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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: mountains on February 08, 2008, 09:10:17 PM

Title: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: mountains on February 08, 2008, 09:10:17 PM
April 5th, 1996

H.H. the Dalai Lama addresses the Tibetan Youth Congress and the Women Association to encourage them to take up the cause of enforcing the ban. During this talk, H.H. the Dalai Lama is reported as saying that there may be one or two persons who might be willing to give up their life for him. Although this was later removed from the talk, it is believed that the talk was videoed by a Japanese film crew.

At 8 am, a group of nuns went into the abbot's chamber and dragged a Dorje Shugden statue into the street by using a rope attached to its neck. This statue in the Gaden Choeling Nunnery, which was consecrated by His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, the junior tutor of H.H. the Dalai Lama, H.H. Ling Rinpoche, the senior tutor of H.H. the Dalai Lama, Kyabje Song Rinpoche and Kyabje Rato Rinpoche. The perpetrators, Lobsang Dechen, disciplinarian of the nunnery, assisted by nun Tenzin Tselha and Dolma Yangzom, spat at, sat on, broken up into pieces, and then thrown the remains into the town's garbage dump.
[/color] :-\ :'( :-[ ???
(from www.shugdensociety.info)


(Can nuns act this way? It is shocking. To think suddenly they can do this to an image of Dorje Shugden??? I am sad for the nuns to be so fanatical. Heavy negative karma, and very bad example of Tibetan Nuns to lose their 'cool' and show their lack of practice (sorry to say). Dorje Shugden can never be damaged. As proven by the 5th Dalai Lama who unsucessfully try to have him destroyed on numerous occasions through various rituals with the great lamas of his day, finally giving up to install him as an enlightened being, composing prayers, temple and images of Dorje Shugden. If the 5th Dalai Lama cannot destroy him, it shows you his nature. Also inside the statue had many holy mantras that the nuns spat and sat on. That is heavy karma of desecrating Dharma words.)

Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: ilikeshugden on December 26, 2011, 05:16:24 PM
The actions that these nuns have made will create the causes for them to have suffering. This is because they have destroyed a sacred image of an Enlightened being.  I thought that Nuns would have elegance. I really dislike it when people go this far to stop the practice. It is pathetic. They should just allow us to do our practice and they should not interfere. Ordained nuns shouldn’t act this way.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: WisdomBeing on December 26, 2011, 05:23:43 PM
Although this happened about 15 years ago, it is still very sad to read this news. While I do understand that the nuns wished to follow the Dalai Lama's instructions, it was not necessary to be so overtly disrespectful of a holy object. What did they hope to achieve? To curry favour with the Dalai Lama?

The fact that the statue had been consecrated by such highly attained Masters obviously did not make them pause in their desecration and yes, as ilikeshugden says, they will reap that karma. However, they are still representing the Sangha, so i do think that ilikeshugden does not need to be so harsh when talking about ordained people.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: Galen on December 26, 2011, 05:26:40 PM
It is obvious that this action is not acceptable. I thought sangha members are suppose to be compassionate and kind. This action creates a bad image to other sangha members.

Destroying a statue of Dorje Shugden would not destroy the protector. He is a buddha and does not have the karma to be eliminated. And an image is for us practitioners to help us visualise better in our meditation. By them destroying the statue, they themselves will create heavy negative karma.

Even if they do not believe in Dorje Shugden anymore, they could donate the statue to a monastery. I'm sure a monastery will happily accept it.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: Lineageholder on December 26, 2011, 06:00:49 PM
People are shocked when ordained nuns break up a Dorje Shugden statue and throw it into the local dump but you must remember that this happened because of the wishes of the Dalai Lama, who similarly has no respect for Dorje Shugden statues:

Quote
1983

H.H. the Dalai Lama orders the removal of Dorje Shugden statue from the main prayer hall of Gaden Monastery, the main monastery of Gelug Tradition of Tibetan Buddhism. When the Dalai Lama is told that the statue was too large to get through the door, he replies that the statue should be broke up.


http://www.shugdensociety.info/historyEvents1996EN.html (http://www.shugdensociety.info/historyEvents1996EN.html)

Their actions have a precedent.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: DSFriend on December 26, 2011, 06:16:42 PM
From the Buddha's side, they will never be offended.

I've read that it's better to have created a negative connection/action with a lama than none, as the lama will use that connection to plant imprints for our future.

