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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: hope rainbow on March 17, 2011, 01:14:13 PM

Title: Religion and Politics
Post by: hope rainbow on March 17, 2011, 01:14:13 PM
We have seen throughout human history everywhere in the world, in every culture, and we see it today still:
politic is using religion and religion is using politic.

Politic is doing it, obviously, with a political motivation.

Religion is doing it, obviously, with a spiritual motivation (otherwise it is not religion-right?): does it make it virtuous in this case because of the motivation?
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Big Uncle on March 17, 2011, 04:20:26 PM
Politics is always dirty because for ordinary folks, our motivation is always self-serving. However, when the  enlightened ones play this game... like peacocks that eat poison, they thrive. No matter how appearances may seem, they bring tremendous benefit to Buddhadharma. The reason? Their motivation is untainted and cannot be altered by mere pleasures or powers of this world.

The Great Fifth Dalai Lama expanded Tibet and unified the country of its smaller warring factions. Thus, he was able to secure Gelug survival which was suffering from reign of the Tsangpa Kings (who were Kagyurpas). The Great Fifth's imperial ambitions brought peace and stability to a nation constantly at war with its contending royal families. The unification of the nation enabled the Gelug tradition to not only survive but flourish as well.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: WisdomBeing on March 17, 2011, 07:51:10 PM
I really don't like politics personally but it is a necessary evil. Even if the religious bodies are not overtly political, every country's political status is influenced by the majority religion of that country. Every political leader who is strongly religious (regardless of religion) will be criticised by the extremists of that religion for not being firm enough and criticised by the moderates for being too extreme. Either way, the religious political leader cannot win. I'm all for separation of religion and state so that the religion is not at risk when its political leader is criticised.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Vajraprotector on March 17, 2011, 08:04:35 PM
Thank you Big Uncle for telling us about the Great Fifth.

"With the motivation of bodhichitta no action can be non-virtuous because bodhichitta eliminates self-cherishing, which is the root of all non-virtuous actions. Even if a Bodhisattva has to kill, this action is not non-virtuous because it is performed solely for the benefit of all living beings. Although others may condemn them, Bodhisattvas incur no negative karma when they perform such actions because their bohichitta ensures all their actions are pure."

From: Joyful Path of Good Fortune: The Complete Buddhist Path to Enlightenment By Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, pg 456

I sincerely believe in this. If not, why would many high lamas continue to take rebirth to help destitute beings, while they could choose to dwell in superior realms and sip nectars?  ;D
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: triesa on March 18, 2011, 05:05:52 PM
Religion and politics if combined and mixed well, could produce a super powerful doze........either to benefit people or to cause much harm and damage to people as well.

In today's world, we can witness plenty of examples of political leaders using religion to control their own people,  for better or for worse. Likewise, we can also see many religious leaders will exert their political influence for a cause which could be good or bad also.

I guess the question lies in how do we see which one is with a virtuous motivation??? Sometimes even a virtuous motivation may temporary produces a very negative results, and only years and decades later, will the real benefits be seen and felt.

Religion and politic are like inseparable twins, but I do agree with wisdom being in that I would also like to see people practising religion can be totally free from any political agenda. In this way, a religion can be practised purely without the worldy contamination, bringing out the true esscence of spirituality.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: DharmaDefender on March 18, 2011, 05:20:06 PM
I really don't like politics personally but it is a necessary evil. Even if the religious bodies are not overtly political, every country's political status is influenced by the majority religion of that country. Every political leader who is strongly religious (regardless of religion) will be criticised by the extremists of that religion for not being firm enough and criticised by the moderates for being too extreme. Either way, the religious political leader cannot win. I'm all for separation of religion and state so that the religion is not at risk when its political leader is criticised.

Does that mean you're not in favour of the Holy See? ;)

I can't decide whether I am for the separation or not. You see, if a person's truly spiritual, then their position of power can be used to do a great deal of good. Isn't it spiritual to want the best for the people you're supposed to serve? So in that sense, religion is great for politics.

