dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: beggar on January 29, 2011, 12:52:51 PM
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Just saw this on a news report:
NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Indian police raided the monastery of a "living Buddha" touted as a possible successor to the Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama in a probe over possible illegal funds, officials said on Friday.
The action, nearly a day of searches ending on Friday, was the latest crackdown on corruption in high places.
Police said they came across a "big quantity of cash" in the raid on the monastery of the Karmapa Lama, who a decade ago fled Tibet for Dharamsala.
"I cannot disclose that (the exact amount of money found) but there was Indian and as well as foreign currency," senior police official Daljeet Singh Thakur told Reuters Television.
A central government source said the investigation was focusing on whether money laundering was involved.
An aide to the Karmapa Lama was arrested by police. Monks at the monastery could not be reached for comment.
The Karmapa Lama lives in exile along with the Dalai Lama in Dharamala, the centre of the self-proclaimed Tibetan government-in-exile.
India has been hit by a series of corruption scandals in recent months and the main opposition Bharatiya Janata Party has blocked parliament as it accused Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's government of shielding the guilty.
Leading the list of cases is a charge that state coffers were poorer by $39 billion due to corruption in the grant of telecoms licences. Police are also probing if organisers of the Commonweath Games in October took bribes to award contracts.
The Supreme Court has accused the government of doing too little to follow up cases of corruption and of unaccounted for "black money" held by Indian citizens in overseas tax havens.
Thursday's police action came days after authorities searched homes of Bollywood actors for possible tax evasion. Earlier, federal police searched homes and offices of a former telecoms minister and organisers of the Commonweath Games.
"It (the searches) is a reaction. It is not because of any honest intentions of the government. It is being forced to act," political commentator Amulya Ganguly said.
(Reporting by C.J. Kuncheria; Editing by Alistair Scrutton and Ron Popeski)
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/01/28/uk-india-corruption-lama-idUKTRE70R2X220110128
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I have heard from a very reliable source form inside the monasteries that the Karmapa is now being accused of being a Chinese spy because they had found millions of Chinese currency in cash in his residence. It is now all over the Indian news and he is being investigated.
Well, this is an interesting twist and Karmapa being investigated will take attention away from Dorje Shugden. All along, the Tibetan Government have accused Dorje Shugden practitioners as being Chinese spies, or being aligned with the Chinese and getting millions of dollars from them.
They have nothing to say now and they sure are gonna have to start backing up their claims because they've been backing up the karmapa all along, all this time. Now this is to say their own "camp" is also a Chinese spy???
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The search raids being carried out, in my opinion, is totally a reaction from the Indian Government to stop being accused of doing nothing. As said by the political commentator Amulya Ganguly, "It (the searches) is a reaction. It is not because of any honest intentions of the government. It is being forced to act."
The saddest part of all of these, is that they have to go search the monastery of Karmapa Lama. Obviously there is cash in a monastery for whatever the money is intended to be used for. It is like as if the Indian government want to instigate something here, to divert attention and show everyone that they are doing their job.
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Good point there, Triesa that the Indian government have been almost forced into a corner, put under pressure for not doing anything.
However, what's more tragic and sad is this: Where do you think whole allegation and idea of Tibetan Buddhists being Chinese spies came from in the first place? That's right - the tibetan government themselves. the TGIE were the first ones to start shouting this accusation all over the place, especially towards Dorje Shugden practitioners. The fact that the Indian government would pick up on this now - well the idea didn't come out of nowhere. It was planted by the TGIE themselves. Looks like they sure shot themselves in the foot.
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Have heard this too, by the way, from friends who have contacts within Dharamsala, and knew of this inside information:
How the raid came about in the first place:
Karmapa's aide had gone to the bank and for whatever unknown reason had withdrawn a huge amount of cash. On his way back, he was stopped by authorities and when they found out he was the Karmapa's aide, it rang alarm bells that he had that much money on him.
This led to the actual raid on Karmapa's personal residence where they found millions of Chinese currency renminbi and even USD600,000, which was all in cash.
Anyway, this whole story is not about the Karmapa - what he does is not any of our business to judge or comment on. However, the situation sure is a very embarrasing one for the TGIE who have been promoting him very strongly - the tables turn on them now, by the very same wrong accusation (of being a Chinese spy) that they have been pointing towards so many other innocent practitioners.
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video:
http://video.in.msn.com/watch/video/karmapa-lama-a-chinese-spy/f4g137yk (http://video.in.msn.com/watch/video/karmapa-lama-a-chinese-spy/f4g137yk)
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http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-8033425/aHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWxlZ3JhcGhpbmRpYS5jb20vMTExMDEyOS9qc3AvZnJvbnRwYWdlL3N0b3J5XzEzNTA2NzY1LmpzcA== (http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-8033425/aHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWxlZ3JhcGhpbmRpYS5jb20vMTExMDEyOS9qc3AvZnJvbnRwYWdlL3N0b3J5XzEzNTA2NzY1LmpzcA==)
The Telegraph
Calcutta India
Delhi casts spy doubt after ‘haul of crores’
Jan. 28: New Delhi today said Ugyen Trinley Dorje was no Karmapa and could be questioned by security agencies following the seizure of at least Rs 6 crore in Indian and foreign currencies from his Dharamsala home.
The unaccounted cash, which includes at least 11 lakh Chinese yuans (worth Rs 77 lakh), has buttressed suspicion that Dorje is a Chinese spy and had planned to build a network of China-friendly Tibetan institutions across the Himalayan region.
A highly placed government official said that if any criminal offence was established, Dorje would be tried in a court of law like any other person.
Dorje, 25, had carried out his headline-making “escape” from Tibet to India in January 2000, aged 14. His followers claim he is the 17th Karmapa — head of the Karma Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism — and the successor to the Dalai Lama.
But New Delhi has severely curbed his movements in recent years on suspicion that Beijing had stage-managed his “escape”.
“He is not a Karmapa. He is Ugyen Trinley Dorje,” the government official said. “It is a matter of serious concern that unaccounted money has been sourced to him. The law will take its course.”
Sources said the remarks were a signal to Dorje, his followers and Tibetans at large that India considered the young man a Chinese agent, and that there was no chance of his ever succeeding the Dalai Lama — who heads a different sect, anyway.
Yesterday, Himachal Pradesh police had raided Dorje’s home in a Dharamsala monastery, seized six suitcases of cash and arrested his close aide Shakti Lama. Sources said Dorje himself was unlikely to be detained immediately. Today, the Enforcement Directorate joined the probe.
Counting is still on. “The police have so far recovered Indian and foreign currencies worth Rs 6 crore in all. The foreign currency is from 25 countries, including China, Japan, America, Britain, Australia, Germany, Denmark, Singapore, Nepal, Canada and Thailand,” Himachal police chief D.S. Manhas said.
He added that Rs 30 lakh in Indian currency had been counted so far along with 11 lakh Chinese yuans and six lakh US dollars (worth Rs 2.7 crore). An intelligence source said the money trail so far seemed to lead to Hong Kong, suggesting a Chinese hand.
Some reports said the money was meant to buy a five-acre plot in Himachal’s Kangra district. Two earlier attempts by Dorje to buy land in Kangra, in 2007 and 2008, were scuttled after coming under the Enforcement Directorate’s scanner.
Dorje is alleged to have bought a large tract in Kangra’s Kotla village, near Dharamsala, in the name of Maya Devi, a small farmer from Kinnaur district. The police are investigating the source of the money and a case is pending in the Kangra deputy commissioner’s court. It is listed for hearing on March 23.
Himachal police sources said they knew of about 400 benami land deals by Tibetan refugees, and that cases had been registered in 263 instances.
Some sources said China may have wanted Dorje to do in the Indian Himalayas what Beijing had done in Nepal.
All along the India-Nepal border, the Chinese have opened 17 “China study centres” that ostensibly teach Chinese culture and language. But their main aim is suspected to be to establish a long-term Chinese influence in Nepal that could hurt Indian interests.
The sources said Beijing had sent Dorje to India to keep an eye on the Dalai Lama’s activities and project himself as his successor.
Beijing also wanted Dorje to take control of the Rumtek monastery in Sikkim, the principal seat of the Kagyu sect, but that has not happened so far because of the emergence of a rival claimant to Karmapa status.
The “he is no Karmapa” remark suggests Dorje has lost this prospect too. India wants the rival, Thinley Thai Dorji, who is about the same age as Dorje, to take charge of the Sikkim monastery, which has more than 700 overseas branches and is influential both in the Indian Himalayan region and Tibet.
Himachal police chief Manhas said the money seized from Dorje’s home may have been routed through hawala from the Majnu Ka Tila area of Delhi, inhabited largely by Tibetan refugees.
“The money was reportedly drawn from the Majnoo Ka Tila branch of a private sector bank. We have arrested two people and are interrogating them,” he said.
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DL's comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hELhZGGjqdE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hELhZGGjqdE)
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Dalai Lama says in a short and sweet way that Karmapa should set up a trust fund. Then easier.
Mana
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http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govt-seeks-report-from-himachal-govt-on-karmapa/141840-3.html
or watch the news video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z05Xjfa3Q4I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z05Xjfa3Q4I)
Another incredible news report video on the event with so many accusations.
It's completely ironic. The Tibetan govt in exile always accuses anyone they don't like of being a Chinese supporter or spy. What is there really to spy on?? As if whatever the Tibetan Govt can do that would usurp Tibet away from China. In the wildest dreams that couldn't and wouldn't happen. By accusing people within their own communities of spy work, they effectively get the thousands of uneducated, backwards, isolated Tibetan farmers, sweater sellers, tea sellers, statue sellers to alienate the accused group such as Shugdenpas. The Tibetan Govt is very far from even being near democratic. They are very similar to Myanmar's regime. AT LEAST MYANMAR HAS A COUNTRY. Tibetans did their job so badly, they LOST their country and cannot gain it back ever.
Now their own accusations have turned against them in the form of Karmapa being accused of being a Chinese spy receiving money from the Chinese govt. Tibetan Govt should learn a lesson from this-TO STOP USING THE SPY CARD. To stop using the words 'spy' or 'Chinese backed' in all their statements. If they can attack the Karmapa, who is next? After all you would think India would be more 'considerate' to Karmapa since he is close to Dalai Lama. India respects Dalai Lama, so they can 'attack' someone close to him, then what happens after Dalai Lama passes. The Tibetans and their shenanigans are in big trouble. Time for all Tibetans to buy that US Visa in Delhi and get out of India full speed. A note of advice for the Tibetan farmers immigrating, in the US, keep quiet about the Shugden ban, because there's real RELIGIOUS FREEDOM THERE and your silly protests about Shugden would be ignored by Paris Hilton's latest designer bag for sale. Even Hilton's latest bags on sale would have more media coverage and importance than your archaic and repressive bans to save the world from an 'evil' practice.
Maybe Tibetan Govt can learn a lesson or two from the US on religious freedom instead of always just panhandling money from it's americans to fund it's bans and dead end schemes in India.
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This link has it all as in the videos and artilces from the Indian media. And yes, admin I'm happy you can use my write up for this as an intro.
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=7014
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I find it interesting the see that the Indian Government, at a country level (not regional), does not hesitate to publicly investigate and accuse the Karmapa who is a figure very close to The Dalai Lama.
What will become of the tibetan cause in the future (after The Dalai Lama has passed away-may that be the latest possible) if it is to be fought from a tibetan platform in India. A platform tainted by accusations of spying for China...
A platform with no leader of the same weight as The Dalai Lama.
It is possible that many things will shift.
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The Karmapa has been under suspicion by the Indian government even before this current issue. I remember reading about it in the local newspaper last month (this is the online version here http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/01/karmapa-exile-india-political-game) and the article is called "The Karmapa is caught in a political game".
Below is an excerpt from that article:
Headlines like "The new Dalai Lama" and "The world's next top Lama" sparked intense speculation.
"Clearly a serious and exceptionally intelligent 15-year-old. Few can doubt his credentials as a future Tibetan leader," wrote the Observer in 2001. "He is the only … reincarnation, currently recognised by both the Chinese and the Dalai Lama. He could be the hinge on which relations between Tibetans and China swing in a new direction," claimed Newsweek in 2009.
This speculation put him at the heart of a political game with the Chinese who are determined to wrest control of Tibetan Buddhism after the passing of the Dalai Lama. The situation is further complicated by Indian government suspicions that the Karmapa may have been sent to India to destabilise Sikkim, which borders China, and which China claims as its own. The machinations of the Tibetan exile government to hang onto a charismatic figure capable of uniting the Tibetans after the demise of the aging Dalai Lama, stirs yet more political intrigue into the seething cauldron.
It IS, as Thaimonk says, tremendously ironic that the Karmapa whom the Dalai Lama had such close relations with is being accused of being a Chinese spy, which is the very epithet that the TGIE applies to Shugdenpas. This quote in particular, "The machinations of the Tibetan exile government to hang onto a charismatic figure capable of uniting the Tibetans after the demise of the aging Dalai Lama, stirs yet more political intrigue into the seething cauldron.", implies that the author does not think highly of the TGIE either. Interesting.
