dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: WisdomBeing on March 31, 2011, 12:31:47 AM
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I was asked this question recently and my immediate reaction was of course not! In fact, it is the actual opposite - the benefits I have received from his practice are startling and too many to be a coincidence. Then I thought - all this criticism of Dorje Shugden being an evil practice, demonic, angry spirit etc - I have not heard of anyone who has experienced harm from his or her practice of this deity. I have not read about anything negative happening as a result of the practice of Dorje Shugden. So what is the actual issue?
From the biographies of the great masters such as Pabongkha Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche, it doesn't appear that they suffered from this practice either and there definitely hasn't been much hellfire and brimstone because they reincarnate back very quickly.
Is this practice schismatic and sectarian? No - the only schism created is when people wish to separate from Shugden practitioners out of a misguided sense of loyalty to the Dalai Lama.
I hope that all those who think that Dorje Shugden practice is evil etc will take the time to learn about the truth about Dorje Shugden, and about the history and lineage of Dorje Shugden. There is so much information online - and this website is a great resource for anyone to learn - with the opportunity to discuss in this very forum.
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Good post.
I have not experienced any negative effects since I took up Shugden as my protector. I didn't experience bad dreams re him or ill omens of any sort.
In fact there has been quite a few times where Shugden decisively assisted me in the nick of time. It was not my imagination.
And as for next life and going to the three lower realms for worshipping Shugden, well there are many lamas/monks who practiced Shugden and their incarnation's are back and some recognized by the Dalai Lama! If I was the Dalai Lama, I would not recognize incarnations of heavy Shugden practitioners. As it contradicts with what I said that Shugden is a spirit.
If you say worshipping Shugden is degenerating Buddhism as it is a spirit worship, then those who have been practicing should not be found. How can you recognize those practicing Shugden when it shows there is no ill effects. By finding them and recognizing them, it shows your wrong. There is no ill effects of practicing Shugden.
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Yes, What an intriguing question. Thank you WisdomBeing. I have never experienced any harm from Dorje Shugden. In fact, I think he always protects me when i need it most and offers me challenges so I mature spiritually. There are times when things are really bad for me, all i have to do is a black tea and I would see things improve rapidly.
Although, I am not the best of practitioners but he is always patient with me and never punishes me. In fact, when I am really sad and despondent, I will have a comforting dream and I think it is to remind me that he is there for me. Talking about this makes me feel fortunate to have met with such a close and affectionate Protector. He is really unlike anything they say about him at all.
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Big Uncle, yes I agree that Dorje Shugden does not punish - only our karma 'punishes' us. As Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being, he would never harm us, even if we do not propitiate him regularly or make offerings or break our commitments. I believe that if we do not propitiate him regularly, we simply do not create the causes for Dorje Shugden to help us as easily. So it is not dependent on whether he wishes or does not wish for us to benefit, but whether we create the karma for our own benefit.
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Never. Only protection.
Ive had great fortune to be able to receive indications in dreams from him to...If one classes his advise to me when i was lost for practise of what to do ( Begin, progress, and complete ) Lamrim, Lojong, Mahamudra does this qualify as something a demon would want you to do or someone that wishes you harm would advise ? ::)
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Definitely not. Ever since I came onto this website and downloaded the brochure and started this practice, my life has improved tremendously. I may not be a good practitioner, but Dorje Shugden has helped me on many occasions which I don't think it's just a coincidence.
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Thank you WB for posting this thread. Personally, I have experienced no harm whatsoever from my dear protector. In fact, he has been my greatest guilding light during a very difficult time in my life and he has been helping me every little step since then.
I share the same thoughts with WB and Thaimonk, how can people call Dorje Shugden an evil spirit when all he brings to his practitioners are help and benefits. The most obvious fact is that all the high lamas like Trijang Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche and many more who were Shugden practitioners all came back and they did not go to hell. :) :) Many of which are even recongnised by the Dalai Lama himself. So what is the logic of saying Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit and Shugden practitioners are playing with black magic??? I really don't get this???
We really welcome those who do not know who Dorje Shugden is to visit this website which has a comprehensive information on the history of Dorje Shugden, the lineage masters, and an array of testimonials on how Dorje Shugden has helped or saved their lives.