I think the problem arises when a person uses religion as the reason for their politics. I think when a person uses anything other than 'selflessness' as a reason for their actions, problems will automatically arise. Because from selfishness arises all sufferings.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Big Uncle on March 18, 2011, 06:56:00 PM
Actually, religion is one of the most powerful tool by megalomaniacs of the past to unify people. Unfortunately, this has almost aways been misused for selfish reasons. Hence, it has almost always resulted in bloody wars, crusades, jihads and the like.

Theocratic rule has been an old tool for mankind to unify others but since the dawn of modern democracy and socialism, such a often-misused method has fallen out of style in favor of nationalism, revolution and racial supremacy. So, it is also the dawn of world wars. Hence, you will find nowhere else theocracy still in living practice as much as in Tibet. Even when the country is lost, the people still hold such strong allegiance to the Dalai Lama.

Even, he has been trying to instill modern democratic practices but his bigger view of things takes precedence. He is foregoing democracy to suppress Dorje Shugden so it will go big. So more people will enter the Dharma because of Dorje Shugden. So, he is using all his political might to push for this as his time in this life is coming to a close soon...
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: DSFriend on March 19, 2011, 03:14:15 AM
Religion is doing it, obviously, with a spiritual motivation (otherwise it is not religion-right?): does it make it virtuous in this case because of the motivation?

Thought provoking question! Don't you wish that you have the third eye? :)

We've seen through ages that where there is politics, there is power play, control and often times sanctioned killing to suppress enemies and making sure "delinquents" fall in line, unite the country, preserve the lineage. It doesn't take much to do a quick search online to see the feudal system of old Tibet, what goes on during the reign of the Great 5th. I had the same question...Does it make it virtuous in this case because of the motivation?

It is not easy to comprehend the actions and see that it is in line with Buddha's teachings but if these beings keeps returning then there must be something more to what the eye can see. Which in this case, if it is said that these beings manifests to benefit all sentient beings, their actions...be it peaceful, wrathful, including what appears to be  "killing" and "cutting off family lines" is a form of liberation.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: hope rainbow on March 24, 2011, 12:13:47 AM
Religion is doing it, obviously, with a spiritual motivation (otherwise it is not religion-right?): does it make it virtuous in this case because of the motivation?

Thought provoking question! Don't you wish that you have the third eye? :)

We've seen through ages that where there is politics, there is power play, control and often times sanctioned killing to suppress enemies and making sure "delinquents" fall in line, unite the country, preserve the lineage. It doesn't take much to do a quick search online to see the feudal system of old Tibet, what goes on during the reign of the Great 5th. I had the same question...Does it make it virtuous in this case because of the motivation?

It is not easy to comprehend the actions and see that it is in line with Buddha's teachings b

if these beings keeps returning then there must be something more to what the eye can see. Which in this case, if it is said that these beings manifests to benefit all sentient beings, their actions...be it peaceful, wrathful, including what appears to be  "killing" and "cutting off family lines" is a form of liberation.

What do you think?

I understand it to be a matter of motivation: bodhisattva or sellfish.
However I am not qualified to even make sure of how badly polluted my motivation is.
So how can I be sure of someone else's motivation? I personally rely on 2 things: intelligence and faith.

intelligence
I rely on analysis, historical and factual. The effects of the actions of The Great 5th can be seen with the time distance, and even the actions of the 6th Dalai Lama can be understood with the time distance.
So can the actions of many other enlightened beings of which we can find enough information.

faith
Faith in my Spiritual Guide, and in the lineage of my Spiritual Guide.
(and I rather have faith in my Spiritual Guide than in a worldly politician)
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: beggar on March 24, 2011, 07:26:30 PM
I think a good guideline is to see the effect of someone's actions on other beings - does it cause more harm, confusion doubt, ill feelings, negativity, anger or does it being more peace, benefit, happiness, clarity, calm?

