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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: Damian.D on June 22, 2011, 08:44:37 PM
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Having an abortion whether for legitimate reasons or for selfish reasons is still the taking of a life and hence the act of negative karma or the result of negative karma.
Will there be any such practice that can purify the karma of taking a life?
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Thank you Damian.D for posting this question. This is what I want to ask too. One of my friend just have an abortion recently. According to her, it's out of no choice, she's not ready to be a single mother yet as she comes from a very conservative family and this will affect her career too.
However, as a buddhist, she suffered a lot mentally after the abortion and wonder what she can do to purify this karma of killing her own baby.
What practice can she do to purify or lessen her karma?
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Pro Choice... Pro Karma
I have read and heard that there are a few practices that may purify if done sincerely, like
1. Contributing financially to building of a temple or a statue for the temple
2. Doing 100000 prostrations to a Buddha statue with full regret and promising not to repeat
3. Reciting 35 Confessional Buddhas or Vajrasattva with great remorse and promising not to repeat.
In fact, number 2 and 3 are very good to do daily by incorporating into our daily sadhana. Donating to a temple purifies our karma and collects great merit for our Dharma practice.
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Pro Choice... Pro Karma
I have read and heard that there are a few practices that may purify if done sincerely, like
1. Contributing financially to building of a temple or a statue for the temple
2. Doing 100000 prostrations to a Buddha statue with full regret and promising not to repeat
3. Reciting 35 Confessional Buddhas or Vajrasattva with great remorse and promising not to repeat.
In fact, number 2 and 3 are very good to do daily by incorporating into our daily sadhana. Donating to a temple purifies our karma and collects great merit for our Dharma practice.
Thank you samayakeeper for sharing practices that can purify the karma of abortion. Of course, this is not to encourage women to have abortion and then do purification practices to purify it, but I believe this knowledge will help many women who previously had abortion either out of ignorance or due to fear of societal scorn and want to do something to purify their past misdeed.
I believe this will give relieve to many women out there who regret their actions but do not know what to do.
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Thank you samayakeeper for sharing practices that can purify the karma of abortion. Of course, this is not to encourage women to have abortion and then do purification practices to purify it, but I believe this knowledge will help many women who previously had abortion either out of ignorance or due to fear of societal scorn and want to do something to purify their past misdeed.
Dear WT, you are so right to mention this (thank you), for the Lamrim also says that to engage in a non-virtuous action because we know of a way to purify the action is just as silly as breaking his own leg because we know it can be fixed. Duuuhhh...
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Thank you samayakeeper for sharing practices that can purify the karma of abortion. Of course, this is not to encourage women to have abortion and then do purification practices to purify it, but I believe this knowledge will help many women who previously had abortion either out of ignorance or due to fear of societal scorn and want to do something to purify their past misdeed.
Dear WT, you are so right to mention this (thank you), for the Lamrim also says that to engage in a non-virtuous action because we know of a way to purify the action is just as silly as breaking his own leg because we know it can be fixed. Duuuhhh...
I am in total agreement with the above!
I think the purification practices mentioned above apply to taking out any forms of lives.......be it human, animal or insect.....
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Having an abortion whether for legitimate reasons or for selfish reasons is still the taking of a life and hence the act of negative karma or the result of negative karma.
Will there be any such practice that can purify the karma of taking a life?
This is a tough one as it deals with a life... however if we really look into our lives under a microscope, we do "kill" lives unknowingly and sometimes knowingly but because it is not human we think it is ok. Perhaps it is of a lesser negative karma because a human life is more precious as is able to absorb the Dharma better... yes perhaps.
Back to the topic at hand... for me it is the lesser of two evils. Both may have repercussions of negative karma. If an unwed/unfit mother were to have the child, that may topple a series of dominos which will effect a lot more lives and a lot more negative karma as opposed to having an abortion which will have the negative karma but only effects one person. Having said this, does not give anyone the justification to go have an abortion and say.... "oh well, it worse karma if i have the baby".
I think in this day an age one should be able to not even have to get into that situation. One should have to be responsible for one's actions. Be safe! Be smart! Do not get yourself in a situation where you would have to make this choice and then think how to redeem oneself... We are ultimately responsible for ALL our actions and nothing that happens to us is by chance. Think about it! Those are my thoughts really...
