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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: Positive Change on August 12, 2011, 10:35:36 AM
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It is strange how we are often so eager or delighted even, to point out someone else's mistakes or shortcomings when we actually have made similar if not worse mistakes or shortcomings?
Why this is so? Well very simple... how can we recognise something for what it is if we not know it first hand! For example, if we see someone overtly angersome, we recognise those similar emotions like someone pointing a mirror to our face and hence we "react" to it. Or if we find someone sneaky and we recognise it immediately because we have actually done the same previously...
Sure we try to convince ourselves we are better than others but if we truly look at ourselves deeper and with more indepth wisdom, we are but all similar beings twirling around in samsara...
Recognise our own mistakes and shortcomings and do not be too eager to judge the next time you see someone "fall". Reach out you hand and keep that tongue in check!
Well at least i try to tell myself that on a daily basis... :P
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You know what's funny? I find people in the Dharma are generally more harsh and critical about each other than those who are not in the Dharma. There is always that undue expectation that in the Dharma center, everyone's got to be the smiling and haloed Bodhisattva. However, I do notice that there are those that use their critical views (of people) to help them overcome their problems and there are those that use it to further their own aims or to hide their own flaws.
I admit that I am also very critical of almost everybody in the Dharma center and I have noticed people who are critical about me too. As a result, I have become self-conscious of my criticism and I try to temper it by recognizing their good qualities as well. Every time I start to criticize someone, I will do my best to recall the good qualities of that person. I am not always successful with this but i do try. I think remembering the good qualities of others and not just hen pecking or focussing on the bad qualities is a good habit to develop.
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Tough practice is dealing with people overtaken by anger and that have no Dharma knowledge to deal with it.
These people are my teachers.
They teach me compassion, they teach me skillful means.
I recently had to deal with a friend (not in Dharma) very angry at me, and that is tough practice.
But I learn so much... As PC says, it is just like looking at me in a mirror...
I learn about me through experiencing a friend yelling at me.
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As the saying goes, "everyone is entitled to their opinions"... but is it?? Is what people say facts or opinions and how can we best use it for our benefit.
I came across this article which i thought is quite interesting -
Source http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/12/you_are_never_e.html (http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/12/you_are_never_e.html)
An excerpt below:
The idea that everyone is entitled to their opinion comes in part from our cult of democracy. We are proud to live in a society where we all can "have our say" by talking and voting, and those who claim we do not know enough to have a useful say, we suspect are trying to disenfranchise us. We must therefore all know enough to have a useful say on any public issue. But that is wrong.
A related error is the idea there are two kinds of topics: facts and opinions. On facts you can be wrong, so you just go to experts and then believe them. On opinions no one can be wrong; the weight of opinion is the weight of power; those who say there are experts are trying to trick you into giving up your power.
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I always think that I have all flaws that others have but with varying degrees from past and present habituation. I have pride, anger and ignorance and I live in delusions from my wrong observations and expectations. I suffer when the results do not match my expectations. Then I project the same to others for them to perceive me as such.
I too am critical of others and judge them from their actions, wrong or right is stemmed from my wrong perception. Sometimes when I see a mistake someone is repeating and of which I had an experience with before, I became critical and say or do things that may sound or look harsh or being judgmental. I forgot that I, too, had made the similar mistake as that person. I forgot that I was fortunate to have a great Guru who is teaching, guiding and helping me to transform. And maybe that person did not.
I will put this into my mind and put it into practice the next time. That is, to practice awareness and patience. Does that mean I will keep quiet and not say or do anything? No. in fact I would endeavor to be more vocal constructively and do more.
People are people and there is no difference that those who are practicing dharma are more harsh and critical of others than those who are not in dharma. Buddhist practitioners are just practitioners unless spiritual attainments were achieved. Thus I do not agree with Big Uncle that people in dharma are generally more harsh and critical than those people who are not in dharma
Yes, I agree with Big Uncle that I would do my best to recognize the feat, success and good qualities of others rather than to focus on just their weaknesses. This would help me to remind myself to look into the mirror first. But I would be wary and alert for others who might want to take advantage.