I wonder if this works the same when negative actions are done towards a buddha statue as in this case?
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: Big Uncle on December 26, 2011, 06:19:30 PM
People are shocked when ordained nuns break up a Dorje Shugden statue and throw it into the local dump but you must remember that this happened because of the wishes of the Dalai Lama, who similarly has no respect for Dorje Shugden statues:

Quote
1983

H.H. the Dalai Lama orders the removal of Dorje Shugden statue from the main prayer hall of Gaden Monastery, the main monastery of Gelug Tradition of Tibetan Buddhism. When the Dalai Lama is told that the statue was too large to get through the door, he replies that the statue should be broke up.


[url]http://www.shugdensociety.info/historyEvents1996EN.html[/url] ([url]http://www.shugdensociety.info/historyEvents1996EN.html[/url])

Their actions have a precedent.


Are you sure that statue was broken up? According to these pictures and this post, the statue appears to have been moved over to this little chapel within Gaden itself and continues to be propitiated. According to this account, the Dalai Lama requested that the statue be moved out of the Lachi prayer hall. I heard the same story from a reliable monk friend within Gaden. Apparently, it is well known fact in the monastery that the statue was moved and not broken to pieces. 
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: Big Uncle on December 26, 2011, 06:20:14 PM
Sorry, 

the account mentioned earlier was from this post:-

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1519.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1519.0)

cheers.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: shugdenpromoter on December 27, 2011, 11:32:36 AM
April 5th, 1996

H.H. the Dalai Lama addresses the Tibetan Youth Congress and the Women Association to encourage them to take up the cause of enforcing the ban. During this talk, H.H. the Dalai Lama is reported as saying that there may be one or two persons who might be willing to give up their life for him. Although this was later removed from the talk, it is believed that the talk was videoed by a Japanese film crew.

At 8 am, a group of nuns went into the abbot's chamber and dragged a Dorje Shugden statue into the street by using a rope attached to its neck. This statue in the Gaden Choeling Nunnery, which was consecrated by His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, the junior tutor of H.H. the Dalai Lama, H.H. Ling Rinpoche, the senior tutor of H.H. the Dalai Lama, Kyabje Song Rinpoche and Kyabje Rato Rinpoche. The perpetrators, Lobsang Dechen, disciplinarian of the nunnery, assisted by nun Tenzin Tselha and Dolma Yangzom, spat at, sat on, broken up into pieces, and then thrown the remains into the town's garbage dump.
[/color] :-\ :'( :-[ ???
(from [url=http://www.shugdensociety.info]www.shugdensociety.info[/url] ([url]http://www.shugdensociety.info[/url]))



I have heard that the nuns from Gaden Choeling Nunnery do go over to Trijang Ladrang in Gaden to make offerings and circumambulate very discreetly until today. I am happy to hear that.

I am sure not all nuns were involved in "getting rid" of Shugden statue. They could have done something at that time, they didn't. It is sad and I hope they regret what they have done and NOT DONE. I cannot imagine in amount of negative karma these nuns have accumulated just because they wanted to be politically right. And this was what TGIE has done ;- Make people break vows, make families separate, causes death, fights and etc. Sigh  :(



Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: whitelion on December 28, 2011, 12:56:02 PM
This is totally unbelievable.  Even nuns would do something so ridiculous.  By making a statement it won't prove anything.  Why show the world whether Shugden is evil or not?  Shugden don't need to know and clearly the world don't need to know.  The lineage is based on real record and time, text, stories, testimonials, materials from hundred of years ago.  So why deny the truth?  Even things changed, the core meaning of dharma and protector shouldn't change.  An enlightened protector is an enlightened protector. Simple!  Even you don't practice don't have to make the situation so bad.  Moreover they are nuns.  Great disappointment.  This is exactly what the ban entails.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: pgdharma on December 28, 2011, 03:33:11 PM
If they are really ordained nuns, they would not have acted this way. Destroying holy images collects heavy negative karma yet this nuns defied their vows and behaved in this ridiculous manner. What a shame! If Dorje Shugden cannot be destroyed during the 5th Dalai Lama's time, how can he be destroyed now? Did the nuns think that by destroying, sitting and spatting the statue will destroy Dorje Shugden or break the faith of DS practitioners? I feel so sad for these nuns who destroyed the statues as karma will catch up with them eventually. I wonder if they will have any regrets when the truth prevails that Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being and not a spirit.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: Dolce Vita on December 28, 2011, 03:57:44 PM
As a buddhist, we should show respect to people, we should be kind and compassionate. We should not encourage fight or behave badly. We are taught in schools that spitting is not a good bahaviour, destroying things is also not a good behaviour. If these behaviours are not acceptable in a non-spiritual level, I believe they are also not acceptable in the monastery. I am shocked by what these nuns have done. 
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: thor on December 28, 2011, 04:05:08 PM
Why would nuns be so afraid of a statue of Shugden? Last I heard, refuge in the Three Jewels give protection from harm by spirits. So there is no necessity to conduct a public display of condemnation and complete disrespect, even if it was to a worldly deity. I mean, when lamas conduct exorcisms or consecrations of places, there are many spirits and worldly beings present but the Lama usually treats such beings with extreme compassion. Not out of fear but from kindness

