dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mana on April 19, 2011, 05:05:14 AM
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(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/dsinitiation-wangchuk1.jpg)
(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/dsinitiation-wangchuk2.jpg)
(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/dsinitiation-wangchuk3.jpg)
(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/dsinitiation-wangchuk4.jpg)
(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/dsinitiation-wangchuk5.jpg)
(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/dsinitiation-wangchuk6.jpg)
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJOniGdo1Nc
Note: Shugden tormas 8:10 and Shugden thangka 10:40
He has given Dorje Shugden's initiation to vast crowds over ten times in this year alone we have been informed. In Drayab district alone over ten thousand attended the initiation of Shugden Geshe himself mentions (2,000 monks & 8,000 lay persons). He has given initiation in various parts of Tibet such as in Trengdu, Dromo, Dala, Ringu, Goma, Pelee, Yalung, etc.
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What came to mind as i looked at these photos is "YAY! Dorje Shugden practice is NOT dying no matter how suppressed he and his practitioners have experienced and continue to experience!"
Thank you Mana for posting up the pictures. The courtyard looks full, with no more room and a few had to stand. It goes to show, that Dorje Shugden's practice is beneficial, and people are looking to receive initiation despite of the possibilities of being ostracized and separated from friends and loved ones, economic loss, and physical harm.
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Where are the photos of Dorje shugden at these initations ? To conclusively establish that Dorje shugden is being given to people we need some pictures with him in it. I note the last lot of pictures did not have any in either.
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click here for the Dorje Shugden initiation video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJOniGdo1Nc
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click here for the Dorje Shugden initiation video:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJOniGdo1Nc[/url]
And for those of us who cant speak nor understand written Tibetan and chinese ? a Translation video would be helpful ! :)
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Where are the photos of Dorje shugden at these initations ? To conclusively establish that Dorje shugden is being given to people we need some pictures with him in it. I note the last lot of pictures did not have any in either.
First of all I want to thank this website for continuously bringing us such inspirational news. Here we do not just discuss issues back and forth, but there is so much news, information and activities. I am so happy to see this video. It is amazing.
Secondly from this video we can see it is CONCLUSIVELY a ritual related to Dorje Shugden. As in the video, I may not understand Chinese/Tibetan, you can hear the Geshe mention Trijang Rinpoche and Dorje Shugden many times. You can see the Tormas (8:12) prepared for Dorje Shugden's initiation. You can also see the thangka of Dorje Shugden (10:44).
Thirdly before I request anymore, I would like to give thanks for so many things given to us so accurately for years already. Thank you to this website for such a wonderful inspiring video and post. Dorje Shugden's practice is alive and well in Tibet or will be eventually have large strongholds. I cannot say it enough, this video is so heartwarming. Geshe Wangchuk has given this Shugden initiation over ten times in this year alone to vast crowds! Long life to Geshe Wangchuk who heroically teach Dorje Shugden and give this blessed practice to so many.
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Where are the photos of Dorje shugden at these initations ? To conclusively establish that Dorje shugden is being given to people we need some pictures with him in it. I note the last lot of pictures did not have any in either.
Hey Zach - Do you doubt the veracity of the posts? Even if you do, I think that there's a nice way to ask?
click here for the Dorje Shugden initiation video:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJOniGdo1Nc[/url]
And for those of us who cant speak nor understand written Tibetan and chinese ? a Translation video would be helpful ! :)
Personally, I think that your two posts here sound rather antagonistic... uncharacteristically rude even - hope you're okay?
I don't speak Tibetan or Chinese either but I put stuff up that I find online, even if it's in a different language (see my recent post about the Sakya Thangka of Dorje Shugden) - just to share that something IS online. But I do NOT demand nor expect the admin of this site to get my or someone else's post translated. The admin already administrates this site pretty amazingly well, I think. There's always new stuff posted here, which is why I keep coming back. So far there isn't any fake news, which is why I thought your earlier comment re "where are the photos etc" unreasonably demanding.