I may be in dharma but do I really have dharma IN me? For now, no, because I am still practicing dharma and have realized anything yet.
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CORRECTION TO LAST SENTENCE
I may be in dharma but do I really have dharma IN me? For now, no, because I am still practicing dharma and have NOT realized anything yet.
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Someone once said : "We don't see the beam (of wood/metal) in our own eye and yet see the speck( of dirt/dust) in another's eye". Yes. we are quick to see a little fault in others and magnify it innumerable times over. Yet we don't see that, in us, the same flaw has already become a character flaw.
Take for instance, the case of our criticizing someone for being late for work a couple of times and magnifying it into a serious problem of irresponsibility. Yet, at the same time, we are the one who is always not completing our work on time as promised, and every time, it happens, we always have a ready set of excuses. What we don't see is that ,by always not completing our work on time as we had promised, we are even more overtly and outrageously irresponsible!We are a walking embodiment of irresponsibility.
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It is strange how we are often so eager or delighted even, to point out someone else's mistakes or shortcomings when we actually have made similar if not worse mistakes or shortcomings?
Why this is so? Well very simple... how can we recognise something for what it is if we not know it first hand! For example, if we see someone overtly angersome, we recognise those similar emotions like someone pointing a mirror to our face and hence we "react" to it. Or if we find someone sneaky and we recognise it immediately because we have actually done the same previously...
Sure we try to convince ourselves we are better than others but if we truly look at ourselves deeper and with more indepth wisdom, we are but all similar beings twirling around in samsara...
Recognise our own mistakes and shortcomings and do not be too eager to judge the next time you see someone "fall". Reach out you hand and keep that tongue in check!
Well at least i try to tell myself that on a daily basis... :P
Bottom line is... work on oneself - myself... see within, battle my demons instead of others... : )
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Bottom line is... work on oneself - myself... see within, battle my demons instead of others... : )
Well said. We have to fight the enemy within us instead of others!
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Every time I start to criticize someone, I will do my best to recall the good qualities of that person. I am not always successful with this but i do try. I think remembering the good qualities of others and not just hen pecking or focussing on the bad qualities is a good habit to develop.
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I very much agreed with Big Uncle and nowadays before I jump into criticize others, I will do my best to see each individual positive strengths and qualities and not focusing on the bad qualities.
I find this method helps and lead me to have a better relationship with all kinds of people.
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That's why in the Guru yoga of Je Tsongkhapa we rejoice with whatever Je Tsongkhapa have achieved and all his good qualities, to teach us to focus on the good qualities.
It is for us to cultivate the good qualities in us which we have either not fully bloom yet or dormant , it is also for us to focus on others' good qualities especially to those we found difficult to work with, or people who hurt us before. As mentioned before, if we keep focusing the bad point of a person, we are actually reinforce it on ourselves and it does not help us in Dharma practice as well.
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In dharma environment, when someone were to point out mistakes and flaws of other fellow dharma friends, is out of care and concern for them, if the intent is true care and not out of ego and pride. It may seems judgemental if the wrong doer or faulter view it negatively. No matter what it is, we are to support, help and guide each other to become better. Along the way both parties help each other for the betterment of oneself and others toward a general goal. Who has no mistakes and faults to begin with? No one is free of them. If not we would not be here and connected to even discuss about it. Not just that, it even propels oneself to even wanted to improve and do more as to be an example for all.
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If we have to focus on the negative qualities of a person, we must ensure that it is with the thought of helping him recognise those qualities and take responsibility to change. It is always so much easier to talk of someone else's negativities than to speak good of his positive ones.
Accept compliments on your good qualities and be appreciative of comments about your negative ones.
In any environment, when we take the trouble to point out such negativites, we should always ensure it is done out of care and concern, not to belittle the other person.
We also hope that friends will be kind enough to talk to us about it and help us improve.
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Seeing the faults of others will cause us to miss out on caring for others. If we habituate ourselves with picking the faults of others, it will spill over to picking on ourselves as well. Then, we only focus on the negative side of things or a person, and overlook their potentials and talents.