Instead of just blindly following what seems to be like a juicy gossip, why not find out for yourself the true facts. Nothing is better than the truth as it stands firm and solid.
The greatest gift in my life is to have met my dearest protector, Dorje Shugden.
I hope many more practitioners will comeforth and share their experience with DS practice here.
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From the biographies of the great masters such as Pabongkha Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche, it doesn't appear that they suffered from this practice either and there definitely hasn't been much hellfire and brimstone because they reincarnate back very quickly.
It's true, they have not suffered from His practice. Apparently in Trijang Rinpoche's short biography, it states that Trijang Rinpoche prepared for his death 2 weeks (or was it 2 months?) before he entered into clear light. He did a few pujas, of which one of them was a Dorje Shugden puja where he thanked DS for everything that He has helped Trijang Rinpoche in that life. Trijang Rinpoche also gave extensive offerings in thanks. His attendants and the monks who attended the puja heard the verbal "Thank You" to Dorje Shugden. (Do correct me if I'm wrong, by the way)
I have not experienced any harm from doing Dorje Shugden's practice. On the contrary, I feel extremely protected doing His practice. Like having an omniscient big brother who is unfaltering, even though I am.
My family has been protected and saved, and so have I. I'd be extremely ungrateful to say that his practice brings harm coz it does not.
Everyday I visualize Dorje Shugden as one with my guru, at the top of my head, facing forward, and as bright as the sun descending to my heart and then the light disperses to the tips of my body.
It's an odd way of visualizing and I don't even know if it's correct - but it makes me feel safe for the rest of the day. So, no, no harm at all from Dorje Shugden's practice. Rather the opposite.
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Dear friends,
Ever since I got to know about Dorje Shugden from Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's Heart Jewel, I've always felt the closeness of this protector and I felt that it has protected me from many dangerous situations, the one that I recalled clearly would be to make my cab driver stop in time and not hit into another car while I was on my way to a very important business meeting.
I also know a few DS practitioners who said that not only themselves, but their loved ones too have been saved by Dorje Shugden.
I have full faith that this protector who protected many glorious Dharma masters like HH Trijang Rinpoche, HH Pabongkha Rinpoche and saved the life of His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama cannot bring harm to anyone.
I think my experience is nothing "special" as there are many testimonials here on this website about how Dorje Shugden has helped them in many ways: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=5072 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=5072) . It is just amazing that this practice is so simple and yet can benefit many.
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Thank you Wisdom Being for starting this tread.I totally agree that people who imagine Dharmapala Dorje Shugden to be a malevolent spirit or its equivalent, should seek to know the truth about him by viewing, listening to and reading the contents of this website. This website gives all the information on Dorje Shugden in a clear and unequivocal manner.
Practitioners of the Protector have found only benefit from doing His practice.My own personal encounter with the great compassion and kindness of Dorje Shugden has been most amazing and comforting. It was at a time when I had just come to know him. He left no shadow of a doubt that he was there when a loved one passed away. He it was who ensured that my beloved relative had a calm and peaceful end although it seemed, in the beginning, like it was going to be a troubled and difficult death. He is deeply entrenched in my 'psyche', where he is one with my beloved guru.
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Never ever.
What an utterly stupid thing to imagine, an enlightened being harming you.
Dorje Shugden has not just saved my life, but my sanity. He comforts me, protects me and puts my mind at ease; when I am in trouble, I never worry because I know Dorje Shugden has got my back. He is like my mother and father all rolled into one. All I need to do is think of him, and he comes.
Someone asked me the other day if I could give up my practice. In short, hell no. If I give up a practice my lama has given me, where does it stop? What else will I give up? Because doing so creates the causes for me to give up my other practices and if I keep giving stuff up, eventually I will give up my lama...and then I will give up the source of any attainments I might possible achieve. Because to give up Protector practice is to slap the faces of all the lamas on the Guru tree, because Dorje Shugden came from under Tsongkhapa's throne.
I don't have the level of ingratitude in me to snub all of the help he has ever given to me. As long as he does not forsake me, I will not forsake him.
