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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: WoselTenzin on July 04, 2011, 05:01:45 AM
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At the outset of a Guru-Student relationship, the student must be very clear on why he/she has chosen to be in this relationship. From the side of a qualified Guru, there is really no problem as the Guru completely understands the responsibility of taking a student.
A real Guru will mirror your delusions and challenge your negative habituation all the way with wrath or whatever methods deem suitable to train you. A real Guru will say what you need to hear and not what you want to hear. A real Guru will give us assignments you need to do in order for you to purify your negative karma and transform your mind which may not necessarily be what you like to do. A real Guru is someone whom you hire to assassinate your ego. A real Guru will do whatever it takes to guide you to enlightenment.
The question is are you ready to receive the training?
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That is a very good question but it is not whether we are ready I think. It is really do we have the merit to take the Lamas instructions and put them into effect. Do we really want to transform our minds and how much do we want to change? When the Lamas steps up our training and puts us into a spot, do we run and hide? Are we the type to face our demons?
However, having said that, the Lama is also very skillful and would train others according to our level, capability and mental disposition. However, it is his responsibility to push our envelope so we develop our mind, endurance and fortitude for the Dharma in preparation for Tantra, in preparation for the most supreme methods to take us out of Samsara. How very fortunate to have a Lama...
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Meeting a guru in this age and time is rare, staying on with a guru who is here to skillfully help us is extremely hard as many of us will choose our own habituation to win rather then what the guru wants us to change.
I'm fortunate enough to meet and heard stories about guru and student disciple relationship. Majority of time, when students do not take the guru's training well is because they do not truly believe in death and rebirth thus they live for the moment.
Thus, if any of us who has their guru with them, please hold them dear as you never know whether you will have the chance/merits to meet them again in the future. I mean since we will not get enlightenment so soon, we might as well create the causes to receive teachings from them in our current and future life.
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Someone told me that in a Guru - Student relationship, it's the student that is in control. The Guru is like a fire and it's up to the student to decide how near one wants to be near to the fire. If one is too far, one can't feel the warmth of the fire; if too close, one might get burnt.
My Guru taught that the essence of Guru devotion is honesty from both sides.
Therefore, in choosing the distance one wishes to keep, one really needs to be totally honest with oneself . However, the distance one sets at the beginning needs not be fixed. As one's spiritual practice progresses, one can draws nearer to the "fire" until one can get direct teaching from the Guru.
Whether we are ready or not really depends on our merits. If we choose not to go nearer can mean we don't have the merits.
It's like Buddha is among us and we say we are NOT READY yet ???
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Whether. we are ready or not to receive direct training from a qualified Spiritual Guide, depends really on our perception of him. If we view him as merely an ordinary human being like us, we will see him through the mirror of our ordinary deluded mind,and will not be able to take his wrathful methods in training us.
If, on the other hand, we can see him as a Buddha(indeed, as the Lamrim says, he is an emanation of a Buddha),and hold that view of him in strong faith and trust, then we are ready for his methods of training us(even if that includes his ignoring us or ridiculing us). We will then see the great compassion behind all his actions.
Even if we lack the merits to see him as a Buddha, we can (as the Lamrim says) train ourselves to see him as one. We begin by focusing on his good qualities. I also wish to add here that we should also focus on his kindness to us and to all his students, in fact to all beings near and far.
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A real Guru will give us assignments you need to do in order for you to purify your negative karma and transform your mind which may not necessarily be what you like to do. A real Guru is someone whom you hire to assassinate your ego. A real Guru will do whatever it takes to guide you to enlightenment.
The question is are you ready to receive the training?
I remember reading stories of mahasiddas such as Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche and Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche when i first started out my spiritual path in Tibetan Buddhism. I loved the stories and thought how amazing, how fortunate those students receive life transforming experiences..oh and what an adventure with so many twists and turns...to the point that the students' lives were turned "upside down"... but since we are all in samsara, perhaps the right view would be the students' lives were turned "right side up"
I suppose reading about other people's heroic, courageous experiences are always so engaging and inspirational... until I started to experience for myself what it feels like from these life transforming experiences.
