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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: Big Uncle on July 26, 2011, 04:07:30 AM

Title: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Big Uncle on July 26, 2011, 04:07:30 AM
I have not read much about vegetarianism in Buddhism. I don't recall that the Buddha was ever vegetarian and I don't think it is even part of the Vinaya (monk code of conduct). I know there are some Buddhists who are vegetarian, there are some Buddhists who are Vegan and there are some who eat meat. So is it an essential, recommended or unnecessary practice?

In the practice of Tantra, the lower Tantric practices require initiates who are about to receive a particular empowerment to refrain from the 5 black foods including meat. However, in Higher Tantric empowerments, there is no such restrictions. Then, there is the Tantric Tsoks (Ritual Feasts of a particular Yidam) that one have to perform every fortnightly after receiving higher Tantric initiations. This ritual includes partaking of meat and alcohol.

The message seemed to be conflicting... Perhaps, I have not research well enough to conclude but maybe someone would like to comment on this?
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: KhedrubGyatso on July 26, 2011, 05:34:51 AM
I think  the advice of the Buddha ,re vegetarian,  is one of recommended practice rather than it being  essential or deemed unnecessary.
Although the first of the five precepts, is to refrain from intentional acts of killing, it does not address  eating meat ( animals that are already dead).Theravadan monks have choice to not eat any meat offered  in their alms round. In those parts of the world  where vegetarianism is impractical due to the environmental conditions vegetarian monks would have to decide : eat meat or starve.
The scriptures seem clear  that one may  receive, cook, and eat meat that either was freely offered by others, or that came from an animal who died of natural causes.
The Buddha did say that one should not specifically order animals to be killed for one's consumption, should not eat  meat that one is aware was slaughtered specially for oneself and eat  animals like cow which benefit humans. From this it does seem like buying meat from local butchers is ok as the animals were not killed with the purchaser in mind. But then again, the meat is  meant for /directed at meat eaters even though it may not be for any particular  person.We also end up with another issue, supporting a wronglivelihood - being a butcher/ or trading in meat is one of the  5 wrong livelihoods. I also hope to receive more inputS on this very interesting topic opened by BU.

I am happy to be vegetarian for the reason that my conscience do not agree with the thought that so many animals have to suffer slaughter for my eating pleasure esp when I have alternatives.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: KhedrubGyatso on July 27, 2011, 12:49:52 PM
The Buddha,  according to the Pali Canon, is not against eating meat ,even for monks. The scriptures  mentioned that he rejected Devadatta’s  suggestion to ban meat from the monks diet. On the other hand, the Buddha did  ban eating meat that was "seen, heard or suspected" to have been killed specifically for the benefit of monks. Lay people can also adopt this as guideline.
In the Lankavatara Sutra, the Buddha lists several reasons for not eating meat:
1. Present-day animals may have been one's kin in the past.
2. One's own parents and relatives may in a future life be born as an animal.
3. There is no logic in exempting the meat of some animals on customary grounds while not exempting all meat.
4. Meat is impure as it is always contaminated by body wastes.
5. The prospect of being killed spreads terror amongst animals.
6. All meat is nothing other than decaying flesh .
7. Meat eating makes the consumer to be cruel and sensual.
Above are the popular pro vege views. There are also the opposing vege views citing that in our interdependent eco world , eating vegetables also entails the sacrifice of many insects and animals albeit smaller ones. Another argument is that there is no causal link between eating meat to fill one’s stomach and  negative result of killing as the factor of intention is absent. When we eat meat, our intention is to eat and the object is not a living thing. If its about indirect killing, then the same argument will hold for vegetarians because farmers will have to kill many insects and pests when ploughing their fields, spraying weed killers , pesticides etc in order for us to have our vegetables. It seems  whatever arguments for and against apply to both sides. After all there is no perfection in samsara.
I guess the choice is still ours to make.  It is not about simply not to eat meat or go vege .It should be a conscientious decision.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Positive Change on July 27, 2011, 05:46:28 PM
I reckon the very fact that the motivation not to kill to feed ourselves is surely a compassionate act. However one might say, "but I did not kill the animal on my plate, am merely eating what was already dead!"... well someone did and if we eat that, are we not condoning the act? It is in my humble opinion wrong on many levels. What is really wrong is we able to delude ourselves into thinking there is nothing wrong buying a cling wrapped piece of dead animal from an air conditioned aisle in a supermarket. Yes I digress, but this is a very real issue that we have to live with every day of our lives. So yes, I do think being a vegetarian/vegetarianism is a Buddhist practice. A practice of compassion and making a decisive choice to not harm.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: kurava on July 28, 2011, 12:35:05 PM
When I visited Nepal sometime back, the tour guide who's a Hindu; explained that for the Hindus , animal sacrifice is to help the animal to collect merits since in its animal form the poor animal can't perform any virtuous action to collect merits.

I had also read in a book - The Spiritual Traveler (if I remember correctly), that some Buddhists claim eating meat is a way to help the animal killed for its meat to end its animal life and thereafter take a more fortunate rebirth.

The above two views sound bizarre to me. What do the rest think ?
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Tammy on July 28, 2011, 12:54:05 PM
I am a new-kid-on-the-block as far as Buddhism is concern and recently I have became a vegetarian.. my reason is really really simple - partaking meat contradicts to Buddha's teachings. If becoming a Buddhist and embarking in the path of spirituality to seek enlightenment is to HELP OTHER SENTIENT BEINGS, we should take the first step of not hurting and killing them.

 
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: dsiluvu on July 30, 2011, 05:02:32 PM
When I visited Nepal sometime back, the tour guide who's a Hindu; explained that for the Hindus , animal sacrifice is to help the animal to collect merits since in its animal form the poor animal can't perform any virtuous action to collect merits.