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The subject heading caught my attention and initially I thought to myself,..this can't be right,..not to the darling Karmapa who has gotten so much adoration throughout the world, who is pretty much starting to be the face of Tibetan Buddhism.
Much thanks to the articles posted by Beggar, Admin, Thaimonk and the others...
What struck me is that the TGIE has not gained any grounds to get their country back NOR has fostered any trust with the Indian government though they have been on Indian soil for half a century!
Karmapa is someone TGIE recognized, endorsed, promotes and positioned in such a way that many suspects could be the next leader of the Tibetan people. Indian government's suspicions about karmapa being a chinese spy says ALOT about TGIE...that what TGIE sanction and implement is highly questionable. I do believe the Karmapa is an extraordinary being and the many high lamas to recognize him cannot be wrong.
What is extremely embarrassing for TGIE, a government which singles out and accuses Shugdenpas for being chinese spies now is having one of their own being accused and interrogated for this very fear factor! Is this karma or what?!
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Yes, I agree. How can they accuse Shugdenpas for so many years without karma coming back to them? Anyway, this is sad. Can Buddhism totally be free from politics?
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Yes, I agree. How can they accuse Shugdenpas for so many years without karma coming back to them? Anyway, this is sad. Can Buddhism totally be free from politics?
I think it is like this: buddhisme can be free from politics, but for as long as there will remain sentient beings, politics will have to be dealt with and accounted for. For as long as samsara remains, politics will. And just as enlightened beings make use of our delusions so that we engage in a spiritual journey, they also use politics. After all, Buddhas are not forced to take rebirth, they do it to help us -same with politics.
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The subject heading caught my attention and initially I thought to myself,..this can't be right,..not to the darling Karmapa who has gotten so much adoration throughout the world, who is pretty much starting to be the face of Tibetan Buddhism.
Much thanks to the articles posted by Beggar, Admin, Thaimonk and the others...
What struck me is that the TGIE has not gained any grounds to get their country back NOR has fostered any trust with the Indian government though they have been on Indian soil for half a century!
Karmapa is someone TGIE recognized, endorsed, promotes and positioned in such a way that many suspects could be the next leader of the Tibetan people. Indian government's suspicions about karmapa being a chinese spy says ALOT about TGIE...that what TGIE sanction and implement is highly questionable. I do believe the Karmapa is an extraordinary being and the many high lamas to recognize him cannot be wrong.
What is extremely embarrassing for TGIE, a government which singles out and accuses Shugdenpas for being chinese spies now is having one of their own being accused and interrogated for this very fear factor! Is this karma or what?!
The karma of years of accusing Shudenpas and other practitioners as Chinese spies is returning like the wheel of sharp weapon to TGIE. Now if the Indian government takes this up, it will be concerning the national security level. I think TGIE has lost a lot of creditability and sadly to say, the Indain government could not care less what the TGIE supports or not support.
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Karmapa is supposedly close to the Dalai Lama and he is 'backed' by the Dalai Lama. It does not look good for the Dalai Lama that someone he backs has a financial scandal.
You can accuse a lama of many things, and it will be seen in different perspectives by different people. But financial accusations are harsh. It will take time for Karmapa to overcome this. His devotees will not much be affected, but the people of India who are swamped with this media frenzy will be affected. And the Karmapa, his group and Tibetans live in India under Indian jurisdiction now and after the Dalai Lama.
If while the Dalai Lama is alive and the Indian authorities investigate ppl like Karmapa, imagine what happens if the Dalai Lama passes. The Tibetans will not have a secure future. To further creates rifts between Tibetans using the Dorje Shugden issue is a MAJOR WRONG MOVE by the Tibetan Govt in exile. You would think the authorities would not touch ppl close to the Dalai Lama since they respect him so much. So much that they let him have a 'exiled govt' and they keep a closed eye to this. What other country would allow refuges to set up govt within their own judicial boundaries? India is generous.
India is generous because of the Dalai Lama, but after the Dalai Lama will be a different story. Indians in India will be weary of Karmapa after this for years to come. The key words are 'unaccounted monies' and 'Chinese spy' attached to Karmapa's name within the majority of Indian psyche. For Karmapa to 'succeed' Dalai Lama is a far and distant dream.
The Tibetan Govt should think twice before they start accusing Shugden devotees as Chinese backed or spies in the future. Hopefully this Karmapa 'scandal' will have taught them a lesson. After all, who put the whole spy imprint in the minds of the Indians in the first place? Of course the Tibetan Govt in exile. They should learn a lesson that they should not accuse simply to fulfill a political goal. Shugden people are not backed up by the Chinese, but practice Shugden because of their deep devotion to their lama's instructions.
One thing positive about the Karmapa is that his current incarnation and previous has not spoken negatively about Dorje Shugden as far as I know. Can anyone confirm this?
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/dalai-lama-urges-probe-into-1m-cash-stash/story-fn3dxity-1225997625850 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/dalai-lama-urges-probe-into-1m-cash-stash/story-fn3dxity-1225997625850)
Dalai Lama urges probe into $1m cash stash
THE Dalai Lama has called for a thorough probe into the discovery of almost a million dollars in foreign currency at the monastery of one of Tibet's most senior religious leaders.
Police in northern India, where the Tibetan community in exile is based, have quizzed the Karmapa and arrested several aides over the cash which is mostly in US dollars but also in Chinese yuan and two dozen other currencies.
The Karmapa heads one of the four sects of Tibetan Buddhism and could emerge as a future spiritual leader of Tibet on the death of the 75-year-old Dalai Lama, who has said he might not be replaced.
"There should be a thorough investigation. He (the Karmapa) is an important Lama," the Dalai Lama in Bangalore, according to Indian media reports.
"Karmapa has many devotees including from China... some money would have naturally been received by him," added the Nobel prize winner.
"There has been some negligence. Better now have a thorough investigation."
The Indian media, quoting unnamed security sources, have reported concerns that the Karmapa could be a Chinese stooge sent to India from Tibet to set up pro-Chinese monasteries.
The office of the Karmapa has dismissed the rumours as baseless and said the money is the result of years of accumulated donations. It has acknowledged negligence in its book-keeping.
Notes totalling $600,000, 1.2 million yuan ($180,000), 500,000 Hong Kong dollars ($64,000), 5.3 million Indian rupees ($115,000) were discovered at the monastery and other offices, police say.
Last night, about two hundred people held a candlelit vigil in support of the the Karmapa at his Gyuto monastery in Dharamshala, where the Tibetan community in exile is based in India.
The Karmapa fled Tibet in 1999 as a 14-year-old because he said he was concerned that Beijing would force him to turn against the Dalai Lama, who has acted as a father figure for him in Dharamshala.
China regards the Dalai Lama as a dangerous separatist, and has sought to groom monks who would accept Tibet as an integral part of China and drop all claims for an independent state.
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One thing positive about the Karmapa is that his current incarnation and previous has not spoken negatively about Dorje Shugden as far as I know. Can anyone confirm this?
There was a discussion last year on another thread http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg10362#msg10362 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg10362#msg10362) and beggar shared this story about the 16th Karmapa from Dagom Rinpoche:
I have heard for a fact that back in the 70s or 80s (I think... though i'm a little rusty with dates) the Karmapa went to an opening of a Nyingma monastery in Nepal. There, they had a statue of Dorje Drolod which had been modified and shown to be stepping on Dorje Shugden. Karmapa was very angry when he saw this. He said, “Who made this? Where did this lineage come from? Show me the monk who did this.” He left the monastery very unhappy.
More than that, the Karmapa predicted then to the Nyingmas at the monastery, “You will have no choice in the future but to practice this protector; there will come a time when you need him" referring of course to Dorje Shugden.
This incident has been written and recorded down by Dagom Rinpoche himself.
So this is very interesting and shows clearly the Karmapa not being against Dorje Shugden and not encouraging it when people defame the practice. He also gives us a strong example of inter-lineage and inter-faith respect and being very clearly against any hint of sectarianism. This is how we should all be, after all!!
There's another version of this story where the Karmapa insists that they remove the statue of Dorje Drolo stepping on Shugden. These are only details though - I like the main message of this story very much which is that no one should tolerate putting down Dorje Shugden, whether you are from the same lineage or not.
It is stories like this of high lamas like HH the Karmapa and HH Penor Rinpoche, who gave provisions to Shugden monks, that proves that Dorje Shugden practice does not encourage sectarianism.
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This is the official statement from the Karmapa's Office.
http://www.kagyuoffice.org/
January 29, 2011. Dharamsala
We would like to categorically state that the allegations being levelled against the Karmapa and his administration are grossly speculative and without foundation in the truth. Everyone who knows the history of our lineage, our struggle and His Holiness' life is very surprised by the allegations.
We categorically deny having any link whatsoever with any arm of the Chinese Government. The Karmapa has a deep affection for the people of this great country of India where he has been practicing his faith for years. We have had a long and positive working relationship with the democratic Government of India that has always demonstrated great tolerance of cultural expression and diverse beliefs.
We have followers in a large number of countries who have placed their trust and faith in us and, through their individual donations, enabled the sect to undertake substantial programmes of public service that have benefitted many thousands in India and abroad.
Monasteries across the world accept offerings from devotees in various forms-there is nothing surprising, new or irregular in this. . A representative of HH the Dalai Lama's office underlined this yesterday. The cash in question under the current investigation by the police is offerings received for charitable purposes from local and international disciples from many different countries wishing to support His Holiness' various charitable activities. Any suggestion that these offerings were to be used for illegal purposes is libellous.
At this point, about the Chinese currency we can say that his Holiness has a large following of Tibetans from Tibet who make donations in Chinese currency. The fact is that His Holiness the Karmapa has millions of followers around the world, who hold him in the highest esteem and reverence. All our dealings across the world are honest and completely transparent-anything else would be contrary to the Buddhist principals that we live by.
Because the Gyalwang Karmapa resides in temporary quarters in Dharamsala, his Office of Administration has been seeking to build a monastery as a permanent residence for His Holiness. This project is clearly subject to Indian government approval. The Gyalwang Karmapa's office has kept the relevant Indian government agencies fully informed of its recent plans to purchase suitable land. The potential site was evaluated and cleared by the appropriate governmental offices. The negotiations to purchase the land are still in progress, have been reported to the Indian authorities, and are completely above board.
I can confirm that Shakti Lama was taken into custody yesterday but we are confident of his release very shortly, as soon as we provide the law with the answers they are looking for. I can also confirm that HH the Karmapa has made himself fully available for questioning by the officers concerned.
We will supply as much information as available, as regularly as possible but would also like to state that our first priority is to cooperate fully with the investigations underway.
Issued by Karmapa Office of Administration
29.1.2011
Dharamsala, HP
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The fallacy of Karmapa's Chinese links
Thursday , February 03, 2011 at 16 : 31
The assumption that the Karmapa will create a China-friendly chain of monasteries in the Himalayas by using Himachal Pradesh as a staging point for anti-India campaigns is a fallacy.
The monasteries which dot the Himalayan region from Arunachal to Sikkim, West Bengal, Uttaranchal to Himachal Pradesh & Ladakh belong to different sects of the four schools of Tibetan Buddhism. There is no homogeneity as each of the four schools have their own spiritual leader and are not dependent on each other. However, all schools by and large owe allegiance to the Dalai Lama, the supreme spiritual and temporal head of Tibet.
To take the analysis a little further: Arunachal, our eastern most border state has a large Buddhist following belonging mostly to the Geluk sect (known widely as the "Yellow Hat Sect"). The Geluk sect is headed by the Ganden Tri Rinpoche who is elected to this position. (The Dalai Lama is a member of the Geluk sect but is not the Head of the Geluk sect).
Arunachalis have time and again protested China's claim to their land as part of China's territory and protested the Chinese claims vociferously, even as the mandarins in South Block have made meek diplomatic noises but have not told the Chinese to lay off in no uncertain terms.
The next important state, Sikkim, has been a part of India since 1975. The Karmapa lineage's relations with the Sikkimese people date back to the time of the 12th Karmapa, Changchub Dorji (1703-1732) when the two Karma Kagyu monasteries of Ralang in South Sikkim and Phodang in North Sikkim were established. The Old Rumtek monastery was established thereafter. The Karmapa has overwhelming support here but the people have been peacefully and patiently waiting for over 10 years for the Karmapa's return to Rumtek. Scores of representations have been made to all manner of constitutional authorities.
Finally, on 26th September, 2010 a spontaneous, peaceful rally was attended by tens of thousands in the capital city of Gangtok. Accompanied by mantra-chanting monks, the rally reverberated with lilting and soulful tune of ritual musical instruments and the robust sound of the kettledrums. Perhaps the sound has still not reached the ears of our fate deciders in New Delhi. Yet, no anti-India slogans have been raised and Sikkim continues to be one of the most peaceful states in India.
