dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zach on April 05, 2011, 08:51:01 PM
-
Emanations of Ju Mipham
According to one account shortly before he died, Mipham told his attendant:
Nowadays, if you speak the truth, there is nobody to listen; if you speak lies everyone thinks it is true. I have never said this before: I am not an ordinary person; I am a bodhisattva who has taken rebirth through aspiration. The suffering experienced in this body is just the residue of karma; but from now on I will never again have to experience karmic obscuration. … Now, in this final age, the barbarians beyond the frontier are close to undermining the teaching. [So] there is no point whatsoever in my taking rebirth here…I have no reason to take birth in impure realms ever again.[12]
This may be interpreted as a statement that his mindstream would have no further 'emanations' (Wylie: sprul pa (tulpa); sprul sku (tulku)). Conversely, according to another account in which he mentions the mindstream in passing and prophesies the shortly before his death to his student Khenpo Kunphel:
Now I shall not remain long in this body. After my death, in a couple of years hence, war and darkness shall cover the earth, which will have its effect even on this isolated snow land of Tibet. In thirty years time, a mad (smyo) storm of hatred will grow like a fierce black thundercloud in the land of China, and in a further decade this evil shall spill over into Tibet itself, so that Lamas, scholars, disciples and yogis will come under terrible persecution. Due to the demon-king Pehar taking power in China, darkness and terror ('bog) will come to our sacred land, with the result that violent death shall spread like a plague through every village. Then the three lords of materialism (gsum-gyi-kla-klos) and their cousins will seize power in Tibet, spreading war, famine and oppression. No one will be safe. Now, very soon, my mind-stream will be gathered up in the pure-land of Tusita, from whence many emanations [of myself] shall then come forth in future years. I shall not take rebirth in Tibet. In twenty years, seek me in the northern lands of distant Uttarakuru, and elsewhere, east, west, north and south. Fear not, we shall be re-united again, as father and son. Now go!
Seems the omnisicent Ju Mipham seems to have an insight into the events that would occur after his death, Interesting to note again as suggested Pehar is involved in creating trouble. :-\
-
Thanks Zach.
Emanations of Ju Mipham
According to one account shortly before he died, Mipham told his attendant:
Nowadays, if you speak the truth, there is nobody to listen; if you speak lies everyone thinks it is true.
This statement is valid today too. It just shows our deluded minds - when people speak the truth, no one listens and when others lie, people think it's true. A sign of our degenerate times.
I have never said this before: I am not an ordinary person; I am a bodhisattva who has taken rebirth through aspiration. The suffering experienced in this body is just the residue of karma; but from now on I will never again have to experience karmic obscuration. … Now, in this final age, the barbarians beyond the frontier are close to undermining the teaching. [So] there is no point whatsoever in my taking rebirth here…I have no reason to take birth in impure realms ever again.[12]
This may be interpreted as a statement that his mindstream would have no further 'emanations' (Wylie: sprul pa (tulpa); sprul sku (tulku)). Conversely, according to another account in which he mentions the mindstream in passing and prophesies the shortly before his death to his student Khenpo Kunphel:
Now I shall not remain long in this body. After my death, in a couple of years hence, war and darkness shall cover the earth, which will have its effect even on this isolated snow land of Tibet. In thirty years time, a mad (smyo) storm of hatred will grow like a fierce black thundercloud in the land of China, and in a further decade this evil shall spill over into Tibet itself, so that Lamas, scholars, disciples and yogis will come under terrible persecution. Due to the demon-king Pehar taking power in China, darkness and terror ('bog) will come to our sacred land, with the result that violent death shall spread like a plague through every village. Then the three lords of materialism (gsum-gyi-kla-klos) and their cousins will seize power in Tibet, spreading war, famine and oppression. No one will be safe. Now, very soon, my mind-stream will be gathered up in the pure-land of Tusita, from whence many emanations [of myself] shall then come forth in future years. I shall not take rebirth in Tibet. In twenty years, seek me in the northern lands of distant Uttarakuru, and elsewhere, east, west, north and south. Fear not, we shall be re-united again, as father and son. Now go!
Seems the omnisicent Ju Mipham seems to have an insight into the events that would occur after his death, Interesting to note again as suggested Pehar is involved in creating trouble. :-\
Hmmm I don't see Pehar taking power in China though. Do Tibetans in Tibet now (officially China) propitiate Nechung?