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There is no perfection in samsaric existence whether in human world , god realm or the other lower realms.It is futile to seek perfect solutions to the problems we face. As someone had mentioned , its always the lesser of two evils. Rarely can we have a win win situation.Even when that happens we lose it all anyway at death.
Experiencing the unceasing difficulties , trials and tribulations of life and the temporal nature of our solutions should make us fed up of such an unsatisfactory existence. It should motivate us to think or wish to get out of this cycle. We transform a potentially hopeless and negative situation into giving birth to a very precious mind - RENUNCIATION ! This is the starting point of one's spiritual path and way to go.
Buddha said all of us can do that, all of us deserve to be free from all kinds of suffering.
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Life does on many occasions give us challenges and some leave us destitute (as we would like to think). Abortion is really killing life irregardless of what people may say about the state of the fetus at which month, and that there is no form yet. Once conceived, the mind stream exists whether or not the body is formed. Thus life exist. This topic is very hard for me because just the mere thought gives me pain.
However, given that there are circumstances which may "justify" an abortion in samsara, it is good to know that purification can be done. But it should never be used as an excuse for irresponsible actions.
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When we are stuck in between the devil and the deep blue sea, I guess, we do need to weigh the consequences very seriously.
Having both wisdom and compassion in making our decisions on very difficult issues are always essential.
Thereafter, whatever decision we make, we need to go through the consequences without incurring more bad karma for ourselves and suffering for others.
I guess, at the end of the day, it all boils down to if that decision will hamper or hasten our spiritual progress?
And if it will help us in our spiritual progress and it does not become an obstacle, then no matter how difficult it is to exercise that decision, then we have to do it for the sake of our spiritual progress and growth.
After which, we need to purify by doing whatever that is necessary to deal with the decision we have made.
There is no right or wrong, only what's most beneficial from the perspective of our spiritual development.
I had an abortion when I was twenty-one. It was a well thought out decision which I do have to purify to this day. I have not stopped purifying until now. Though it allowed me the freedom and ease to do what I needed to do, it does not mean that I can stop purifying that decision made. This is something I have to live with and pay for, every single day.
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I had an abortion when I was twenty-one. It was a well thought out decision which I do have to purify to this day. I have not stopped purifying until now. Though it allowed me the freedom and ease to do what I needed to do, it does not mean that I can stop purifying that decision made. This is something I have to live with and pay for, every single day.
Dear Helena,
Thank you for sharing... it is most interesting what you said here... "This is something I have to live and pay for, every single day". This is what it means to be responsible for one's choices and actions and not sweep it under the carpet. It is precisely this awareness of one's action that I feel is part of the "healing" or purification process. If we choose to ignore or feel justified in doing the negative actions we did, it will be counter productive to our growth!
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We make choices every day. Be it a right choice or wrong choice. They both have its own karma and we need to purify because they all have consequences.
I love the story about Buddha in one of his lifetimes as a Captain of a boat, if I recall correctly. And there were a few hundred people in the boat and one murderer/thief. Through Buddha's power of clairvoyance, he saw that the thief was going to kill everyone in the boat. So, in order to save the few hundred people, Buddha killed the thief himself. Though Buddha's act is noble and his intent is noble, Buddha still had to pay for the 'sin of killing'. For that, I think it was said that Buddha spent a day in the Hell Realm.
Now, Buddha had a lot of merits and spiritual attainments to support him. Whereas we do not.
Most fo the time, we can't even truly tell if our own motivations are pure or even right.
So, we must always purify and pay for everything that we have done wrongly every single day.
It would help a great deal when we do not add to that list of wrongly deeds anymore too.
Hence, Dharma is a living practice.
We practice every day, every moment, with every thought and with every breath we take. And we do our best to do the very best we can, with what we understand. As long as we keep learning, we will gain real knowledge and higher understanding. This allow us to see more and do more good - not just for ourselves but also others.
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... Though Buddha's act is noble and his intent is noble, Buddha still had to pay for the 'sin of killing'. For that, I think it was said that Buddha spent a day in the Hell Realm.
If we kill, we will end up being killed. Or the we will have rebirths with very short life-spans etc. Even Buddha has to be born in the Hell Realm as a result of killing. Killing is top in the list of non-virtuous actions to be avoided by all Buddhists. That shows the severity of the action.
Abortion equals killing. It doesn't matter whether the abortion was done to save the mother due to complication in delivery etc. It is still Killing. It is the karma of the aborted child to have an early death. Those involved in making decision for the abortion have to think carefully because they will experience the result of Killing.