In the Darjeeling district of West Bengal, there are monasteries belonging to the Drukpa Kagyu, Nyingma, Sakya, and the Karma Kagyu schools. While Darjeeling may be seeking statehood separate from the State of West Bengal, they are not seeking separation from India.
While other monasteries in Uttarachanchal, Himachal Pradesh and Ladakh may profess the Tibetan Vajrayana tradition, they are not exactly hotbeds of anti-India elements. They are a peace-loving, compassionate lot, proud to be part of this vast nation called India.
To those in the security establishment who perceive a larger conspiracy and a China-sponsored hand in the Karmapa's activities, as a proud Indian, who belongs to the border State of Sikkim, I would say: please apply your minds to protecting India in other ways. We are not gullible enough to promote or appreciate your fantasies borne out of paranoia. Indians in the Himalayan region are not treacherous beings and to see them as willing allies in an effort to destabilize India is simply preposterous. The Karmapa is not running the local office of the Chinese security establishment.
The Karmapa lineage is 900 years old this year. The 17th Karmapa, Ugyen Trinlay Dorji, is a shining beacon and hope for the present age. Let us not trash his character and destroy our own moral fibre. If we do that, we are no better than the people who attempted to destroy the Tibetan nation and her people and committed untold misery.
The sooner our security agencies recognize the fallacy in the assumption that the Karmapa is an agent of our adversary, the better for our country.
Source: http://ibnlive.in.com/blogs/thinlaytopgay/2914/62196/the-fallacy-of-karmapas-chinese-links.html
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Just to update on this sad issue, the article below states that "The refugee status of Karmapa would be terminating this year in June and it would be difficult for the Centre to give an extension to Karmapa for staying here in Dharamsala owing to his office allegedly being involved in money laundering amidst suspicions that most of the foreign currency had come from China."
If the Karmapa is not permitted to stay in India, especially for the reasons of any suspected impropriety, he will definitely not be part of the TGIE in the foreseeable future.
Does anyone know who would be the likely successor to the Dalai Lama in this case, or even if there will be a successor?
Now Chinese SIM cards recovered
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Now-Chinese-SIM-cards-recovered/articleshow/7435083.cms
Naresh Kumar Sharma, TNN, Feb 6, 2011, 07.18am IST
DHARAMSALA: Investigations being conducted in the Karmapa monastery raid case, after the recovery of a huge haul of foreign currency totalling Rs 9 crore, has indicated towards a strong possibility of the 17th Karmapa, Ogyene Trinley Dorje, having a Beijing connection. After seizure of Chinese Yuan, now the recovery of Chinese SIM cards has strengthened the Chinese link theory.
Police sources said that in the investigation conducted so far, enough evidence has been collected which was indicative of Karmapa's possible links with Beijing.
Karmapa was thrust into limelight recently after foreign currency was seized from Gyuto monastery at Sidhbari, while the benami land deal issue surfaced too.
While the Karmapa and his staff are asserting that foreign currency worth Rs 9 crore recovered from the monastery during raids had come from offerings, the state police has been maintaining that the foreign currency was recovered in neatly packed consignments which makes it difficult to believe that it came through donations.
Besides this, some other important material and evidence including two-three Chinese SIM cards had also been recovered by the state police during investigations which may establish Karmapa's possible links with China.
The refugee status of Karmapa would be terminating this year in June and it would be difficult for the Centre to give an extension to Karmapa for staying here in Dharamsla owing to his office allegedly being involved in money laundering amidst suspicions that most of the foreign currency had come from China.
The state police believes that Karmapa had been maintaining contacts with Beijing as part of the Chinese game-plan to control monasteries in the Himalayan region from Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir to Twang in Aruanchal Pradesh.
Inspector General of Police (IGP), Dharamsala northern range, P L Thakur told TOI that substantial evidence has been collected in the investigations conducted in the Karmapa monastery case hinting at possible Chinese connections. He, however, said that before coming to any conclusion various leads were being verified.
Read more: Now Chinese SIM cards recovered - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Now-Chinese-SIM-cards-recovered/articleshow/7435083.cms#ixzz1DBtKnivO
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One thing positive about the Karmapa is that his current incarnation and previous has not spoken negatively about Dorje Shugden as far as I know. Can anyone confirm this?
There was a discussion last year on another thread [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg10362#msg10362[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg10362#msg10362[/url]) and beggar shared this story about the 16th Karmapa from Dagom Rinpoche:
I have heard for a fact that back in the 70s or 80s (I think... though i'm a little rusty with dates) the Karmapa went to an opening of a Nyingma monastery in Nepal. There, they had a statue of Dorje Drolod which had been modified and shown to be stepping on Dorje Shugden. Karmapa was very angry when he saw this. He said, “Who made this? Where did this lineage come from? Show me the monk who did this.” He left the monastery very unhappy.
More than that, the Karmapa predicted then to the Nyingmas at the monastery, “You will have no choice in the future but to practice this protector; there will come a time when you need him" referring of course to Dorje Shugden.
This incident has been written and recorded down by Dagom Rinpoche himself.
So this is very interesting and shows clearly the Karmapa not being against Dorje Shugden and not encouraging it when people defame the practice. He also gives us a strong example of inter-lineage and inter-faith respect and being very clearly against any hint of sectarianism. This is how we should all be, after all!!
There's another version of this story where the Karmapa insists that they remove the statue of Dorje Drolo stepping on Shugden. These are only details though - I like the main message of this story very much which is that no one should tolerate putting down Dorje Shugden, whether you are from the same lineage or not.
It is stories like this of high lamas like HH the Karmapa and HH Penor Rinpoche, who gave provisions to Shugden monks, that proves that Dorje Shugden practice does not encourage sectarianism.
Thanks WisdomBeing. I do believe the Karmapa is no ordinary being. Time will tell how Dorje Shugden will play an important role in our lives...
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Wow! This is rather big news and I wonder how this will affect the leadership of TGIE. Like what was mentioned, I felt it was ironic that the TGIE's golden boy, the Karmapa is labeled a Chinese spy when they had been labeling us, Shugdenpas as Chinese spies for years! The attention has indeed been turned to the Karmapa now and what he is going to do.
I think this is big because, it is the Indians that are making this accusations and they are indeed sensitive due to a rather long standing border dispute with China. This issue has touched a very sensitive national pride of Indians and if the Indians can't trust the Karmapa, they wouldn't back him up when he comes to power. This has huge repercussions and would indeed take a long time to repair. In many ways, this Karmapa issue will continue to overshadow the Dorje Shugden ban for quite awhile. Perhaps, it is a blessing from the Karmapa so the attention is taken away from the Dorje Shugden ban.
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‘Go slow’ on Karmapa
Source: http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110207/jsp/frontpage/story_13546454.jsp
New Delhi, Feb. 6: The Himachal Pradesh government has been told to “go slow” on the Karmapa case by the highest offices in Delhi, sources said today in an indication that the matter should be treated with utmost care by the state government.
The communication suggested that the Prime Minister’s Office had taken a final view on the matter. The sources said that the central agencies working on several cases of benami property and land deals managed by the Karmapa’s office may now “go slow”.
Reports from Sikkim, Arunachal Pradesh and Himachal indicated that support for Ugyen Trinley Dorje, whom Delhi does not consider the Karmapa, had spilled on to the streets. “It seems the government has backed off because of pressure,” said a source.
Although the government has not officially ruled out arresting the Karmapa after Chinese yuans amounting to several crores were found in his Dharamshala monastery, fissures in the Congress surfaced on how to deal with the Karmapa and his aides.
In November 2010, Congress leader Virbhadra Singh and three other MPs — among them former Arunachal Pradesh chief minister Mukut Mithi — wrote to Union home minister P. Chidambaram seeking removal of travel restrictions on Tai Situ Rinpoche, the third-highest in the Kagyu order and the principal supporter of Dorje.
“A formal order must be passed by the ministry of home affairs cancelling all earlier circulars by which restrictions were imposed on the free movement of the Rinpoche, both within and outside the country,” the letter said.
Besides Virbhadra and Mithi, Arunachal Congress MP Takam Sanjay and Sikkim Democratic Front MP .T. Lepcha also supported the move.
Delhi is highly suspicious of Tai Situ, who was in China from 1982-90 and is believed to be extremely close to the leadership there. Intelligence sources revealed that when he returned to India in 1991, he did not obtain the No Objection on Return to India permit from the government mandatory for refugees.
Tai Situ is understood to have conducted the ceremony in Tibet that put Dorje on the throne as the Karmapa.
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The raid on Karmapa Lama's monastery is indeed very shocking news. For whatever the reason the raid was conducted whether it was because the Indian government was trying to show the world that it was doing something about corruption in their country or otherwise, the raid has definitely shook the Tibetan world. The TGIE who has always been accusing Shugden followers as Chinese spy now has someone they ardently support, the Karmapa as a Chinese spy. Definitely a big slap on their face.
It would not be unusual for the Karmapa who is a renown High Lama to have large amount of cash from offerings and donations from all over the world and therefore, an easy target for the Indian goverment. If it is really the case that the Indian government was trying to protect it's reputation at the expense of the Karmapa, it definitely shows a lack of respect for a highly attained spiritual leader such as the Karmapa. If only they know of the severe karmic consequences. Scary....
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Thanks for the news DSFriend. Glad to hear the heat is lessening... also it appears that some of the allegations are false! See the article below. I'm surprised that The Times of India, which is a reputable paper, i would have thought, had published the story about the Chinese Sim cards previously.
Anyway, the sad thing about this is that mud sticks - so if the Karmapa is completely innocent of all charges, his standing is already tarnished and the TGIE still looks... well... a tad red faced...
No Chinese SIMs Found- Italian MP Visits Gyalwa Karmapa
Tuesday, 08 February 2011 14:00 Carly Selby-James, The Tibet Post International
Dharamshala: The Karmapa Office of Administration has released a statement on Monday (7 February) expressing its immense gratitude to those who have shown their unwavering support for His Holiness the 17th Gyalwa Karmapa Rinpoche both within India and from around the world. The statement comes after Matteo Mecacci, a member of the Italian Parliament, paid a personal visit to the Karmapa yesterday at his residence in Dharamshala to show his support.
The Italian MP, who serves on the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Italian Chamber of Deputies, came with the goals of showing his solidarity with the Karmapa amid the current controversy and requesting spiritual solidarity in return, while at the same time expressing unaltered faith in the Indian judicial system.
The Office's statement also condemned what it labelled 'libelous press reports' over the weekend which claimed that Chinese SIM cards had been found on the premises, firmly denying the reports which it says constitute 'libel and outright defamation of character'. The Karmapa's Office claims that no SIM cards were seized from the Karmapa's residence and that Inspector Ramesh Rama of the Kangra police, who was involved in conducting the raids, has backed up this claim.
In refuting the allegations, the Office says it condemns the publishing of 'fictitious' reports by media outlets, naming Times of India as a culprit, and says that journalists should confirm their facts before reporting them and damaging the reputation of such an important figure in Tibetan Buddhism. The Office made it clear that "the fact that such fictitious reports are published without contacting the accused party's spokespersons for comments indicates that these members of the press are are not objective reporters", calling on the press to "rise to the standards of responsible journalism".
The statement concludes that the Karmapa Office of Administration has "issued letters to the editors of the relevant publications seeking an immediate retraction and apology", adding that the Office welcomes any contact from members of the press wishing to check their facts or seek comment.
Last Updated (Tuesday, 08 February 2011 14:15)
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Is it really the case that Karmapa knows any of this going on? He's way to busy being a spiritual man for us to conjure up images of a holy man sitting on hordes of money! How sensationalist of the Indian Media Machine.
@Wisdom Being....
Thats sooo funny, "no CHINESE sim cards were found on the premise" can picture the masses of Indian public going dammit nothing to get worked up about here... its on the decline this breaking news.
Really there isn't much to it is there??? Why wouldn't such a large "residence" have large amounts of cash, don't you think even the Dalai Lama's residence would have just as much? I'm guessing signs will be going up in all tibetan monasteries around the world "please all currencies except the Yuan welcome". Which i guess is possible no? Don't wanna get labelled a spy when they come to check.
What I wonder the most is are the Indian public really so generous having another country in exile occupying their land, while their country men suffer. I mean thats what would happen in the west. And all this political environment of "buddhism" makes for yummy breakfast show discussion.
cheers will see what unfolds next............
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Really there isn't much to it is there??? Why wouldn't such a large "residence" have large amounts of cash, don't you think even the Dalai Lama's residence would have just as much? I'm guessing signs will be going up in all tibetan monasteries around the world "please all currencies except the Yuan welcome". Which i guess is possible no? Don't wanna get labelled a spy when they come to check.
What I wonder the most is are the Indian public really so generous having another country in exile occupying their land, while their country men suffer. I mean thats what would happen in the west. And all this political environment of "buddhism" makes for yummy breakfast show discussion.
cheers will see what unfolds next............
