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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: beggar on September 17, 2010, 05:13:02 PM
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There is this common misunderstanding: People pray to dharma protectors to clear their difficulties and/or they wish for something good to come into their lives. It is mistaken to assume that just because we don't get what we want, that the dharma protectors are wrong or that they are not helping us. Sometimes, the very fact that you don't get what you want is because the dharma protector is helping you!
It could be that the thing that we wish for is harmful to us and bring us further into our delusions, problems, negative karmas - so we don't get it. Or maybe we get the complete opposite to what we wish for - that whole experience could be the actual purification we keep praying and hoping for. We "suffer" when this happens. We experience mental anguish, frustration, stress, pain or not getting the expected result. We might even suffer some kind of material or financial loss. We might fall ill from the experience. Whichever way we turn, there are problems waiting for us!
But it could also be that from going through this experience, we learn, we transform our minds, we purify the obstacles - then another more positive result arises which is what we could have wished for in the first place. Along the way, we might transform our minds, gain the qualities and strength to deal with a situation - then, instead of the obstacles just disappearing like magic, we instead gain the ability, wisdom and courage to deal with it in the most beneficial and effective way. The protector literally creates a situation for us to clear our own obstacles ourselves.
So, be careful what you wish for - it may not come out exactly the way you hope it will but trust that it is for your ultimate benefit. The dharma protectors never harm us but it is crucial that we maintain faith and trust that whatever we wish for from the protector will manifest in a form that would be most beneficial to us for our spiritual path, even if we "don't like it."
So tell us, how have your prayers been answered?
yours, beggar
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Dear Beggar,
What you mention is really intriguing and I totally agree. The Dharma Protector's role is to protect the Dharma and part of that protection is actually to strengthen us spiritually. How does a Dharma Protector strengthen our Dharma practice? Well, he does it by not completely removing all obstacles. Sometimes, he 'allows' smaller obstacles to befall us so we fall down, learn from it and grow spiritually.
Well, everything is within the safe and watchful eyes of the Dharma Protector...in this case Dorje Shugden. With his infinite wisdom, he assesses our ability to cope and he dishes out what we can take. Hence, for seasoned practitioners, Dorje Shugden actually allow smaller obstacles so he can actually protect our Dharma practice.
I believe that wholeheartedly because I have seen it happen to me and my fellow Dharma brothers and sisters. Hence, we do our practice and black teas asking for what is best for us and not just to blindly remove all obstacles. As Shantideva said, it is better to wear sandals than to sweep the whole earth. Dorje Shugden's practice helps us to do just that!
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Well, everything is within the safe and watchful eyes of the Dharma Protector...in this case Dorje Shugden.
In other words, pray what you want but be happy with what you get.
Initially I don't quite get this, because I am like everyone else, we all want a quick fix to our problems and obstacles. But as I think deeper, and understanding the principles of Buddhism which is totally based on KARMA ..........
Karma is created by oneself........
Karma is experienced by oneself.........
And karma is ceased in oneself.
I realised that if our protector loves us, he would like us to purify as much negative karma as possible in the ways that we can bear and cope with in this life time without being carried forward to our future lives. Like compound interests, negative karma is mutiplying everday if not purified.
So we should be grateful if problems or obstacles arise when we engage in protector practices or retrreats. We should think in a positive way that our negative karma has a chance to be pruified faster. The duress, mental or physical pain, financial losses or any sicknesses that we go through are in fact out of the kindness, compassion and skillful means of our protector.
Triesa
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Well said, BU.
When we start our practice and prayers, we must stop thinking that we know best. We don't.
Why we don't because if we did, we would already be Enlightened by now.
As opposed to popular belief and want - a quick fix is never a real solution because it does not get to the heart of the matter, the root of the cause.
Hence, a cycle will repeat itself. A pattern will exist.
When we go through a purification process - meaning, we learn, we address these issues, not run away and try to escape, we actually confront and resolve them by actually going through the entire process - then we will emerge as a truly transformed person. At least, much transformed than previously.