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WB, this is such an excellent thread! I love this and I sincerely thank you for putting this topic up.
I feel it is so important for as many people as possible to know and learn of how Dorje Shugden has not harm a single soul and that all Dorje Shugden practitioners have only benefited from this Protector Practice.
The mass public does not understand why we would not give up our practice, especially when they are so used to hearing the unpleasant stories of how Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit and etc.
When we share our own personal experiences, we can refute the widely circulated un-true stories of Dorje Shugden. This is one of the many ways we can show or return our gratitude to our Protector, who has really done nothing, but help us since the very day we 'met' HIM.
I really love what WB wrote below :-
Dorje Shugden does not punish - only our karma 'punishes' us. As Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being, he would never harm us, even if we do not propitiate him regularly or make offerings or break our commitments. I believe that if we do not propitiate him regularly, we simply do not create the causes for Dorje Shugden to help us as easily. So it is not dependent on whether he wishes or does not wish for us to benefit, but whether we create the karma for our own benefit.
The above statement says it all for me.
I have NEVER experienced anything remotely bad with Dorje Shugden. Whatever bad situations or experiences I have experienced were caused by my own past karma and myself. In fact, when I realised what I have done wrong, I often turned to Dorje Shugden for help. Although no Enlightened Being can remove my bad karma, what Dorje Shugden has done for me is give me ways and resources to get myself back onto the right path and correct my past mistakes.
I only wish and pray that more people could see, read and understand how precious and wonderful this Dharmapala REALLY is.
When more people realise this, Dorje Shugden can even be of great help to them. Seriously, who would not need help when we are so stuck in samsara? All of us could use all the help we can get.
Thank you so much, WB. I deeply appreciate this thread.
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If Dorje Shugden was a spirit, the oracles of Dorje Shugden should very ill being possessed by a spirit.
Spirits arose from negative circumstances, looking at the Dorje Shugden oracles you can see that they are really healthy, strong full of vitality.
Everytime I offer black tea to Dorje Shugden , yes some days are tough but somehow one is able to overcome it. And I have come out learning from the experience of that difficult day! Which matches the role of a protector to remove obstacles and create conditions for one to grow!
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Never! All that bullsh&$t that Dorje Shugden harms practitioners is all lies. I am shocked that people believe so easily. The Buddha taught that we must ask questions until we are completely satisfied.
Can't say that today's so called practitioners are practicing this one point.
Helloooooo,
DS saved the Dalai Lama by giving accurate advice every step of the way when the DL was fleeing tibet, read Trijang Rinpoche's bio, the DL guru himself names DS as the protector who advised them.
Doesn't sound like harm to me but preservation.
On my side nothing untoward, life threatening or otherwise has ever happened. DS has helped me with legal matters, financial matters, stabilising my mind when it was running wild.
What do these anti DS people do in return? So ungrateful, makes me wanna bash someone!
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Dorje Shugden has never ever harmed me. On the contrary, he has given me so much protection physically and in my spiritual path. The were quite a few times I have almost got into an accident but I managed to avoid it at the nick of time.
Things have not been always smooth in my life. However, when I look back, on hindsight, the adversity I went through made me realize many things which I would never have if situation had been good all the time. In that way, Dorje Shugden gave me what I needed and has arranged the necessary condition for my spiritual development.
In the past, I believe that Dorje Shugden has even led me to my guru and my spiritual home. It is through time I know how much Dorje Shugden has helped and watched over me.
The things some people said about Dorje Shugden being an evil spirit that is malevolent and harmful does not convince me because from my own experience I know for a fact that he is not.
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Ohhh never harm. Dorje Shugden in fact protected me from so many harm and so many misfortunes!!!
If it was not Dorje Shugden I bet I would have had a very very bad marriage, perhaps even separated by now. He has also helped my sister countless of times... every time she does his puja when he luck is down or she is in desperate need of some kind of help... he would immediately help and very quickly her situation would change very fast.
Also almost died in a very bad car accident, the car was a goner, me, not a scratch.