I just think the whole thing's getting a bit ridiculous. In the grand scheme of things, it's not THAT much money..certainly more than I will ever see but all it takes is ONE very wealthy Chinese businessman to make a nice donation, and state that he wishes to remain anonymous. There are plenty of Chinese entreprenuers like that, and the Karmapa's of high enough stature to attract that kind of sponsor.
Maybe the Indian government's just sick of the TGIE messing up their diplomatic efforts with the Chinese. I mean, when the Indians work with Chinese, the TGIE cause a ruckus. When the Indians are anti-Chinese, the TGIE cause a ruckus to drive the wedge even deeper. But why should the Indians and the future of India be held hostage by a stateless people? It's sad yes, but I think India's got enough of their own problems without the TGIE.
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The Karmapa may be cleared of being a Chinese spy for now, but the stain is there and will always be there from now on. The Indian government will be even more wary from now on, and most likely Karmapa and his institution is placed under the list of observation. This is the task of the secret police as it concerns national security, the Karmapa's whreabouts will be tightly scrutinized, and it takes a lot to close the file, if ever.
If the Tibetan government continues to show support to the Karmapa, they have to be careful now not to offend the Indian government further, because they are openly showing support to someone under the India government's watchlist.
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I wonder what is going to happen next? There is so much heat on the Karmapa now, what about Dorje Shugden? What about us, Shugdenpas? Does that mean they are too busy trying to cover and solve the Karmapa issue that the ban on Dorje Shugden is slowly loosing support? What do you guys think?
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Yes, I do think so too that the stigma will be there for a very long time.
It's been 11 years since Karmapa, then 14 years old, escaped from China under dramatic circumstances. This event still causes the Indian Govt and many others to keep a close eye on Karmapa that his claims of escaping from China was because he wanted to be close to the Dalai Lama and not that he is Chinese plant!
How much weight will this event be as a factor for the "ruling powers" (whoever they may be) to decide if the karmapa will be the next head to replace HHDL or not. How will it be like for Shugdenpas in India if Karmapa takes over....?
How much liberty will TGIE have to operate under Indian Govt's close watch after the passing of HHDL (with respect)
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I wonder what is going to happen next? There is so much heat on the Karmapa now, what about Dorje Shugden? What about us, Shugdenpas? Does that mean they are too busy trying to cover and solve the Karmapa issue that the ban on Dorje Shugden is slowly loosing support? What do you guys think?
Good question...In my personal opinion, I don't think that Shugdenpas will get any lighter treatment than the current one (unfortunately!). I do think, however, that the majority of the people who are aware of the Karmapa issue will think twice about any decisions that the TGIE makes, including major ones like the ban of Dorje Shugden.
I believe this is so because (although I have no stance on the Karmapa issue), the TGIE have been promoting the 17th Karmapa very strongly, who is now accused of being a Chinese spy and is part of quite a big case involving illegal funds. This is quite a harsh accusation, and apparently it is very hot news in India and there are no intentions of it dying down...
The reputation of the TGIE is shaky. Believing in what they say will now be a little like: if you were investing in a company who had made good investments for you, and suddenly there was a fraud case with them being in the spotlight. You probably would think twice the next time you invest!
Shugdenpas will probably get the same treatment, but at least other people's views would change...especially if and when HHDL is not around anymore. They have will have no more golden halo to hide behind, just a closet full of ugly skeletons.
What do you think?
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Shugdenpas doesn't seem to get it any lighter yet but ironically, Dorje Shugden Monasteries are still mushrooming all over. How amazing!
I do not think the ban will have effect much longer. As the years passes, more and more tulkus are returning, who practiced Dorje Shugden, the supposedly demon in their previous lives.
How silly the ban will look on the basis that Dorje Shugden is a demon, threatens the life of HHDL, Tibetan freedom thus making Shugdenpas to be chinese spies! And now, the icing on top of the Silly Ban Cake is TGIE's own being accused as possible chinese spy.
Now, who would eat such a Silly Ban Cake served out by TGIE!
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I don’t think that Buddhism will ever be free of politics in this politically charged arena of the world today. However, Holy Beings as Boddhisattvas, will continue to ensure that Buddhadharma will bloom and grow at all cost, for the benefit of all beings.
The Dalai Lama and the Karmapa are Holy Beings. What is happening re- the Karmapa being accused as a Chinese spy , is a case (as has been commented on) of karma returning back to the TGIE for their years of hounding Shugdenpas as Chinese spies.
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I don’t think that Buddhism will ever be free of politics in this politically charged arena of the world today. However, Holy Beings as Boddhisattvas, will continue to ensure that Buddhadharma will bloom and grow at all cost, for the benefit of all beings.
The Dalai Lama and the Karmapa are Holy Beings. What is happening re- the Karmapa being accused as a Chinese spy , is a case (as has been commented on) of karma returning back to the TGIE for their years of hounding Shugdenpas as Chinese spies.
Welcome to the forum Vajrastorm. I've read quite a few of your comments in the Articles section and appreciates your sharing very much. Looking forward to your sharing in here the forum. Also, do familiarize yourself with the house rules if you haven't.
best wishes
DSFriend
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Karmapa - King of Karma and Karma does come back to haunt even the King of Karma?
Another "illusory play" for all to see or understand how no one can escape the forces of Karma.
TGIE's time is running out. They have nothing more that they can do or say.
Seriously, what is there really left for TGIE? There is no country to fight for, and soon, there will be no ruler either (sorry to say). They are really losing ground.
With the recent events and how the Indian Government has handled the investigation of the Karmapa - it clearly shows that they do not have much warmth or respect for the Karmapa as they clearly with HH the Dalai Lama. So, what will happen to all the Tibetans in Exile? What will happen to TGIE?
I think the answer is loud and clear.
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HH the Dalai Lama Delivers Lecture in Goa
February 8th 2011
Panaji, Goa, India, 7 Feb 2011 (Various Media Reports) - The Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, has said that his deep-rooted relationship with India would not be affected by recent developments, including that of the Karmapa controversy and also in the broader context of India's relationship with China.
At the end of a Goa State Government sponsored lecture on “Ethics for the new Millennium” at the D.D. Kosambi Festival of Ideas 2011 here on Monday, the Dalai Lama was answering a specific question whether he was concerned about the implications of the recent controversy and about the otherwise “growing feeling of inconvenience about his relationship which existed over decades” with India.
He dismissed the Karmapa episode saying it was the result of “carelessness to keep proper records of money” and called it “a mistake and nothing serious” to have any consequences on their long-standing relationship with India and the future of the Tibetan community in India.
“Our relationship is not just a matter of a few decades, but a few thousand years. I view this relationship like the guru-chela relationship in the greatest Indian tradition — India our guru and we its chelas.” The Dalai Lama recalled a letter addressed to him by Morarji Desai in response to his congratulatory letter wherein he had described India and Tibet as two branches of one Buddhist tree and said, “the tree grew in India and spread its branch to Tibet. That is the basic sort of relationship with this country.”
"Six million Tibetans are physically controlled by China but 99% of their minds look at India," he said.
Commenting on Indian politicians, the Dalai Lama said they lack the spirit of great freedom fighters like Mahatma Gandhi.
The Dalai Lama recalled that he was invited when a huge statue of Mahatma Gandhi was installed in front of the Parliament.
"I am not a politician but at that time I had told Indian politicians that they must remember about Gandhiji''s truthfulness," he said.
The Nobel laureate said that Indian freedom fighters had worked selflessly and fearlessly for the country.
"They did their work honestly," he said, adding that although India got independence 60 years ago, "the current politicians lacked spirit of these freedom fighters."
He said that compared to other nations, India was stable because of democracy and independent judiciary.
"If people involved in justice are even little corrupt then it would be a disaster for the nation," he added.
During his two hour long lecture, the Dalai Lama also asked the media to play a responsible role.
"People in media have a special role to play. They can stop the wrong doings," he said and added that media should have a long nose like an elephant and should be able to smell things which are beyond the superficial reality.
"Investigate what''s going on thoroughly and inform people in unbiased form," the spiritual leader advised.
The Dalai Lama also said that India should focus on printing books that enable to spread the wealth of knowledge present in the country.
"There should be libraries in temples instead of statues," the Nobel Laureate said while responding to a query.
India has been a store house of information for the last 3,000 years and libraries in temple would motivate people towards education, he said.
"For thousands of years India has been a messenger of ''ahimsa'' and religious harmony. This itself is a message to the world," he said.
The Dalai Lama recalled an incident when a person told him about plans to build a Buddha statue.
"I told him, a Buddha statue does not speak. Instead of it, print more books that is more important," he said, adding after several wars in the last century, the 21st century should be known as the century of dialogue.
The Dalai Lama also said he was once "very much" attracted to Marxism and even wanted to join the Chinese Communist Party, which he now feels is bereft of Communist ideology.
"I was very much attracted to the internationalism of Marxism. I wanted to join the Chinese Communist party, (but) today the Chinese Communist Party is without Communist ideology," he said during the interaction session.
The spiritual and temporal leader of Tibetan Buddhists, living in exile in India for decades, still does not find anything wrong about Marxism as an ideology.
"As far as socio-economic theory is concerned, I am a Marxist," he said terming the present day Communism in China as "Capitalist Communism".
Maintaining that there was a time when Chinese Communists really worked for the needy, the Dalai Lama said, "The spirit of Marxism died in China, after the Chinese Communist Party started silencing both criticism and critics of people in power."
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Karmapa - King of Karma and Karma does come back to haunt even the King of Karma?
Another "illusory play" for all to see or understand how no one can escape the forces of Karma.
TGIE's time is running out. They have nothing more that they can do or say.
Seriously, what is there really left for TGIE? There is no country to fight for, and soon, there will be no ruler either (sorry to say). They are really losing ground.
With the recent events and how the Indian Government has handled the investigation of the Karmapa - it clearly shows that they do not have much warmth or respect for the Karmapa as they clearly with HH the Dalai Lama. So, what will happen to all the Tibetans in Exile? What will happen to TGIE?
I think the answer is loud and clear.
Speaking of karma, I think it's come to bite them on the arse (pardon mon francais, or summit like that). They have no successor. They don't groom anyone, don't elect anyone. They shot themselves in the foot. They pick their favourites, put all their hopes on them...and then that's it. They're left at the mercy of others. Again the Indian government has shown that they are in control; TGIE do not exist as an independent entity. Seriously, where does the TGIE's power come from, if not from His Holiness the Dalai Lama? They have no legal standing.
Great example of impermanence, I feel. Pick someone, pin your hopes on them...and then whoops, their reputation is sullied, leaving your decades of work and effort and PR gone to waste.
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Karmapa - King of Karma and Karma does come back to haunt even the King of Karma?
Another "illusory play" for all to see or understand how no one can escape the forces of Karma.
TGIE's time is running out. They have nothing more that they can do or say.
Seriously, what is there really left for TGIE? There is no country to fight for, and soon, there will be no ruler either (sorry to say). They are really losing ground.
With the recent events and how the Indian Government has handled the investigation of the Karmapa - it clearly shows that they do not have much warmth or respect for the Karmapa as they clearly with HH the Dalai Lama. So, what will happen to all the Tibetans in Exile? What will happen to TGIE?
I think the answer is loud and clear.
Speaking of karma, I think it's come to bite them on the arse (pardon mon francais, or summit like that). They have no successor. They don't groom anyone, don't elect anyone. They shot themselves in the foot. They pick their favourites, put all their hopes on them...and then that's it. They're left at the mercy of others. Again the Indian government has shown that they are in control; TGIE do not exist as an independent entity. Seriously, where does the TGIE's power come from, if not from His Holiness the Dalai Lama? They have no legal standing.
Great example of impermanence, I feel. Pick someone, pin your hopes on them...and then whoops, their reputation is sullied, leaving your decades of work and effort and PR gone to waste.
Hypothetical question:
Could all these be the skillful manifestations of enlightened beings, and TGIE is just a puppet on strings of compassion?
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During his two hour long lecture, the Dalai Lama also asked the media to play a responsible role.
"People in media have a special role to play. They can stop the wrong doings," he said and added that media should have a long nose like an elephant and should be able to smell things which are beyond the superficial reality.
"Investigate what''s going on thoroughly and inform people in unbiased form," the spiritual leader advised.
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"I told him, a Buddha statue does not speak. Instead of it, print more books that is more important," he said, adding after several wars in the last century, the 21st century should be known as the century of dialogue.
I just wanted to highlight these points from the article DSFriend posted. Although it was essentially a political speech seeking to mend bridges with the Indian government, the Dalai Lama raises here for people to investigate thoroughly - which is what he has also told people to do regarding the Shugden issue. To me, it has an underlying message - it is for us to make up our own minds and not just blindly follow what is said - by the media or even by the Dalai Lama himself.
Re the printing of books - while knowledge is good and a book can help us to learn - even books don't speak, but a Guru does, so we should listen to a Guru above all, right?