I had also read in a book - The Spiritual Traveler (if I remember correctly), that some Buddhists claim eating meat is a way to help the animal killed for its meat to end its animal life and thereafter take a more fortunate rebirth.

The above two views sound bizarre to me. What do the rest think ?


I personally feel Animal sacrifices in a religion or spiritual practice is very barbaric and even Buddha put a stop to this ancient tradition in India.

As for Buddhist I only ever heard from teachings that the meat partaken by the higher practising practitioners, Lamas and sagha like the Tantrikas who actually eat a little meat and because they self-generate themselves as their Yidam, say Yamantaka. It is the prayers that blesses the meat taken of that particular animal. But it does not justify us eating meat daily for our own pleasure and taste.

Definitely by eating meat will still collect  part of the negative karma and daily when we forget to do our purification practice it can multiply to be as much as we directly killing the animal. Hence better not eat it in the first place.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Big Uncle on July 30, 2011, 05:27:06 PM
When I visited Nepal sometime back, the tour guide who's a Hindu; explained that for the Hindus , animal sacrifice is to help the animal to collect merits since in its animal form the poor animal can't perform any virtuous action to collect merits.

I had also read in a book - The Spiritual Traveler (if I remember correctly), that some Buddhists claim eating meat is a way to help the animal killed for its meat to end its animal life and thereafter take a more fortunate rebirth.

The above two views sound bizarre to me. What do the rest think ?


Dear Kurava,

This is not bizarre, I think it is a very arrogant to think that we have the attainments of a Buddha to be able to benefit the animal by eating it. I certainly do not think we have that power as our spiritual practice is bare minimum, we don't even hold our vows properly, which reflects on our lukewarm motivation. Since our motivation is like that, how do we even bless the poor dead animal?

Some people overcome their guilt of eating meat by reciting Medicine Buddha mantra or the other mantra - Om Abhira Te Zara Soha. However, I think it is like cutting an animal up, then we stitch and nurse the animal back to health again so we can repeat the same process. There's no doubt the mantras do benefit the animals but doing that to the animals doesn't help our karma of eating the animal.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: dsiluvu on August 01, 2011, 09:35:28 PM
If we can't even be compassionate towards animals and although we are born in a place spoilt by choices and yet we still choose to eat dead corpse of another sentient being. Then that to me is truly not compassionate. We cannot be saying we are practising kindness and compassion and then go out and stuff ourselves with a piece of steak sorry.

It is definitely not hard to quit eating meat if you just put yourselves in those animal's you're eating shoes.

It is not a religious act, it is just an act of kindness from one being with another being.

http://www.earthlings.com/

 
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: WoselTenzin on August 03, 2011, 04:00:46 AM
Although being a vegetarian is not spelt out explicitly in Buddhism, it is only logical that if we practise the Buddha's teachings, being vegetarian should be part of the practice.  If we claim to practise kindness and compassion which is the core of Buddhist teachings but we eat meat pretending that the meat on our plate did not come from the suffering of another being, we are contradicting ourselves.

Of course being vegetarian per se does does make us all holy smoly or an epitome of compassion.  It all boils down to our motivation in becoming vegetarian.  However, as Buddhist especially if we are following the Mahayana path of wanting to free all sentient beings from sufferings and lead them to enlightenment, being vegetarian is in fact the very basics of our practice.

Not eating meat with the awareness that the meat we eat came from the pain and the suffering of another being is the preliminary of developing kindness and compassion.  Not eating meat with the thought for the person who actually kills to bring the meat to our plates is to have compassion for another being who will potentially commit more negative karma because of us eating meat. 

Whether we choose to be aware of the facts, eating meat is creating negative karma because harm is inflicted on other beings.

Therefore, if we are Buddhist and especially if we are following the Mahayana tradition, it only makes sense to be vegetarian. 
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: vajrastorm on August 26, 2011, 02:56:34 PM
I agree with WT that if we follow the Mahayana tradition. we will not eat meat. When we eat meat, we're eating the remains of our mother in a previous life. That mother being was killed to satisfy our appetite for meat. That being went through much pain and suffering before it died.

If we are Buddhists and we believe in Karma and we believe that all beings have been our mothers before, we will not eat meat. Buddha did say it was alright if the animal had died naturally. But I have not heard of animals being allowed to die naturally and then their meat consumed afterwards. Every day, innumerable animals are horrendously slaughtered for their meat. If people stopped eating meat, animals would not be killed as there would be no demand for the meat. Hence there is a direct correlation between the demand for meat and the killing of animals to satisfy this demand.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: pgdharma on August 28, 2011, 10:45:19 AM
As a Buddhist, we believe in reincarnation. If the present days animals have been our kins in the past, that means we are eating our kins from a previous life!

By not eating meat is an act of compassion irregardless of whether one is a Buddhist or not. When we understand how much pain and sufferings the animals had to go through to satisfy our palate,  we will definitely cut down or stop eating meat. There are many videos showing how animals are bred in unconducive environments, tortured and the fear they experienced before being killed. When we reflect on that, it will definitely give us the motivation to be a vegetarian.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: dsiluvu on August 30, 2011, 06:06:05 AM
I guess if we really did believe in reincarnation... most of us "Buddhist" would naturally adopt to vegetarian cos seeing the animal as our mother's, it would automatically turn us off. Well we could start with this visualisation when we go out to order our steaks?

But you are not Buddhist and is aware of the global harm the meat industry is causing as it produces the highest green house gasses... more then car fumes! Then perhaps we can think about saving our planet. Go google it and the stats will shock you.

On a global level it does not help. On an individual level it does not help.