That is a good measuring stick for each of us individually too to gauge our own actions and whether we are getting a good result from what we do or not. If we don't, or if more people are showing signs of being hurt / disturbed, then we need to check what our intentions are again and readjust them.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: thaimonk on March 25, 2011, 11:13:03 AM
some people may find it tiring to always check their motivations before doing anything. After a while, it does become habitual. But I find it even more tiring to juggle the incredible amount of negative karma manifesting in my life always as a result of my actions prior. So I figure better endure the difficulties in the beginning and enjoy the fruits later.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Helena on March 26, 2011, 05:07:09 PM
I totally agree about enduring the hardship now in order to enjoy the rewards later.

We cannot stop checking and we cannot take anything for granted.

Our samsaric psychosis is so thickly ladened with so much garbage, it is like a toxic wasteland in dire need of major purification.

I like what you suggest Beggar - we must look at the results of what we have said, done and thought about. The results speak for themselves. Our sneaky evil intent and ego can disguise themselves as many wonderful noble things. It can even hide so deep within our mind that we forget about them completely.

As long as we are not Enlightened yet, it pays to be extra careful and check constantly. After all, this new habit of checking will eventually become natural and effortless too in due course.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: LosangKhyentse on March 26, 2011, 07:00:28 PM
Checking one's motivation is THE CRUST OF SPIRITUAL PRACTICE. Amending wrong motivations on the spot until positive motivations naturally arise effortlessy is the result of the practice.

TK
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Mana on March 27, 2011, 06:49:33 AM
China will be the head of the New World Order. China will control the world economy, trends and directions. They are too big, too resoureful and to powerful to ignore. The West will do well by showing deference to China. If the Dalai Lama was asking for a last shot to help his ppl in Tibet before he dies, he should appeal to China directly and visit their leadership directly in Beijing. Make friends with them, then from this friendship, visit Tibet and ask Tibetans to cooperate with China as his last wish.Then after his death there will be less bloodshed. Dalai Lama making friends with Western countries is a waste of time and has gotten him nowhere after 50 years. What can the West do? Nothing. China must be respected. The West is facinated with Dalai Lama, but not to the point of forgetting their individual National economic welfare. Dalai Lama should make friends with Beijing as his last hope shot.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Mana on March 27, 2011, 07:08:01 AM
The majority will support the Dalai Lama and the ones who do not will be silenced or ostracized. The tactic of Tibetan govt is to silence and ostracize the detractors.They have never been democratic but authocratic even till now. Either way the Tibetans will remain silent and not speak against the Dalai Lama because he is their only hope and the face of the Tibetan struggle. The Dalai Lama's govt effectively made sure no one else can ever take the place of the Dalai Lama as sovereign ruler of Tibet for hundreds of years. To think otherwise would have been treason. So this new devolving of power from Dalai Lama to 'elected' prime minister will be interesting to say the least.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: pgdharma on March 27, 2011, 02:50:45 PM
Religion is doing it, obviously, with a spiritual motivation (otherwise it is not religion-right?): does it make it virtuous in this case because of the motivation?

Thought provoking question! Don't you wish that you have the third eye? :)

We've seen through ages that where there is politics, there is power play, control and often times sanctioned killing to suppress enemies and making sure "delinquents" fall in line, unite the country, preserve the lineage. It doesn't take much to do a quick search online to see the feudal system of old Tibet, what goes on during the reign of the Great 5th. I had the same question...Does it make it virtuous in this case because of the motivation?

It is not easy to comprehend the actions and see that it is in line with Buddha's teachings b

if these beings keeps returning then there must be something more to what the eye can see. Which in this case, if it is said that these beings manifests to benefit all sentient beings, their actions...be it peaceful, wrathful, including what appears to be  "killing" and "cutting off family lines" is a form of liberation.

What do you think?