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Just read this
Himachal Gives Clean Chit To Karmapa Lama
http://himachal.us/2011/02/11/26165/26165/news/baldev/comment-page-1
Kind of reminds of the fact that if one does not have the karma to be harmed one would not be harmed if one was in a war zone or battlefield. Nothing was mentioned here about the spy issue, i suppose that drops as well.
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Just read this
Himachal Gives Clean Chit To Karmapa Lama
[url]http://himachal.us/2011/02/11/26165/26165/news/baldev/comment-page-1[/url]
Kind of reminds of the fact that if one does not have the karma to be harmed one would not be harmed if one was in a war zone or battlefield. Nothing was mentioned here about the spy issue, i suppose that drops as well.
I do believe that any negative circumstances which arise is not due to the karma of highly attained beings. If any obstacles arose, it is due to the negative karma of the students. This article states that karmapa's not involved. If that's the case, either there's no wrong doing from anyone or the accusations
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Source : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/Nothing-wrong-with-Karmapas-money/articleshow/7490536.cms (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/Nothing-wrong-with-Karmapas-money/articleshow/7490536.cms)
Times of India
Feb 14th, 2011
Nothing wrong with Karmapa's money
ILONIA (AJMER): Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama on Sunday reiterated there was nothing wrong with Karmapa Ugyen Trinley Dorje's unaccounted money recovered from Buddhist monastery near Dharamshala.
Talking to reporters at Barefoot College, Tilonia in Ajmer, the Dalai Lama said, "A lot of money comes from devotees from across the world, including China and the money was not recorded properly." The Dalai Lama left Rajasthan on Sunday after spending four days in the state visiting Jodhpur, Jaipur and Tilonia.
He has maintained the same line ever since the Himachal police registered case against Karmapa. The Dalai Lama said it a day after Himachal chief minister Prem Kumar Dhumal said the foreign currency case was being investigated and there was no clean chit given to Karmapa. On Friday, Himachal chief secretary also said that Karmapa was not at fault.
The Dalai Lama said, "Trust should maintain a proper register and record contributions from devotees."
The Dharamshala police is investigating the source of $ 1.6 million seized from the shrine in various currencies, including the Chinese yuan last month. Investigators have recovered Chinese SIM cards from the shrine.
Some 284 Chinese nationals visited the shrine between January 1 and December 31 last year and that strengthened police suspicion on the 17 Karmapa's Chinese connections. They believe the Karmapa has been in touch with Beijing as part of the Chinese plan to control monasteries in the Himalayan region from Ladakh in Jammu & Kashmir to Twang in Arunachal Pradesh.
The Karmapa's supporters maintain that foreign currency worth Rs 9 crore recovered from the monastery was part of the offerings. And the Dalai Lama also thinks the same.
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During his two hour long lecture, the Dalai Lama also asked the media to play a responsible role.
"People in media have a special role to play. They can stop the wrong doings," he said and added that media should have a long nose like an elephant and should be able to smell things which are beyond the superficial reality.
"Investigate what''s going on thoroughly and inform people in unbiased form," the spiritual leader advised.
.....
"I told him, a Buddha statue does not speak. Instead of it, print more books that is more important," he said, adding after several wars in the last century, the 21st century should be known as the century of dialogue.
I just wanted to highlight these points from the article DSFriend posted. Although it was essentially a political speech seeking to mend bridges with the Indian government, the Dalai Lama raises here for people to investigate thoroughly - which is what he has also told people to do regarding the Shugden issue. To me, it has an underlying message - it is for us to make up our own minds and not just blindly follow what is said - by the media or even by the Dalai Lama himself.
Re the printing of books - while knowledge is good and a book can help us to learn - even books don't speak, but a Guru does, so we should listen to a Guru above all, right?
I especially liked what you wrote here, WB.
Without a Guru, our understanding will be very limited and our transformation or progress will be much slower.
May there always be a Guru for every sentient being for as long as time and space remains.
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The Indian government is flexing more muscle - watch out TGIE:
Himachal Pradesh govt to acquire land of Karmapa's Gyuto Monastery
Published: Monday, Feb 14, 2011, 19:23 IST
Himachal Pradesh government is now moving to acquire the land of Gyuto Monastery, the transit home of Karmapa Ugyen Trinley Dorje, as the probe into seizure of large amount of foreign currency from the monastery brought fresh focus on benami deals by the community members.
Officials said that the process of mutation of 'benami' lands in possession of "the Dalai Lama's administration" was on since 2006 and the titles of 73 such properties, including the sprawling premises of Gyuto Monastery, are being transferred in the name of the government.
The government had agreed to consider regularisation of these 'benami' properties by vesting the ownership in the government and further leasing these out to Tibetan Administration, they said.
The information about these lands on which the Tibetan "government-in-exile" had raised structures was provided to the government by Tibetan "administration", official sources said.
Kangra Deputy Commissioner RS Gupta said that it was a routine revenue exercise and mutation in 40 cases had already been done while the title transfer in respect of remaining lands was in process.
"The Gyuto Monastery complex was one such property on which the Dalai Lama administration had build the monastery and the land on which the construction had been done would vest in the government," he said.
Officials said that the process of "regularising" these properties has been hastened after foreign currency worth Rs 7.5 crore belonging to 25 countries including China was recovered by police from the premises of a Karmapa-backed trust and some of the trustees.
The raids followed recovery of Rs one crore from two persons on Mehatpur border on January 25 last, allegedly drawn from a bank in Delhi for some land deal.
However, Gupta said that there will be no immediate physical takeover of the property.
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Karmapa’s office denies benami land deal
Press Trust Of India
Shimla/Dharamsala, February 16, 2011
The office of Tibetan spiritual leader Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorji has denied the deal for purchase of land by the Karmapa-backed Karmae Garchen Trust was "benami." "We wish to reiterate that this was in no way a benami land deal and the land in question was being purchased in the Trust's own name, with full knowledge of the Indian government", Karma Topden and Deki Chungyalpa, official spokespersons of the Karmapa's office, said.
They claimed the Trust had received a no-objection certificate from the Town and Country Planning Department of the Himachal Pradesh government on December 3, 2010, indicating the state government’s preliminary approval to proceed with the plans to purchase the land.
The spokespersons said since his arrival in India in 2000, the Karmapa had been hosted in a temporary residence in Dharamsala at Gyuto Monastery which belongs to a different Tibetan Buddhist sect.
The Karmae Garchen Trust was seeking to purchase the land in its own name for building a permanent residence and monastery for the Karmapa. They claimed the Dalai Lama had again publicly reaffirmed his confidence in the Karmapa and reiterated that the money seized was unsolicited donations.
The Prime Minister of the Tibetan government-in-exile, Professor Samdhong Rinpoche, also paid a cordial visit yesterday to the Karmapa at his temporary residence located on the grounds of Gyuto Monastery, the spokespersons added.
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Looks like the Karmapa is cleared of allegations. Does anyone know what "the Centre" is though? (sorry, not very well versed in Indian politics)
Clean chit to Karmapa Lama welcomed
Gangtok: The Karmapa Reception Committee and Joint Action Committee, a representation of 18 Buddhist organizations of Sikkim, today jointly welcomed the clean chit given to the XVIIth Karmapa Ogyen Trinley by the Centre.
During a press conference in Gangtok, general secretary of the Karmapa Reception Committee K T Bhutia expressed their gratitude to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, UPA Chairperson Sonia Gandhi, Home Minister P Chidambaram and Home Secretary G K Pillai "for laying to rest all allegations levelled against the Karmapa".
Appealing to the Central government to allow the Karmapa to visit Sikkim and take his "rightful place" at Rumtek, JAC president Kunzang Sherpa commended the Home Secretary's 'understanding of the very innocent' nature of the financial oversight of the Karmapas managers 'born out of ignorance'.
They speakers said a delegation of the organizations would also soon call on Chief Minister Pawan Chamling to pursue with the central government about the Karmapa's visit to Sikkim.
The Centre, on February 16, is understood to have given a clean chit to the Karmapa in the case relating to the huge foreign currency haul from his house saying the money had come in the form of donations and offerings by devotees.
This was the conclusion arrived by the Central government after its agencies probed the case following the recovery of foreign currency to the tune of Rs. 7.5 crore from the Gyuto Monastery, the transit home of the Karmapa, in Himachal Pradesh.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/clean-chit-to-karmapa-lama-welcomed-86513
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Looks like the Karmapa is cleared of allegations. Does anyone know what "the Centre" is though? (sorry, not very well versed in Indian politics)
The Government of India, officially known as the Union Government is also called the Central Government. I would think "Centre" refers to Central Government.
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Yes, the Karmapa may have been cleared of allegations but the whole issue will stay on the collective minds of the Indian people for quite awhile. This is already stain on the Karmapa's squeaky clean image and I think that would have implications for the TGIE. Throughout the whole incident, TGIE was surprisingly quiet about the Karmapa. Anyone heard any statements by the TGIE? I think the entire incident will still haunt the TGIE for quite awhile. They seem powerless to support their golden boy. It looks like the same will happen once the Dalai Lama passes on, the TGIE will be powerless to further impose any more of its ridiculous bans and implementations.
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Ya, the TGIE was quiet about this case. Anyway, TGIE's words doesn't carry much weight. Which is what's sad and worrying when the Dalai Lama is not longer around.
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The Karmapa hits Newsweek! In http://www.newsweek.com/2011/02/20/the-politics-of-reincarnation.html, there's a good summary of the situation with the Karmapa which also mentions the succession issue of the Dalai Lama.
This sentence in particular resonated with me: "The politics of reincarnation has always been a treacherous area in Tibet. In past centuries, rival claimants were often in danger of assassination,..." because Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was assassinated because of rivalry with the 5th Dalai Lama!
The Politics of Reincarnation
by Melinda Liu, February 20, 2011
It’s probably best not to even try making sense of Beijing’s pronouncements on the 14th Dalai Lama and other Tibetan spiritual leaders: you’ll only make your head hurt. Last week the officially atheist Chinese government’s State Administration for Religious Affairs disclosed plans to enact a new law forbidding the 75-year-old Buddhist deity to be reborn anywhere but on Chinese-controlled soil, and giving final say to Chinese authorities when the time comes to identify his 15th incarnation.
That might seem to pose a dilemma, given the exiled leader’s earlier promise that he will never again be reincarnated in Tibet as long as his homeland remains under China’s heel. Still, no one seems too concerned just now about the Dalai Lama’s next life. Instead, attention has focused on an all-too-worldly fracas over the finances of the 25-year-old Tibetan-born holy man who seems most likely to assume leadership of the exile community after the current Dalai Lama’s death: the 17th Karmapa Lama.
It began in late January when a random police check found a car in northern India hauling roughly $200,000 in Indian currency. Investigators followed the trail to the Karmapa’s monastery in the Indian town of Dharamsala, where they confiscated trunkloads of cash, reportedly amounting to $1.6 million, including more than $100,000 in Chinese currency—a discovery that immediately revived old suspicions in India’s intelligence community that the Karmapa is a Chinese spy. Beijing didn’t help calm the situation when it quickly issued a denial that the Karmapa was any such thing.
Indian authorities have kept a close eye on the Karmapa ever since he fled Chinese-occupied Tibet in the winter of 1999–2000. Born to a nomadic Tibetan family in 1985, Ogyen Trinley Dorje was identified at the age of 7 as the reincarnation of the 16th Karmapa and taken to a monastery to be raised under constant surveillance by Chinese security forces, forbidden to leave the country even briefly. When his India-based religious tutor was barred from Tibet, the boy staged a harrowing escape via SUV, horseback, and helicopter, arriving in Dharamsala by taxi in early January 2000.
In the years since, the Karmapa has refrained from criticizing the Chinese government—in sharp contrast to the Dalai Lama’s blunt denunciations since his escape from occupied Tibet in 1959—and Beijing has never admitted that the Karmapa has left for good. The Chinese say he’s merely on a quest to retrieve a black hat said to have magical powers and other artifacts currently housed at a monastery in the eastern Himalayan state of Sikkim. The lack of recrimination has only heightened suspicions among some Indian intelligence operatives who still seem unable to accept that a mere 14-year-old could elude Chinese security forces and survive such a trek across snow-choked Himalayan passes. “There are people in the shadows who are suspicious of China and deeply uncomfortable with the Tibetan exiles’ perceived long-term drift towards accommodation with Beijing,” says Robert Barnett, a Tibetologist at Columbia University.
The politics of reincarnation has always been a treacherous area in Tibet. In past centuries, rival claimants were often in danger of assassination, and after the Dalai Lama gave his blessing to a Tibetan boy as the 11th Panchen Lama in 1995, the child disappeared and Chinese authorities installed another youngster in his place. The man generally recognized as the 17th Karmapa himself has at least two rivals for the title, although his claim is supported by both the Dalai Lama and Beijing—and most ordinary Tibetans. Still, to prevent possible unrest, Indian authorities have barred all claimants from the monastery where the black hat is kept. Followers of the two rivals have clashed violently in the past.