Eating meat is not the way of the future from what I see. More education needs to be implemented and awareness created... should probably start from schools...educating the younger generation as they will be the future.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Aurore on September 13, 2011, 11:54:41 PM
Yes of course vegetarianism is a Buddhist practice. The core teaching of Buddhism is not to harm all sentient beings. We could be eating our mothers is the common saying. Killing another being for our taste buds is definitely not a spiritual act because animals do feel pain. In fact, we can collect negative karma from doing so even if we do not kill directly. Another person killing for our food is still indirect killing. There are monks who eat meat because it was offered up to them. However, an enlightened being who consume meat can actually bless the meat because an enlightened mind do not have attachments to taste as we do.

If being a vegetarian helps reduce the pain of an animal during our each meal, that is buddhist practice.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Klein on September 14, 2011, 09:23:10 PM
I have not read much about vegetarianism in Buddhism. I don't recall that the Buddha was ever vegetarian and I don't think it is even part of the Vinaya (monk code of conduct). I know there are some Buddhists who are vegetarian, there are some Buddhists who are Vegan and there are some who eat meat. So is it an essential, recommended or unnecessary practice?

In the practice of Tantra, the lower Tantric practices require initiates who are about to receive a particular empowerment to refrain from the 5 black foods including meat. However, in Higher Tantric empowerments, there is no such restrictions. Then, there is the Tantric Tsoks (Ritual Feasts of a particular Yidam) that one have to perform every fortnightly after receiving higher Tantric initiations. This ritual includes partaking of meat and alcohol.

The message seemed to be conflicting... Perhaps, I have not research well enough to conclude but maybe someone would like to comment on this?

It is not compulsory to be vegetarian as a Buddhist. However, since practising compassion is part of the Buddhist practice, it would make sense for us to promote non killing. In addition, we're praying to save all sentient beings. So why are we killing beings in the animal realm just to satisfy our senses? We can still be healthy when we do not eat meat. So is eating meat then an act of compassion?
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: dorjedakini on September 14, 2011, 10:48:11 PM
Yes of course vegetarianism is a Buddhist practice. The core teaching of Buddhism is not to harm all sentient beings....

I agree, focus on the pain another beings have to suffer just to pleased our taste bud, and how these animals are once out mother. When i started to cut down meat in my diet, i always think that I'm eating my CURRENT life's mother's meat. It makes me feel very bad and eventually i stop eating meat.

Being Vegetarian we are not just being compassionate to the animals and also to ourselves. if we can't think of others for now, then think of how all the meats will effect our health.

i just do not feel right reciting Dorje Shugden's mantra and at the same time eat meat....
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: ratanasutra on September 14, 2011, 11:46:28 PM
one of Buddha teaching is to not killing which apply into a basic vows for lay man ie refuge vows, 5 precepts and 8 percepts.

which mean indirectly is for us to become a vegetarian, how to hold the vow of not killing if we still eat meat. it doesn't matter that we are not the person who order and kill that particular animal to get meat to eat, indirectly we are kill somebody.

well.. it just a matter of  we want to accept this point or use to be an excuse that we just eat and we don't kill.

Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: kris on September 16, 2011, 08:12:13 AM
I read somewhere, can't remember where though :P, it is not a vows for Buddhists to refrain from meat.

However, on the other hand, when we see the animals suffer in the bad conditioned farms, and that suffer just before they are slaughtered, we should develop compassionate towards them and therefore should refrain from meat.

For me, giving up meat is more of a letting go of my attachment... and it has been a good training for me so far :)
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Aurore on September 19, 2011, 10:27:21 PM
I read somewhere, can't remember where though :P, it is not a vows for Buddhists to refrain from meat.

It's not part of the Buddhist vows to refrain from meat, but it is the Buddhist vow not to kill and killing is the heaviest karma of all. Eating meat constitute to killing another being even if it's not directly. When we eat meat, we create the market for people to kill for our dinner.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: samayakeeper on September 20, 2011, 02:43:38 PM
I was brought up in a family who are non-vegetarians. Now as a practicing Buddhist, I choose non-meat food.

Eating or not eating meat is a personal choice. One does not have to be a Buddhist to be vegetarian. There are many reasons why a person goes vegetarian.  It may be for spiritual reason, compassion, health etc. Some people, who cannot bear to see, hear or read of animals being slaughtered for its meat, organ, fur, bone, horn, etc. may not be Buddhists. Being a Buddhist and vegetarian does not mean the person is compassionate.

There are some vegetarians who make uncalled comments when they see others partake in meat. But these vegetarians forgot that they were once meat eaters.

For Buddhists, who aspire to gain Bodhicitta, not eating meat is one of the main practices.
For the health conscious, not eating meat may mean less clogged arteries.
For animal lovers, not eating meat may mean, less animals will be mercilessly slaughtered. Less demand equals less killing.
For meat lovers, please go for regular health check-up.

Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Barzin on September 21, 2011, 11:48:44 AM
Practice not to kill - indirectly or directly, practice of letting go one's attachment, practice of compassion, practice of mindfulness, practice of holding one's vow; all these can be seen as practices in Buddhism.  These can be applied in vegetarianism too.  Actually, personally I don't so it is so much about the meat but it is definitely a practice for Buddhist practitioner.

As a Buddhist, every small little thing in life should be our practice.  It's not just for the obvious, it too can be to other objects.  Hence, it is definitely most beneficial when it comes to contemplation and meditation.

Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: dorjedakini on September 21, 2011, 05:04:47 PM
Practice not to kill - indirectly or directly, practice of letting go one's attachment, practice of compassion, practice of mindfulness, practice of holding one's vow; all these can be seen as practices in Buddhism. 

All of these are to clear the 3 poisons which are ignorance, desire and hatred. Not killing and not eating meat is to encounter all the above. Media of modern days make us feel that eating meats is a cool things and it is a must, if we do not try steak from XXX restaurant, we are will be left behind.....it is so twisted and not true.