Do lay people propitiate Nechung?
-
Pehar may well have hastened the invasion ;)
-
Yes...this is an interesting read. He is a Nyingma Lama correct?
However, like WB said, is there any evidence of Pehar being propitiated in China?
-
It may not well directly refer to Perhar practise in china but rather that he has somehow gained a magnitude of control perhapes.
-
Hi Zach,
You've been a busy boy on the forum today :)
Where did you get this article on Ju Mipham by the way? It would be good to have the source.
Re whether Pehar hastened the invasion... well i still believe that we are all responsible for what happens to us. Tibet was invaded because Tibet had the karma to be invaded. There's no right or wrong, it just is. I think that when we accept that we are responsible for what is happening - be it the invasion of Tibet, the ostracising of Shugden practitioners, we have somehow created the karma for it so we should not blame others. Of course on the outside, it looks like it is that person's fault - i.e. China or the Dalai Lama - for our sufferings, but if we look at the bigger picture, we must have created the causes for this to happen.
-
Hi Zach,
You've been a busy boy on the forum today :)
Where did you get this article on Ju Mipham by the way? It would be good to have the source.
Re whether Pehar hastened the invasion... well i still believe that we are all responsible for what happens to us. Tibet was invaded because Tibet had the karma to be invaded. There's no right or wrong, it just is. I think that when we accept that we are responsible for what is happening - be it the invasion of Tibet, the ostracising of Shugden practitioners, we have somehow created the karma for it so we should not blame others. Of course on the outside, it looks like it is that person's fault - i.e. China or the Dalai Lama - for our sufferings, but if we look at the bigger picture, we must have created the causes for this to happen.
Its a Wikipedia article...I know its not the most reliable source but it certainly does raise some questions :)
-
There have been some accounts (like in the "Oracles and Demons" book - Rene de Nebesky-Wojkowitz) which give quite a lot of detail of how Pehar/ Nechung caused a lot of trouble for Tibet beginning in the early 1900s, which led to British invasions, for example. I think maybe this set the tide for the whole string of invasions to follow, ending eventually in China's takeover of course. So the reference could refer to this.
Appreciate you sharing this Zach. Interesting to see how the prophecies go across lineages. This problem that the Tibetans face now (in and out of Tibet) is not just a Gelugpa one, although that is how it is made to be, it is being faced by all Tibetans. The DS issue complicates and confuses it, but it all still stems from the same root place of being a displaced, country-less people, and frankly, a government that refuses to progress and move forward. That's how I see it anyway.
-
Cheers Beggar !
It also raises the question of how accomplished Pehar is, as to wether the prophecys regarding his eventual breaking of his oaths and wide spread cause of strife upon the land is infact very accurate indeed.
-
Cheers Beggar !
It also raises the question of how accomplished Pehar is, as to wether the prophecys regarding his eventual breaking of his oaths and wide spread cause of strife upon the land is infact very accurate indeed.
Zach - when/if that happens, Dorje Shugden will ride in on his snowlion and clean up the strife!
i'm still not sure which prophecy is true - that Nechung will become enlightened and then leave the way open for Dorje Shugden the King, or that he will break his oath... i guess time will tell. At least i trust in Dorje Shugden to be there for us, and for all those who have faith in him (and even those who don't!)
-
Hi Zach,
You've been a busy boy on the forum today :)
Where did you get this article on Ju Mipham by the way? It would be good to have the source.
Re whether Pehar hastened the invasion... well i still believe that we are all responsible for what happens to us. Tibet was invaded because Tibet had the karma to be invaded. There's no right or wrong, it just is. I think that when we accept that we are responsible for what is happening - be it the invasion of Tibet, the ostracising of Shugden practitioners, we have somehow created the karma for it so we should not blame others. Of course on the outside, it looks like it is that person's fault - i.e. China or the Dalai Lama - for our sufferings, but if we look at the bigger picture, we must have created the causes for this to happen.
It is true that we create the cause for what happens to us. It would be very interesting to know what was that cause that has brought such obstacle to Shugden practitioners. If the effect we see now is negative, the cause created in the past must be negative as well for the cause resembles the effect. I wonder what was the collective karma created that so many people had to suffer to practice Dorje Shugden.