So why did these nuns act so unbuddhist to shugden? Were their actions justified? What were they afraid of - Dorje shugden or Dalai Lama?
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: Poonlarp on December 28, 2011, 04:18:33 PM
It's really sad to hear this.

Statue can be destroyed, but not the enlighten beings. Where were their wisdom and compassion when they were doing such actions?

As a Buddhist, we are not worshiping to statues, we are paying respect to the qualities of the statue which represent the enlighten beings, and hope we can have higher attainment to achieve enlightenment.

By destroying the statue, it doesnt hurt the enlighten beings at all but they gain their bad karma, this such basic knowledge even like a newbies to Buddhism like me can understand, how could sangha members don't understand?

The Tibetan Buddhism is getting chaos by the ban. Let's pray hard, hope the ban will be lifted very soon, and free everybody from this contradiction and confusion.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: shugdenprotect on December 28, 2011, 05:33:21 PM
It is horrifying to witness such unbecoming acts by these nuns. As Dolce Vita said: even lay people define the acts of spitting and destroying property as poor behavior. To have ordained individuals perform such acts reflects very poorly on the 3 jewels.

Well, damage has been done as this event occurred 15 years ago. So, as Dharma practitioners, we need to use this "bad" situation as a "good" reminder of what we should never do. These nuns' behavior on this occasion is a lesson for us to develop an understanding on why people cause such damaging results with their actions: why did they do such a thing?

It must be out of fear. Fear stems from ignorance. Perhaps, these nuns acted this way as they were ignorant of the truth about Dorje Shugden.

Based on this result, we can learn that we should not act out of fear because, in doing so, we almost always create consequences that is damaging to others and ourselves. In Dharma, we are taught to act out of love to benefit others. If the nuns had acted out of love, they may be able to uphold their respect for the Dalai Lama and fulfill HH’s request while also keeping their vows to treat ALL sentient beings from all 6 realms with kindness (assuming they truly believe that Dorje Shugden was a spirit at that time). Example: As written by Galen, donate the Buddha image to another monastery etc. By acting out of love, we will, at the very least, not cause harm.

Similarly, we should not act in ignorance. Before taking action, we should develop understanding because as Dr Brian Weiss (a doctor and author on regression hypnosis) puts it understanding dissolves fear and develop love.

Despite the damage that is done, we can still somewhat salvage the situation by taking the lessons to be learnt from this sad situation. There is a silver lining in every cloud, may our study of Dharma empower us to also search for and find this lining.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: happysun on December 28, 2011, 05:56:35 PM


Cannot believe a ordained nun can do this kind of thing for a holy item???
What is the purpose of doing this action!!!???
So more this statue had blessed by many high lamas.
Cannot believe it......cannot.....believe.....
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: Carpenter on December 28, 2011, 06:33:50 PM
Being a nun or a monk does not change their true character, when they are still a lay people, they have been very mean, sneaky, selfish all the time, even after ordained, their character will remain the same, the only thing that can make them change is the dharma they have learned and apply it in their daily life, so, obviously they are not complying what they have learned.

As from the action are by individual, so not all sangha are like that, some will transformed fast but some will not, so for those who are not, they will do something very obvious to attract attention and to show that they are doing their practice very well by following the what Dalai Lama said, this could be a way to cover their weaknesses.

Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: DharmaDefender on December 28, 2011, 07:51:57 PM
Yeah Im not surprised they did what they did. Like what Carpenters said, becoming a monk or nun doesnt change someones character, especially if they became ordained

It also complicates things that theyre Tibetan so they have two loyalties - their monastery and the Dalai Lama. If the Dalai Lamas against DS and the government says to suppress the people and smash the images, and the monastery is against DS practice, whaddaya think these nuns were going to do?

