dorjeshugden.com
General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: Big Uncle on December 04, 2010, 09:02:14 PM
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I know the Buddha cannot change or affect our karma so how does a Dharma Protector like Dorje Shugden help us in a time of need? When we are in the deepest sinkhole, how does Dorje Shugden come to our assistance?
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How?
Maybe not in the way we expect, and most likely not in the way we expect if our expectations are short-sighted.
When I look back at my life, and even beyond the point in time when I started recognizing spirituality in it, I see the pattern of the Dharma Protector.
This "pattern", however, is not always recognizable in the moment and we may be experiencing something rather "un-pleasant" at first but beneficial to our spiritual practice at a later stage or even much further later stage.
So I ask myself, how can I be sure that what I am going through is going to help me later? The answer is very simple: FAITH.
And the testing times are the gage of our faith.
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I know the Buddha cannot change or affect our karma so how does a Dharma Protector like Dorje Shugden help us in a time of need? When we are in the deepest sinkhole, how does Dorje Shugden come to our assistance?
On the contray they can effect our karma, well its just like dragging someone out of the mud really one cannot pull another on their own if they are unwilling and in this case when the causes and conditions come together our karma will change, There have been times I have relied upon the 3 jewels and our Dharmapala when in great danger or great need and have received care and protection like that provided by a Mother and father to their children.
The great thing that brings tears to my eyes is they are around whenever needed, the enlightened body/mind arrives at the speed of thought, If the karma has not ripened with blessing they can create the causes within our own mental continuum to temporarily nulify its arising...Buddha said he could not take away our suffering like a splinter from flesh but being the skilled doctor he is he would give us the medicine that would temporarily take away our pain, The splinter is for us to pull.
Our connection with the Dharmapala is very strong now many millions of people know of this once obscure Dharmapala. Their function is to protect our practise and provide us with good causes and conditions so that we may accomplish the end goal, Surely the arising of such a being with such a motivation indicates the very nature and is a sign of the immense power. Our skilled Geshe's have relied upon our Dharmapala and what more do we need to say about Shri Dorje shugdens effectiveness at protecting and spreading Je Tsongkhapas tradition when we have living examples and accounts of his power. The pain of that splinter becomes weaker and weaker dear friend with sincere reliance the situations will definitly come to us that we may finally once and for all take the tools and remove it.
It is my suspcion that even if one where to rely upon the Dharmapala alone he would create the causes for one to find, enter and accomplish the path.
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Thank you Hope & Zach.
I have always wondered about this and so I am asking it here since there is a platform for this. I personally think Dharma Protectors can't change our karma but they can be a powerful environmental cause for it to change. It is because Dorje Shugden is in a worldly form with an enlightened mind, his powers to affect us is much greater than all the other Dharma Protectors.
What I really think is that during dire situations when we are in danger, he comes to our aid real fast by delaying the ripening of our karma or he diverts the full force of the karma. Ultimately, we have to face our own karma but with Dorje Shugden, there is a huge difference. If we are really devoted to him, we can even purify our karma before it ripens upon us fully. That is all my own little logic i had developed about how Dharma Protectors really assists us.
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I know the Buddha cannot change or affect our karma so how does a Dharma Protector like Dorje Shugden help us in a time of need? When we are in the deepest sinkhole, how does Dorje Shugden come to our assistance?
The main function of an enlightened Dharma protector is to arrange the most conducive conditions for the success of our Dharma practice. Of course, an enlightened Dharma Protector can come to our aid in times of need or when we are in desperate situations but I think that is only to help us solve our immediate problems so that we are able to continue with our spiritual journey.
It is true that even an enlightened being cannot change our karma but what I believe they can do is to create necessary conditions for our mind transformation. In this way, we can purify our past negative karma, gain realizations and do not further perpetuate our negativities. However, something to take note here is that the conditions an enlightened protector arranges for us is what we need, which may not necessarily be what we are comfortable with.
For eg, sometimes after beginning to propitiate an enlightened Dharma protector, we encounter many obstacles. Nobody likes obstacles in their lives. However, if we see it at a deeper level, perhaps, these obstacles are necessary for us to gain certain realizations like impermanence and the inevitability of sufferings in samsara which will propel us to have the wish to gain some sort of liberation from samsara to begin with and from there our practice can progress.