The qualified guru knows his students ailments so well, just like a skillful doctor, he/she knows what and how to administer "treatment". What do you expect the doctor to do if the patient has a gangrene limb. The limb has to be cut off even if it will inflict a lot of pain, but the intention is to heal.
Because of our aversion to anything that is deemed not pleasurable, overwhelmed by ignorance, it does require faith and loads of merits to be on the vajrayana path which emphasizes guru devotion/reliance on the Guru.
When we think about the precious human life, how much time do we have and will we have the conditions again...then the answer to your question is clearly yes.
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i heard my friend mentioned it before, how he wished he could be in a monastery to learn dharma and go through training by his guru rather than in Samsara as it is so much harder with so much distractions. I guess it is not necessary easier or harder as the Lama will have skillful methods to train a student customized to his/her level whether in Monastery or in samsara. Due to our attachments and wrong views, many might seemed contradictory or unreasonable when a guru give you assignments...
So a student must understand what this relationship is all about. Many are "spiritual shopping" for a guru but have very little knowledge about this guru disciple relationship. Many just want blessing and took refuge without having understanding the meaning behind guru devotion. I guess only upon understanding guru devotion and fully surrender to your guru then only you are ready to receive direct training from your guru.
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We should be frank and check our own mind whether we are ready to embark on the spiritual path. If our mind is not steady, then it's more the reason to receive direct training from a Qualified Guru. We must want to improve and change our mindset, I guess that's what spirituality is about. If not, the deeds that we will do may not be virtuous or of benefit to others.
We must be ready to go through changes, changes that may be daunting because of the bad habits we have created by us in this and previous lives. Also, we got to have the conviction that we want to be less angry, be more humble and believe in karma. Happiness then follows.
The guru is the well of nectar. It's up to us if we want to partake in the nectar. Are we that thirsty?
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Meeting a guru in this age and time is rare, staying on with a guru who is here to skillfully help us is extremely hard as many of us will choose our own habituation to win rather then what the guru wants us to change.
I'm fortunate enough to meet and heard stories about guru and student disciple relationship. Majority of time, when students do not take the guru's training well is because they do not truly believe in death and rebirth thus they live for the moment.
Thus, if any of us who has their guru with them, please hold them dear as you never know whether you will have the chance/merits to meet them again in the future. I mean since we will not get enlightenment so soon, we might as well create the causes to receive teachings from them in our current and future life.
If one contemplates on the above and think: To be in this opportune conditions to be able to practice (human life) is indeed a blessing and probably stems from our past life merits. However to have these opportune conditions AND find a Guru on top of this is really beyond words or explanations...
Hence such a rare "chance" should not be wasted purely on experiencing this life but concentrating on creating the best possible conditions for our future lives in order to keep getting one step closer to ultimately breaking free from having to go through this over and over again.
And the beauty of practicing in order to get us "there" is, to actually stop thinking of just ourselves and focus on others. And at one point we will realise that once we do achieve that state of mind, we are "released" from the very thing that keeps us in this cycle. This is how in my limited understanding I find the strength to transform my very selfish mind.
So to answer the question "are you ready to receive direct training from a qualified Guru?", I feel even though we "think" we are not, the fact that we find or stumble upon a qualified Guru, is a very clear indication that we ARE and we should not let this rare opportunity slip by.
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In this degenerating age, we need a lot of merits to be able to meet a Guru. When we have this opportunity we should not let it go to waste but be ready to receive direct teachings from this qualified Guru who will skilfully help and guide us to enlightenment. We have to check ourselves. Are we ready for this challenge which will benefit us so much in this life and future lives.If the answer is yes than do not let this precious opportunity slip by. I am very fortunate to have met my Guru who has patiently guided me through these years. :)
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Whether you are ready to receiving the training pretty much depend on how much you want!
How much you want it is depend on how much you believe in the Lama.
But of course it's still depend on your merit to be able to meet one. In this case I'll assume the Lama is here with us or else whether we are ready or not doesn't make any different.
Coming back on the question on how much we believe the Lama, to me personally is equivalent to how much faith you have with him.