So yeah this is my testimony that Dorje Shugden is always there watching, protecting and always pushes one towards the Dharma more and more. It is like that is his only main goal. Keeping you safe so that you can do more Dharma practice. If it was not for Dorje Shugden's protection and guidance, a lot of my negative karma would have exploded by now. He is so kind and compassionate to want to even protect me from the smallest of harm just so I am ok and can do my dharma. Amazingly compassionate...not harm.
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Ohhh never harm. Dorje Shugden in fact protected me from so many harm and so many misfortunes!!!
If it was not Dorje Shugden I bet I would have had a very very bad marriage, perhaps even separated by now. He has also helped my sister countless of times... every time she does his puja when he luck is down or she is in desperate need of some kind of help... he would immediately help and very quickly her situation would change very fast.
Also almost died in a very bad car accident, the car was a goner, me, not a scratch.
So yeah this is my testimony that Dorje Shugden is always there watching, protecting and always pushes one towards the Dharma more and more. It is like that is his only main goal. Keeping you safe so that you can do more Dharma practice. If it was not for Dorje Shugden's protection and guidance, a lot of my negative karma would have exploded by now. He is so kind and compassionate to want to even protect me from the smallest of harm just so I am ok and can do my dharma. Amazingly compassionate...not harm.
Dear dsiluvu, how fortunate that you have Dorje Shugden to protect you from so many misfortunes and harm that you experienced. Dorje Shugden is so compassionate and will never hurt or harm anyone who does his practice.
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Ah... a good post from a very wise being! Gives a lot to think about.
People have a lot of mistaken thoughts about Protector practice. Sometimes, when people start a protector practice, they might experience some signs of purification and for a short while, things may actually get a little bit worse before it becomes better.
It is mistaken to think that this is because the Protector and the practice is causing us harm. It is the opposite. When these supposed bad things rise up, it is a good sign. It means that our practice is effective and something is happening. It means our karma is arising and clearing, which is good because it is purifying while we have the support of our practice and it is in controlled circumstances (we must consider how much worse the karma would be if it arose when we are in an uncontrolled situation, with no practice to protect us).
It is important to have faith always that the Dharmapalas help us at the most beneficial and the most high level. Even if we cannot understand what is happening yet, we have to understand that it is for an ultimate benefit and to help us in a spiritual sense, not just a worldly sense.
If we are committed and persevere, we will see and receive good results. the purification brings up and then clears obstacles, and then clears the way for positive results to come.
It is also very important to keep all this in mind so we don't react negatively to any possible obstacle and purification that comes up. If we react badly, we just create more and more negative karma and create the harm for ourselves. As it has been said before in previous posts, we create our own harm... it is never the Dharmapala.
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This practice has given me peace of mind, focus and resolve. I have recently been addressing some difficult personal situations. I accept that when things are difficult and our minds get clouded it is karma. I relate it truly to the meaning of cause and effect. For good things to happen we create the causes for it by doing good things. Similarly, the bad things in life also are created by the causes of our actions.
Whenever I am in tough situations it feels like no solution is foreseeable. The amazing thing is that when I do my dorje shugden prayers, solutions and options come clearly to me. This has happened to me not once but many many times. Initially I thought it was mere coincidence but after many such "enlightening" moments, it was clear to me my Protector was helping me and giving me solutions to be happy.
So, the word "harm" and dorje shugden are not suited to be in the same sentence.
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It is IMPOSSIBLE any practice that comes from His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche can do any harm. His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche's various Buddha activities of composing, teaching, meditating clearly shows the level of his attainments. His various other activities of creating oracles, sponsoring dharma activities, composing the National anthem of Tibet, etc all strictly benefit others.
Harm only comes from self created causes. If there is no cause, there can be no result. No god, no deity, no lama, no power within existence can bring you sufferings if you did not have the causes already within you.
The self-empowering teachings of Buddha is universal that it can apply to all life and all situations.
Dorje Shugden can never harm because His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche has thoroughly 'checked' this practice and he approves. Simple.
TK
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I'm so thankful and greatful to this website and the people who maintain and keep us all connected. As a relatively newcomer i am sponging it in. With these added insights to the text truly invaluable.
Is is really so simple
- set a good motivation
- be sincere / do no harm
- make requests / do prayers
- thanksgiving for wishes fulfilled.