-
I do have a different interpretation of Mipham Rinpoche's prophecy though. "Pehar seizing power in China", sounds to me to be Mao Tse Tung, which means he could be an emanation of Pehar or it is just Mipham Rinpoche's using Pehar's name as an epithet for the destruction that Mao Tse Tung would wreck on TIbet. It doesn't mean that Pehar or Nechung was practiced in China. However, what beggar mentioned about Pehar stirring trouble as quoted from the book, "Oracles and Demons of Tibet" seems to me to be another very plausible meaning to his prophecy.
-
I do have a different interpretation of Mipham Rinpoche's prophecy though. "Pehar seizing power in China", sounds to me to be Mao Tse Tung, which means he could be an emanation of Pehar or it is just Mipham Rinpoche's using Pehar's name as an epithet for the destruction that Mao Tse Tung would wreck on TIbet. It doesn't mean that Pehar or Nechung was practiced in China. However, what beggar mentioned about Pehar stirring trouble as quoted from the book, "Oracles and Demons of Tibet" seems to me to be another very plausible meaning to his prophecy.
Certainly is possible considering Pehar was a very powerful demon, If Ishvara has the power to emanate forms then it is not beyond reasoning that Pehar could be responsible for influencing peoples minds, For example setting the bigger picture aside for a moment it is Pehar who whispers in the Dalai lamas ear...he is not renowned for giving great advise.
-
But surely the Dalai Lama, who is clairvoyant and who we believe is an emanation of Avalokiteshvara, would know Pehar's intention when he whispers things in his ears?
Generally, I still haven't found an answer as to why Dalai Lama would choose the advice of an unenlightened being (nechung) over one who is definitively and absolutely enlightened (Dorje Shugden)...
-
But surely the Dalai Lama, who is clairvoyant and who we believe is an emanation of Avalokiteshvara, would know Pehar's intention when he whispers things in his ears?
Generally, I still haven't found an answer as to why Dalai Lama would choose the advice of an unenlightened being (nechung) over one who is definitively and absolutely enlightened (Dorje Shugden)...
It depends who you ask or what you believe. Pure view functions to prevent ordinary conceptions arising so when we view someone as an enlightened being we naturally receive the blessings of an enlightened being whether they are or not.
Here we have a set of prophecys suggestings that pehar will break his oaths and cause havoc in the land, and we have other sets suggesting that it is nearing his time to become enlightened...
Is it all just an illusory play ?
-
But surely the Dalai Lama, who is clairvoyant and who we believe is an emanation of Avalokiteshvara, would know Pehar's intention when he whispers things in his ears?
Generally, I still haven't found an answer as to why Dalai Lama would choose the advice of an unenlightened being (nechung) over one who is definitively and absolutely enlightened (Dorje Shugden)...
These are questions I've found puzzling myself. Even if let's say the Dalai Lama wouldn't want to propitiate Dorje Shugden, why not propitiate Palden Lhamo as an enlightened Protector instead of Nechung?
Also, as Pehar is under oath - is there a time limit for the oath, so it expires? Or can Pehar break the oath meaning the oath isn't that powerful? Or the power fades over time?
Zach - the only way for me to make sense of it sometimes is really that - that everything is an illusory play..
-
Emanations of Ju Mipham
According to one account shortly before he died, Mipham told his attendant:
Nowadays, if you speak the truth, there is nobody to listen; if you speak lies everyone thinks it is true. I have never said this before: I am not an ordinary person; I am a bodhisattva who has taken rebirth through aspiration. The suffering experienced in this body is just the residue of karma; but from now on I will never again have to experience karmic obscuration. … Now, in this final age, the barbarians beyond the frontier are close to undermining the teaching. [So] there is no point whatsoever in my taking rebirth here…I have no reason to take birth in impure realms ever again.[12]
As times become more degenerate, many people find it increasingly difficult to believe the truth. It is evident today that many people do not believe in karma or the law of cause and effect. Many people do not believe in the high possibility of taking rebirth in the 3 lower realms. Many people still think that it is OK to kill and eat animals.
Ignorance is pervasive and the truth becomes increasingly not appealing to people. The tendency of people to succumb to their attachments and delusions becomes stronger and stronger.