Hope it's just that you got out of the wrong side of the bed today, Zach.
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Again, THANK YOU, Admin and this wonderful website for always sharing with us great news and important information.
I really love this website!
It makes me so happy to read this. As I have commented the same in my Facebook -
Hero-Lamas continue to pave the way and spread the practice of Dorje Shugden far and wide, despite challenging times. They are heroes to me because they do not give up and they do even more. Whether a lineage, teaching or practice survives - it is all dependent on great individuals like them and the students who will also become like them.
I TRULY REJOICE!
May our great Protector Practice grow even more, because with the growth, Dharma will also flourish. I am very happy at the thought of many many people benefiting from the Dharma.
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Where are the photos of Dorje shugden at these initations ? To conclusively establish that Dorje shugden is being given to people we need some pictures with him in it. I note the last lot of pictures did not have any in either.
Hey Zach - Do you doubt the veracity of the posts? Even if you do, I think that there's a nice way to ask?
click here for the Dorje Shugden initiation video:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJOniGdo1Nc[/url]
And for those of us who cant speak nor understand written Tibetan and chinese ? a Translation video would be helpful ! :)
Personally, I think that your two posts here sound rather antagonistic... uncharacteristically rude even - hope you're okay?
I don't speak Tibetan or Chinese either but I put stuff up that I find online, even if it's in a different language (see my recent post about the Sakya Thangka of Dorje Shugden) - just to share that something IS online. But I do NOT demand nor expect the admin of this site to get my or someone else's post translated. The admin already administrates this site pretty amazingly well, I think. There's always new stuff posted here, which is why I keep coming back. So far there isn't any fake news, which is why I thought your earlier comment re "where are the photos etc" unreasonably demanding.
Hope it's just that you got out of the wrong side of the bed today, Zach.
I dont beleive anything till i see it. Not to mention the panchen lama photo this website had here with Dorje shugden behind him was a photoshop job.
Again sorry If my tone is coming across as rude But i prefer conclusive proof to establish the existance of something. And so now proof is conclusive you have my thanks :)
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I dont beleive anything till i see it. Not to mention the panchen lama photo this website had here with Dorje shugden behind him was a photoshop job.
Again sorry If my tone is coming across as rude But i prefer conclusive proof to establish the existance of something. And so now proof is conclusive you have my thanks :)
Fair enough to be skeptical. As a matter of fact, I don't believe the Panchen Lama photo which was posted in this forum was real but i DO believe that when it was posted, it was posted in good faith. However, like i said - i don't think you're a rude person so please don't make people think you are with an unnecessarily antagonistic tone :) it really seems unlike you... and unbecoming.. or perhaps I was simply mistaken in my previous estimation of you. I hope not.
By the way, it's not me you should thank but Mana for posting the original post - and supplying the "conclusive proof" :)
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Thank you Mana for sharing this wonderful post.
I can confirm that this is an authentic video of Dorje Shugden Initiation as I can read Chinese. In the beginning of the video, Geshe Wangchuk has mentioned why we needed to take DS initiation, it was to help the propagation of Lord Tsongkhapa teaching. Without Dorje Shugden's help, it will be very difficult.
At interval 4:28, Geshe Wangchuk also expalined why it is very illogical for some people to say Dorje Shugden as a demon, as why did high enlightened lamas need Initiation from a demon?
And obviously at interval 10:44, we can clearly see the Dorje Shugden thangka.
It is so heart warming to see that Geshe Wangchuk works tirelessly in giving so many DS initiations all over Tibet. May he lives long and continue to uphold this sacred lineage.
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Where are the photos of Dorje shugden at these initations ? To conclusively establish that Dorje shugden is being given to people we need some pictures with him in it. I note the last lot of pictures did not have any in either.