Everyone who believe in Buddha and Dorje Shugden must be vegetarian, as their true nature is not to harm others.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: hope rainbow on September 22, 2011, 07:42:44 AM
It is not compulsory to be vegetarian as a Buddhist. However, since practising compassion is part of the Buddhist practice, it would make sense for us to promote non killing. In addition, we're praying to save all sentient beings. So why are we killing beings in the animal realm just to satisfy our senses? We can still be healthy when we do not eat meat. So is eating meat then an act of compassion?

Indeed, how can we wish for all sentient beings to be free from sufferings and then barbecue and eat these sentient beings...
Uuuuhhhh....
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: WisdomBeing on November 12, 2011, 06:52:34 PM
I've been vegetarian long before I learned about Buddhism and it's never been an issue for me. I'm glad that being vegetarian can be seen as a Buddhist practice though i can imagine that for those who like their fish and chips, it could challenge their whole being! For us Buddhists, i thought it's about fighting our attachments, so why be so attached to our meals? I know that some Tibetan monks do eat meat, but other Tibetan monks don't, so why be selective and follow the meat eating ones? There are many more reasons not to eat meat than to eat it... the biggest, in my opinion, is our own attachment. So perhaps if you're still eating meat, you should contemplate why.

Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: dondrup on November 13, 2011, 06:11:04 PM
... So is it an essential, recommended or unnecessary practice?

This is subjective because it very much depends on the personality of the person concerned.  Buddhists practise compassion and non-harming by refraining from eating meat. But being vegetarian does not totally prevent the karma of killing from arising. The very act of farming the crops that vegetarians derive their food from is indirectly causing harm to insects and other sentient beings living in the soil where the crops are grown.

What is our intention of eating meat? There are so many varieties of food available to choose from other than meat.  Is it to satisfy our desire or taste of meat? There are alternative forms of meat – the vegetarian “meat” made of soya that tastes like the real meat.  Hence, it is merely a matter of acquired taste.  It is also a matter of attachment to eating meat.

Is it Essential?
For some it is essential to consume meat and for others it is essential to abstain from meat for medical and health reasons.

Is it recommended?
If we practise non-harming or compassion for animals, then it is recommended to reduce meat consumption or to become full vegetarian.

Is it unnecessary?
Perhaps this applies only to sentient beings of the formless realms!  :)
 
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Galen on November 29, 2011, 05:15:04 PM
I do agree with Klein that if we are Buddhist, then the act of compassion is to not kill and eat animals and that includes meat which are not directly killed by oneself. It is not compulsory to be vegetarian but Buddhist also emphasize on non-attachment. So why are we attached to our meat and the will of wanting to eat meat?

I became a vegetarian 11 months ago and till now I have had minimal to none cravings for meat. I do miss it sometimes but I know the reason why I became vegetarian. And that is the biggest motivation for me to keep my vows. By keeping the vows, it generates merits which I can dedicate to all sentient beings to alleviate their suffering.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: negra orquida on March 15, 2012, 05:43:50 PM
I found this article in this website on the interview with His Holiness the 101st Gaden Tripa Lungrik Namgyal.  Among the responses to many questions, there was a question on vegetarianism and Buddhism.  His response was this:

Quote
It has been suggested that cultivating crops kill untold numbers of insects whilst the slaughtering of only one yak in old Tibet can feed the whole family for a week. Therefore, from the numerical point of view, this group of people suggests that we should consume meat of big-size animals rather than eating vegetables which inevitably entail the death of countless creatures. Moreover, some masters have insisted on vegetarianism as compulsory for a Buddhist whilst others quoted Buddhist texts to the contrary. 

In general, Lord Buddha has taught 3 differing points with regard to vegetarianism. In the first one, in the Theravada tradition, it is taught that we cannot take the so-called three categories of “Impure Meat”: a) we perceive through our eyes or ears the killing of the meat; b) we suspect that the meat is killed for ourselves; c) we know that the meat has been killed for us. Besides these 3 categories of meat, we are permitted to partake of the rest.

In the second one, in the Mahayana tradition, it is taught explicitly that the taking meat is necessarily unskillful and wrong. So vegetarianism is compulsory here. In the third, in the Vajrayana tradition, it is taught that practitioners of this path should take meat. The reason for this is given in the texts and requires extensive explanations. It is not appropriate for me to elaborate here. Students of Buddhism can choose to follow any of these 3 points. It is not possible for me to dictate which points students should follow.

Based on what I understand of Buddhism, Buddhism is a very adaptive and evolving religion.  And in particular the Vajrayana tradition, many "unconventional" methods are used to teach the practitioners.  Even our diet can be used as a tool to practice.   So from what i gather from what is said above, the requirement to be vegetarian or not is not "imposed" across the board for all Buddhists practitioners.  It depends on the practitioner's level of training and realisations.  Just like how it is a transgression of sangha vows if a (newbie) monk drinks alcohol or have sexual relations, however highly attained lamas may drink alcohol or take on a consort.

Hence, eating vegetarian / meat could be a practice in itself. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that partaking meat is a practice to realise emptiness.  However for us lay practitioners, at least for me, I would go for the vegetarian option as I am still at the newbiest of newbie level and I don't understand the emptiness teachings.  Since I know what really happens before the meat finally arrives on a plate in front of me, at least I can practice some compassion by not eating meat and contribute to the demand for the mass slaughtering of animals.

Also, if our Guru had strongly advised us to adopt vegetarianism, we should follow the Guru's instruction until told to do otherwise.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: negra orquida on March 15, 2012, 05:46:15 PM
The link to the interview mentioned in my earlier post is here:

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12258 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12258)
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: negra orquida on March 15, 2012, 05:58:06 PM
Would also like to add that being vegetarian is not just showing compassion to the animals, but also to the people who kill these animals for a living.  If we would not kill an animal because we know of the karmic consequences arising from such action, how could we get someone else to do the killing for us? This would be similar to the story in the Lamrim of how some monks got a butcher to kill a goat, cow and chicken (?) for their meal.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: DSFriend on March 17, 2012, 03:32:32 AM
I'm a Buddhist and am Vegetarian.  I find it beneficial to view it as compassionate practice for human kind.