In such situation, people will not be receptive to Dharma teachings or any teachings concerning the truth. Therefore, Ju Mipham forsee that the situation in Tibet then was such and he saw no point of him taking rebirth there. This is goes to show that high beings whose main purpose of taking controlled rebirth in samsara is to benefit ordinary beings, would not choose to born in a place where the karma of the people is such that truth teachings would not appeal to them.
This ties in with what is said about "the teacher will only appear when the student is ready". Therefore, we can conclude that whether a high being appears and teaches or turn the Wheel of Dharma depends on the karma of the people of that certain time and location.
-
Emanations of Ju Mipham
According to one account shortly before he died, Mipham told his attendant:
Nowadays, if you speak the truth, there is nobody to listen; if you speak lies everyone thinks it is true. I have never said this before: I am not an ordinary person; I am a bodhisattva who has taken rebirth through aspiration. The suffering experienced in this body is just the residue of karma; but from now on I will never again have to experience karmic obscuration. … Now, in this final age, the barbarians beyond the frontier are close to undermining the teaching. [So] there is no point whatsoever in my taking rebirth here…I have no reason to take birth in impure realms ever again.[12]
This may be interpreted as a statement that his mindstream would have no further 'emanations' (Wylie: sprul pa (tulpa); sprul sku (tulku)). Conversely, according to another account in which he mentions the mindstream in passing and prophesies the shortly before his death to his student Khenpo Kunphel:
Now I shall not remain long in this body. After my death, in a couple of years hence, war and darkness shall cover the earth, which will have its effect even on this isolated snow land of Tibet. In thirty years time, a mad (smyo) storm of hatred will grow like a fierce black thundercloud in the land of China, and in a further decade this evil shall spill over into Tibet itself, so that Lamas, scholars, disciples and yogis will come under terrible persecution. Due to the demon-king Pehar taking power in China, darkness and terror ('bog) will come to our sacred land, with the result that violent death shall spread like a plague through every village. Then the three lords of materialism (gsum-gyi-kla-klos) and their cousins will seize power in Tibet, spreading war, famine and oppression. No one will be safe. Now, very soon, my mind-stream will be gathered up in the pure-land of Tusita, from whence many emanations [of myself] shall then come forth in future years. I shall not take rebirth in Tibet. In twenty years, seek me in the northern lands of distant Uttarakuru, and elsewhere, east, west, north and south. Fear not, we shall be re-united again, as father and son. Now go!
Seems the omnisicent Ju Mipham seems to have an insight into the events that would occur after his death, Interesting to note again as suggested Pehar is involved in creating trouble. :-\
-
Perhaps it like what was prophesied by Ju Mipham
Nowadays, if you speak the truth, there is nobody to listen; if you speak lies everyone thinks it is true. I have never said this before: I am not an ordinary person
is exactly what the Dalai Lama did in order to spread Dorje Shugden to the world's biggest population..."CHINA"?
How else could He have done so without displeasing the political issues of different sects/schools? Perhaps this is the very method the Dalai Lama is using to make Dorje Shugden grow and in just a few years gain such huge media attention?
Could all this be the workings of Nechung and the Dalai Lama to pave the way for the the future King Dharma Protector? Something already premeditated? Hmmmm... just a crazy thought!
-
Emanations of Ju Mipham
According to one account shortly before he died, Mipham told his attendant:
Nowadays, if you speak the truth, there is nobody to listen; if you speak lies everyone thinks it is true. I have never said this before: I am not an ordinary person; I am a bodhisattva who has taken rebirth through aspiration. The suffering experienced in this body is just the residue of karma; but from now on I will never again have to experience karmic obscuration. … Now, in this final age, the barbarians beyond the frontier are close to undermining the teaching. [So] there is no point whatsoever in my taking rebirth here…I have no reason to take birth in impure realms ever again.[12]
This may be interpreted as a statement that his mindstream would have no further 'emanations' (Wylie: sprul pa (tulpa); sprul sku (tulku)). Conversely, according to another account in which he mentions the mindstream in passing and prophesies the shortly before his death to his student Khenpo Kunphel:
Now I shall not remain long in this body. After my death, in a couple of years hence, war and darkness shall cover the earth, which will have its effect even on this isolated snow land of Tibet. In thirty years time, a mad (smyo) storm of hatred will grow like a fierce black thundercloud in the land of China, and in a further decade this evil shall spill over into Tibet itself, so that Lamas, scholars, disciples and yogis will come under terrible persecution. Due to the demon-king Pehar taking power in China, darkness and terror ('bog) will come to our sacred land, with the result that violent death shall spread like a plague through every village. Then the three lords of materialism (gsum-gyi-kla-klos) and their cousins will seize power in Tibet, spreading war, famine and oppression. No one will be safe. Now, very soon, my mind-stream will be gathered up in the pure-land of Tusita, from whence many emanations [of myself] shall then come forth in future years. I shall not take rebirth in Tibet. In twenty years, seek me in the northern lands of distant Uttarakuru, and elsewhere, east, west, north and south. Fear not, we shall be re-united again, as father and son. Now go!