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It is IMPOSSIBLE any practice that comes from His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche can do any harm. His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche's various Buddha activities of composing, teaching, meditating clearly shows the level of his attainments. His various other activities of creating oracles, sponsoring dharma activities, composing the National anthem of Tibet, etc all strictly benefit others.
Harm only comes from self created causes. If there is no cause, there can be no result. No god, no deity, no lama, no power within existence can bring you sufferings if you did not have the causes already within you.
The self-empowering teachings of Buddha is universal that it can apply to all life and all situations.
Dorje Shugden can never harm because His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche has thoroughly 'checked' this practice and he approves. Simple.
TK
I agree with everything that is said.
Also, If we start doubting this one practice by HH Trijang Rinpoche, then that's the end of any other practices and teachings, taught by HH Trijang Rinpoche because they would all come from a tainted source. However, this is not the case. This great lama gave us this practice, which he himself have practiced for many lifetimes with results.
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Whenever we experience arising of cleansing karma, View the situation as Dorje shugden Yamantaka wrathfully purifying your negativity, In such a way every situation we can gain benifit from ! :D
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Whenever we experience arising of cleansing karma, View the situation as Dorje shugden Yamantaka wrathfully purifying your negativity, In such a way every situation we can gain benifit from ! :D
I agree. It's also really good to remember not to blame others (including the Buddhas!) for our bad "misfortunes".
I had a friend who said how after doing a protector (Yamantaka) practice, his situation didn't get better... his sister lost her job, his parents financial situation was still grim. AND HE BLAME IT ALL ON THE PROTECTOR!!
How silly! I thought to myself, what does "your parents financial situation and your sister losing a job" have anything to do with it? Why not blame a neighbourhood robbery or even global warming on the protector, while you're at it!
It's true what you said, when we do our practice (sincerely and with a good motivation) negativities and obstacles may arise. I remember reading somewhere that: in the monastery, if you were faced with some troubles or problems, the more senior and older monks would say that you're very lucky.
Initially I was quite taken aback upon reading it, then it explained how lucky the monks are to face an obstacle in a more contained and controlled situation, like that in a monastery and in the life where you're serving and practicing the Dharma.
If we practice sincerely, (like what ZachW says) we should see obstacles as purifying our negativity - not blaming it on enlightened beings.
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I'm so thankful and greatful to this website and the people who maintain and keep us all connected. As a relatively newcomer i am sponging it in. With these added insights to the text truly invaluable.
Is is really so simple
- set a good motivation
- be sincere / do no harm
- make requests / do prayers
- thanksgiving for wishes fulfilled.
Hi Roberto,
Yes, actually the basic principles are very simple - we are the ones who complicate things in our daily lives and mess it up with our attachments, delusions, likes, dislikes, angers, ego.... :D
What is important is to not just practise these things while we are sitting in front of our altar. We should maintain this all the time, throughout the day in all our different activities, even in something very ordinary like washing our car.
The dharmapala practices help us to create situation where we can practice with no obstacles, so we can practise these things all the time. Sometimes, it can mean very peaceful situations for us to practice to the best of our ability. Sometimes, it can also be very difficult, even violent situations where we are "tested" and where there is no way but to get stronger and put our learnings into practice.
In every situation, if we have faith in our dharmapala, commitment to his practice and conviction that he can help us (yes, he definitely can!), then every moment and encounter and situation throughout the day is an opportunity to practise the lamrim, lojong, yidam etc It is very complete!
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I have yet to be harmed by this so called "Spirit", all i feel is a sense of protection and warm feeling whenever I think of Him.
Maybe its wishful thinking, maybe its virgin jitters being so new to the practice. Which brings me to another question.
Can my karma be sooo bad that even a Dharma Protector can not help? I mean, if someething bad happens would it be like a christian sense, oh the devil did it and god wants us to learn from it...but from the buddhist perspective its my karma ripening, and I just didn't have the merits for a Dharma Protector to help me?
The Atheists will have a field day on this one.