I understand it to be a matter of motivation: bodhisattva or sellfish.
However I am not qualified to even make sure of how badly polluted my motivation is.
So how can I be sure of someone else's motivation? I personally rely on 2 things: intelligence and faith.

intelligence
I rely on analysis, historical and factual. The effects of the actions of The Great 5th can be seen with the time distance, and even the actions of the 6th Dalai Lama can be understood with the time distance.
So can the actions of many other enlightened beings of which we can find enough information.

faith
Faith in my Spiritual Guide, and in the lineage of my Spiritual Guide.
(and I rather have faith in my Spiritual Guide than in a worldly politician)
Well said! I too would rather have faith in my Spiritual Guide than in a wordly politician!
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: WisdomBeing on March 27, 2011, 05:36:58 PM
The majority will support the Dalai Lama and the ones who do not will be silenced or ostracized. The tactic of Tibetan govt is to silence and ostracize the detractors.They have never been democratic but authocratic even till now. Either way the Tibetans will remain silent and not speak against the Dalai Lama because he is their only hope and the face of the Tibetan struggle. The Dalai Lama's govt effectively made sure no one else can ever take the place of the Dalai Lama as sovereign ruler of Tibet for hundreds of years. To think otherwise would have been treason. So this new devolving of power from Dalai Lama to 'elected' prime minister will be interesting to say the least.

This silencing the opposition has been happening since the 5th Dalai Lama's time, when Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was silenced and his whole household was annihilated in order to ensure that the lineage was cut. It is amazing that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was seen as such a threat that even his incarnations would not be recognised. It's like he was erased from history.

Although an interesting thought is that if Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen wasn't silenced, perhaps Dorje Shugden would not have manifested?

Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: hope rainbow on April 08, 2011, 08:58:21 AM
China will be the head of the New World Order.
China will control the world economy, trends and directions.
They are too big, too resoureful and to powerful to ignore.
The West will do well by showing deference to China.
If the Dalai Lama was asking for a last shot to help his ppl in Tibet before he dies, he should appeal to China directly and visit their leadership directly in Beijing.
Make friends with them, then from this friendship, visit Tibet and ask Tibetans to cooperate with China as his last wish.
Then after his death there will be less bloodshed.
Dalai Lama making friends with Western countries is a waste of time and has gotten him nowhere after 50 years.
What can the West do? Nothing.
China must be respected.
The West is facinated with Dalai Lama, but not to the point of forgetting their individual National economic welfare.
Dalai Lama should make friends with Beijing as his last hope shot.

The Dalai Lama has one duty towards tibetans, it is to bring them Dharma, it is to give them opportunities to generate merits, and this duty, The Dalai Lama has it towards not only the tibetans, but all humans, and all beings. Whatever HH is doing, is done with a much broader vision than HH's "political" role as the head of state. The Dalai Lama has a bodhichitta motivation.
With those that venerate HH, HH benefits them, with those that despise HH, HH finds ways to benefits them, and with those that have no special feeling for HH, HH still benefits them by appearing on their TV set and newspaper talking about an attractive alternative to the average lifestyle -that is: happiness.
At the end of the day, to be tibetan, or chinese, or indian, or swedish or african, whatever it is does not matter, what matters is: have we improved in this life? Or have we worsened? uuuhhhh....
The Dalai Lama has tried to befriend the chinese before, but it was not successful, so in front of a latent resistance and opposition HH had to find a way to still make Dharma grow in China (and thus in Tibet -di facto), and what did HH do? HH banned Dorje Shugden's practice. Some, in HH's office, unfortunately became rather zealous about it -which created problems, but this should not distract us from the effects of the ban: the spread of Dorje Shugden's practice in China (and in the world).
So when it comes to mixing politics and religion, The Dalai Lama is actually showing us that MOTIVATION is the key. Maybe not everyone can see it, and that is unfortunate, but as far as I am concerned, I see a demonstration of great skills.
Perhaps, HH's next move, should indeed to move into China and talk to Beijing again, this might be rather interesting! But if this is going to compromise the growth of Dorje Shugden's practice, I doubt that HH would do it, HH may have to find another way to avoid future conflicts.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: hope rainbow on April 12, 2011, 03:12:11 PM
Although an interesting thought is that if Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen wasn't silenced, perhaps Dorje Shugden would not have manifested?

Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen might have been silenced, but Dharma became louder, clearer and more powerful!
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Helena on April 12, 2011, 03:37:01 PM

This silencing the opposition has been happening since the 5th Dalai Lama's time, when Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was silenced and his whole household was annihilated in order to ensure that the lineage was cut. It is amazing that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was seen as such a threat that even his incarnations would not be recognised. It's like he was erased from history.

Although an interesting thought is that if Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen wasn't silenced, perhaps Dorje Shugden would not have manifested?

You are right, WB!

It is like TDG never existed. I think if they could have it their way, it would have been just as so.

TDG was seen as such a threat because TDG was just more famous and more in demand. Royalties from different countries came to pay TDG respect and would request teachings from HIM. NOT the 5th Dalai Lama.

During that time, Tibet was very chaotic (not that it is any less chaotic now, but different chaos). There was no unity. Every part of Tibet followed their own 'rulers' so to speak. The Government just wanted to unify Tibet under one leader and one central government. So, they had to find ways to get it done. In their minds, their motivation is pure because it was all for a greater good for Tibet.

See how different perceptions can govern different people to do very different things, even very harsh things. Or shall I say, what appears to be very harsh and brutal.

Checking one's motivation is THE CRUST OF SPIRITUAL PRACTICE. Amending wrong motivations on the spot until positive motivations naturally arise effortlessy is the result of the practice.

TK

Here, I have to agree - MOTIVATION SETS THE DEED AND SEALS IT.

I guess, all Enlightened Beings would know what each of them need to do. Because I believe what concerns them would never be about fame, wealth, glory or power. What concerns them most of all, as always, would be what is most beneficial over the long run.

As we can witness, how events have come about. It is not blind, careless and thoughtless.

Everything is really cause and effect.

Enlightened Beings are just way better at creating the right causes for certain effects to take place - even if they may only materialize much later in the future.

Their Enlightened deeds never end. It as unique as beginingless time. We can't really say when it all started and when it will end. It is on-going.

Enlightened Beings truly understand the laws of karma. Hence, they are not bound by karma, but can even control their karma for higher purposes and goals.


Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: diamond girl on April 13, 2011, 09:58:15 PM

faith
Faith in my Spiritual Guide, and in the lineage of my Spiritual Guide.
(and I rather have faith in my Spiritual Guide than in a worldly politician)

[/quote]

Ideally politics and religion are never to mix but like is said it is not possible. And it all boils down to integrity and motivation. Both religion and politics are powerful tools as it controls the minds and souls. Humans are influenced tremendously by both, and religion and politics cannot prevail without humans.

But I cannot agree more that I would rather have faith in my Spiritual Guide than any worldly politician.   :o
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: thaimonk on April 14, 2011, 04:30:24 PM
Nicely said everyone. Thanks.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: WoselTenzin on April 15, 2011, 01:33:28 PM
some people may find it tiring to always check their motivations before doing anything. After a while, it does become habitual. But I find it even more tiring to juggle the incredible amount of negative karma manifesting in my life always as a result of my actions prior. So I figure better endure the difficulties in the beginning and enjoy the fruits later.

I totally agree with Thaimonk.   Things would be much easier for us if we put in the effort to set a correct motivation and do the right thing from the start.  And yes, better to endure difficulties in the beginning and enjoy the fruits later than the other way round.  Correcting our mistake once it has been done would take a lot more effort and is a tremendous waste of time.  Also, some damage made could be irreparable and we can only live in regret wishing that we have done the right thing or have the right motivation from the beginning.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Big Uncle on April 16, 2011, 06:54:48 PM
some people may find it tiring to always check their motivations before doing anything. After a while, it does become habitual. But I find it even more tiring to juggle the incredible amount of negative karma manifesting in my life always as a result of my actions prior. So I figure better endure the difficulties in the beginning and enjoy the fruits later.