Seems the omnisicent Ju Mipham seems to have an insight into the events that would occur after his death, Interesting to note again as suggested Pehar is involved in creating trouble. :-\
Wow. This is very very interesting.
For a very long time i realize that HHDL has been acting in such a way about the ban as if he was doing it to show someone or something that he is against Dorje Shugden and he was forced to do so. His statements are half hearted, and so are his actions with regards to the ban. He has also did a lot of very unbuddhist things in the name of the ban, and every time he brings up Dorje Shugden he would insert clauses that ask people to investigate before believing, as if he was being forced to say it and he can only covertly indicate that he is not against Dorje Shugden. I have noticed this odd behavior again and again. The second odd thing was Pehar speaking very badly against Dorje Shugden when he was the same entity that requested Dorje Shugden to manifest as a protector. How can he go against his word and go against what he 'stood up for' in the past? Also, Pehar has only gone inaccurate slightly before the Chinese came, and he has been inaccurate ever since. Why would the Dalai Lama still trust him? Perhaps, to keep him from harming more people?
To me, the whole thing sounds very odd and there is a lot of questions left unanswered. If Pehar is the cause of all this mess and is threatening the Dalai Lama, and also pointing CTA and the Tibetans to their doom, why isnt anyone doing anything about it? The prophecy about China did came through, assuming that it was a symbolic description of the communist invasion and the cultural revolution, but now everything has died down and Tibet is not suffering as badly as it used to be. I am not sure about the Pehar part being symbolic, but the suffering of the Tibetans and CTA came from centuries of wrong choices, mistakes and not adhering to the Dharma.
-
Its a matter of time that the world will know the plot behind Dalai Lama's instruction to ban Dorje Shugden's practise by declaring easily see through excuses such as Dorje Shugden is a spirit (well, isn't Nechung is not enligthened??) And practising Dorje Shugden can shorten Dalai Lama's life? How can an elightened being such as Dalai Lama can be harmed by practising evil spirit? So there you go.
-
The Issue remains unpressed. Perhaps this is more about Pehar because according to Ju Mipham it is Pehar whom is the trouble causer and the downfall of tibet, It is through Pehar's bad advise that much disharmony has been caused and the previous Dalai lama died and ever since the advise has been disastrous if not untrue.
It is time for Pehar to go.
-
There is also an interesting dimension to this theory, that a tulku who has been wronged and who has intense hatred towards the 13th Dalai Lama and wanted to kill him actually impersonated nechung and that nechung's inaccuracies started during then. Perhaps this was the "Pehar" that Ju Mipham predicted? But if this is true, then why is it that no high lama ever realized or recognized as they can see who is going into the oracle? What do you think?