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Thankyou for posting this. It really made me think a lot regarding the ban on Shugden practice and has cleared many of m doubts. True enough, if Shugden is an evil spirit; how can high lamas get reincarnated very quickly and recognized by H.H himself??? This made a lot of sense and if Shugden is really a spirit, there are sure ways to subdue him. If not, why should Shugden's practice be banned?
I am new to the practice and I have not experienced any "disturbance" (if Shugden is a spirit); in fact it has helped my practice to become more stable, mindful and conditions are more favourable. If is not protector, then who else can it be? Unless me myself have been worshiping hundreds of different deities... I regard this as a rare chance to meet a protector like this and we should truthfully cherish it. We shouldn't have doubts as the practice has been proven by many highly attained masters already. With pure motivation and faith, it will only make our practice easier and gain results.
Barzin
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Recently, I received an email from a FB Friend warning about me about practising and believing in UN-Enlightened Spirits and that I may be harmed in the end. I was not angry or upset as I am sure this person had sincere concerns.
It is obvious that a lot of people still do not see the 'logic of reality'. What's the reality as it is?
1) If Dorje Shugden is a harmful spirit, then everyone who has practised Dorje Shugden would most definitely not have the karma to return again, especially the High Tulkus. So, how does anyone explain this fact when they keep seeing the high Lamas returning again? How could they all return in the first place?
2) If everyone has ever been harmed by Dorje Shugden, surely these people would have given up a long time ago on their own accord. There won't be any need for a ban at all. People would automatically abandon because they would have experienced no good results from it. However, this is not the case. The reality is that they are all back and no one is willing to give Dorje Shugden's practice up at all. In fact, they are all protesting about it and upset. No one wants to give up.
3) If Dorje Shugden is harmful, how can more Dorje Shugden monasteries appear or be built? If something is bad, surely, it will bring about bad results too. It is just a matter of time for harmful actions or deeds to 'produce' bad results that everyone can see. Cause and effect. But we do not see bad results from practising Dorje Shugden or holding our devotion to Dorje Shugden. We only see the bad results the ban on Dorje Shugden has created. This is the biggest difference and it is as clear as day.
How long do others and TGIE want to continue in this blatant denial?
T
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NO! How can a protector harm us? How can an enlightened being harm us? Why would he want to do so?
i actually thought of this before... We actually can get harm from spirits, real people and objects. But If we have never broken our samaya and do our practice diligently, I would say that none of the above can really harm us... In the end, we all know that it is all controlled by our karma. So if the people who believed that Shugden is a spirit, therefore if they do their practice well and hold their guru samaya well. The "spirit" shugden can not and should not harm you. So i would assume those with broken commitments and samayas might have experienced some harmful experiences with spirits or maybe just some bad obstacles before. But how can we prove that it is from the "spirit" Shugden? I would say by having broken commitments, there should be more spirits/obstacles disturbances rather than just the "spirit" Shugden alone.
So base on that, those who know and worshipped Shugden as a compassionate enlightened being. I would say we all gotten our answer already. Dorje Shugden will only help us, guide us, lead us to enlightenment and purify our negative karma as long as we keep our guru samaya clean and do our practice properly.
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Dorje Shugden's practice increases study, contemplation, practice of guru devotion, spread Lobsang's stainless tradition. And that has been the emphasis of my practice ever since I received Dorje Shugden as my Protector. I have not received any harm, or bad dreams, and the anxieties attacks which I used to experience have stopped. From the benefits which i have received, i will not stop practicing.
For the future benefits that I will be protected in my next life, I fully trust the illustrious lamas such as Pabongkha Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche, Dagom Rinpoche, and so many other monks and practitioners, some with titles and many with no big titles but have gained attainments. The attainments they have are proofs that what they are practicing is right and most beneficial.
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Actually, I do notice one thing about Dorje Shugden practice. When he is about bestow something big and beneficial unto our laps, there would be a period of obstacles and problems. Perhaps, it is purification and perhaps it is to gather the merits for us to be able to enjoy and make the most out of what's been bestowed. On the other hand, the struggles we encounter strengthen our resolve and deepen our insight. Somehow Dorje Shugden ensures the right amount of struggle so we grow, mature and progress. Even the problems or harm we get are a blessing in disguise! How kind and skillful Dorje Shugden can be! He is indeed Manjushri and we should all take refuge in such a sublime being.