Hey Zach - Do you doubt the veracity of the posts? Even if you do, I think that there's a nice way to ask?
click here for the Dorje Shugden initiation video:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJOniGdo1Nc[/url]
And for those of us who cant speak nor understand written Tibetan and chinese ? a Translation video would be helpful ! :)
Personally, I think that your two posts here sound rather antagonistic... uncharacteristically rude even - hope you're okay?
I don't speak Tibetan or Chinese either but I put stuff up that I find online, even if it's in a different language (see my recent post about the Sakya Thangka of Dorje Shugden) - just to share that something IS online. But I do NOT demand nor expect the admin of this site to get my or someone else's post translated. The admin already administrates this site pretty amazingly well, I think. There's always new stuff posted here, which is why I keep coming back. So far there isn't any fake news, which is why I thought your earlier comment re "where are the photos etc" unreasonably demanding.
Hope it's just that you got out of the wrong side of the bed today, Zach.
I dont beleive anything till i see it. Not to mention the panchen lama photo this website had here with Dorje shugden behind him was a photoshop job.
Again sorry If my tone is coming across as rude But i prefer conclusive proof to establish the existance of something. And so now proof is conclusive you have my thanks :)
The Panchen lama photo was posted on this website. That is one item you see you do not believe. Can you share the hundreds of other things on this website that does benefit? To say something positive?
Can you see Dorje Shugden? Can you see Shakyamuni? Can you see Tara? Can you Tsongkapa? Can you see Yamantaka? Can you see Nagarjuna? Not trying to be negative. But inferential logic is just as useful as direct perception. Just my thoughts. :)
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click here for the Dorje Shugden initiation video:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJOniGdo1Nc[/url]
And for those of us who cant speak nor understand written Tibetan and chinese ? a Translation video would be helpful to all of us so tremendously !
Could you help to arrange to get it translated and contribute in that way please? I unfortunately do not have any contacts for this. But I wouldn't mind contributing financially to a translator to get it done. I would like to know what Geshe Wangchuk is saying very much too. :)
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Many monks of Sera, Drepung and Gaden watch Geshe Wangchuk's teachings. Even though he openly promotes Dorje Shugden and practice. It is strange his cds and talks are not banned in Sera, Drepung and Gaden.
The monks have reported he is a very charismatic teacher that speaks very well. People are very drawn to his dharma talks. He is direct and to the point. He explains very well. Being that he resides and teaches in Tibet, the Tibetan govt in exile cannot restrict him in any form.
That is very good news.
Mana
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I rejoice in seeing this... that many hundreds and thousands Tibetans are able to receive Dorje Shugden's practice FREEEEELY without any problems or discrimination and in fact it looks like China is in support of it. It sure sounds better then being in India. Thanks Mana for these beautiful pictures and Videos.
I too do not understand the video but like what thaimonk mentioned,
Secondly from this video we can see it is CONCLUSIVELY a ritual related to Dorje Shugden. As in the video, I may not understand Chinese/Tibetan, you can hear the Geshe mention Trijang Rinpoche and Dorje Shugden many times. You can see the Tormas (8:12) prepared for Dorje Shugden's initiation. You can also see the thangka of Dorje Shugden (10:44).
which clearly shows if we're not "lazy", and if we actually do our home work and watch the video and try to at least find the answers our selves first instead of so arrogantly wanting to be spoon fed all the time, demanding for answers like someone owe it to us, we would realise all the answers we are looking for is always right under our noses ;) Yes of course getting it translated would be such a great generous way to show one's support and care toward Dorje Shugden's practice growing as many would benefit from it too and would be so appreciative.
I've also heard that Geshe Wangchuk is one of the high monks that is recognized by the Chinese Government? Can anyone verify this???
Many monks of Sera, Drepung and Gaden watch Geshe Wangchuk's teachings. Even though he openly promotes Dorje Shugden and practice. It is strange his cds and talks are not banned in Sera, Drepung and Gaden.
How come Sera, Drepung and Gaden watched his teachings? Isn't he considered "evil", those who practices Dorje Shugden are deemed as evil and bad so why listen to his teachings... this is definitely strange.