Therefore, it is important that we understand who our Dharma protector is, what his functions are and have complete faith in him. Otherwise, we will have a high likelihood of abandoning his practice when we encounter obstacles because we do not understand what his practice entails.
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Perhaps many had discussed this already but i would like to know. Because I found this protector Dorje Shugden through the net, over the controversial issue that led me to this site. And I strongly believe the protector is more than what we see and thought. Therefore I would like to know, is it possible to practice the protector's practice with a guru? or even a guru's initiation? Because the ban is still on, many can not even talk let alone to practice. Therefore, I can't run around looking and talking about Shuden practice...
On the contrary, here we are in this beautiful site, providing such powerful updates with materials so easily access to all of us around the world. May Dorje Shugden grows and benefit many many more people.
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The main function of an enlightened Dharma protector is to arrange the most conducive conditions for the success of our Dharma practice. Of course, an enlightened Dharma Protector can come to our aid in times of need or when we are in desperate situations but I think that is only to help us solve our immediate problems so that we are able to continue with our spiritual journey.
It is true that even an enlightened being cannot change our karma but what I believe they can do is to create necessary conditions for our mind transformation. In this way, we can purify our past negative karma, gain realizations and do not further perpetuate our negativities. However, something to take note here is that the conditions an enlightened protector arranges for us is what we need, which may not necessarily be what we are comfortable with.
For eg, sometimes after beginning to propitiate an enlightened Dharma protector, we encounter many obstacles. Nobody likes obstacles in their lives. However, if we see it at a deeper level, perhaps, these obstacles are necessary for us to gain certain realizations like impermanence and the inevitability of sufferings in samsara which will propel us to have the wish to gain some sort of liberation from samsara to begin with and from there our practice can progress.
Therefore, it is important that we understand who our Dharma protector is, what his functions are and have complete faith in him. Otherwise, we will have a high likelihood of abandoning his practice when we encounter obstacles because we do not understand what his practice entails.
I have often wondered this very question since literally stumbling onto Dharma. What feels like a chance encounter probably is anything but as I have come to learn from my relatively short journey of discovery. The above post by WoselTenzin makes it a lot clearer as to how an enlightened Dharma protector assists us. Often it is not how we perceive such help should be as we are after all the creators of our problems in the first place and have no clue what is really going to help us or we would not be in that predicament to begin with. It is all very logical.
I recall first starting my spiritual journey and 'finding' our Dharma Protector thinking "great everything is going to be smooth from hereon!" Boy was i in for a rude awakening... in a good way though as I soon come to terms with my attachments and the like. What is interesting to note is given what I know now and putting myself back to where I was with a similar situation, I would be devastated... but standing where I am now there seems to be a strange calmness but also a sense of wanting to know what is next... almost fit like! Strange how these two seemingly opposing energies can coexist... nice kind of weird! :)
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The main function of an enlightened Dharma protector is to arrange the most conducive conditions for the success of our Dharma practice. Of course, an enlightened Dharma Protector can come to our aid in times of need or when we are in desperate situations but I think that is only to help us solve our immediate problems so that we are able to continue with our spiritual journey.
It is true that even an enlightened being cannot change our karma but what I believe they can do is to create necessary conditions for our mind transformation. In this way, we can purify our past negative karma, gain realizations and do not further perpetuate our negativities. However, something to take note here is that the conditions an enlightened protector arranges for us is what we need, which may not necessarily be what we are comfortable with.
For eg, sometimes after beginning to propitiate an enlightened Dharma protector, we encounter many obstacles. Nobody likes obstacles in their lives. However, if we see it at a deeper level, perhaps, these obstacles are necessary for us to gain certain realizations like impermanence and the inevitability of sufferings in samsara which will propel us to have the wish to gain some sort of liberation from samsara to begin with and from there our practice can progress.
Therefore, it is important that we understand who our Dharma protector is, what his functions are and have complete faith in him. Otherwise, we will have a high likelihood of abandoning his practice when we encounter obstacles because we do not understand what his practice entails.
I have often wondered this very question since literally stumbling onto Dharma. What feels like a chance encounter probably is anything but as I have come to learn from my relatively short journey of discovery. The above post by WoselTenzin makes it a lot clearer as to how an enlightened Dharma protector assists us. Often it is not how we perceive such help should be as we are after all the creators of our problems in the first place and have no clue what is really going to help us or we would not be in that predicament to begin with. It is all very logical.