I totally agree with Thaimonk.   Things would be much easier for us if we put in the effort to set a correct motivation and do the right thing from the start.  And yes, better to endure difficulties in the beginning and enjoy the fruits later than the other way round.  Correcting our mistake once it has been done would take a lot more effort and is a tremendous waste of time.  Also, some damage made could be irreparable and we can only live in regret wishing that we have done the right thing or have the right motivation from the beginning.

For us, spiritual infants, we need to constantly check and readjust our motivation through study, sadhana, vows and samaya to get things right in the end. It is not easy to get it right and it is a constant challenge. I guess, the key to success is never giving up. The stakes are high but the reward is so much more. All of us including all the Buddhas, Lamas, yogis and scholars wish this was a bed of roses but it is not and so they praise those who managed to conquered themselves. However, all of them say that it is mountain to be scaled one step at a time ~ Lamrim! Thank you Thaimonk, what you said epitomizes Lamrim.... 
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: beggar on April 18, 2011, 01:57:04 PM
The Dalai Lama has tried to befriend the chinese before, but it was not successful, so in front of a latent resistance and opposition HH had to find a way to still make Dharma grow in China (and thus in Tibet -di facto), and what did HH do? HH banned Dorje Shugden's practice. Some, in HH's office, unfortunately became rather zealous about it -which created problems, but this should not distract us from the effects of the ban: the spread of Dorje Shugden's practice in China (and in the world).
So when it comes to mixing politics and religion, The Dalai Lama is actually showing us that MOTIVATION is the key. Maybe not everyone can see it, and that is unfortunate, but as far as I am concerned, I see a demonstration of great skills.
Perhaps, HH's next move, should indeed to move into China and talk to Beijing again, this might be rather interesting! But if this is going to compromise the growth of Dorje Shugden's practice, I doubt that HH would do it, HH may have to find another way to avoid future conflicts.


What a strong point, thank you! Another new way to look at it - I had not considered these points before.

Yes, I think in some way, some people are "sacrificed" by the ban and I am sure the dalai lama understands this. But if he is as compassionate as we believe (and he is), I am sure he will be sure that these people who are "sacrificed" are still somehow blessed and connected back to dharma in the future. At the same time, so many more people are receiving the benefit of Dharma also. I know this maybe does not excuse or make better what people have suffered...... but in the longer terms and the broader scheme of things, the suffering experienced now can be dedicated to a huger benefit, and therefore the suffering becomes merit??

I especially like your point that it is not just about Tibetans in this case. It is about all beings and people from everywhere and the dalai lama considers this in his actions. It is a very true point - we may be Tibetan in this lifetime, but completely something from the other side of the world in our next life; and vice versa. We do have our individual karmas involved also, so it is maybe more helpful to consider how we fit into a larger scheme - can we contribute to making it better or get dragged down?
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: DSFriend on April 18, 2011, 07:04:08 PM
Checking one's motivation is THE CRUST OF SPIRITUAL PRACTICE. Amending wrong motivations on the spot until positive motivations naturally arise effortlessy is the result of the practice.

TK

I suppose checking our motivation and amending it will naturally change the way we perceive our world and thus, react to situations differently also. I find the statement you said here to be hopeful as it will become more effortless in time.  Thanks TK.

The ban sure have stirred much negative emotion, thoughts and action from many practitioners and non practitioners of Dorje Shugden.

There could be a thousand wrongs done to us but at the end of the day, it is our own karma, resultant of our motivation and action which we will have to face.

Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Gabby Potter on March 31, 2015, 03:22:13 PM
In my opinion, religion and politics cannot and will not merge into one. If you want to be religious, please stay religious all the way; If you prefer politics, please do your politics and leave the religion alone. The CTA doesn't seem to quite understand this point, they are turning religion into some sectarian kind of thing, even His Holiness's own people cannot practise Buddhism well, how does CTA expect to be respected? As I am saying this, of course I am not blaming His Holiness, I mean come on man, who am I to judge His Holiness? I dare not man. It's the CTAs that are creating a mess and using His Holiness's name to get things.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Matibhadra on April 01, 2015, 05:21:25 AM
Quote
I mean come on man, who am I to judge His Holiness? I dare not man.