Well they couldve come to their own logical conclusion, you say? Well they didnt need to listen to the monastery or Dalai Lama? Come on - if independent thinking was a Tibetan trait, China owuldnt have taken over Tibet so easily. It was all the dithering in between and um-ing and ah-ing about stuff, and inability to think logically when it comes to the Dalai Lama and their government, that lost them their country.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: Lawrence L on December 28, 2011, 08:14:36 PM
IF the nuns really broke the statue up or handle the statue in disrespectful way , they were not practicing Dharma. For people who loves Dharma, who intergrates their lives with Dharma, whenever he/she encounters things that he/she hate or whatsoever, he/she wouldn't wish to harm people or anything.

This is because our perception towards a person/thing that caused us to 'feel' the pain or feel the sweet part. If we really feel the pain, it doesn't means that we could go and harm people or anything else. Hating or loving someone or something is all about our own mind. Why we put the responsibility on others and cause them to suffer?

This is not the core of the Buddha's teaching. Whenever we have the mind or action or speech to harm others, we create tremendous bad karma for ourselves.

My point is, if you hate someone or something, leave it there. Don't go and harm. Don't be the cause to others suffering.

By letting people depressed, uneasy or insecure etc, are we going to experience any happiness? NOT AT ALL.

Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: hope rainbow on December 29, 2011, 03:27:03 AM
I wonder though.

It is because of these types of thought and actions (*) that this site exist.

That this site exists allows for many people to create merit by participating to it and also gives many an opportunity to connect with Dorje Shugden or at least get imprints.

The merit for being part of the cause for this site's very existence, that merit... is it also collected by these nuns unknowingly?

I wonder...

(*) I am referring to the nuns thoughts and actions

Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: icy on December 29, 2011, 03:53:06 AM
I believe these nuns from Gaden Choling though overwhelm with the negative karma of desecrating a Dorje Shugden statue on their side will create a connection for Dorje Shugden to benefit them in the future.  After all Dorje Shugden is Manjushri, the Wisdom Buddha.  I have no doubt about this.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: dondrup on December 29, 2011, 04:56:40 AM
April 5th, 1996

The perpetrators, Lobsang Dechen, disciplinarian of the nunnery, assisted by nun Tenzin Tselha and Dolma Yangzom, spat at, sat on, broken up into pieces, and then thrown the remains into the town's garbage dump.
[/color]
(from [url=http://www.shugdensociety.info]www.shugdensociety.info[/url] ([url]http://www.shugdensociety.info[/url]))
   

The ordained sangha are the ambassadors of Buddhism.  They are the Sangha Jewels who are supposed to uphold the Dharma.  To behave and act in the ways that these three nuns had done is very damaging to the image of Buddhism.  It is very disrespectful to the Three Jewels!
 
What kind of impressions are these nuns creating in the minds of others?  They outrightly stop or prevent people who may be interested to embrace Buddhism as a religion or a way of life.  Who would want to send their children to the monastery to study Buddhism?  Who would want to become a nun or study Buddhism if the monastery or Buddhism produces nuns whose actions and behaviours are so unbecoming!
 
A disciplinarian is someone who ensures everyone follows the rules and vows in the monastery.  Lobsang Dechen, disciplinarian of the nunnery had set a very bad example to others!
 
It ‘appears’ that the nun had acted ignorantly by following HH Dalai Lama’s instructions. What confuses the World till today is why is HH Dalai Lama enforcing the ban on Dorje Shugden?  This question is waiting to be answered.
 
May the truth prevails.  Dorje Shugden is meant for everyone.  The ban on Dorje Shugden must be lifted quickly!

Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: beggar on January 25, 2012, 03:30:04 PM
I wonder though.

It is because of these types of thought and actions (*) that this site exist.

That this site exists allows for many people to create merit by participating to it and also gives many an opportunity to connect with Dorje Shugden or at least get imprints.

The merit for being part of the cause for this site's very existence, that merit... is it also collected by these nuns unknowingly?

I wonder...

(*) I am referring to the nuns thoughts and actions

That's an interesting thought. I couldn't tell you the answer for sure, although I do think that motivation certainly plays a very large role in this - I don't think people like this think for even a moment that they actions would lead to the growth of Dorje Shugden in any way. The very act is to suppress the practice - the four completing factors are there when they break the statue, so in that way, i imagine, the demerit and negative karma gained from such an act would far outdo whatever small merit they might have from even touching the statue.

Then again, as someone has mentioned earlier, even seeing or doing anything in relations to an image, whether negative or positive, does plant imprints of Dharma in people's minds which can open up later for them to practice. This is different from merit though.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: Carpenter on January 26, 2012, 07:04:41 PM
All negative action collects negative karma regardless of end result is being positive or negative, more over now we are talking about destroying buddha’s statue / image, the amount of negative karma will be un-imaginable.