Echoing what Positive Change said, every being wants to be loved, to be cared for and treated with respect. No one wants to be judged, criticised nor feel rejected. If we are like that as well, then why do we do it upon others?
If we cultivate the habit of focusing on others’ strengths and talents, wouldn’t the world appear to be a more ‘beautiful’ place? Kindness is not just about generosity, it is also about leaving behind habits of finding faults that causes suffering for ourselves and others.
This doesn’t mean we pretend that the world is perfect, we may still see our own and others’ imperfections, but our mind will be more accepting and open to others’ fault. No one is perfect and no one expect others to be too, hence the importance is for us to care and appreciate each other in order to help each other on the spiritual path.
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Focusing and seeing and obsessing on others' bad qualities will eventually cause us to take on those qualities ourselves. Why? If we can gain the Buddha's qualities by meditating and contemplating on them, we can also gain the negative qualities of other people when we focus and meditate on them. It only makes sense that the meditation will work the other way round. So why waste our mental power focusing and acquiring the negative qualities of others when we can acquire the positive ones? It only makes more sense that we dont and we focus only on the good qualities on others. Also, on top of that, nobody wants to be criticized or judged for their actions, yet in their delusions, they judge and criticize others, creating the cause for them to be criticized and judged in the end. If we are okay with being criticized and judged, then we can criticize and judge others. If we find tremendous suffering when we are being criticized or judged, then we should not criticize or judge others, nor should we keep a negative impression of others in our minds as it will also cause us to hold on to the negative qualities of others and in the end we cannot even form a good connection with them. What if they change for the better and our impressions did not change? Then it is a case of accusing others.
With that said, sometimes it is also important to learn from the mistake of others so that we do not repeat them. There is a difference between badmouthing and relating a story so that others may learn. There is a difference between focusing on the bad qualities of others and reveling in it and feeling more superior as a result, and discussing about the negative qualities so that we can learn not to repeat the same mistake. Often people make the mistake of either talking too much about the negative qualities of a person, or not talking about it at all. Both also have the same results, that is the mistake or negative quality will be repeated and inherited by the said persons, or by people who have not heard of that story before. If talking about the mistakes of others is bad, then in many sutras and commentaries, the stories of how the buddhist sages of the past 'screw up' (for example, Rechungpa's mistake of defying milarepa several times, or how naropa broke his Guru's instruction to not engage in debate, or how marpa missed out on Vajrayogini because he prostrated to the Yidam and not the Guru) would be covered up. The fact that they are published means we must learn from them, so that we do not do what they did.
In the end, we need to be very careful of our motivation and thoughts when contemplating of others' mistakes. We must not repeat them and we must also think of a solution on how to solve them at the same time it it repeats. It is all the training of the mind.
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You know what's funny? I find people in the Dharma are generally more harsh and critical about each other than those who are not in the Dharma. There is always that undue expectation that in the Dharma center, everyone's got to be the smiling and haloed Bodhisattva. However, I do notice that there are those that use their critical views (of people) to help them overcome their problems and there are those that use it to further their own aims or to hide their own flaws.
I admit that I am also very critical of almost everybody in the Dharma center and I have noticed people who are critical about me too. As a result, I have become self-conscious of my criticism and I try to temper it by recognizing their good qualities as well. Every time I start to criticize someone, I will do my best to recall the good qualities of that person. I am not always successful with this but i do try. I think remembering the good qualities of others and not just hen pecking or focussing on the bad qualities is a good habit to develop.
Dear Big Uncle,
I agree with you that people in the Dharma are generally more harsh and critical about each other than those who are not in the Dharma. I think it is because people in Dharma care enough to speak up when we see our Dharma brothers or sisters doing something wrong, even if it risks them not liking us.
However, we must bear in mind that everyone has a different level of acceptance and tolerance. It is really good that we care, but we must also check deep into ourselves first whether or not we are setting a good example before pointing out the short comings of others. Every individual have different point of view due their upbringing, and to the way things are shaped and formed around them, it doesn’t necessary means an action is wrong or right. It may seem wrong to us, but to the person doing it, in his / her situation, it may be right.