I recall first starting my spiritual journey and 'finding' our Dharma Protector thinking "great everything is going to be smooth from hereon!" Boy was i in for a rude awakening... in a good way though as I soon come to terms with my attachments and the like. What is interesting to note is given what I know now and putting myself back to where I was with a similar situation, I would be devastated... but standing where I am now there seems to be a strange calmness but also a sense of wanting to know what is next... almost fit like! Strange how these two seemingly opposing energies can coexist... nice kind of weird! :)
My two opposing energies are that on one hand, I fully trust that Dorje Shugden will do everything in my best interests for my spiritual journey, and on the other hand is when obstacles arise out of my prediction. Like what Positive Change has mentioned, these two opposing energies are co-existing....somehome in an equalibrium....and I am more intuned to both energies and without fighting to anyone of them.
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What I really think is that during dire situations when we are in danger, he comes to our aid real fast by delaying the ripening of our karma or he diverts the full force of the karma. Ultimately, we have to face our own karma but with Dorje Shugden, there is a huge difference. If we are really devoted to him, we can even purify our karma before it ripens upon us fully. That is all my own little logic i had developed about how Dharma Protectors really assists us.
This is probably exactly why Dorje Shugden is so extremely effective during this degenerate time and how fortunate it is for us to come to know, hear and do his practice! I myself can attest to the change/diversion of my karma which I can imagine would be an experience that is far more worst. You still experience your negative karma, the pain, but protector helps in a sense where the effects of it is not as great. Like instead of me dying in a car accident, I just totally crashed my car but came out of it unscratched. The fear, the pain, the trauma is still being experienced, but the end result is you are still ok, you still have a second chance in life. This you can often experience after a "retreat" you have done. Lama use to say it is very good! Because protector helped you to manifest you negative karma now, instead of you having to experience it later in full force, so you should rejoice! So to return the kindness of our Lama and protector, we should do more Dharma and engage in Dharma practice more seriously. That is why protector save us and gave us that second chance to collect more merits.
Even for protector to be able to help us pull through any bad situation, we also need merits to support him helping us. So the answer is also to do more Dharma and collect your merit points :) This goes to show that our protector is not just there in time of urgent need, he is there to see us through our long term goal....Enlightenment!
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Perhaps many had discussed this already but i would like to know. Because I found this protector Dorje Shugden through the net, over the controversial issue that led me to this site. And I strongly believe the protector is more than what we see and thought. Therefore I would like to know, is it possible to practice the protector's practice with a guru? or even a guru's initiation? Because the ban is still on, many can not even talk let alone to practice. Therefore, I can't run around looking and talking about Shuden practice...
Hi Barzin, I'm not quite sure what exactly is your question...you mean is it possible to seek out a Guru that does Dorje Shugden or ask a Guru for Dorje Shugden's initiation? If that is your question then the answer is yes of course it is possible to practice with a Guru who does Dorje Shugden... there are so many who does it very openly, check out this page http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=37 and there is Shar Gaden too :) As for initiation of Dorje Shugden, I think once you have found your Guru and taken refuge, I believe you can request your Guru for DS practice. Whether or not your Guru thinks you are qualified and ready is up to your Guru. Don't expect a Yes from your Guru just cause you requested. Question is...have you found a Guru yet or are you still searching?
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What I really think is that during dire situations when we are in danger, he comes to our aid real fast by delaying the ripening of our karma or he diverts the full force of the karma. Ultimately, we have to face our own karma but with Dorje Shugden, there is a huge difference. If we are really devoted to him, we can even purify our karma before it ripens upon us fully. That is all my own little logic i had developed about how Dharma Protectors really assists us.
Big Uncle, I have also heard that Dorje Shugden brings forward the ripening of our karmas, so that we will experience them faster before they multiply even worse. By hastening the ripening of our karma while we are in a state to practice Dharma, it would also mean that we can go through the negative situation with Dharma knowledge so that we do not create even more negative karma by our thoughts and actions. Thus we properly purify our negative karma, without the accumulation of further negative karma. Does this make sense?
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How Does A Dharma Protector Assist?
I think a Dharma Protector assists us by removing some of our self-created obstacles. If we had done the purifying practice and collect merit, some bigger obstacles may also be removed. A Dharma Protector also provides us with the basic necessities and sustenance so we can continue with our spiritual practice.