The question to answer is what is it we wish to achieve through vegetarianism. Is it to lessen sufferings of animals? Is it to promote buddhism? Is it to cultivate compassionate thoughts of people in our community?

If i encourage my non-buddhist friends to be vegetarian by saying Vegetarianism is a buddhist practice, then they may not connect with it and may even be put off. But if the people in the community i live in can connect with lessening the sufferings of animals, then it is very good. Be it under a religious banner or not, doesn't matter to me.

Then by they knowing that you are a Buddhist and is a vegetarian, they will connect the dots in their minds that Buddhism teaches compassion and Buddhists live it.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: RedLantern on March 17, 2012, 05:56:32 AM
Not all Buddhiist are vegetarians and the attitudes about vegetarianism vary from sect to sect as well as from
individual to individual.Buddhist refrain from eating meat out of loving kindness for living animals.
I'm a Buddhist and vegetarian too,and being vegetarian makes me aware of the sufferings of these animals.
The Buddha states that "the eating of meat extinguishes the seed of great compassion"thus this shows that the Buddha weigh strongly in favor of vegetarianism.
To refrain from eating meat,lessen our attachment and to practice compassion which is what Buddhism is all about.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Jessie Fong on March 17, 2012, 07:36:01 AM
My late maternal grandmother abstained from eating eat on days that she went to the temple to make prayers.  And she never ate beef - she told us it was because when she was small, she came across a cow that was being led to be slaughtered.  The crying sound that came from the cow tugged at her heart strings and she vowed to never eat beef.

She was a very simple lady, uneducated but she was very pious when it came to her ritual of going to the temple to pray.  My parents did not inculcate in us the need to be vegetarian so we all grew up eating that was cooked.

Since not all Buddhists are vegetarians, it becomes a personal choice to be vegetarian but if we truly want to see less sufferings for those animals, then we should slowly cut off meat from our meals, if we cannot switch to be a vegetarian immediately.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Tammy on March 18, 2012, 10:44:53 AM
When I visited Nepal sometime back, the tour guide who's a Hindu; explained that for the Hindus , animal sacrifice is to help the animal to collect merits since in its animal form the poor animal can't perform any virtuous action to collect merits.

I had also read in a book - The Spiritual Traveler (if I remember correctly), that some Buddhists claim eating meat is a way to help the animal killed for its meat to end its animal life and thereafter take a more fortunate rebirth.

The above two views sound bizarre to me. What do the rest think ?

Dear Kurava,

Sounds to me like an extremely lean excuse for eating meat !!
There are many ways we as intelligent human beings can do to help animals gain merits for better rebirths, e.g. Chant Mantra and blow onto them, put them on vegetarian diet (possible but very difficult), etc.. But eating them and making them the sacrifices for ritual? I am really sorry I can agree with that..
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: sonamdhargey on March 18, 2012, 11:05:43 AM
Being vegetarian is an act of compassion. Being a vegetarian is making a decision of non killing by not being the cause of death of that particular animal directly or indirectly. Some people justify that the animal is already dead so why waste it by not eating them? after all I didn't kill them. I just buy them of the shelf of a supermarket. Then justify if there is no demand, should there be supply? Other people killing and butchering to make a living to put those meat on your table. Eating meat itself creates a negative chain reaction, the industry of meaningless killing to satisfy our taste buds. The human body does not need meat to be healthy however eating meat is harmful to the human body.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Midakpa on March 25, 2012, 08:04:27 AM
Devadatta made 5 proposals concerning the bhikkhu's life to the Buddha. All 5 were rejected. One of these was for monks to adhere to a vegetarian diet. Why did the Buddha reject the practice of vegetarianism? It is because vegetarianism is not conducive to the bhikkhu's life which is characterised by the following:

1. Alms-beggar: The bhikkhu is not allowed to ask for anything. He has to accept whatever food is offered (except for human, elephant, horse, dog, snake, lion, tiger, panther, bear, hyena) if the meat is pure in three respects as already mentioned by KG.
2. Homeless life:  The Buddha encouraged his monks to wander "for the blessing of the many folk, for the happiness of the many folk, out of compassion for the world."
3. Seclusion: The Buddha discouraged monastic community life for a monk seeking his own salvation.
4. Eating one meal a day before noon: This meant that the food had to be nourishing and nutritious in order to sustain the bhikkhu for 24 hours, bearing in mind the Buddha taught his disciples to sleep from 10pm to 2am (the 2nd watch of the night). An alms-beggar would not normally expect to get good quality food. To restrict oneself to a vegetarian diet would cause even more problems.
5. Life of poverty: A Bhikkhu is not allowed to possess money, etc. Thus he would not be in a position to buy good food or medicine by himself.
6. Uposatha ceremony: This is a forthnightly recitation of the precepts to ensure that the bhikkhus adhere to the life-style of bhikkhus as taught by the Buddha. (Later, the Chinese bhikkhus broke the practice of alms-begging by planting their own vegetables and could therefore become vegetarians.)

Some Buddhists argue that vegetarianism is not connected with the holy life which is concerned with the eradication of defilements. Some sects practice a very strict vegetarian diet, not allowing even  foods like dairy products, nuts and fruits. If  one's spiritual attainments were connected to the food we eat, then these practitioners would have surpassed the Buddhists. But according to the Buddha, it is only in Buddhism that the first, second, third and fourth stage Arahats are found.

Various sects tried to ridicule the Buddha for his non-vegetarian practice. The Buddha defended himself by quoting the Amagandha Sutra spoken by the previous Buddha Kasyapa. Buddha Kasyapa was a Brahmin by birth and was thus a vegetarian but upon attaining Buddhahood, he stopped his vegetarian habit. He replied to criticisms by saying that the "dirt" was in the defilements of our mind, not in the food we eat.