Being too critical and fast to fault will turn people off. This is especially so if we are a senior in a Dharma centre. An example is that maybe we keep reminding a junior to be more mindful, to be less angersome, to be less irritable, to be responsible etc etc, and after lecturing this or that person, we ourselves go around doing EXACTLY the things we told him / her not to. What kind of example is that? The junior may think, and hence start to lose respect and have doubt for that particular senior who may be in charge of nurturing him / her. And maybe because of this, may even leave the Dharma centre, or worse, the Dharma. This is something we do not want happening in a Dharma centre. After all, those who check themselves into a Dharma centre recognize that they have problems and need help.
Focusing on good qualities I feel is more important than picking on bad qualities. We have the right to remind if we see something wrong, scold if we need to, and shout when we are desperate provided all is done with a good and pure motivation to help the other person. But I personally think we should reserve all harsh methods of advise, unless or until it is really necessary.
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You know what's funny? I find people in the Dharma are generally more harsh and critical about each other than those who are not in the Dharma. There is always that undue expectation that in the Dharma center, everyone's got to be the smiling and haloed Bodhisattva. However, I do notice that there are those that use their critical views (of people) to help them overcome their problems and there are those that use it to further their own aims or to hide their own flaws.
I admit that I am also very critical of almost everybody in the Dharma center and I have noticed people who are critical about me too. As a result, I have become self-conscious of my criticism and I try to temper it by recognizing their good qualities as well. Every time I start to criticize someone, I will do my best to recall the good qualities of that person. I am not always successful with this but i do try. I think remembering the good qualities of others and not just hen pecking or focussing on the bad qualities is a good habit to develop.
Sometimes, people in the Dharma are more critical of others because of their own insecurities that get exposed as they realize more and more people know what is going on. Being critical of others' flaws is just a way to distract others from our own flaws in the long run. In judging the mistakes of others, we do not need to focus on our own or rather, we just dont focus on our own mistakes and flaws. That is at least what I have noticed how my mind works. In the end nothing gets fixed and I cannot progress in my Dharma practice. Somehow, it becomes more of a superiority complex thing that became harmful to me. It was my kind Lama who woke me up from this delusion. With that said, in the 50 verses of Guru devotion, we have:
44. Be diligent in all your actions, (alert and) mindful never to forget (your word of honour). If fellow-disciples transgress (what is proper) in their behaviour, correct each other in a friendly manner.
So we can see and observe the weaknesses of others but at the same time we have to provide friendly reminders and feedbacks so that they may improve instead of reveling in their weakness. It may mot always be easy to accept friendly reminders or harsh reminders from fellow Dharma brothers and sisters but if not, how can we improve? Who else would be so kind as to remind us of our mistakes and on where else should we patch up if not for them? we cannot depend on the Guru alone to do this. Sometimes, before i feel like criticizing, i recollect my own weaknesses, and since i have them, i have no right to judge or criticize other people until i fix mine and find a solution. If I am not in the same situation as that person, what right do i have to judge them?
My tendency to judge others stopped when i reflected on my own weaknesses, although they do come back when others trigger unhappy feelings in me. I guess that is something that I need to work at.
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You know what's funny? I find people in the Dharma are generally more harsh and critical about each other than those who are not in the Dharma. There is always that undue expectation that in the Dharma center, everyone's got to be the smiling and haloed Bodhisattva. However, I do notice that there are those that use their critical views (of people) to help them overcome their problems and there are those that use it to further their own aims or to hide their own flaws.
I admit that I am also very critical of almost everybody in the Dharma center and I have noticed people who are critical about me too. As a result, I have become self-conscious of my criticism and I try to temper it by recognizing their good qualities as well. Every time I start to criticize someone, I will do my best to recall the good qualities of that person. I am not always successful with this but i do try. I think remembering the good qualities of others and not just hen pecking or focussing on the bad qualities is a good habit to develop.
Dear Big Uncle,
I agree with you that people in the Dharma are generally more harsh and critical about each other than those who are not in the Dharma. I think it is because people in Dharma care enough to speak up when we see our Dharma brothers or sisters doing something wrong, even if it risks them not liking us.