Angulimala has killed 999 persons but later he gained Arhatship after he met Lord Buddha. He is able to purify all his negative karma of Killing. This shows that we can purify our negative karma of Killing. But this does not justify the act of Killing. Why think of abortion when pregnancy could have been avoided in the first place? In the event where abortion could not be avoided, the parties involved have to weigh all options available carefully ...
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I know that killing is still killing. And I am glad that we are fortunate enough to know the Dharma and to have such wonder prayers to purify our negative karma.
But what if you were raped and you came to know you were made pregnant from your rapist? What would you do then? How will you decide then?
I suppose just like any other karma... it takes the 4 complete stages to make a karma complete...
1) Thought/Intent
2) Planning/Plotting theact
3. Actually carrying out the action and
4. Rejoicing in your action
Samsara indeed is scary.
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I know that killing is still killing. And I am glad that we are fortunate enough to know the Dharma and to have such wonder prayers to purify our negative karma.
But what if you were raped and you came to know you were made pregnant from your rapist? What would you do then? How will you decide then?
I suppose just like any other karma... it takes the 4 complete stages to make a karma complete...
1) Thought/Intent
2) Planning/Plotting theact
3. Actually carrying out the action and
4. Rejoicing in your action
Samsara indeed is scary.
It is indeed scary if we choose to view it as thus! However there is a silver lining... if we choose to accept our karma as a result of our own negative actions be it from this lifetime or our previous lifetimes, we will not be so willing to blame others or use others or situations as an excuse. Hence when faced with a difficult decision such as choosing to have an abortion or to keep the child (whatever the circumstances of conception was) we make a firm decision based on the lesser of 2 evils so to speak and try not to propagate the negative karma any further.
Sure it is not easy and there is really no right or wrong, just different routes. They all lead to one goal in the end! It reminds me of a movie I love.... its called Sliding Doors and it stars Gweneth Palthrow. I thought is was brilliantly executed and very apt! Find the movie/download it and watch it if you have not!
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As a man, I used to have a strong view that abortion was killing, and that most reasons to justify it were just excuses. Then I found myself in a situation when I had to make a choice. The details are not really important. It turned out that my friend was not really pregnant, but just wanted to see what I would do or say. Put on the spot like that, not wanting to be a father and not wanting to have such an onus of responsibility to "the mother", I implied that I was OK with the idea of an abortion.
I learned a lot from this experience, to be less judgemental, to more careful in my choice or partner (not to have sex with anyone I couldn't imagine spending the rest of my life with), to always carry contraception, just in case (you never know what situation may arise). I purified a little by promising to have no type of relationship for at least a year (was 18 months in the end). It made me mistrustful of women (and myself). It made me more guarded emotionally - and still am. Even though there never was a baby I incurred negative karma, as the wish to kill does that.
I sometimes wonder if the woman involved was an emanation, helping me improve my wisdom, compassion, empathy.
Only highly realised beings can know all the effects of any particular action, but we can all do our best to be honest with ourselves in order to avoid engaging in actions out of delusion. We all make mistakes, and luckily we have been given powerful methods of purification. In past lives we have all committed many heavy negative actions, we don't need to add to them. It is clear to me that wisdom helps us to only perform virtuous actions, but wisdom is hard to get.
One final point, someone mentioned that if a woman was pregnant as a result of rape, this somehow made abortion more justifiable. I would plead with anyone in this position, or similar, to recognise that the baby is not the father. I think that this is relatively easy to do, by just making the decision to do so.
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Good or bad, whatever choices we make or feel that we are forced to make - there will be karma and consequences. And karma accumulates when it is not dealt with. There is simply no easy way out. It's about being accountable for our actions and lives, at the same time, being able to think that we are also responsible for others' lives because our actions do impact them in some ways.
We can't escape from our karma no matter what we decide to do. If we do something good, then we reap the fruits of good karma. IF we do something bad or unpleasant, that karma will be waiting for us. I think we need to comprehend this fully so that we are fully aware of what we are doing, saying and even thinking.
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As a man, I used to have a strong view that abortion was killing, and that most reasons to justify it were just excuses. Then I found myself in a situation when I had to make a choice. The details are not really important. It turned out that my friend was not really pregnant, but just wanted to see what I would do or say. Put on the spot like that, not wanting to be a father and not wanting to have such an onus of responsibility to "the mother", I implied that I was OK with the idea of an abortion.