Ever since I started to propitiate Dorje Shugden, my life has since turned for the better. My mind is clearer and stays focused, I think twice before doing any negative actions, I put in more effort in my work and spiritual practice, etc.
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Yes it is true that the Dharma Protector cannot change our karma. In my opinion, I think He will assist us to experience a lesser impact when our negative karma arises. However, we must have faith and trust in Dorje Shugden and have enough merits for Him to help us, thus it so important that we put in more effort in dharma practices. By transforming ourselves and engaging in dharma practices with the right motivation and intent will create the cause for Dorje Shugden to help and guide us.
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I know the Buddha cannot change or affect our karma so how does a Dharma Protector like Dorje Shugden help us in a time of need?
Dear WoselTenzin, I agree with what you wrote. However, the word 'conducive' is often misinterpreted as 'everything good and easy and as how we expect it to be'. An enlightened Dharma Protector works depending on one's merit. As emanation of a Buddha/Boddhisattva, their main function is to avert inner and outer obstacles that prevent practitioners from achieving spiritual realizations and to arrange all the necessary conditions for one's practice. Some people may need to loose some material things in order for them to take their spiritual practice seriously; some may require that their secular lives is fine in order for them to be spiritual; with some they need to experience a big loss in order to do dharma practice. So an enlightened Dharma Protector uses his wisdom and clairvoyance to make all those conditions for one to do dharma practice. And to me, that is the biggest and best protection of all; so that it protects us from falling into the three lower realms.
When we are in the deepest sinkhole, how does Dorje Shugden come to our assistance?
The main function of an enlightened Dharma protector is to arrange the most conducive conditions for the success of our Dharma practice. Of course, an enlightened Dharma Protector can come to our aid in times of need or when we are in desperate situations but I think that is only to help us solve our immediate problems so that we are able to continue with our spiritual journey.
It is true that even an enlightened being cannot change our karma but what I believe they can do is to create necessary conditions for our mind transformation. In this way, we can purify our past negative karma, gain realizations and do not further perpetuate our negativities. However, something to take note here is that the conditions an enlightened protector arranges for us is what we need, which may not necessarily be what we are comfortable with.
For eg, sometimes after beginning to propitiate an enlightened Dharma protector, we encounter many obstacles. Nobody likes obstacles in their lives. However, if we see it at a deeper level, perhaps, these obstacles are necessary for us to gain certain realizations like impermanence and the inevitability of sufferings in samsara which will propel us to have the wish to gain some sort of liberation from samsara to begin with and from there our practice can progress.
Therefore, it is important that we understand who our Dharma protector is, what his functions are and have complete faith in him. Otherwise, we will have a high likelihood of abandoning his practice when we encounter obstacles because we do not understand what his practice entails.
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I know the Buddha cannot change or affect our karma so how does a Dharma Protector like Dorje Shugden help us in a time of need? When we are in the deepest sinkhole, how does Dorje Shugden come to our assistance?
Oh Yes, Buddha can never change or affect our karma. Good or bad karma is all in our hands! We create them ourselves. Dharma protector assists us by clearing obstacles to create the necessary conditions and necessities so that we can be on our spiritual path to practise. In addition, for Dharma protector to continue to assist us we have faith and trust in him by transforming and putting sincere and fervent effort in our dharma practices.
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Dharma protector assists us by clearing obstacles to create the necessary conditions and necessities so that we can be on our spiritual path to practise. In addition, for Dharma protector to continue to assist us we have faith and trust in him by transforming and putting sincere and fervent effort in our dharma practices.
Below was what Gomo Tulku (yes, the recording artist Tulku, but this was spoken by his previous incarnation) said, which I think is very relevant to asking for assistance from Dharma protectors with reference to Dharma practice and mind training.
In the past, holy beings made offerings to their Dharma protectors so as to receive help from them in their Dharma practice. Likewise, we must entrust the Dharma protectors to help us train in the mind of enlightenment by offerings tormas and making other offerings. While making such offerings, we should request their aid, saying, “Dharma protectors, help me to be able to transform all adverse conditions into the path to enlightenment, and bestow on me perfect conditions for my practice.”