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Actually, I do notice one thing about Dorje Shugden practice. When he is about bestow something big and beneficial unto our laps, there would be a period of obstacles and problems. Perhaps, it is purification and perhaps it is to gather the merits for us to be able to enjoy and make the most out of what's been bestowed. On the other hand, the struggles we encounter strengthen our resolve and deepen our insight. Somehow Dorje Shugden ensures the right amount of struggle so we grow, mature and progress. Even the problems or harm we get are a blessing in disguise! How kind and skillful Dorje Shugden can be! He is indeed Manjushri and we should all take refuge in such a sublime being.
I have noticed that too. I think it takes two actually. Dorje Shugden ensures the right amount of struggle so we grow, but it's also up to us and how we approach the struggle. If we give up and fail, we can't blame him for our problems continuing, if we don't see them as a challenge or an obstacle in disguise. Difference between a challenge and an impossibility is our mindset.
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Actually, I do notice one thing about Dorje Shugden practice. When he is about bestow something big and beneficial unto our laps, there would be a period of obstacles and problems. Perhaps, it is purification and perhaps it is to gather the merits for us to be able to enjoy and make the most out of what's been bestowed. On the other hand, the struggles we encounter strengthen our resolve and deepen our insight. Somehow Dorje Shugden ensures the right amount of struggle so we grow, mature and progress. Even the problems or harm we get are a blessing in disguise! How kind and skillful Dorje Shugden can be! He is indeed Manjushri and we should all take refuge in such a sublime being.
As an enlightened Dharma protector, it is pretty obvious that Dorje Shugden will not 'protect' us by spoiling us from the challenges of life. Personally I have experienced many struggles before something really beneficial opens up in my path and to actually get to there, it was quite difficult and somehow there were unnecessary challenges along the path but somehow, mysteriously, i'll always hold on and the problems are resolved, usually by my own will and understanding and i find that my mind matures a lot faster as well especially when addressing problems and my own faults. Solutions come quicker than before. Rather than just pampering us, Dorje Shugden makes sure we grow from our obstacles so that we can be independent instead of having to depend on him forever.
It is nothing but benefit to be under the kind protection of such a being, and those disbelievers do not know how much they have missed out.
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I have been practising the sacred practise of Dorje Shugden and as far as I know, I have received nothing evil, or harm, none of these at all, I have learnt to be kind to people, my mind id more stable and peaceful. Of course I am just an ordinary being, but through practising Dorje Shugden, I have not received any harm from Him but only His loving care. Therefore I will never believe anyone who degrades Him, I only trust what I see and experienced.
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Since practising propitiation of Dorje Shugden, I realised that whatever I may benefit from His assistance, there is a period of purification which may be in form of illness, distress and even mental fatigue. And thereafter the benefits come.
It is my belief that in order for the benefits that is bestowed by DS to be long lasting, we need to have our negativities purified so that there is no ''pay back''. For this very reason, it is logical and obvious that DS is a Buddha, because He grants your wishes without negative repercussions. Should we not be ready to receive such benefits, believe that the time is not right.
In conclusion, I have never experienced any harm from Dorje Shugden practice.
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I only experienced the benefit from the Shugden practice.
Being an enlightened protector i have full faith in him and learning about his lineage which is the emanation of the Lord of Wisdom it can never be wrong.
My family members has benefited from Shugden practice and we learn up about him and the main reason for having protector practice is to help us overcome our obstacle so we would able to learn the dharma and to benefit more people.
I believe Lord Shugden will never ask anything in return but just want us to learn dharma and continue to learn put whatever we learn in dharma into practice and benefit more people and inspire more people to learn dharma.
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I have actually experienced extensive harm from relying on Dorje Shugden!!!
My disrespect for the Guru and Three Jewels has been harmed.
My grasping at the 8 concerns of this one single life and disregard for my precious human life has been harmed.
My mind viewing this unbearable prison of samsara as a pleasure garden has been harmed.
My bloated self-serving self-importance and ignorance of others needs has been harmed.