As for the mysterious trunkfuls of cash, the Karmapa’s financial representatives stuck to their story that the money had all been donated by his devout followers—including many inside China. And by last week Indian investigators at last conceded that they were telling the truth. “I’ve seen Chinese society ladies swooning all over him,” says Jamyang Norbu, a U.S.-based author and blogger. “This translates into big money.” (Any inclination to celebrate the Karmapa’s exoneration was dampened by news that the Dalai Lama’s 45-year-old nephew had been struck and killed by an SUV while engaged in a 300-mile “Free Tibet” hike in Florida.)
Nevertheless, the uproar was no more than a tame affair compared with what’s sure to ensue when the 14th Dalai Lama finally moves on. He’s said he might come back as a woman, or he might not come back at all. The one certainty is that he won’t go quietly.
With Sudip Mazumdar in New Delhi
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WB, thanks for posting the Newsweek article here for all to read.
The title is truly befitting - the Politics of Reincarnation.
Even without China's rules and policies - Tibet has had long experienced their own politics in their religious institutions. It would not be anything new.
I am reminded of how reincarnations of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen can be banned or prohibited from being found. Everything related to this high Lama was systematically wiped out and erased. As if he never existed.
Or how they have taken out names of previous Gurus from their prayers.
The list goes on...politics exist everywhere because different fractions hold their own vested interests to be most important, above all else.
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Yes, the Karmapa may have been cleared of allegations but the whole issue will stay on the collective minds of the Indian people for quite awhile. This is already stain on the Karmapa's squeaky clean image and I think that would have implications for the TGIE. Throughout the whole incident, TGIE was surprisingly quiet about the Karmapa. Anyone heard any statements by the TGIE? I think the entire incident will still haunt the TGIE for quite awhile. They seem powerless to support their golden boy. It looks like the same will happen once the Dalai Lama passes on, the TGIE will be powerless to further impose any more of its ridiculous bans and implementations.
I agree with you there. Unfortunately, people will now always be suspicious of the karmapa and, sadly, perhaps even of other lamas who may have many resources / wealth / properties. Such is the sorry situation that the TGIE have created for themselves and their own great Lamas, who do not deserve this kind of bad rep in any way!
Yes, the TGIE have been very quiet throughout this fiasco. Then again, what did we really expect them to say?
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I am reminded of how reincarnations of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen can be banned or prohibited from being found. Everything related to this high Lama was systematically wiped out and erased. As if he never existed.
Or how they have taken out names of previous Gurus from their prayers.
The list goes on...politics exist everywhere because different fractions hold their own vested interests to be most important, above all else.
Good point Helena! Again - is the Tibetan government's karma coming back to them about this too.. since the Tibetan government banned Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's lineage 300 years ago and recently the TGIE removed Trijang Rinpoche's names from prayers, the Chinese government is now declaring that they are in control over recognition of reincarnations now.
We can really take refuge in karma.
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It's interesting that the Karmapa has been given a 'clean chit' but the local government seems to be uninformed in this article on The Central Chronicle. I get the feeling that there's some state vs national politics here but i thought it was interesting that while the Karmapa appears to be declared innocent, seven people are still under arrest. It's not a clear cut case.
HP yet to receive info about clean chit to Karmapa
Shimla, Mar 1:
The Himachal Pradesh government has not received any information about 'clean chit' given by the Centre to 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorji on foreign currency haul recovered from Gyuto Tantric Monastery complex and it has come to know about it from media reports only.
Himachal Pradesh Chief Minister Prem Kumar Dhumal told in state assembly during question hour today that the state had come to know from media reports only that the union government had given clean chit to Karmapa ''But we have not received any official intimation from the Union government yet,'' he said while replying to a query raised by Kaul Singh (Congress).
He said neither the Centre was under any obligation to inform the state about it nor it was desirable on the part of the state to seek any information.
The state government would not ask the Centre about it but the Union government can part with relevant information if it wished to do so, he observed.
Dhumal said seven people namely Sanjog Dutt, Ashutosh, Shakti Lama, Karma Kunke Khampa, Rinzin Wango, KP Bharadwaj and DK Dhar had been arrested and were in judicial custody in the matter.
He said huge currency, including foreign currency of China, United States and twenty two other countries had been recovered during the raids by the security agencies.
He said 12,01,97 Chinese Yuan, 6,47,396 US dollars and 6900 US dollars travellers cheques, 6,42,740 Hongkong dollars, 742,900 Taiwan dollars, 4,21,892 Nepalese rupees and Indian currency worth Rs 53,65,265, currencies of Singapore, Australia, UK, Bhutan, Indonesia, Germany and some other countries were also recovered during the raids.
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Just to keep the forum updated with the latest news regarding this issue. It's interesting that the media is constantly saying that the Karmapa is the "third most important Tibetan religious head after the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama." What about Gaden Tripa? Sakya Trizin?
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/147045/karmapas-office-hands-over-150000.html
Deccan Herald
Karmapa's office hands over $150,000 to ED
Dharamsala, March 19 (IANS)
Over a month after the Enforcement Directorate (ED) carried out raids at the monastery where the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje is residing and recovered huge amounts of unaccounted cash, monastery officials have deposited $150,000 with the agency, an official said Saturday.
Officials of the Gyuto Tantric University and Monastery handed over the money to the ED Thursday.
Confirming this to IANS, a spokesperson for the Karmapa said: "This represents cash that was reported to the authorities in 2003. Submitting it to the ED Thursday was simply part of our process of ensuring that the Karmapa Office of Administration is in full compliance."
The spokesperson in a written statement added: "We continue to cooperate fully with the ED and other investigating agencies."
However, the Karmapa's office refused to divulge the details about the amount.
An official in the ED's Chandigarh office said $150,000 in US currency was deposited. "Two monastery accountants were summoned for questioning. They surrendered US currency," he said.
The official said the Karmapa's aide Rubgi Chosang, also known as Shakti Lama, and two other Tibetans, who got bail from a court, would appear in the ED office Monday.
The Himachal Pradesh High Court March 16 granted bail to Shakti Lama and a couple - Karma Thapa and his wife Rinzin, to join the investigation and appear at the ED office in Chandigarh.
It was after the seizure of Rs.1 crore meant for land purchase that the police Jan 28 conducted searches at the monastery and recovered currency of 26 countries, including 120,197 Chinese yuan and around Rs.5.3 million in Indian currency.
Subsequently, police arrested Shakti Lama, the accountant in the monastery, on suspicion that he was involved in some "illegal" land deal for the monastery.
Later, police arrested the couple in New Delhi in connection with the seizure of Rs.1 crore from two people that was meant as part-payment by the Karmapa's trust to buy land.
The Karmapa's office has been saying that all the money recovered from the monastery was donations from followers, including scores who come from Tibet and carry Chinese currency.
A team of the ED officials from Chandigarh, headed by Deputy Director V. Neeraja, reached the monastery Feb 1 and scanned the account books, ledgers and documents pertaining to financial transactions.
The Karmapa is the spiritual head of the Karma Kagyu school, one of the four sects of Buddhism. He is considered the third most important Tibetan religious head after the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama.
The Karmapa fled Tibet and sought refuge in India in January 2000. Ever since, he has mostly lived in the monastery in Sidhbari near Dharamsala - the seat of the Tibetan government-in-exile.
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I find something interesting.
After the Karmapa money scandal, I don't hear about him 'succeeding' the Dalai Lama anymore. Now it's let's elect our leaders.
Even the Dalai Lama is handing his power over to newly elected lay officials and not Karmapa although I don't think Karmapa was ever part of the real equation of succession anyways. It was just speculation. Why would all sects follow Karmapa? Not viable.
Does anyone else notice after the big money scandal all has been quiet about Karmapa succession speculations?
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I find something interesting.
After the Karmapa money scandal, I don't hear about him 'succeeding' the Dalai Lama anymore. Now it's let's elect our leaders.
Even the Dalai Lama is handing his power over to newly elected lay officials and not Karmapa although I don't think Karmapa was ever part of the real equation of succession anyways. It was just speculation. Why would all sects follow Karmapa? Not viable.
Does anyone else notice after the big money scandal all has been quiet about Karmapa succession speculations?
A very interesting observation thaimonk! It has been quiet all around in all matters regarding the Karmapa!!
Interesting also that immediately after this, Dalai Lama steps down and there starts to be a distinct separation between the spiritual and the secular.
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I have nothing against Karmapa but if he succeeds Dalai Lama I would not follow him. Even if the current Ling Rinpoche succeeds Dalai Lama, I would also not follow him.
Through the whole Dorje Shugden ban ordeal, I have concluded to not follow any religious leaders who has to be involved with politics. They are made or forced by circumstances to enact things that do not match what I view as dharma or dharma activities.
But if one of the great teachers gave teachings and promote the dharma solely, I would very much respect them and pray for their success.
In my experience, for religious practice to just follow my guru whether he is alive or passed away. To follow my guru no matter what the pervasive political atmosphere may be.
TK
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Now that Dalai Lama has handed the reigns of what little power he has left to the Tibetan Govt, it can only get worse on the whole for Tibtans but better for the undemocratic Shugden ban to disappear.
TK
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Perhaps the Tibetan govt and Dalai Lama realized with all of the money Karmapa has, how come he doesn't help the Tibetan govt of Tibetan communities that are not Kagyu. And with this recent scandal, it would be better to pin hopes on 'elected officials'. But either way, it's just a matter of time. Once the Dalai Lama passes away, the Tibetan Govt and whatever 'leaders' they 'elect' into office will also fade. Face the facts now, what power or diplomatic influence does the Tibetan Govt have with any govt in the world? Tibet is a part of China and everyone is afraid of China or needs China. Personally speaking, it seems to make more sense for any leader in the world to be friends with China whether ethically that is right or not. But economically it would serve any country better to be friends with China. China is the New World Order not the West so much anymore.
China will be the head of the New World Order. China will control the world economy, trends and directions. They are too big, too resoureful and to powerful to ignore. The West will do well by showing deference to China. If the Dalai Lama was asking for a last shot to help his ppl in Tibet before he dies, he should appeal to China directly and visit their leadership directly in Beijing. Make friends with them, then from this friendship, visit Tibet and ask Tibetans to cooperate with China as his last wish.Then after his death there will be less bloodshed. Dalai Lama making friends with Western countries is a waste of time and has gotten him nowhere after 50 years. What can the West do? Nothing. China must be respected. The West is facinated with Dalai Lama, but not to the point of forgetting their individual National economic welfare. Dalai Lama should make friends with Beijing as his last hope shot.
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Just when one storm blows over, another one begins... amazing that there is yet another contender. This is the first i've heard of this.
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-04-25/news/29471359_1_17th-karmapa-ogyen-trinley-dorje-16th-karmapa
After cash, Karmapa faces new controversy in contender
KATHMANDU: The Karmapa, the head of one of the four sects of Tibetan Buddhists, who has just survived a controversy over large amounts of foreign and Indian currency found in his monastery in India's Himachal Pradesh, now faces a third contender to the spiritual title.
Sikkim-born Dawa Sangpo Dorje is the third contender for the spiritual title, and at a press conference in Kathmandu Monday asserted that Ogyen Trinley Dorje was not the rightful reincarnation of the Karmapa, Tibetan spiritual leader Dusum Khyenpa who died in 1193 AD. Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the monk recognised by the Tibetan government in exile in India and the Dalai Lama.
Since Dusum Khyenpa's death, the Karma Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhists believes he was born 16 times more, in keeping with the Tibetan tradition of reincarnation of spiritual leaders with supernatural powers.
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Dawa Sangpo Dorjee dares 'ice meditation test' with Dalai Lama
Lama Dawa Sangpo Dorjee, a claimant of the 17th Gyalwa Karmapa to the questionable Rumtek Dharma Chakra seat Tuesday challenged the Dalai Lama to sit for a spiritual test to prove his authority of endorsing Orgyen Trinley Dorjee as the real Karmapa.
WITH JUST months left for Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama’s Sikkim visit, Lama Dawa Sangpo Dorjee, a claimant of the 17th Gyalwa Karmapa to the questionable Rumtek Dharma Chakra seat on Tuesday challenged the Dalai Lama to sit for a spiritual test to prove his authority of endorsing Orgyen Trinley Dorjee as the real Karmapa.
The Karmapa row comes a week after thousands supporters of Orgyen Trinley Dorjee took out a massive rally in Gangtok demanding that the Centre to allow him to take his Rumtek Dharma Chakra seat, which is without a head after the passing away of the sixteenth Gyalwa Karmapa.
Addressing the reporters at his Tathangchen residence, Dawa Sangpo Dorjee said, having failed to meet the Dalai Lama nine times, he would this time try to meet him and call upon to meditate with their body sunken in ice for 7, 9, or 21 hours – to test spiritual power. “If he wins, I will withdraw my all claims of being the real 17th Gyalwa Karmapa, if not then the result is imminent’. Asked on the challenge, the Dawa Sangpo Dorjee said ‘Apart from proving spiritual powers, it can be known as to why he is so interested in the affairs of the Kagyupa sect of Buddhism.’