However, Gomo Tulku also mentioned that some people also perform rituals and recite prayers to avoid experiencing problems, which he thought is an ‘illness’. This is because when we are practicing mind training, we should voluntarily take upon ourselves any suffering that occurs. We should think like this instead: “In the past while practicing ‘taking and giving’, I made prayers to be able to take other beings’ sufferings upon myself and give my happiness to them. Now I am experiencing that very suffering.”
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Dear Big Uncle,
Your question is so basic, but I guess it is necessary because everyone needs to know the role dharma protectors play in our spiritual path - only with this knowledge and clear view, that we could benefit from praying to the protectors.
Actually the role of protectors can be found right in the centre part of this Homepage:
Protector:
Also known as Dharmapalas, are special beings that emanate to protect the authentic Dharma.
They do this by clearing obstacles and providing conducive conditions for Buddhist traditions to propagate and grow.
Some Dharmapalas are Buddhas and bodhisattvas appearing in worldly form, whilst others are spirits who have been subdued by compassionate lamas, and bound by vows to assist practitioners.
As emanations of Manjushri, protectors like Kalarupa and Dorje Shugden belong to the first class of Dharmapalas who are enlightened beings appearing in the guise of worldly protectors. Thus to invoke their blessings, is to invoke the assistance and blessings of an enlightened being.
Hence when we request for assistance, the motivation MUST be pure. For example if we request for wealth - the motivation should be to have our basic needs fulflled AND be able to support the work of spreading dharma and helping others. Only then our wish for wealth will be granted. And if we wanted wealth for our own enjoyment, it would not be fulfilled.
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Thank you Hope & Zach.
I have always wondered about this and so I am asking it here since there is a platform for this. I personally think Dharma Protectors can't change our karma but they can be a powerful environmental cause for it to change. It is because Dorje Shugden is in a worldly form with an enlightened mind, his powers to affect us is much greater than all the other Dharma Protectors.
What I really think is that during dire situations when we are in danger, he comes to our aid real fast by delaying the ripening of our karma or he diverts the full force of the karma. Ultimately, we have to face our own karma but with Dorje Shugden, there is a huge difference. If we are really devoted to him, we can even purify our karma before it ripens upon us fully. That is all my own little logic i had developed about how Dharma Protectors really assists us.
Wow this is breathtaking, thank you for sharing this. Yes, by just relying on Dorje Shugden and be devoted to Him alone we will be able to purify our negative karma that is ripening on us, fully. When we needed help, we should always seek help sincerely and be rest assured, Dorje Shugden will always come to help us if this is for the betterment of us and not the other way round. And foremost, the motivation must be pure of course.
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In the past, holy beings made offerings to their Dharma protectors so as to receive help from them in their Dharma practice. Likewise, we must entrust the Dharma protectors to help us train in the mind of enlightenment by offerings tormas and making other offerings. While making such offerings, we should request their aid, saying, “Dharma protectors, help me to be able to transform all adverse conditions into the path to enlightenment, and bestow on me perfect conditions for my practice.”
This is what I felt that we should pray to the Dharma protector for. That is what I pray to my Dharma protector so that I may be able to be a sincere practitioner with results that my Guru can see and also to help me strengthen my Guru devotion, to help me hold my vows. Basically, everything Buddhist, and also at the same time may my samsaric problems not distract me from my Dharma works and may they not take time away from my Dharma practice. That is what I do pray for although when i was less matured i did wish for things like a partner to support me financially and emotionally when i needed it but i changed that since as i realize it is not worth it to have one as it will take away more time from the Dharma.
However, Gomo Tulku also mentioned that some people also perform rituals and recite prayers to avoid experiencing problems, which he thought is an ‘illness’. This is because when we are practicing mind training, we should voluntarily take upon ourselves any suffering that occurs. We should think like this instead: “In the past while practicing ‘taking and giving’, I made prayers to be able to take other beings’ sufferings upon myself and give my happiness to them. Now I am experiencing that very suffering.”
Does that not contradict our Dharma practice? We practice Dharma to get rid or minimize our ego so that it does not harm others but benefit them instead and on this end we are praying so that we will be preserved and we will be protected! Interesting how our mind deceives itself. I was guilty of that too once as well, needless to say, but i am glad that my Dharma protector put me in situations where I had to re-evaluate myself and adjust my motivations repeatedly so that I can really advance in my Dharma practice, so that I can present to my Guru a transformed me as the best offering he can ever have and for that I need the Dharma protector's assistance.