Nechung’s Follies, Nyagtru’s Revenge
Omitted so far from this essay is Bell’s account of a scapegoat for the Nechung oracle’s mistaken actions and advice. First, it is necessary to understand a rather unfortunate political intrigue earlier in the life of the 13th Dalai Lama that has been recounted in various books; the account also has been active orally with older monks and lamas. Although it could be dismissed as superstition, any Tibetan history book of that era would be incomplete without it. Melvin Goldstein’s History of Modern Tibet, 1913-1951 (pages 42-43) summarizes this incident, this account being more sympathetic to Demo Rimpoche’s motivation than others:
No sooner had the 13th Dalai Lama become the ruler of Tibet than Demo Rimpoche, the regent of the 13th Dalai Lama’s minority, attempted to regain power by killing him through Buddhist black magic. It appears that after Demo Rimpoche relinquished power to the 13th Dalai Lama, his enemies began to exact revenge on him by harming his supporters and friends. Helpless to protect them, the ex-regent and his brother and manager, Norbu Tsering, became increasingly frustrated and bitter. Norbu Tsering enlisted the help of a lama known as Nyagtru, from Nyarong in Eastern Tibet, who used the deity Shinje Tsheda in his black magic rites and ultimately prepared a particularly powerful mantra which consisted of the figure of a man with outstretched arms and legs. Surrounding this figure were various written mantras, and inside its body the words Thubten Gyatso and chiwa were written: Thubten Gyatso was the personal name of the 13th Dalai Lama, and chiwa was his birth year. This black mantra was put inside the sole of a beautiful pair of new boots which Demo Rinpoche sent as a gift to Sogya, another Khamba lama who had achieved a high level of spiritual development through the diety Shinje Tsheda and whose own spiritual development, it was believed would synergistically increase the power of the black magic and end the Dalai Lama’s life.
But this plot was perhaps successfully foiled by the Nechung Oracle, per Goldstein:
The official version of the incident reports that the state oracle, Nechung, prophesied that the Dalai Lama’s life was in danger and that the boots recently given to a Sogya Lama should be investigated. Sogya was summoned and he confirmed that he had received the boots; he added that the boots were strange, for when he put them on his nose started to bleed. The boots were immediately sent for and taken apart in front of everybody, and the mantra was found in the inner sole. It appears more likely, however, that Sogya Lama discovered the plot and informed the Dalai Lama or his officials and that Nechung then opened the soles and found the black magic mantra.
Goldstein’s account states that as a result Demo Rimpoche, Norbu Tsering, Nyagtru and others were arrested. Demo Rimpoche died while under house arrest, while Nyagtru and Norbu Tsering died later or were perhaps killed. Sir Charles Bell relates the same previous story in brief, but continues where the previous account ends. In particular, he writes that Nyagtru’s death was indeed violent (page 437):
The tulku was arrested, put in prison, and given many severe floggings with the usual leather thongs on his bare skin, so that his flesh hung in strips after each flogging. But he was a Lama of great learning and ability, and he used to meditate on ‘the void.’ So it was noticed that during each flogging, severe though it was, he uttered no exclamation of pain, not even the smallest sound. And what was still more remarkable, by the next day his flesh had entirely healed.
And, per Bell’s account, the monk escapes this situation through suicide. Yet another source states that he died after vivisection at the hands of his captors:
At length, however, angry in this treatment, the Nyarong tulku asked the warder in charge of him for a small knife to cut a lump out of his boot. The warder gave it. When the lama went to pay a call of nature, he used the opportunity to cut his throat. The warder rushed up to seize him, so the lama jumped out of the window of his cell, which was two floors above the ground. The fall killed him.
Although Nyagtru dies here, the import of the story is only beginning. Bell continues:
Passing from this life thus, in anger at the treatment he had received, he reincarnated as a devil, and being of great learning and ability, as a powerful devil. So a high lama of eastern Tibet was engaged to catch the tulku’s mind, put it in the ground, and build a choten over it. This was done; the choten was strongly built, and the necessary articles - religious books and the like were placed inside of it. But a day or two afterwards a great vertical crack was seen in the choten. There had been no earthquake or thunderstorm, and it was clear that the devil was one of great power, and so the mind was able to crack the choten and escape through it.
And this “devil,” according to Bell’s account was responsible for interfering with the Nechung Oracle:
This and other evil counsels were not the true utterances of the Oracle, but were put into the mind of the prophet by this evil. And it was this devil who instigated the prophet to give this deadly medicine.
I first heard of Nyagtru’s tale from an old Shugden lama. Given its superstitious nature, I was naturally skeptical about it. Yet upon seeing this in Bell’s account, written not long after Dalai Lama’s death, it legitimized its historical provenance, whether it is actually true or not. Finally, regarding the so-called devil Nyagtru, Bell states, “This is the only instance which I heard that a tulku had been reborn as a devil.” The implications of this statement are great, namely that if the 13th Dalai Lama considered Dorje Shugden as a demon or devil—as the 14th Dalai Lama suggests he did—then certainly the 13th would have recounted to Bell the allegation of Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen also having been reborn as a devil.