We can un-do old habits by thinking it will go away without effort.
At this day and age, I find that although people have much conveniences at their disposal, they have become lazier. Nobody really wants to work at anything and for anything anymore. Hence, the quick fix mentality.
It is really a disease of utter laziness.
Hence, we experience the karma we have created.
After laziness is fear - because we are so into cherishing the self - anything tough, or bad that happens to us, we will cry, complain, whine and whinge.
We have zero perseverance. This is the society we are becoming - of self-cherishing sloths.
In this respect, I can totally understand how Dharma will definitely disappear in due time.
No one will care to practise anymore because it takes too much effort and they will live in fear of suffering any 'purification processes' because they do not believe in the ultimate good.
In the end, we will get what we want and we will truly regret when we get it.
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On the other hand, I would like to stress that Dorje Shugden does not create and remove karma magically. No Buddha can do that no matter how close karmically they are with us. What Dorje Shugden does is that with his practice, he purifies karma especially with his practice of kawang/kangshak so our positive karma can come up. On the other hand, black teas are really powerful way to tap into Dorje Shugden's blessings in dire circumstances for quick assistance. In that way, Dorje Shugden is the most supreme for such things.
At the end of the day, Dorje Shugden's practice is no miracle quick fix really because whatever he bestows, we must have the karma for it and he merely brings it forward. When we get what we want, he ensures that it doesn't bring us down spiritually. Like I said earlier, Dorje Shugden's primary concern is our spiritual practice and nothing more.
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Further to what BU said regarding Dorje Shugden removing our karma, i also read that no Buddha can remove our karma. What Dorje Shugden does would be to delay the manifestation of our negative karma, such as if i was meant to have an accident, Dorje Shugden would delay that karma from ripening and allow me to purify that karma by purification practices so that in the end that karma may not even ripen because it has been purified. Or if the karma is very heavy, and would have normally resulted in a very severe accident with loss of limbs, by allowing me to purify it, when the accident happens, the car is smashed up but i'm physically okay.
I just think i am so darned lucky to have Dorje Shugden to look after me. I just feel so safe when I think of him.
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In addition to our karma, whether or not we get our wishes granted by Dorje Shugden also depends on the state of our mind and Dharma practice. If our minds and practice are unstable and we quickly get everything we wish for, there is a high chance that this superficially “good” thing because our downfall. Fast rising celebrities are good examples: they become rich and famous quickly and, with an unprepared mind, these starlets succumb to the “poisons” of their good fortune…resulting in their own eventual downfall. In more serious cases, death could result if the negative karma is reinforced as they get entrapped in the vicious cycle of non-virtuous acts like drug addiction.
As shared by Big Uncle, there are available obstacle removal practices that will help. However, I would like to humbly add that it is also very important to watch our reaction when our requested are not granted. If we accept, continue to have faith and make effort on our own to reach our goals, our reaction will cause the exhaustion of a negative karma AND the opening of a positive karma. Therefore, in not giving us what we want immediately, Dorje Shugden is giving us what we need eventually: spiritual progress towards enlightenment.
Wisdombeing, I am completely with you: I am the luckiest person to have Dorje Shugden in my life. Whenever fear arises, I think of Him and the fear reduces or go away. It would be simply wonderful to share this “lucky charm” with more people so that suffering can be reduced. Fortunately for us, available tools are easily downloadable on dorjeshugden.com!
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I agree that no Buddha can remove our karma. What Dorje shugden does is to prevent or suppress the negative karma from arising so that we can have the chance to collect more positive karma through dharma practices or activities. Even if our negative karma were to arise, the impact will be less.
As Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being he will do what is best for us and will not let what we desire pull us down from our spiritual path. So we should be grateful that negative karma arises in small "doses" in a conducive environment instead of accumulation which eventually we will need to purge out more "garbage" in us which will cause more duress, pain and sufferings.
And I also agree with Wisdom Being, I am also one of the luckiest person to have Dorje Shugden in my life. I know that through his compassion He will take care and never fail me and I trusted and surrender myself to him!!! We are all so lucky to have HIM in our lives.!!!