However, we must bear in mind that everyone has a different level of acceptance and tolerance. It is really good that we care, but we must also check deep into ourselves first whether or not we are setting a good example before pointing out the short comings of others. Every individual have different point of view due their upbringing, and to the way things are shaped and formed around them, it doesn’t necessary means an action is wrong or right. It may seem wrong to us, but to the person doing it, in his / her situation, it may be right.
Being too critical and fast to fault will turn people off. This is especially so if we are a senior in a Dharma centre. An example is that maybe we keep reminding a junior to be more mindful, to be less angersome, to be less irritable, to be responsible etc etc, and after lecturing this or that person, we ourselves go around doing EXACTLY the things we told him / her not to. What kind of example is that? The junior may think, and hence start to lose respect and have doubt for that particular senior who may be in charge of nurturing him / her. And maybe because of this, may even leave the Dharma centre, or worse, the Dharma. This is something we do not want happening in a Dharma centre. After all, those who check themselves into a Dharma centre recognize that they have problems and need help.
Focusing on good qualities I feel is more important than picking on bad qualities. We have the right to remind if we see something wrong, scold if we need to, and shout when we are desperate provided all is done with a good and pure motivation to help the other person. But I personally think we should reserve all harsh methods of advise, unless or until it is really necessary.
I agree with both of you here. Sometimes it may seem a little intimidating to outsiders looking in when using blunt"frankness" in the hopes of making someone see within themselves is applied. It does not always work as these methods often used by qualified teachers are, I believe, "designed" to push one's buttons to give rise to certain emotions or feelings... However, as a lay person employing such methods, one may not have the necessary tools to counter or appease the deluge when it occurs and hence it would be counter productive.
There always has to be a solution to a problem. If we continue to spark a problem without having the "fire extinguisher" at hand is very dangerous. I see this often in Dharma centers whereby the students employ the methods of the teachers without first understanding or knowing how to address the issues when the "flood gates" open so to speak.
I believe, we are all a package of good and bad habits... more often bad of course but there is some good in everybody. We just need to see it for what it is. I prescribe to seeing the good in everyone and when honesty is required within the context of curbing rudeness then I believe that is a good method at least for my limited understanding.
Once again, we can only recognise the qualities we ourselves have... so remember to take a step back when someone actually pisses us off, hurts us or causes some form of negativity... because that very same emotion could have arisen from your own actions and hence we recognise it for what it is. It is the classic phrase from the parable of Mary Magdelene: "Let the sinless man among you be the first to throw a stone at her."
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Sometimes it may seem a little intimidating to outsiders looking in when using blunt"frankness" in the hopes of making someone see within themselves is applied. It does not always work as these methods often used by qualified teachers are, I believe, "designed" to push one's buttons to give rise to certain emotions or feelings... However, as a lay person employing such methods, one may not have the necessary tools to counter or appease the deluge when it occurs and hence it would be counter productive.
There always has to be a solution to a problem. If we continue to spark a problem without having the "fire extinguisher" at hand is very dangerous. I see this often in Dharma centers whereby the students employ the methods of the teachers without first understanding or knowing how to address the issues when the "flood gates" open so to speak.
I believe, we are all a package of good and bad habits... more often bad of course but there is some good in everybody. We just need to see it for what it is. I prescribe to seeing the good in everyone and when honesty is required within the context of curbing rudeness then I believe that is a good method at least for my limited understanding.
Once again, we can only recognise the qualities we ourselves have... so remember to take a step back when someone actually pisses us off, hurts us or causes some form of negativity... because that very same emotion could have arisen from your own actions and hence we recognise it for what it is. It is the classic phrase from the parable of Mary Magdelene: "Let the sinless man among you be the first to throw a stone at her."
PA, indeed I have seen methods in Dharma Center being rather wrath and exposing.
Methods used by enlightened beings may be similar, but, as you said, one needs something near to omnipotence to deal with an open Pandora's box.
In the corporate / secular world, people are being dealt with differently so as to pretend to the best efficiency, best marketing in order to turn up a profit.
In a Dharma Center, even if the best efficiency is found using people at their best skills, it is of very little use, for the efficiency of a Dharma center is not measured at how well things run but how much the students have transformed.