Abortion is killing and there is no doubt about it. We all know that and can be very self righteous about it when we are not involved.
However, when we are put on a spot like Lam Chung where we ourselves have to make a choice, will we be able to hold our conviction. If you are a woman and you were raped by a stranger, will you be able to maintain your conviction that abortion is bad or will you go ahead with it because the social scorn is too much to take.
The question is will you be able to do the right thing if you are the one making the choice?
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Thank you Samayakeeper for posting this. People who abort does not understand the heavy negative karma created. This information will help purify their misdeeds due to ignorance. How can we share this with more people?
Pro Choice... Pro Karma
I have read and heard that there are a few practices that may purify if done sincerely, like
1. Contributing financially to building of a temple or a statue for the temple
2. Doing 100000 prostrations to a Buddha statue with full regret and promising not to repeat
3. Reciting 35 Confessional Buddhas or Vajrasattva with great remorse and promising not to repeat.
In fact, number 2 and 3 are very good to do daily by incorporating into our daily sadhana. Donating to a temple purifies our karma and collects great merit for our Dharma practice.
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WT asked if one would be able to do the right thing re aborting an unwanted baby who is the result of a rape. The right thing would be to not abort or kill the baby. However, here it is better to go by Buddha's norm of the wholesomeness or unwholesomeness of an action. A wholesome action is one that will take into consideration all factors and parties involved. In this case, one needs to think of the unborn baby's right to life as well.
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WT asked if one would be able to do the right thing re aborting an unwanted baby who is the result of a rape. The right thing would be to not abort or kill the baby. However, here it is better to go by Buddha's norm of the wholesomeness or unwholesomeness of an action. A wholesome action is one that will take into consideration all factors and parties involved. In this case, one needs to think of the unborn baby's right to life as well.
I agree with Vajrastorm stand on the unborn baby's right to life. It may be difficult for the rape victim to raise up a stranger's child and to be reminded of the incident. Also rape victims are often looked down and scorned by society. However, it is not the fault of the unborn child. Abortion is killing and what right do we have to take away the life of an innocent unborn child.
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WT asked if one would be able to do the right thing re aborting an unwanted baby who is the result of a rape. The right thing would be to not abort or kill the baby. However, here it is better to go by Buddha's norm of the wholesomeness or unwholesomeness of an action. A wholesome action is one that will take into consideration all factors and parties involved. In this case, one needs to think of the unborn baby's right to life as well.
I agree with Vajrastorm stand on the unborn baby's right to life. It may be difficult for the rape victim to raise up a stranger's child and to be reminded of the incident. Also rape victims are often looked down and scorned by society. However, it is not the fault of the unborn child. Abortion is killing and what right do we have to take away the life of an innocent unborn child.
True, true but I'm not sure if I were the rape victim I could go through the 9 months without being reminded of the fear, hurt and hopelessness that came with the traumatic experience.
How unfair it is that the rape victim would still have to face with the negative karma of killing on top of the physical and emotional injuries she has suffered :'(
No wonder samsara has no perfection and true liberation is the only way out !
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Sure it is not easy and there is really no right or wrong, just different routes.
They all lead to one goal in the end!
Thank you PA for pointing that out.
For some of us here that might have gone through an abortion, whatever the rational is, I think it is good to remember that this is not a matter of "right or wrong". Buddhism does not work this way.
"right or wrong" thinking brings about guilt.
And it is not helping at all to develop guilt over an abortion for example.
Why is it not helping? This is why:
- guilt is a mind that is stuck in a repeated thought screaming "I am a bad person",
- this reinforces a self-centered mind,
- this closes our mind and may even bring to insanity,
- our mind then gets stuck with no constructive solution, only guilt, and spins in a spiral down.
Instead of "right or wrong", Buddhism teaches us that our actions have consequences.
So in this case - abortion - one is to face her/his action realistically and contemplate on the consequences, THEN develop an educated intelligent REGRET - not guilt.
Regret has this power to propel us to act and engage in reparative behaviors.
So after we have developed regret, we look for a valid method to bring about a method to repair or modify the consequences of our action. For a Buddhist, it would be the teachings of the Buddha, and so we rely on the 3 jewels.
Then, we apply the method, which can be through prayers, or other actions that can be advised by one's Guru. And we promise ourselves not to repeat this action again.