My ignorance has been harmed.
In these and so many other similar ways, I am constantly harmed by this Dharmapala!
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Dear Psylotripitaka,
I like the way you have identified being harmed by propitiating Dorje Shugden. So profound, imagine all our negativities are harmed, then what will happen?
It would be nice for you to illustrate when these ''harms'' were afflicted on you, what were the consequences.
I can imagine the answers but hearing from you would be best.
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Dondrub, I cannot remember when it began, but it certainly was not in this life. Dorje Shugden and his retinue have layed siege to my fortress of self for a very long time. Within the fortress, even after all this time, we are stubborn Masters of the 8 worldly concerns, and with a strong will live life contradicting the Dharma, but some of our inhabitants have been hard put to it, and our defenses have been growing weaker and weaker so that now the Protectors retinue has infiltrated the fort and have been causing much damage from within. The consequences of this harmful oppression is that I have no choice but to submit more and more often to the Protectors will and use everything as fuel for realization. We still try to keep the Protector out so we can act however we please, but we just don't have strong enough forces anymore. Our Commander recently said at a council that it is very likely the fortress will be completely overtaken very soon and this relentless Protector Dorje Shugden will destroy everything, even the seeds of mistaken awareness we've planted.
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Seeing this question and asking myself... I've got to say, No I have not experienced any form of harm from the Dorje Shugden practice and just like you Wisdom Being, I have experienced the opposite and have reaped countless benefits from doing Dorje Shugden practice and just like you also, I read and hear of the CTA and the like criticizing Dorje Shugden, it's practice, calling Him a demon and etc and then I look at myself and my friends who also practice Dorje Shugden and we all don't seem to experience Dorje Shugden trying to harm us or anything which brings me to think, exactly how credible and true are the words of the CTA.
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Like most practitioners who have written on this thread, I am glad to reply that I too, have not experienced any harm from practicing Dorje Shugden. In some ways, I am counting myself fortunate to be in a place where I have the freedom to select and practice the religion of my choice. Very glad also that my mother did not have to disown me because of our difference in religion.
I truly believe that this practice given to me by my most kind and caring teacher to be the means to help me in this life and all future lifes until the time that I do not need to be reborn again.
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I don't know why people think that the worship of Dorje Shugden is like worshipping a demon. It is not! Dorje Shugden has helped me on many occasions and I know it cannot be coincidences because I can feel him sometimes. Even if I am crazy and I just think I can feel him helping me sometimes, no harm has come to me at all, nothing bad or seriously bad has happened to me while I am practicing Shugden, so maybe he is stopping bad things from even happening which is better than a close call with something bad and he comes in to save you at the last second so you see him. NO! He is not bad for me and I know it.
People just believe that he is bad because sometimes they do not even put in a full thought into it and the people just think that if the Dalai Lama is against it then I should be against it too. That is wrong! How about you make your own decision with your own logic and see how it is for you because you can't just lat others decide for your, you must look into it then decide for yourself. He is NOT bad at all! Nothing bad has happened to me! So change that thought!
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I wouldn't say that Dorje Shugden gives harm, as i have been practicing it for several years already. I haven't suffered any bad effects either. How can a spirit win against powerful puja's? If a spirit really was that powerful then why do we still practice buddhism?
The teachings and practices come from highly attained lama's so there isn't any chance that it could be wrong.
What's more thousands of Lama's still practice Dorje Shugden, yet they still get benefits but absolutely no harm.
Those lama's don't just grab their titles out of the air, they have to take rigorous exams and they have to take really strict vow's before they can achieve great titles. If these titles are so hard to gain, then why is it that people still say that dorje Shugden is a spirit?? By saying that you are indirectly saying those high Lama's/Tulku's are wrong. If that is what you say then why don't you make the monasteries change the method of gaining titles??
There is no way someone can cheat to gain titles as the test really shows whether that person's attainment is real or fake. Not just that factor but there are other factors involved as well.
Since Buddhism was started by Buddha Syakhamuni the teachings all come directly from him, there is absolutely no way the teachings can be distorted.
Nothing bad has happened to any of the practitioners, so change your words and blame your own Karma!!