If you believe in the Lama and you know whatever the Lama does is always for your benefit, you will carry out all the task or instruction given. Even sometimes you might think that it is impossible to do but the Lama will not ask you to do something that you are unable to carry out.
The Lama is very skillful Guru. We also have to put away our perception on how a Guru supposed to teach because we see our Guru as an Enlightened being. How can an Enlightened being be wrong?
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At the outset of a Guru-Student relationship, the student must be very clear on why he/she has chosen to be in this relationship. From the side of a qualified Guru, there is really no problem as the Guru completely understands the responsibility of taking a student.
A real Guru will mirror your delusions and challenge your negative habituation all the way with wrath or whatever methods deem suitable to train you. A real Guru will say what you need to hear and not what you want to hear. A real Guru will give us assignments you need to do in order for you to purify your negative karma and transform your mind which may not necessarily be what you like to do. A real Guru is someone whom you hire to assassinate your ego. A real Guru will do whatever it takes to guide you to enlightenment.
The question is are you ready to receive the training?
Many of us had missed the oportunity to train under Buddha Shakyamuni when He turned the Wheel of Dharma 2500 years ago. Similarly where were we when Buddha Atisha, Lama Tsongkhapa and many other Buddhas were around?
Buddha Vajradhara had already mentioned that he will appear as spiritual guides or gurus among us in degenerate times like now. But why are we still hesitant to train under the guru? The answer is because we have not completely surrendered ourselves to the guru. Surrendering means to practise with complete faith and conviction all the instructions as given to us by our qualified guru. It is illogical after establishing a guru-student relationship that we don't go 100% with the guru.
The next question is why not completely surrendering ourselves to the guru? WoselTenzin had clearly stated why.
- we are afraid to face our delusions and challenge our negative habituations
- we don't like criticism but only what we like to hear
- we discriminate between doing assignments that we like and not what we need to do
- we have too much pride
- many other reasons as stated by others in this forum
These can be summarised as the Eight Worldly Concerns that we are still attached to.
Complete reliance on spiritual guide as the foundation to all realisations or attainments is what we need to meditate on. Thereafter, receiving direct training is not a choice but a requirement!
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I have read that the moment you take refuge in a qualified guru, it is the moment he wants you to be independent of him.
I think it is very hard for a guru to be close to every single one of his students, but that does not mean the guru's love and care for his closer students are more than those distant. The concern for his students is the same.
For those who are fortunate enough to work closely, and I mean physically close to the guru, either they have the merits to do so or they may need the training more. Whatever the reason it is, I believe once you have taken refuge in a guru, you have to walk the path all the way, whether it is direct or indirect training.....only the Guru knows best what methods suit us well.
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I agree with what big uncle said. The guru's job is the make the student's mind pliable in order to be able to receive higher teachings. However, if a student constantly rejects any methods deployed by the Guru, even at one's death the Guru is unable to help because the student's mind has had a 'lifetime of training' to reject the Guru's instruction. So at death when the Guru appears to guide the student to a better rebirth, he or she will habitually reject . So let alone being able to receive Tantra, even at death the Guru is unable to help.So its baffling, why do some even want to seek a Guru when one is not ready to receive direct training from a Qualified Guru?
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I agree with what big uncle said. The guru's job is the make the student's mind pliable in order to be able to receive higher teachings. However, if a student constantly rejects any methods deployed by the Guru, even at one's death the Guru is unable to help because the student's mind has had a 'lifetime of training' to reject the Guru's instruction. So at death when the Guru appears to guide the student to a better rebirth, he or she will habitually reject . So let alone being able to receive Tantra, even at death the Guru is unable to help.So its baffling, why do some even want to seek a Guru when one is not ready to receive direct training from a Qualified Guru?
It is really not a mystery why some "students" reject all methods employed by the Guru to help them transform their minds. It is simply that their motivation to have a guru is not for Dharma reasons or to help them with their mind transformation. Their motivation to be near a Guru most probably is to get something mundane whether power, reputation, influence, money, career, protection etc.