As per what Beggar said, whether negative or positive action towards an image, the dharma imprints will be planted, even though their negative karma will bring them to the lower realms, but the dharma imprints will not disappear, it will stay with them until many lifetimes (depends on the merits they have) later when someone / something triggered this imprints, then this person will be able to walk into the path of dharma again.

It all depends on our motivation when we commit to a negative action, if our motivation is to benefit others or to make dharma grow, then besides collecting negative karma, we also collect certain amount of merits, from this, it will help us to walk into the dharma path faster.

The above is what I remember, please correct if I’m wrong.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: Amitabha on January 26, 2012, 11:42:10 PM
according to scripture, both the nun and DL are damaging their own mind. the scripture advice is to be metta with yourself and others especially as ordained nun and monk in the monastic community that ought to be meditatively in metta bliss :D
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: michaela on January 27, 2012, 07:07:55 AM
My dear friends

Last month, I attended a talk by Ajahn Brahm - a well known Buddhist teacher from Perth Australia.  He told us a story about the 2005's incident when an American soldier flushed a copy of the koran down the toilet.  The incident caused international outrage.  When a reporter asked Ajahn Brahm about what will he do if this happened to Buddhist scriptures, he said, he will call a plumber.  That is the most sensible response I have heard from the religious leaders.  I think the same case can be applied related to this incident  ;D

Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: WisdomBeing on January 27, 2012, 10:26:19 AM
hi Michaela,

I love that story... I have heard that Ajahn Brahm is very down to earth and your story does confirm that. He IS a Londoner after all :)

Going back to the topic at hand.. I guess even though monks and nuns are ordained and have to keep their vows etc, there are many different levels of monks and nuns and some may not represent the Sangha well. In this case, the nuns were probably being overzealous in following the Dalai Lama’s instructions and their inner rather destructive selves surfaced in a non-sangha way. I wonder if their karma (from destroying a Buddha image) is less affected because they had followed the Dalai Lama’s instructions.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: michaela on January 27, 2012, 12:46:16 PM
Dear WisdomBeing

I think the heaviness of the karma of this nuns would depend very much on their motivation for executing this action.  Doing damage to DS statue in my opinion may not necessarily result in heavy bad karma if for example the motivation is that of students serving their guru's, to make DS more well known because this incident will be well recorded and attracted attention.  On the other hand if the motivation is negative (e.g., hatred), it will result in bad karma.

I think the above observation is consistent with the following video article of Samdhong Rinpoche:

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=8656 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=8656)

He temporarily give up DS and support the ban and the Dalai Lama because his Guru, Trijang Rinpoche asked him to do so.  So he has a strong Guru Devotion, and I don't think his motivation while working for Tibetan government in exile is bad at all.

Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: WisdomBeing on January 27, 2012, 01:14:44 PM
It is true that motivation determines the resulting karma. For the nuns, I guess we can never guess what their real motivation is. Whether it was to simply follow instructions with regret in their hearts or that they actually enjoyed desecrating the statue. Also it would make a difference if they thought that Dorje Shugden was really enlightened or not. If they thought Dorje Shugden was enlightened yet desecrated the statue, the karma would be heavier than if they believed Dorje Shugden was a spirit.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: triesa on January 27, 2012, 03:15:03 PM
My dear friends

Last month, I attended a talk by Ajahn Brahm - a well known Buddhist teacher from Perth Australia.  He told us a story about the 2005's incident when an American soldier flushed a copy of the koran down the toilet.  The incident caused international outrage.  When a reporter asked Ajahn Brahm about what will he do if this happened to Buddhist scriptures, he said, he will call a plumber.  That is the most sensible response I have heard from the religious leaders.  I think the same case can be applied related to this incident  ;D

Great beings like Ajahn Brahm would answer a "seemingly" provocative question in the most " simple and sensible" answer. We definitely can learn so much from this, Ajahn Brahm sees the incident as it is, his toilet would be blocked and he needs a plumber to solve the problem. If this question was asked to a another person, very likely the answer would be revolving issues like no respect of other religion, one should not be handling holy scripture in a disrespectful way, etc, etc.

If we abide to freedom of human rights and freedom of expression, then the American soldier and the nuns in the monastery were both expressing their feelings.  As they were expressing their emotions through their actions, we outsiders will then apply our own experience and culture to judge the actions of the American soldier or the nuns.