All that cannot be done with a mind of guilt.
Guilt is a prison.
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True, true but I'm not sure if I were the rape victim I could go through the 9 months without being reminded of the fear, hurt and hopelessness that came with the traumatic experience.
How unfair it is that the rape victim would still have to face with the negative karma of killing on top of the physical and emotional injuries she has suffered :'(
No wonder samsara has no perfection and true liberation is the only way out !
I knew of a young lady many, many years back who was raped during a night out in New Orleans. She was the sweetest girl. She was not religious but had the heart to see pass her own horrific experience and decided to not abort and keep the child. She told me that what happened has nothing to do with the child thus, she will give her all to take care of the child. Her parents was supportive. Amazing person.
All of us, be it we have had abortions, be the cause for abortion or not,...we all need to do as much purification practices as we can.
wishing all to be well
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Wow, DS Friend, your friend is amazing. She indeed has a big heart to see beyond her own pains and able to love the child bore not out of her own free choice.
Yes, people like her, whose life will be enriched by negative conditions , grow stronger and wiser.
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My thinking is that the first choice would be not to abort no matter what. However, for any act to be complete we need the four factors to be present that is intent/object, planning/determination, act and rejoicing. In the case of abortion, it is very hard to avoid the first 3 and also very hard to rejoice. If any one factor is missing then the act of killing is not complete. It this case, most likely the factor of rejoice will be missing.
However, this will still have some negative karma.
Well this is samsara. Due to our previous karma, we are put in such situations.
I think, if we are just thinking of purifying the negative karma of abortion, why don't we also endeavor to purify all our negative karma, by doing Dharma Practice. That is the best we can do in this rare human life.
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Thanks for the topic and I like Helena's posts very much, it's very true.
I have the same experience a few years back, for me it's in between which suffering you prefer to choose. In between the karma of killing and let the child be born in incomplete family and having an unpleasant lifetime; I rather have the killing karma of my own than let the child suffer the whole life.
We never run away from karma, karma is like a shadow follows us from life to life and even play important role determining which realm we go. I accept it.
I might be killing a chance of a being to become a human, but with this experience I explore more to Dharma and realize life is not about us but others, the presence of the baby did a good job which drew a person to Dharma.
This might be a karma from my previous life that I need to bear this killing karma, I choose and accept it and at the same time I made this experience beneficial to the baby/being, to gain merits.
There are many dilemmas in the samsara that you will have bad karma either way, for me just do a wiser choice.
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I have a lady friend who told me that she had a miscarriage and the phycological effect on her is tremendously bad. Even though she knows the baby is not fit (as mentioned by the doctor), she still hang on to this matter for months, until she started doing Dharma Protector practice. What is amazing is, after just 2-3 pujas, she had been able to make peace with it.
So, what helped her very much is the protector practice.
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It is easier to recover from a miscarriage than from an abortion. In a miscarriage, there is no intention to kill. In fact the woman suffers a sense of loss. In an abortion, there is intention to kill, whatever the reason provided. In the latter case, there must be purification done in one's lifetime. One can consult a qualified guru and follow instructions.
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It is easier to recover from a miscarriage than from an abortion. In a miscarriage, there is no intention to kill. In fact the woman suffers a sense of loss. In an abortion, there is intention to kill, whatever the reason provided. In the latter case, there must be purification done in one's lifetime. One can consult a qualified guru and follow instructions.
My point is, even miscarriage (with no intention to kill) has done a lot of psychological damages, let alone abortion...
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1) Read the Sanghata Sutra twelve times.
2) Read the Diamond Cutter Sutra once. To read it more than this is very, very good, but the minimum is once.
3) Every morning, do 100 prostrations to the Thirty-five Buddhas, while reciting their names, then at the end do the confession prayers.
4) Every evening, recite the long Vajrasattva mantra 21 times, or do half a mala, with meditation on the four opponent powers.
5) Then if you can, do lam-rim meditations. If you can, spend one month on each subject of the lam-rim. So, for instance, spend one month on the perfect human rebirth, then one month on its usefulness etc, in this way spending a month on each part of the lam-rim up to bodhicitta. Do this by using the lam-rim outline. You can use the Essential Nectar book and also Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand. I hope you have these books. It would be so good to develop your mind on the path to enlightenment. After you finish the lam-rim, go back to the beginning and start again. Do this over three years, trying to actualize the realizations and stabilize them.