactly going against what we used to practice since young age. That’s why people find it very difficult, as they are not used to it.
For example:
Whenever we have problem, we always pointed our finger out and claim that this must be someone’s fault, because of that person, that’s why I’m in this difficult situation. And when we are happy, we claimed that because we love ourselves, we treat ourselves well, that’s why we feel happiness. But without realizing that the ‘happiness’ that we claimed is very fragile, it come and go very fast. Then we continue to chase after it again, we have been so used to it until we almost forgot what we really want in life.
Dharma teaching is right opposite of our practice, when we have difficulties, it is no one’s fault but ours, we are the one that created this situation, and happiness is not by satisfying ourselves to gain, in fact, we find happiness through helping others, and that kind of happiness is long lasting, because by helping someone to overcome their difficulties, literally we ‘saved’ someone, that kind of happiness is un-describable. I’m pretty sure most of you here has been through this.
So we should discard our old time practice and learn to serve others, with this, happiness will not be far from us already. When we accepted the truth and practicing it, we won’t have the thought of quitting already, because Dharma is already in us.
That could be one factor out of the many. There are also may other factors that can cause someone to quit the Dharma, for example like an unsupportive community, or if that person feels left out, or that person suffers from mental issues that cause them to perceive his or her community as harmful. It could also be that they joined the Dharma for ulterior motives, and when those motives are not met, they leave the center and never return, or give up Buddhism altogether. It is not exactly a straightforward situation and neither will it have a straightforward solution. In any case, for whatever reason these people leave the Dharma, it basically means that their karma and affinity has run out and they did not renew it or were unable to renew it due to them being in the Dharma for the wrong reasons. Some people run out of energy or drive to do the Dharma further because nothing can motivate or fuel them anymore but this can be easily traced back to incorrect motivations.
Some people view the Dharma as a quick fix or quick solution to their problems. Some people use it to cover their insecurities, while some others use it as a cover for their inadequacies and their lack of purpose and goals in life. When Dharma starts to push them to face their own issues, because the Dharma is about the truth and getting to the bottom of things, they tend to get disillusioned by the Dharma and turn their backs on Dharma. Therefore, to prevent ourselves from running away or "giving up", we need to always check our motivations. Our motivations for Dharma can be traced 3 main types:
1. Proper Motivation: It depends on each individual. Normally divide into three different kinds of motivation. i.e.
A: Least motivation.
One can generate motivation just to be able to be reborn into another fortunate rebirth so that one can continue our practice in our next life. Because if we fall into an unfortunate rebirth like Hell, Hungry Ghost and Animal life then we have no way to practice, but instead we have to suffer more and more. Therefore with this concern if you Practice of Dharma with this motivation is known as least motivation.
B: Medium Motivation.
Even if I am born in human rebirth or higher like Demi God, and God realm, I still have to face all kind of suffering such as birth, aging sickness and death. These are the major forms of suffering which I cannot escape from cyclic existence of samsara. Wherever I may be born I am forced to be born in Samsara by the force of my own negative karmic actions. Therefore, I must come out of cyclic existence of Samsara and must achieve Nirvana or Self Realization, so that I don't have to be born with the force of my negative karmic action. Practice of Dharma with this motivation is known as Medium Motivation.
C: Highest Motivation.
Just achieving Nirvana or Self Realization for myself alone is not enough as all the mother sentient beings still remain in Samsara. I just cannot be a selfish Dharma practitioner. Therefore, I must practice Dharma to free all the mother sentient beings from their suffering and achieve ultimate happiness. Generate Bodhicitta or Mind of Enlightenment for the welfare of all mother sentient beings and practice dharma with this motivation is known as Highest motivation.
The Highest Motivation had two divisions:
(1) Causal Perfection Vehicle and Resultant Tantric Vehicle.
In your Dharma practice if your motivation is any one of these three then your practice is true Dharma practice, though the first two Small/Least Motivation and Medium Motivation are for Hinayana Vehicle.
If your concern of practicing Dharma is only for the achievement for this current life, then your practice is call Worldly Dharma. That means it is not true Dharma at all. Therefore make sure when you generate Motivation it must be at least any of these three but better still, strive with the Highest Motivation.
Which motivation we have will determine how much effort we will put in the Dharma, and how long will we stay.