I wonder what would we say on the actions of the nuns destroying the DS statue, if we were Ajahn Brahm??

 

Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: Zhalmed Pawo on January 27, 2012, 04:36:47 PM
Sorry to nitpick here as well, but the "nuns" in question are not nuns. They are female householders.

All vinayaesque ordained (as opposed to tantresque ordained) Tibetans are ordained by the Sarvastivada system, and in that system, no lineage of nuns were transmitted into Tibet from India. Therefore there are no Sarvstivada Nuns, or no "Tibetan nuns".

They might be worthy practitioners, or worthy shugden-bashers, but nuns they are not. They might be afforded the status of being a nun, by their supporting communities, but there is no point in holding them up to the Vinaya as that has nothing to do with them, their being householders.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: DharmaSpace on January 27, 2012, 05:01:04 PM
Quote
The August 2007 International Congress on Buddhist Women's Role in the Sangha, with the support of H. H. XIVth Dalai Lama, reinstated the Gelongma (Dharmaguptaka vinaya bhikkhuni) lineage, having been lost, in India and Tibet, for centuries. Gelongma ordination requires the presence of ten fully ordained people keeping exactly the same vows. Because ten nuns are required in order to ordain a new one, the effort to establish the Dharmaguptaka bhikkhu tradition has taken a long time.
It is permissible for a Tibetan nun to receive bhikkhuni ordination from another living tradition, e.g. in Vietnam. Based on this, Western nuns ordained in Tibetan tradition, like Thubten Chodron, took full ordination in another tradition.
The ordination of monks and nuns in Tibetan Buddhism distinguishes three stages rabjung-ma, getshül-ma and gelong-ma. The clothes of the nuns in Tibet are basically the same as those of monks, but there are differences between novice and gelong robes.

You can have nuns right?

Well if they broke a few vows and hold the rest they are still a lot more vows than the most of us. So I wouldn't be so easy to criticise them. 


Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: michaela on January 28, 2012, 12:01:36 AM
Dear Triesa

I suppose, if we were Ajahn Brahm. We would have said that we would call someone to clean the mess left by the nuns hahaha...  8)

I love Ajahn Brahm, although he came from a different Buddhist tradition.  He sticks his effort to what really matters.  For example, he went against his own tradition and ordained nuns because in the Buddhist teachings there are nothing against ordaining nuns.  Not to mention his teachings are very entertaining and full of great contents

So is Master Cheng Yen from Tzu Chi - also from another Buddhist tradition.  She does not respond to her critiques much because she said she does not have time - she preoccupies herself with things that are really matters.




 
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: Gabby Potter on April 05, 2015, 11:11:07 PM
Oh dear, I'm at shocked! How could sanghas do this? By them doing this, it has shown that they did not hold their practise well I'm sorry to say this. What did Lord Dorje Shugden ever do to them? What DID HE DO? Nothing but to help and benefit the world.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: angelica on April 06, 2015, 04:00:52 PM
Whether nun or not nun, they have no right to destroy the DS statue. As a Buddhist, they should have respect for others and the freedom to choose one's religion. The act of the nuns have disgrace the HHDL. Dalai Lama ban the practice, but supporters of HHDL destroyed DS practitioner's property, caused harm and suffering to others. Where is the peace a Buddhist searching for? Where is the love and compassion of a Buddhist? If this continue, how many more times we wish to go through rebirth and stay in samsara? We don't have much time.  HHDL, please seriously consider lifting the ban ASAP, so that DS practitioners can do their practice in peace and with no fear.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: psylotripitaka on April 06, 2015, 05:42:52 PM
They can and do act this way, but according to many people in this forum 'such things are ok because it makes Dorje Shugden internationally popular and is the skillful means of Buddha Chenrezig'.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: rossoneri on April 07, 2015, 08:45:16 AM
I am sure the act of destroying is NOT a teaching by the Buddha. Moreover it is a holy object simply because the HHTDL have ban the practice of Dorje Shugden which whatever His reason might be we as a Buddhist who supposed to understand the Middle Way and should not behaving in this uncivilized manner.

As a Buddhist even we do not agree with the others faith or believe we should not or do not act in this ugly manner.
Title: Re: CAN ORDAINED NUNS ACT THIS WAY?
Post by: grandmapele on April 07, 2015, 09:39:13 AM
Sounds like the nuns were more bent on pleasing the Dalai Lama than thinking and acting along the guidelines of the dharma. Om mani padme hum