This may mean for the students to be challenged out of their usual roles, being assigned on tasks that they are not used to, or being treated in ways that may be challenging.
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PA, indeed I have seen methods in Dharma Center being rather wrath and exposing.
Methods used by enlightened beings may be similar, but, as you said, one needs something near to omnipotence to deal with an open Pandora's box.
In the corporate / secular world, people are being dealt with differently so as to pretend to the best efficiency, best marketing in order to turn up a profit.
In a Dharma Center, even if the best efficiency is found using people at their best skills, it is of very little use, for the efficiency of a Dharma center is not measured at how well things run but how much the students have transformed.
This may mean for the students to be challenged out of their usual roles, being assigned on tasks that they are not used to, or being treated in ways that may be challenging.
For me, the best efficiency that can be measured and seen in a Dharma center is whether or not the members are able to apply Buddhist principles and philosophy into their daily lives and how they interact with people or deal with situations. Are they kind when talking to other members? Do they use the savage ways of the corporate world to deal with problems within the Dharma center, or do they still use those same methods of brown nosing the boss at the expense of the colleagues to get a promotion? Do they act in selfish ways that damage others? Do they laugh and put down fellow members who have made mistakes and have fallen, or do they speak kindly of them and support them and get them back on track to repairing their samaya or reputation in the center? All of these tiny actions reflect the application of Dharma in their daily lives, and people who observe the presence of such qualities will be drawn and attracted to the Dharma center and a Dharma center whose members lack such qualities will repel people from joining the center and being part of the sangha there.
There is a point when hope rainbow mentioned about the Dharma students being able to do work that they would normally hate, because it means how much of themselves that they are willing to give up in order to do the Dharma and to benefit and serve others. Dharma is all about serving others and if there is a gauge for the effectiveness of a Dharma center, that should be it.
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Among the eighteen commitments of the mind-training practice mentioned by Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche in "Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand", there is one about not speaking about others' defects. In fact, according to Pabongka Rinpoche, we should not think of others at all. That is, we should analyse our own faults and not look into the faults of others at all. He says that "Otherwise you will only look for faults in your fellow practitioners, the members of your monastic college, or the monks in your house at college, etc; you will then naturally find fault even in buddhas. Do not attribute faults to others, for if you do, you will ignore people, belittle them, and so on all the more". ("Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand", 2006, Day 19, p. 267).
I always try to remember these words whenever I catch myself criticising others. It is important to be mindful not to hurt others with our speech and not to judge them. Another method I use is to remember Mother Teresa's words, "If you judge people, you have no time to love them."
A famous Theravadain monk wrote in a book "How to Overcome Your Difficulties" that "there are various ways to correct a person if he is wrong. By criticising, blaming and shouting at him publicly, you cannot correct him. You must know how to correct him without humiliating him. Many people make more enemies by criticising others. If you can tell him kindly, with the intention of correcting him, he will certainly listen to you and some day he will thank you for your guidance and kindness. "
"Whenever you express your views regarding certain matters, always try to use words which would not hurt the feelings of others. There are various ways to express your views gently, politely, or even diplomatically." ...
"You should not lose your temper when your faults are pointed out. You may think that by showing your temper and shouting at others you can suppress or overcome your shortcomings. It is a false and wrong attitude to adopt."
"Cultivate tolerance for tolerance helps you to avoid hasty judgements, to sympathise with other people's troubles, to avoid capricious criticism and to realise that even the finest human being is not infallible. The weakness you find in your neighbours can be found in your own self."
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I have seen people who use wrathful ways to help someone but do remember that many of us are not that skillful yet and it tends to backfire. When it does, people will hate or leave the Dharma center. How can you scold me when you are also acting the same way?
In the secular world, we tend to be 'ok' if our superior scold us but I don't think someone else have the authority especially those only know how to criticize and judge people.
Instead of someone being harsh thinking that they can change the person, shouldn't it be in a kinder way? Just like some who wants to be pampered with kind words like a mother to her child? Whether these people have their own flaws or not, it gives nobody the right to use their critical views of others. And so do we... ;D