The Dalai Lama heads the Gyelukpa sect while the 17th Gyalwa Karmapa belongs to the Kagyupa sect.
‘Although I have never tried the challenge, I want to sit only to test the Dalai Lama, so that his interference in the affairs of the Karmapa issue comes to the fore. This is neither against Tibetan Buddhism nor against any individual’, said Dawa Sangpo Dorjee. The Lama further asserted his readiness to face test in all parameters except ‘education’ on which he claimed of being a self taught Lama without a Guru.
Commenting on the September 26 rally for Orgyen Trinley Dorjee, the Karmapa claimant said ‘Majority is not the only benchmark for reinstatement of the real Karmapa. It is not a political game where headcount determines majority’.
Dawa Sangpo Dorjee also criticized the state government’s proposal to develop a power project in the name of Lethang HEP over Rathong Chhu river.
Saying that Rathong Chu project which the state government scrapped in 1997 was being planned as Lethang project, he pointed out that constructing the project on a holy and sacred river is against the religious sentiments of the Buddhists. ‘People should come forward and raise voice against the project’ said the Lama.
source: http://www.merinews.com/article/dawa-sangpo-dorjee-dares-ice-meditation-test-with-dalai-lama/15832283.shtml
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After cash, Karmapa faces new controversy in contender
Kathmandu, April 25 (IANS) The Karmapa, the head of one of the four sects of Tibetan Buddhists, who has just survived a controversy over large amounts of foreign and Indian currency found in his monastery in India’s Himachal Pradesh, now faces a third contender to the spiritual title.
Sikkim-born Dawa Sangpo Dorje is the third contender for the spiritual title, and at a press conference in Kathmandu Monday asserted that Ogyen Trinley Dorje was not the rightful reincarnation of the Karmapa, Tibetan spiritual leader Dusum Khyenpa who died in 1193 AD. Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the monk recognised by the Tibetan government in exile in India and the Dalai Lama.
Since Dusum Khyenpa’s death, the Karma Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhists believes he was born 16 times more, in keeping with the Tibetan tradition of reincarnation of spiritual leaders with supernatural powers.
However, after the death of the 16th Karmapa – Rangjung Rigoe Dorje – in 1981, different groups put up different candidates for the post of the 17th Karmapa.
The Dalai Lama-recognised Ogyen’s claim has been challenged by Trinley Thaye Dorje, a 28-year-old who like Ogyen, was born in Tibet and escaped to India.
Dawa Sangpo, the third challenger, was born in north Sikkim, making him the first India-born contender for the title.
The 34-year-old, who has a fan following in Sikkim, started a renewed campaign in the Indian state this year to claim the disputed title.
The Sikkim Karmapa Committee, formed to push his claim, is also demanding that the Rumtek monastery in Sikkimese capital Gangtok, which was barred to all Karmapa claimants after the ownership tussle, be opened to Dawa Sangpo.
‘I am ready to undergo examinations to prove my claim,’ Dawa Sangpo said in his Kathmandu press conference Monday.
‘I am ready to undergo scientific and traditional examinations as well as one for testing supernatural powers,’ he added.
He also said it was a mistake to recognise Ogyen as the 17th Karmapa. His followers are saying Ogyen’s image was tarnished by the controversy that erupted in India this year following the raids on his monastery and suspicions that he could be a Chinese spy as a large amount of the Chinese yuan currency was found during the raids.
Ogyen maintained the money was donated by devotees and the Indian authorities, after subsequent investigations, gave him a clean chit.
source: http://www.inewsone.com/2011/04/25/after-cash-karmapa-faces-new-controversy-in-contender/45796
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Video on Dawa Sangpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFfqo3Pgcc8&feature=related
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source: http://www.karmapa-issue.org/news/tashi.htm
AN OPEN LETTER: Reply to Tashi Wangdi's statement
Regarding the Karmapa issue
IIIIIIIII Date: 20.08.01
We refer to Mr Tashi Wangdi's (minister of religious and cultural affairs, exiled Tibetan government) statement in the Times of India on 14th of August, 2001. We respectfully disagree with his statement, which says that "there should be no controversy at all about the 17th Karmapa and head of the Kagyu sect, Urgyen Trinley Dorje."
We disagree with it because of the pretension the Tibetan exiled government can brush aside any contention or opposition created as a result of its machinations. We oppose it because it seeks to accuse both Thaye Dorje and Dawa Sangpo of duplicity and sham while offering no proof or explanation as would be prudent and appropriate in a pronouncement of this importance.
In consequence to statements such as this, a climate of suspicion and confusion has been created and perpetuated by the exiled government. On numerous occasions we are forced to make corrective statements to the exiled government's statements in order to clarify our positions, statements that are open to verification any time.
With regard to Dawa Sangpo, he is recognised and supported by the Sikkimese Sharpa community as the Karmapa. Although Mr. Wangdi equates Dawa Sangpo with Thaye Dorje, he obviously neglects to mention an important point of reference that would have made this equation invalid, namely: that Dawa Sangpo's
position is at variance with the tradition of the school to which this
particular community claims he belongs, i.e. to-date, he has not been recognised or accepted by either Shamar Rinpoche or Situ Rinpoche according to tradition.
If history means anything at all, Mr Wangdi has conveniently dispensed with it by taking the Karmapa's recognition completely out of context by limiting it to a mere question of the 'prediction letter'. But if tradition is any guide for human conduct, then it is worthwhile for Mr. Wangdi to note that, by Karma Kagyupa tradition, the Shamarpas have always been responsible for
the recognition or enthronement of the historical Karmapas: only when the Shamarpa is indisposed would Situ Rinpoche step in to fill the gap. Because of Mr Wangdi's statement and limited, albeit chosen perspective, it is appropriate to remind the reader that the history of Karma Kagyu tradition can be freely verified by anyone interested: all he or she needs to do is to refer to any of the major reference libraries in the USA, China, the Himalayan countries or India.
But, since Mr Wangdi has elected to narrow down the reincarnation issue to the 'prediction letter', at the expense of the Dalai Lama's perceived authority, one might add, it would be pertinent to recall the Tibetan exiled government's earlier insistence on the Dalai Lama's final word on the Karmapa issue. Is the complexity of reincarnation issues too much for Mr. Wangdi? His has been such a patchwork and arbitrary presentation of 'the relevant facts' that one is tempted to wonder if the minister is just incompetent in his job or he has another agenda. In any case taking a broader view of the complex
intertwining of Tibetan politics and religion might provide a better insight about the purpose and activities of the exiled government and, by implication, its bold disregard of public perception whenever it changes tack to suit its convenience.
One possible account is that: As the majority of Tibetan youths outside Tibet grows up in India and Himalayas, in a secular environment and goes to schools run by the exiled government, the traditional attachment to the identities respectively of the four religious schools is now replaced by a single national Tibetan identity represented almost exclusively by the Dalai Lama
and his exiled government, to the extent that the time-honoured distinctions of the Four Schools are no longer relevant in their lives.
The other possible account is: As idealistic and western disciples and followers of the Dalai Lama have now fatefully wedded their utopia to adistant Tibet and Tibetans dispossessed of their country, the majority of westerners would gladly identify the ideal of compassion and enlightenment in Tibetan Buddhism with Tibetan freedom and the Tibetans' 'natural' goodness. And since the Dalai Lama would have been an important head of state as well as a 'sacred' Buddhist monk (if Tibet were independent), westerners would also tend to regard the Dalai Lama implicitly, like Popes used to be, as supreme, infallible and perfect.
This then explains the boldness of the exiled government's ability and success to always put itself beyond the reach of critical examination. It is unfortunate that this should be allowed to happen at all, especially in face of the fact that the US Library of Congress had spent millions of dollars in past decades to gather and purchase extensive collections of Tibetan texts, both religious and secular, from India and Tibet, and deposited them in libraries across the country: Yet today, these ancient documents are just so
much 'waste paper', because when it is time to study these records for better understanding of current Tibetan problems, few if any have taken the trouble to do it.
Lastly we are obliged to correct Mr. Wangdi's statement which, apparently, refers to our "allegations that the Dalai Lama was supporting Urgyen Trinley Dorje" was " 'due to financial reason' ", etc. We never said that the Dalai Lama's support of Urgyen Trinley was due to financial reasons. But we did say that it was for political reasons that the Dalai Lama supported Urgyen Trinley as the Karmapa incarnation, and that it was completely out of character with our Karma Kagyu tradition.
Nonetheless, now that Mr. Wangdi, as minister of religion and cultural affairs, has changed tack again by saying that "a Karmapa is always chosen by the previous Karmapa, and according to a letter written by the 16th Karmapa¦.",etc., we will perhaps agree with him. To give him the benefit of the doubt, his statement appears to be in agreement with our tradition. Adherence to tradition is what we have repeatedly demanded in the past, namely:
1) if there is no letter of prediction, then the principal leader or leaders of the Karma Kagyu school will recognise or approve, as the case may be, the new Karmapa;
2) if, however, there is a letter of prediction, then the new incarnation should be recognised in accordance with the letter's instructions.
If the letter of prediction produced by Situ Rinpoche in 1992 is proven to be genuine, we would follow it without question to the end, and no doubt the Karmapa controversy would then be resolved peacefully. In any case we should be most appreciative if the exiled government would refrain from interfering further with our Karma Kagyu School. We should be most appreciative if the exiled government would respect our rights to our own affairs, and not to change the direction or the tone of dialogue again.
International Karma Kagyu Organisation
15 August, 2001
Karma Wangshuk
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After cash, Karmapa faces new controversy in contender
Kathmandu, April 25 (IANS) The Karmapa, the head of one of the four sects of Tibetan Buddhists, who has just survived a controversy over large amounts of foreign and Indian currency found in his monastery in India’s Himachal Pradesh, now faces a third contender to the spiritual title.
Sikkim-born Dawa Sangpo Dorje is the third contender for the spiritual title, and at a press conference in Kathmandu Monday asserted that Ogyen Trinley Dorje was not the rightful reincarnation of the Karmapa, Tibetan spiritual leader Dusum Khyenpa who died in 1193 AD. Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the monk recognised by the Tibetan government in exile in India and the Dalai Lama.
Since Dusum Khyenpa’s death, the Karma Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhists believes he was born 16 times more, in keeping with the Tibetan tradition of reincarnation of spiritual leaders with supernatural powers.
However, after the death of the 16th Karmapa – Rangjung Rigoe Dorje – in 1981, different groups put up different candidates for the post of the 17th Karmapa.
The Dalai Lama-recognised Ogyen’s claim has been challenged by Trinley Thaye Dorje, a 28-year-old who like Ogyen, was born in Tibet and escaped to India.
Dawa Sangpo, the third challenger, was born in north Sikkim, making him the first India-born contender for the title.
The 34-year-old, who has a fan following in Sikkim, started a renewed campaign in the Indian state this year to claim the disputed title.
The Sikkim Karmapa Committee, formed to push his claim, is also demanding that the Rumtek monastery in Sikkimese capital Gangtok, which was barred to all Karmapa claimants after the ownership tussle, be opened to Dawa Sangpo.
‘I am ready to undergo examinations to prove my claim,’ Dawa Sangpo said in his Kathmandu press conference Monday.
‘I am ready to undergo scientific and traditional examinations as well as one for testing supernatural powers,’ he added.
He also said it was a mistake to recognise Ogyen as the 17th Karmapa. His followers are saying Ogyen’s image was tarnished by the controversy that erupted in India this year following the raids on his monastery and suspicions that he could be a Chinese spy as a large amount of the Chinese yuan currency was found during the raids.
Ogyen maintained the money was donated by devotees and the Indian authorities, after subsequent investigations, gave him a clean chit.
http://www.inewsone.com/2011/04/25/after-cash-karmapa-faces-new-controversy-in-contender/45796
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Looks like Dharamsala's Tibetan Govt are losing more and more authority. More are standing up to Dharamsala's decisions even on the most sacred institutions.
When you have a good soup, you should be content, don't add more water in the soup to the point of losing taste. This is what is happening with Tibetan Govt in exile. Losing more of the little bit of prestige they had.
More and more are standing up to challenge the Tibetan Govt. For years the Tibetan Govt allows no dialogue, appeals or discussions on any of their so called democratic decisions. Whether Dawa Sangpo is the real Karmapa or not, no one will know. The interesting trend arising is challenge Tibetan Govt. They are not infallible.
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So much intrigue, confusion, and problems within the Karma Kagyu with three persons claiming to be Karmapa. Each candidate has a convincing story.
Since so many people have interfered with the recognition of the current Karmapa, to make it final, they should consult Shugden on which one is the mind or main incarnation. Shugden will have the full clairvoyance to see and decide once and for all. He can rise above human intrigue when in full trance.