(N.B. Most of the above information is taken from Bhikkhu Hye Dhammavuddho"s "Return to the Original Buddha Teachings" (1988).
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: sonamdhargey on March 25, 2012, 09:31:52 AM
When I visited Nepal sometime back, the tour guide who's a Hindu; explained that for the Hindus , animal sacrifice is to help the animal to collect merits since in its animal form the poor animal can't perform any virtuous action to collect merits.

I had also read in a book - The Spiritual Traveler (if I remember correctly), that some Buddhists claim eating meat is a way to help the animal killed for its meat to end its animal life and thereafter take a more fortunate rebirth.

The above two views sound bizarre to me. What do the rest think ?


Dear Kurava,

This is not bizarre, I think it is a very arrogant to think that we have the attainments of a Buddha to be able to benefit the animal by eating it. I certainly do not think we have that power as our spiritual practice is bare minimum, we don't even hold our vows properly, which reflects on our lukewarm motivation. Since our motivation is like that, how do we even bless the poor dead animal?

Some people overcome their guilt of eating meat by reciting Medicine Buddha mantra or the other mantra - Om Abhira Te Zara Soha. However, I think it is like cutting an animal up, then we stitch and nurse the animal back to health again so we can repeat the same process. There's no doubt the mantras do benefit the animals but doing that to the animals doesn't help our karma of eating the animal.

Dear Big Uncle,

Agreed. It is just like fishing game. People go fishing and to overcome their guilt, when the fish are caught they unhook the fish and let it go. All this in the name of leisure and further enforcing their actions to participate in this game. What they didn't realized is that the fish do suffer. But at least it is not killed. However when they have lunch or dinner they order fish to eat and it is really contradicting. So what is the point of compassion fishing and after that eat fish in the restaurant? An act of compassion is compassion. There are no 2 ways about it.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: buddhalovely on March 26, 2012, 07:18:38 AM
Being a vegetarian when your a buddhist is not mandatory but it is highly encouraged. It helps motivate our undying love for all sentient beings especially animals as they do not have a choice on how they should live their lives. It is an act of compassion though it depends on ones requirements. For example, pregnant women and children are not recommended to take vegetarian meals as it can cause damage to the body system. Sometimes, being a vegetarian could leas a person to have less nutrients than what they have existing because of health issues since birth.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: bambi on March 29, 2012, 05:55:22 AM
In Buddhism point of view, I think majority of us choose vegetarianism because of love and compassion of not killing animals. I can imagine how painful and scary to be slit and hung up for the blood to be drained. Struggling to breath and looking at your innards hanging out of your body!

I have friends who are vegetarians because it is healthier for their body and they feel 'lighter' not eating meat.

And not to forget the damage of global warming. How can we be selfish knowing the threat it will post for future generations? What about the children? The people who will still be here after we are gone?
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: rossoneri on March 30, 2012, 08:14:03 AM
In Buddhism it is not compulsory one have to be a vegetarian but buddhism encourage one to be a vegetarian. Especially now we have so much options and choices of food available conveniently almost everywhere. We do not kill and we also practices compassion. So why are we telling the world about how profoundly we hold our vows and yet we still consume meat/ life?

And if Buddha did had some meat, it is not for Himself. With the correct motivation, it's for Him to continue his journey to turn the wheel of Dharma. Not like most of us, mainly for self pleasured. I think the meat will collect so much merits or whatever it is before being slaughtered just to be taken by Buddha Himself. It'll be blessed tremendously. Moreover, those days Buddha do not have the luxury of convenient stores everywhere.

Put spiritual aside I think being a vegetarian is healthier. Plus we have convenient stores everywhere at anytime.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: pgdharma on March 30, 2012, 03:07:56 PM
I think it is better to recite mantras on the animals and  set them free instead of killing them with the excuse of helping them take a better rebirth.  For lay people, if we do not hold our vows well or our motivation is not strong, I don't think our mantras will be strong enough to help the animals of a better rebirth.
 
All animals are living beings irrespective of whether they are bred as food or kept as pet. If we say we are animal lovers, that we keep dogs and cats as pets than we should not be eating animals at all. When we reflect on how the animals are killed for our consumption, it will definitely make us think twice before we gobble up the meat.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: ilikeshugden on March 31, 2012, 12:02:24 AM
Me being vegetarian was purely not because of religious views. I just cannot bear to imagine animals suffering so much just to feed my unworthy stomach. I think that there are various reasons why should one not eat meat. For example, as said in the the Lankavatara Sutra, the Buddha says that, present-day animals may have been one's kin in the past ,one's own parents and relatives may in a future life be born as an animal, there is no logic in exempting the meat of some animals on customary grounds while not exempting all meat, meat is impure as it is always contaminated by body wastes, the prospect of being killed spreads terror amongst animals, all meat is nothing other than decaying flesh, meat eating makes the consumer to be cruel and sensual. I think that these reasons alone should be able to at least produce a shift in a person's mind stream when it comes to eating meat.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Carpenter on March 31, 2012, 03:52:44 PM
I think it is better to recite mantras on the animals and  set them free instead of killing them with the excuse of helping them take a better rebirth.  For lay people, if we do not hold our vows well or our motivation is not strong, I don't think our mantras will be strong enough to help the animals of a better rebirth.
 
All animals are living beings irrespective of whether they are bred as food or kept as pet. If we say we are animal lovers, that we keep dogs and cats as pets than we should not be eating animals at all. When we reflect on how the animals are killed for our consumption, it will definitely make us think twice before we gobble up the meat.

I agree, who are we to bless the animal? Even we hold vows strongly, are they good enough to give blessing to them by eating them? I think even monks are not confident enough to do so, more over us as lay people?