There is no need to judge anyone, not even the evil dalie; it's enough that one does not abet and deify criminals, which you miserably fail to do.

Behind your hypocritical pretense of a non-judgmental attitude towards the evil dalie, lies your need to protect and justify your own criminal instincts.

Quote
It's the CTAs that are creating a mess and using His Holiness's name to get things.

Every criminal abettor needs a scapegoat. While deep in your heart you support the evil dalie's criminal activity, you feel unable to bear the burden of your resultant guilt, and therefore you try to transfer it to a scapegoat such as the CTA.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Dondrup Shugden on April 01, 2015, 08:21:38 AM
Religion and Politics can never be mixed.  The very premise that these two ideologies stand on are so very different.

Politics is to control and judge.  Religion is to accept and liberate.

Politics operates on the 8 worldly concerns and Religion is to rid us of the 8 worldly concerns.

When the Dalai Lama gave up being the secular head of the TGIE, I had great hopes that He will really practise care and compassion and lift the Ban on Dorje Shugden.  Alas that did not happen.

What then is the CTA doing?  Being a tool for the Dalai Lama in discriminating and dividing the Tibetans in exile, so that the Dalai Lama can teach the world on love, care and compassion. These are only miserable thoughts that keep coming to my mind.  It is a dilemma we Shugdenpas face night and day.

The solution can only come from His Holiness, may He have the compassion to free us all. 
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Matibhadra on April 01, 2015, 01:09:09 PM
Quote
What then is the CTA doing?  Being a tool for the Dalai Lama in discriminating and dividing the Tibetans in exile, so that the Dalai Lama can teach the world on love, care and compassion.

This would be like spreading a lethal virus in order better to sell the antidote. Only a demented criminal could conceive of such a perverse schema. Therefore, it s very likely that indeed such is the evil dalie's plan.

Quote
It is a dilemma we Shugdenpas face night and day.

The evil dalie's sinister schema you have just described poses no dilemma to Shugdenpas, but only to people who place their refuge in the monstrous theocratic dictator rather than in the Three Jewels.

Quote
The solution can only come from His Holiness, may He have the compassion to free us all.

A Buddhist would say that the solution can only come from the Three Jewels, never from a deluded mafioso such as the evil dalie.

Your statement shows that you are no Buddhist, let alone a Shugdenpa; rather, you are just the enslaved acolyte of a brutal criminal.
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: DharmaSpace on April 04, 2015, 05:39:47 PM
No matter what we call the Dalai Lama it is not going to help in resolving this issue.

I hope the three jewels can offer a solution, but I cannot fathom or imagine how it can happen via the three jewels at this time.

I am just saying that the Dalai Lama was the one who started the ban and the controversy. So it will close the loop nicely that the Dalai Lama were to say the ban is lifted so CTA, the Tibetans and other anti Dorje Shugden people will hear it clearly and directly from the Dalai Lama. And that will be the end of it.



   
Title: Re: Religion and Politics
Post by: Matibhadra on April 05, 2015, 02:43:19 AM
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No matter what we call the Dalai Lama it is not going to help in resolving this issue.

Of course it will. As long as you call a criminal “His Holiness” you have not resolved the issue of your own accomplicity with such criminal.

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I hope the three jewels can offer a solution, but I cannot fathom or imagine how it can happen via the three jewels at this time.

This is because you lack refuge in the Three Jewels. There is no solution at any time which does not happen via the Three Jewels.

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I am just saying that the Dalai Lama was the one who started the ban and the controversy. So it will close the loop nicely that the Dalai Lama were to say the ban is lifted so CTA, the Tibetans and other anti Dorje Shugden people will hear it clearly and directly from the Dalai Lama. And that will be the end of it.

Since you see the solution in the evil dalie, but not in the Three Jewels, it follows that you are a dalaite, not a Buddhist. Your refuge is the evil dalie, not the Three Jewels.

The strength of the evil dalie lies in the weakness of his victims: those like you who lack refuge in the Three Jewels.