Usually when this does not happen, they will eventually leave by themselves. Possible reasons also could be that they have created so much negative karma from their wrong motivation that it burns up their merits to be able to receive any blessings and teachings from the Guru or to be any where near the Guru.
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Does anyone out have any examples of how the Guru makes the mind pliable? Perhaps can share the types of experiences you have if any so we know what it really means to completely surrender ourselves to the Guru.
Chances are its a balancing act for the Guru to see how much the student can take without making them run. I picked up a comic book on a Mahasiddha called "Milarepa" the other day, chanced upon it and read it while waiting for my wife in the hair salon. The Guru put him through soo much trials, physical and mental to test his sincerity and committment.
We live in a different age than Milarepa, so what methods or trials does the Guru resort to in this day and age.
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Does anyone out have any examples of how the Guru makes the mind pliable? Perhaps can share the types of experiences you have if any so we know what it really means to completely surrender ourselves to the Guru.
Chances are its a balancing act for the Guru to see how much the student can take without making them run. I picked up a comic book on a Mahasiddha called "Milarepa" the other day, chanced upon it and read it while waiting for my wife in the hair salon. The Guru put him through soo much trials, physical and mental to test his sincerity and committment.
We live in a different age than Milarepa, so what methods or trials does the Guru resort to in this day and age.
A very interesting question indeed... one that provokes thought. For me personally, whatever that makes us "uncomfortable" and out of our comfort zones like an "out of body experience" would be the results of a Guru's methods in destroying our egos and thus making our minds "pliable".
We are and have been so conditioned from this and previous lifetimes that we may not even realise the methods that our Guru are using. In fact, we are very quick to jump back right into our so called comfort zones and "run" because we find it hard to deal with.
When our Guru points out something straight to our face, it is always from care and compassion. It is our ego that translates it into "hurt" and "fear". If we truly consider our Guru as our Spiritual Teacher, we have to accept that the methods used are in our best interest and benefit.
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How rare and fortunate to have a qualified guru in this life time!
In order to be ready to receive direct training, not only need enough merits, individual has to be ready and face up the truth (especially my inner demon and fear )
Under the direct training of a qualified guru, if I can achieve tremendous mind transformation and quick shift in comparison to before i met my guru, then this would be the best offering to my guru.
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If you say you are NOT READY, then when will you ever be ready???
The very reasons and motivation you started can change and will change if one really wants to practice Dharma. Otherwise you will always be not ready. And if one chooses to be not ready, then why even bother to take refuge with the Guru in the first place?
Once you have taken refuge, one should already have the mind set to be prepared for training, for transformation...
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If you say you are NOT READY, then when will you ever be ready???
The very reasons and motivation you started can change and will change if one really wants to practice Dharma. Otherwise you will always be not ready. And if one chooses to be not ready, then why even bother to take refuge with the Guru in the first place?
Once you have taken refuge, one should already have the mind set to be prepared for training, for transformation...
I like what you have said here dsiluvu... it is very true... when are we ever ready if we keep telling ourselves that we are not. Such is the condition of delusion that is so apparent in many of us. We are so "clever" to find reasons or convincing arguments as to why we are not ready but the fact remains, if we have yet to find a Guru or have even found one, WE HAVE TO BE READY. The only difference between the two is the latter is more fortunate than the former in having the merits to meet his or her Guru.
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I read somewhere (I can't remember where...) that purification is like taking a shower after years and years of being in the mud, filth and dirt without ever washing. When we start the process of showering, it seems as if we are getting more dirty, the dirt is everywhere, but we know we must continue in order to wash it out completely.
But when we purify or engage in actions as advised by our guru, maybe it seems as if our problems get bigger, more acute, more painful... and we think o-ooohhh that's not good I better stop this now... But there is no difference with the shower story, one must continue in order to purify.
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I read somewhere (I can't remember where...) that purification is like taking a shower after years and years of being in the mud, filth and dirt without ever washing. When we start the process of showering, it seems as if we are getting more dirty, the dirt is everywhere, but we know we must continue in order to wash it out completely.