I do heard before that someone chant a few prayer, dedicate to the animal and eat it, what they told me is this animal already dead, it make no different whether we eat or not, instead of wasting it, it will be better for me to eat than other people eating it, at least i say a prayer for his better rebirth. The words sound good, but to me, this is just a covering that they wanted to eat meat.

On the non-buddhism aspect, I have found out that having meat heavily will also cause several disease, such as Heart disease, Insufficient Fiber Intake, etc. the research shown that Heavy reliance on meat as a food source can lower your overall fiber intake. Fiber is a type of carbohydrate that is found in plant-based foods but not meat. This nutrient is necessary for proper digestion and might help prevent constipation, according to the University of Maryland Medical Center. Fiber also might help lower serum cholesterol, triglyceride and glucose levels in diabetics. It also might reduce your risk of breast, prostate and cancer.

so not only spiritual side encourages, even non-spiritual side that is also no good for eating meat.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Rihanna on July 15, 2012, 01:56:52 PM
Vegetarianism is not necessarily a Buddhist practice. Buddha himself was not a vegetarian. I do not think it is documented in any sutras that one has to be vegetarian to be a Buddhist.

However, when you eat meat, you are indirectly responsible for killing a being. The same goes when you eat vegetables as the farmer has to spray insecticides so that the vegetables are not destroyed by pests. And then you have things like leather bags, leather belts, soap, shoes that are made from animals killed for that purpose. It is impossible to live in some ways without being responsible for indirect killing. That is why even by our sheer existence itself is suffering (The First Noble Truth) and each day we are collecting negative karma, directly and indirectly no matter how morally you live your life.

But as a being who strives to develop compassion, at the least, adopt as much indirect killing as possible. Animals can not verbally express their fear of being killed or the suffering conditions of modern industrial farming. So it is good that practitioners move towards vegetarianism and incorporate that into their spiritual quest.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: diamond girl on July 15, 2012, 03:18:17 PM
Without diversion from the spiritual aspect, I heard about this Blood Type Diet a while back and this thread reminded me of that. It seems that our blood type tells us what we should eat for our nutritional well being. For knowledge you can read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_diet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_diet)

My personal take on vegetarianism is compassionate eating. After watching Earthlings and the immense cruelty to animals to meet demand is when I viewed being vegetarian as an economical decision. I figured that if people reduced demand, the natural supply chain could cope and animals did not need to be killed in masses and also bred in such unnatural ways. The supply could be free roaming. This is when I started being vegetarian day by day. I did not go cold turkey but increasing days as weeks went by.

And when I shared my perspective on a supply/demand angle many friends followed me to my vegetarian dinners. One step at a time concept. 
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Positive Change on January 19, 2013, 07:09:15 AM
It was said that Hitler was vegetarian... Whether or not this can be proved or disproved is irrelevant at the moment. But let us for one moment assume he was, imagine how warped his whole perception was? He would refuse to kill animals but did not bat an eyelid when it came to other humans...

Here is an interesting read on this matter. It is an anylysis or a hypothesis even:

Food writer Bee Wilson is of the opinion that: "His distaste for meat knew no pity of animals." She went on to note that: "At mealtimes he often boasted - in graphic detail - of a slaughterhouse he had visited in Ukraine. It amused him to spoil carnivorous guests' appetites." This idea, however, is not supported by the BBC series The Nazis: a Warning from History. In this series an eyewitness account tells of Hitler watching movies (which he did very often). If ever a scene showed (even fictional) cruelty to or death of an animal, Hitler would cover his eyes and look away until someone alerted him the scene was over. The documentary also commented on the German animal welfare laws that the Nazis introduced, which were unparalleled at the time. The German psychoanalyst, Erich Fromm, believed that Hitler's vegetarianism was actually a means of atoning for the death of his half-niece Geli Raubal, as well as a means of proving to himself and others that he was incapable of killing.

On the other hand, author Rynn Berry, a vegetarian and animal rights advocate, maintains that although Hitler reduced the amount of meat in his diet, he never stopped eating meat completely for any significant length of time. Berry argues that many historians mistakenly use the term "vegetarian" to describe a "flexitarian" i.e. someone who simply reduces their meat consumption. This view is consistent with the actions of Hitler's physician, Theodor Morell, who from 1936 almost until Hitler's death by suicide in 1945, gave him "quack supplements" which contained animal components. Other injected preparations contained placenta, bovine testosterone and extracts containing seminal vesicles and prostate to combat depression. At the time, extracts from animal glands were popularly believed to be "elixirs of youth". Traudl Junge, who became Hitler's secretary in 1942, reported that he "always avoided meat" but that his Austrian cook Kruemel sometimes added a little animal broth or fat to his meals. "Mostly the Fuehrer would notice the attempt at deception, would get very annoyed and then get tummy ache," Junge said. "At the end he would only let Kruemel cook him clear soup and mashed potato." In addition, Marlene von Exner who became Hitler's dietician in 1943, reportedly added bone marrow to his soups without his knowledge because she "despised" his vegetarian diet.

Biographer Robert Payne, in his biography of Hitler, The Life and Death of Adolph Hitler (Praeger, 1973) theorizes that the image of Hitler as a vegetarian ascetic was deliberately fostered by propaganda minster Joseph Goebbels. In the book, The Mind of Adolf Hitler, it is said:

"If he (Hitler) does not eat meat, drink alcoholic beverages, or smoke, it is not due to the fact that he has some kind of inhibition or does it because he believes it will improve his health. He abstains from these because he is following the example of the great German, Richard Wagner, or because he has discovered that it increases his energy and endurance to such a degree that he can give much more of himself to the creation of the new German Reich."
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: apprenticehealer on January 19, 2013, 08:00:21 AM
I do not know if vegetarianism is a Buddhist practice or not, and if it is, is it compulsory. I do know that the Theravaden Buddhist do eat meat , it is choice that they have.