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I feel so happy seeing so many people receiving the holy initiation of Dorje Shugden as it will benefit them and they will become better people after receiving the initiation and they will not fall down to the 3 lower realms. If initiations like these are given in large scale in China every year and the people receiving it is different, can you imagine how many thousands of people get Dorje Shugden as their Dharma protector every year?! That would be an amazing amount. At this rate it would only be a matter of time before Dorje Shugden's practice spills over to the Han Chinese which are even more in number and there will be more and more Dorje Shugden practitioners in this world, or at least, people that will see lots of benefits from it.
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It is always liberating to hear of such news... In fact it goes to show that even with the suppression of the ban, the spread of Dorje Shugden is still spreading far and wide! In fact it is fast gaining ground... I liken it to the 'forbidden fruit' concept. The more one suppresses and pushes into 'hiding' the faster and further it spreads. Perhaps this is the ultimate goal of all on BOTH camps... perhaps this IS the bigger picture!
Whatever the case may be, I know for a fact HHDL cannot be faulted nor can Dorje Shugden as they are oth enlightened beings... so what is the purpose of the ban? Go figure!!! ;)
Back to the topic at hand, I heard through the grapevine that China has even begun to 'send' lamas out to teach especially Dorje Shugden Lamas because it is said and 'perceived', that the spread of Dorje Shugden shortens HHDL life... and that is certainly in China's favour!
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It is always liberating to hear of such news... In fact it goes to show that even with the suppression of the ban, the spread of Dorje Shugden is still spreading far and wide! In fact it is fast gaining ground... I liken it to the 'forbidden fruit' concept. The more one suppresses and pushes into 'hiding' the faster and further it spreads. Perhaps this is the ultimate goal of all on BOTH camps... perhaps this IS the bigger picture!
Whatever the case may be, I know for a fact HHDL cannot be faulted nor can Dorje Shugden as they are oth enlightened beings... so what is the purpose of the ban? Go figure!!! ;)
Back to the topic at hand, I heard through the grapevine that China has even begun to 'send' lamas out to teach especially Dorje Shugden Lamas because it is said and 'perceived', that the spread of Dorje Shugden shortens HHDL life... and that is certainly in China's favour!
The best thing is that since CTA has totally no control over Tibet, no Rinpoches or Dharma protectors or lineages are banned. CTA has banned a lot of Rinpoches from reincarnating over the many years that they existed. Since being in Dharamsala, CTA has not achieved anything at all but implementing the ban and even that also they are not successful at it as there are still people who practice it and they resort to unbuddhist ways to get what they want. The only reason why they are so desperately trying to get back into Tibet is because they cannot survive in today's world, as they hang on to archaic methods in the name of preserving their tradition.
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Dharma protetor practice yes they do help us in overcoming our problems and obstacles at the same time I feel personally for the Lama Tsongkhapa traditions to spread even much much more in our age of Knowledge and Information, where knowledge can be shared in an instant, a moment etc etc. Hence the deep Knowledge of the sutra and tantra as expounded by Je Tsongkhapa is ripe for this time where by people have the capacity to absorb all matter of knowledge and information.
And I feel that in a way Dorje Shugden as a protector also manifests curve balls at times, why? Coz for Lama Tsongkhapa to spread so far a wide some of the curve balls/challenges he manifest for us is to make us push ourselves even much more to make the Je Tsongkhapa reach the level it needs to be.
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The more they tried to suppress Dorje Shugden, the bigger he grows and the more centers practice him and the more monasteries are opened by those who practice him. Isnt it crystal clear that he is not evil? If he was evil why would so many monasteries be opened by Lamas who practice Dorje Shugden? How can that be logical at all? And now we even have a high Lama giving Dorje Shugden initiation - planting the seed of happiness so that their future lives will be blessed by the three jewels, over and over again. May Dorje Shugden grow! May more of these events take place in China and elsewhere!