Wouldn't that be an interesting prospect? The karma Kagyus consult Shugden for the correct incarnation of Karmapa. Why not? Then that is really a Rimey approach. You want Rimey, it should be both ways.
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Which Dharma protector do the Kagyus propitiate anyway? Would they even consider propitiating a Gelugpa protector? eg i hear that even within the Gelugpa school, different monasteries have different protectors and they would only propitiate the protector from their own monasteries. is this true?
If so, it looks unlikely that the Karma Kagyus will consult Shugden, unless there are any Karma Kagyu people who are particularly open-minded.
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Breaking news: Letter from the Karmapa, Trinley Thaye Dorje, to the Dalai Lama.
http://karmapa.org/news/letters/letter_dalai_lama_english_resized.pdf (http://karmapa.org/news/letters/letter_dalai_lama_english_resized.pdf)
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Breaking news: Letter from the Karmapa, Trinley Thaye Dorje, to the Dalai Lama.
[url]http://karmapa.org/news/letters/letter_dalai_lama_english_resized.pdf[/url] ([url]http://karmapa.org/news/letters/letter_dalai_lama_english_resized.pdf[/url])
This is an eye-opener, another problem Dharamsala has created because they are not doing their job well. They should not interfere with the Karmapa issue, Dorje Shugden practice, etc. It is good that the Karmapa Thaye Dorje's camp explains what happened.The Karma Kagyu has suffered great setbacks and tremendous loss of face due to this issue. It is sad because it was created by the Tibetan government. The Tibetan government should withdraw their backing of any Karmapa and apologize to the Karma Kagyu Sect for their interference and let the Karma Kagyu settle it among themselves. Similarly, the Tibetan government should withdraw all their negative statements and ban on Dorje Shugden and apologize to the Gelug Sect.
Create peace, harmony and unity among Dharma practitioners would be a good legacy for Tibetan govt to leave behind as their days are nearing an end.
Mana
(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/karmapa2011.gif)
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This may be a silly question, but I really am curious....
Who is in possesion of the Black Hat? I have seen pictures of both Kramapas wearing the Black Hat....
Anyone know?
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At the rate they are wearing the Black Hats, it seems that they are making their own Black Hats to wear. However, if we are talking about THE BLACK HAT worn by the previous Karmapa, i.e. the 16th Karmapa, then it is an interesting question as to who has it now.
By the way, I just saw a video of the other Karmapa - Trinlay Thaye Dorje, he speaks very well and clearly. I do like the way he presented how Buddhism is much more than a way of life.
We live in such interesting times where there is so much controversy.
Who is right and who is wrong? Who is the real Karmapa or are they all real?
:)
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The sun of Dharma must not be dimmed or obstructed by clouds of politics, corruption and intrigue. There is such a tangle of intrigue, politics and corruption surrounding the ‘battle’ over recognition of the rightful Karmapa. Furthermore, the recent raid on the currently recognized Karmapa (that exposed a hoard of money and wealth being stashed away) greatly tarnishes the image of this supposed leader of the Kagyu Lineage. His credibility as a spiritual leader is questionable. So how can he be even considered as a likely successor of the Dalai Lama?
And now there is the question of ‘the Black Hat’. Who has the authentic Black Hat? But does this really matter, as the struggle for recognition of the rightful Karmapa seems to be looking more and more ludicrous.
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And now there is the question of ‘the Black Hat’. Who has the authentic Black Hat? But does this really matter, as the struggle for recognition of the rightful Karmapa seems to be looking more and more ludicrous.
I'm curious as to where is the Black Hat! I am sure it matters to the kagyupas who should have the rightful Seat at Rumtek thus, it should be a matter for the kagyupas to resolve. why should the Dalai Lama gets involved with the kagyupas? Why should the Dalai Lama gets involved with shugdenpa?
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A few interesting questions from this article:
1. the Karmapa has been groomed to take over the Dalai Lama's role since 2000?
2. The Gelugpas political ascendency over the Kagyupas in the 17th century - was there a bloodbath??
3. In 2008 the Dalai Lama was filmed telling the Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche, another young senior lama, that they would inherit his responsibilities when he died. "You will be the ones to continue my work," he said. - anyone seen this video?
It's interesting that this article concurs that the financial scandal did affect the Karmapa's succession to the Dalai Lama. It just goes to show how insidious an accusation is - regardless of how innocent one is, as soon as an accusation is levelled, no matter that it was a false one, mud sticks. Doesn't this whole episode show that it is all the more important that we do not criticise each other, especially without basis, and create any kind of schism.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/may/26/karmapa-dalai-lama
No role for the Karmapa
Thursday 26 May 2011
The Dalai Lama has acted shrewdly in giving up his political position and removing the need for a regency
More than 400 delegates from 20 countries met this week in the Indian Himalayas to implement changes that will have a profound effect on the worldwide Tibetan diaspora. If ratified by the parliament-in-exile, the withdrawal of five clauses in the Tibetan constitution will abolish the Council of Regency that has been in place for 370 years.
Recently, the Dalai Lama announced that he was giving up his political position and would in future concentrate on his spiritual and humanitarian responsibilities. This decision prompted the meeting in India – which aims to complete the transition from theocratic rule to democracy. With the Dalai Lama no longer a temporal leader, the need for a regency is eliminated.
It also means that the 26-year-old 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje, will not now be become a regent – despite the fact that he has been groomed for this role since his dramatic escape from Tibet in 2000. Ogyen Trinley was confirmed as the 17th Karmapa by both the Chinese authorities and the Dalai Lama. On his arrival in India he went straight to the Dalai Lama's headquarters and has been living close by ever since. In 2008 the Dalai Lama was filmed telling the Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche, another young senior lama, that they would inherit his responsibilities when he died. "You will be the ones to continue my work," he said.
It now seems that this work will be confined to spiritual matters connected with the stewardship of Tibetan Buddhism, which has attracted tens of thousands of converts around the world during the past 30 years. According to Arnaud Dotezac – a visiting professor at Geneva University – the abolition of the regency takes the sting out of a controversial issue. The Karmapa is the head of the Kagyupas – a sect of Tibetan Buddhism that was in power until violently suppressed in the 17th century and replaced by the Gelugpa Dalai Lamas.
"It was a bloodbath," Dotezac says. "Thousands of people were killed, Kagyu monasteries were forced to convert into Gelugpas and the idea of Kagyus being friends with Gelugs was unthinkable."
Dotezac also believes that a financial scandal that erupted in the Karmapa's monastery in January tarnished his reputation to a degree that he was no longer seen as acceptable as a regent.
"Everything changed after that," he says. "The process of decoupling religion from politics accelerated. I think by renouncing his political role the Dalai Lama is preparing the ground for his return to Tibet. He has stated his wish to go back and to die there."
In pre-Chinese Tibet, regents took control after the death of a Dalai Lama and ostensibly for an interim period during the childhood of his reincarnation. In reality, regents were immensely powerful at all times and several young Dalai Lamas died in suspicious circumstances. The present (14th) Dalai Lama may have escaped the possibility of this fate because he was forced into exile in 1959.
Establishing Ogyen Trinley Dorje as a purely spiritual leader sidelines the political ramifications of more than one controversial issue that has emerged since he was recognised as the 17th Karmapa in 1992.
Two years later Trinley Thaye Dorje escaped from Tibet with his family and was formally enthroned as the 17th Karmapa, after being recognised by the senior Kagyu lama Shamar Rinpoche. This means that there are two Karmapas. Some senior lamas accept this status quo, other factions insist that their Karmapa is the only genuine one.
There are also persistent claims that Ogyen Trinley is a Chinese plant and that his escape could not have happened without agreement from the Chinese authorities in Tibet.
"This is a conspiracy theory" says Robbie Barnett, director of modern tibetan studies at Columbia University. "There is no credible explanation for the suggestion that it was in China's interests for the Karmapa to escape. Everything points in the opposite direction – it was a huge diplomatic blow and a big humiliation for the Chinese to see their Karmapa flee to India."
Robbie Barnett points out that Ogyen Trinley could have escaped without help from Chinese officials. "At that time," he says, "thousands of Tibetans were escaping to Nepal every year without being caught. In addition, Ogyen Trinley had resources and a support team to help him. They took a remote route not often used by refugees escaping on foot and his driver knew where he should get out of the car and walk to avoid check points."
To most of us born and brought up in western democracies Tibetan politics seem like a hangover from the Dark Ages. But now the Dalai Lama is launching his people into the 21st century, moving towards a future Dalai Lama being approved by an elected government, headed by an elected prime minister. He has neutralised controversies and in giving up his political status he has demonstrated a high level of political skill.
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I wonder how the 3rd Karmapa claimant to the name will affect anything or everything.
Both young current Karmapas have to face so much politics and doubt. With the 3rd claimant, it must be harrowing to say the least for the existing two camps. I am sure the real Karmapa has no attachments to name and status, but with name and status he can do more to benefit.
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Now there are 3 Karmapas. Two already existed and a 3rd one has emerged as a claimant of being a Karmapa. The 3rd Karmapa still wants to put a claim to being the 3rd Karmapa. Maybe this 3rd Karmapa may want to be there to solve the problem of the politics and accusation directed at the Karmapas that was suspected. It may be he want to find out who plant the funds in the Karmapa's residence without the Karmapas knowledge. The 3rd Karmapa claimant may have been an undercover under the direction of the police to investigate the illegal funds that was alleged and planted in the residence of the Karmapa.
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Yes, I agree. How can they accuse Shugdenpas for so many years without karma coming back to them? Anyway, this is sad. Can Buddhism totally be free from politics?
Buddhism, any other religion or anything done by humans cannot be free from politics. Simply because humans have politics. Even birds have a pecking order (bird politics of a sort). So what we need to do is to extract the Dharma from the politics. We need to just focus on the Dharma.
None of us are perfect, we all get sucked into politics from time to time, so no one is better than another, but the important thing is to just watch our own minds. After all, at death, it's not the politics that matter, but the Dharma we did.
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I had thought the Karmapa and the foreign currency issue had been resolved but obviously not.
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/uncategorized/foreign-currency-case-police-names-karmapa-in-chargesheet_100582303.html (http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/uncategorized/foreign-currency-case-police-names-karmapa-in-chargesheet_100582303.html)
Foreign currency case: Police names Karmapa in chargesheet
Wed Dec 07 2011 22:25:33 GMT+0800 (MYT) by IANS
Shimla, Dec 7 (IANS) Tibetan religious head and the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje’s name was Wednesday included in a chargesheet filed by the police in a Himachal Pradesh court on the seizure of foreign currency worth Rs.70 million (over $1 million) from a monastery in January.
The Karmapa has been charged under penal provisions related to conspiracy. He is the 10th accused named in the chargesheet, filed before Una Chief Judicial Magistrate Rajesh Tomar.
Superintendent of Police Sumedha Diwedi told IANS that the court would now decide whether charges could be framed against the Karmapa.
“We are awaiting sanction from the central government for prosecuting the accused under the Foreign Contribution (Regulation) Act (FCRA),” she said, adding the offences under the law would be added in the charge sheet later.
The Karmapa is the spiritual head of the Karma Kagyu school, one of the four sects of Buddhism. He is considered the third most important Tibetan religious head after the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama.
Police Jan 28 recovered currencies of 26 countries, including 120,197 Chinese yuan and around Rs.5.3 million in Indian currency, from the Karmapa’s Gyuto Tantric University and Monastery on the outskirts of Dharamsala, the seat of the Tibetan government-in-exile.
It was after the seizure of Rs.1 crore meant for land purchase that police conducted searches at the monastery and recovered the currency.
Subsequently, seven people were arrested. Among them was the Karmapa’s aide Rubgi Chosang, also known as Shakti Lama. All seven are out of jail now on bail.
The Karmapa’s office told investigating agencies that the money was collection of donations from the spiritual head’s followers.
Fast-track court Judge R.K. Sharma in Una directed police in September to hand over the seized currency of Rs.70 million to the central government’s enforcement directorate (ED).
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I'm curious as to where is the Black Hat! I am sure it matters to the kagyupas who should have the rightful Seat at Rumtek thus, it should be a matter for the kagyupas to resolve. why should the Dalai Lama gets involved with the kagyupas? Why should the Dalai Lama gets involved with shugdenpa?
With regards to the black hat, according to the book Buddha's not Smiling, the black hat is supposed to be in Rumtek, the traditional seat of the Karmapas, which also means that it also stores a lot of offerings and treasures from all the previous karmapas, like what the norbulingka is to the Dalai Lama. It seems that Tai Situpa manifested political games to take over rumtek and enthroned his version of the karmapa to gain access to the black hat which was created by the 3rd ming emperor to the karmapa. Personally, and really, personally, IT IS JUST A SYMBOLIC HAT!! why so much fuss over a fabric hat? It is far more important for the Karmapa to lead the kagyus (and perhaps CTA) than a hat or riches.