Buddhism believes in reincarnation and there is always the possibility that the piece of meat for your dinner is the flesh of one' own mother in a previous life.

There is a school of thought that when we eat meat, it takes longer for our food to digest because, not only are we consuming the flesh of a once living being, we are also ingesting the utter fear and trauma that the animal went through just before it was killed.
Our bodies need to 'clear' that fear away first, before working on digesting the food. Imagine how terrified that poor animal was before it was slaughtered and the energies of fear is imprinted into the very flesh we are swallowing into ourselves.
Sharks die a terrible death when their fins are cut off and then the still alive shark is thrown back into the sea. The shark eventually drowns as it does not have the fin to navigate around in the sea. This is supposed to be a delicacy but i am glad that people are being made more aware of the plight of the shark
and in some restaurants, it has been taken off the menu.

Vegetarianism stems from Compassion - a virtue that is one of the core of Buddhist teachings and the teachings of many other religions in the world.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: jessicajameson on January 19, 2013, 09:34:12 AM
@apprenticehealer

Vegetarianism is something that people adopt if they empathize towards animals, or if they believe in karma. If you believe in karma, you would have no choice but to stop eating animals. Any living being has once been our mother - how can we continue eating our mothers?

I agree with what you said, we don't just consume the flesh but the fear and trauma that the animal went through before it was killed. In countries where they eat dog meat, it is believed that the more the dog suffers before they die the tastier it'll be coz of the adrenaline that rushes through the body. How gross!

There are many monks and nuns who still eat meat, but it really is out of the lack of option. They live in high mountainous areas, or in remote areas and only only meat available to sustain themselves. There are also monks, like in Thailand, where the only source of food for them are via their begging bowl. It is also against their vows to reject any food from those who give. On a similar note, for high lamas, it is a blessing for the deceased animals if they ingest animals.

So if the question is "Is Vegetarianism a Buddhist practice?", I would have to reply yes - but with exceptions!
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Jessie Fong on January 19, 2013, 11:30:56 AM
Vegetarianism is all about abstaining from consumption of meat from our diet.

Many object to eating meat out of respect for sentient life.
Other motivations for vegetarianism are health-related, political, environmental, cultural, aesthetic or economic.


In Buddhism, the views on vegetarianism vary from school to school. According to Theravada, the Buddha allowed his monks to eat pork, chicken and beef if the animal was not killed for the purpose of providing food for monks. Theravada also believes that the Buddha allowed the monks to choose a vegetarian diet, but only prohibited against eating human, elephant, horse, dog, snake, lion, tiger, bear, leopard, and hyena flesh. The Buddha did not prohibit any kind of meat-eating for his lay followers.

from :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_vegetarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_vegetarianism)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Soy-whey-protein-diet.jpg/250px-Soy-whey-protein-diet.jpg)
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Tenzin Malgyur on January 20, 2013, 09:59:16 AM
Vegetarianism- A Buddhist practice? I would say it is. If one practices compassion for all beings, it would mean not creating a demand for animals to be slaughtered for consumption. In these modern day and time, there is so much more choice of food we can consume besides meat. Personally, I am opting to not eat meat after watching a video on how animals are breed in extreme bad condition for the sole purpose of being slaughtered for their meat. And to watch in horror the fear of the animals the moments before being slaughtered certainly stopped all the craving for eating any meat. :)
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: brian on January 20, 2013, 02:53:46 PM
The only reason why vegetarianism are practiced in Buddhism is because Buddhists do not kill another being. I have friend who are not meat eaters and they are not Buddhists either.for health reason or compassion reason, one should go for vegetarianism and of course vegetarianism is the practice of real Buddhism. We should never take another being's life to satisfy our own attachment for taste. I guess it is too selfish to do that and makes us look like animals.
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: Positive Change on January 20, 2013, 09:01:16 PM
Being vegetarian does not constitute being a good Buddhist however, if one is Buddhist and is a vegetarian it is important as it helps us develop true compassion for all sentient beings especially what we put into our stomachs to pleasure or taste buds. I believe eating meat does create negative karma for sure... however can anyone explain to me with no disrespect to HHDL or any other attained Lamas, why is it that they can eat meat and benefit the very being that they ingest?
Title: Re: Vegetarianism - A Buddhist practice?
Post by: psylotripitaka on January 21, 2013, 07:37:54 AM
As long as we remain in samsara, killing is unavoidable. Understanding this should increase our determination to abandon samsara; increase our bodhichitta; and thereby energize our efforts to realize the correct view of emptiness.

We would go mad trying to figure out how to completely avoid killing. Mainly, we need to abandon the intention to kill, and strive to minimize our relationship to killing. We kill by moving; by not moving; by eating; by not eating. Millions of living beings are killed in farming vegetables; millions are killed when one animal is slaughtered; the delivery planes and trucks kill many living beings delivering the food; we kill many living beings driving to the grocery store. You see? Samsara is the real problem here, and escape is the only way to really abandon killing or liberate others from suffering. Changing our intentions is the main practice.

Whether we are vegetarian or not, whether we purchase meat or vegetables, death has occurred so that we may have sustenance.

However, however, that said, it seems to me after much consideration over the years that with respect to eating, the best way to avoid killing or excessive deaths would be to only eat nuts, seeds, vegetables, and fruits that we grow in our own gardens, and to try to purchase products that have the least negative impact on mother living beings. If we take the time to do the research, we could come up with this kind of meal plan/diet, and following it would become second nature.

We do not need to eat meat. We also do not need to eat vegetables and fruits that have been farmed as it involves excessive killing. Anyone who's gone to the sink to wash a head of organically farmed lettuce will see how much suffering there is. Sometimes there are still many living beings crawling around on it or disabled in some way due to the processing!

Thanks to everyone for the wonderful posts. Time to realize emptiness eh!