But when we purify or engage in actions as advised by our guru, maybe it seems as if our problems get bigger, more acute, more painful... and we think o-ooohhh that's not good I better stop this now... But there is no difference with the shower story, one must continue in order to purify.
This is an interesting analogy... I must remember this. Thank you Hope Rainbow... I find this analogy very apt as if one is so dirty from all the accumulated filth, it takes a while to get clean. And the soap or brush or gloves we use will also get dirty and may also needed to be replaced. And that is just the larger surface areas... imagine the areas where we cannot reach, or under the nails, ears, nose, etc... Keep that shower running I say... and we better hope we paid the water bills!!!! :)
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We all have imprints from our past lives. The job of a guru is to keep pouring water onto the seeds so that the good imprints can grow. For example, if we made aspiration to benefit others in our previous life, guru will nurture it and let it grow.
I guess we all are never ready for something big. We just have to just jump in and do it.
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Yes Kris, we will never be ready. Many of my friends said they are not ready for spiritual practice, it is just an excuse. They do not understand the value of Dharma and Spiritual practice. We will not simply throw pure gold bar away as we know the value of gold in this world.
When we say we are not ready, one reason is because we are lazy, another reason is that we do not want to lose face due to our high ego which (our Guru will try many ways to lessen it). Understand how rare and fortunate to have met a Guru and receive his or her direct training, we will not give up easily.
We can read up all the Dharma book and chant all day, but without a guidance of Guru, we will not know never know how much we have to learn and how to remove our ego as by nature we do not like to inconvenient and push ourselves.
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We may think we are ready but we may not be or we may think we are not ready but we are. I dont think we will know for sure!
I think the best person who will know is the guru himself. Whether we are ready or not, the guru will know. Understanding the guru's role well, trust in the guru and take the guru instructions well is the only way I define being ready. Sometimes, you may be getting training from the guru without you even knowing.
On the other hand, even if one is ready, do everyone have that opportunity to be trained directly by the guru? I guess not. Does anyone know how do one create causes for that to manifest?
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We may think we are ready but we may not be or we may think we are not ready but we are. I dont think we will know for sure!
I think the best person who will know is the guru himself. Whether we are ready or not, the guru will know. Understanding the guru's role well, trust in the guru and take the guru instructions well is the only way I define being ready. Sometimes, you may be getting training from the guru without you even knowing.
On the other hand, even if one is ready, do everyone have that opportunity to be trained directly by the guru? I guess not. Does anyone know how do one create causes for that to manifest?
There are a few things you can do to create causes to be close to a teacher. Make strong prayers to be born close to a guru in future lives. Keep your samaya clean with your current guru, if you have one. If you do not have one, do whatever you can to follow the Buddhist path as if you already had a Guru. And search for a Guru close to you to follow, or even online.
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We all have imprints from our past lives. The job of a guru is to keep pouring water onto the seeds so that the good imprints can grow. For example, if we made aspiration to benefit others in our previous life, guru will nurture it and let it grow.
I guess we all are never ready for something big. We just have to just jump in and do it.
Let it grow, let it grow brother. Once those seed open there's no going back.
Alas in samsara its quite unfortunate that there are soo many without a Guru that there is no chance for the seeds to open in this life. My Guru has said before, if good seeds can open so too can bad seeds.
The good seeds will propel us towards good actions and the cultivation of more good seeds to open. Where as the bad seeds will cause us to open more and more bad seeds and negative outcomes.
Hence as buddhist we should at all times help plant seeds for the future, maybe not this lifetime but eventually the seeds will come across the opportune moment to open.
Here's to happy planting.
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I think it's not a question of whether we are ready to receive direct training from a qualified Guru but rather whether we want to be subject to the training to become a better person and gain attainments and whether we have faith in our Guru. If we have a strong desire to become a better person and gain attainments and we have faith in our Guru and have complete trust that whatever our Guru does is for our benefit, then we would willingly submit ourselves to any type of training from our Guru.
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Being ready is a choice we make. If we decide that we will do whatever it takes to learn from the qualified guru, then we make a choice to BE ready. It is a state of mind that is not dependant on the situation we're in.