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Sometimes, you DO ACTUALLY GET WHAT YOU WANT, but the process of getting there is very difficult at first. The situation arises for you to purify the obstacles which are stopping you from getting what you want. If you ride it through and purify that obstacle, then the thing you wish for comes about easily.
Now the process of purification itself must include the four opponent powers of course, for it to be truly effective. If not, and if we just keep on creating negative karma / negative situations from the obstacle, then we only create the causes for more and more obstacles to arise. Sometimes it becomes overwhelming - the obstacles might take over and practitioners may just give up or level. Then we never get beyond this process and therefore never get what we really pray for.
It's important all the time to think of how we are acting and practicing all the time. Then, if we do that, when obstacles arises or when we don't get what we want at first, we actually turn that situation into a positive one by making it a true process of purification.
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Well said, Beggar. To have our negative karma purified, practice of the 4 opponent powers is very important. Otherwise we will just be experiencing the results of our negative actions and might even accumulate more negative karma due to our negative reactions to misfortunes.
Whenever misfortune occurs , we MUST acknowledge we created the causes for it ; we then feel strong regret for having committed such negativities that give rise to our sufferings and pains; relying on either the buddhas and/or fellow beings by practising dharma sincerely and purely we make genuine promise not to commit the negative action(s) any more.
With our Protector watching over us, we should engage in dharma practice whole heartedly. Otherwise we shall squander away our merit of meeting DS in this life.
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With our Protector watching over us, we should engage in dharma practice whole heartedly. Otherwise we shall squander away our merit of meeting DS in this life.
This is the statement that really summed up our samsaric existence.
Karma and merits will change all the time. Before we know it, we might have squandered away all our merits and then, our karma will run out, and then what will happen to us?
Everything in life needs maintenance.
Same with merits and karma - they all need maintenance. It is an on-going consistent effort.
We cant be doing good for one month and then be bad for the next few months and expect everything will still be ok.
It is exactly like losing weight - for the lack of a better analogy.
How can we work out and eat healthy for three months and then gain the health and shape we want, and after that, just let ourselves go and just eat whatever we want. We will definitely put on the weight again and possibly gain more weight than we previously had, with the possibility of adding other health risks - depending on what we have been binging on.
Like that, the health of our karma and merits needs to be well looked after. And this requires consistent effort, commitment and time.
Only with continued effort and commitment, will we see real lasting results.
And that should be the very thing we aim for - lasting results.
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Like that, the health of our karma and merits needs to be well looked after. And this requires consistent effort, commitment and time.
Only with continued effort and commitment, will we see real lasting results.
Bravo and well said! Consistency is key and I am starting to understand this more and more.
The teachings talk frequently about how important it is to remain consistent. At first I didn't really understand why it was such a big deal or why it needed to be emphasised so much. I thought "But I'm already in Dharma aren't I? I'm here aren't I? I'm already being consistent, no need to remind me!"
But going back to the original topic of this question.... consistency applies very much to this topic because we need to maintain a very consistent and stable frame of mine to work through the toughest times, when we don't get what we want or expect.
How stable and consistent can we maintain our efforts when we don't get what we want? Or when our prayers to the protector seem to come out the opposite? I have seen it all too often in fellow Dharma friends that when they don't get what they want, they leave the Dharma completely. Sometimes, it is literally that their prayers are not answered; or sometimes it is something more subtle, like people not behaving or working in the way that they want.
Just a little bit of hesitation and doubt can escalate and take away all our consistency. Sometimes doubt is characterised as a thief - because it steals away all our attainments, effort, faith and devotion in just one split second of a negative thought. We don't even realise it sometimes, maybe until it is far too late.
So consistency is key - how we weather the storm, no matter how turbulent it can become inside our big old complicated heads. And consistency is tied in very much to devotion, faith, commitment, samaya. I am seeing more and more now, that it is enough to have whole hearted Guru devotion and faith because then even if you don't get what you "want", you are fulfilled in every part of your life anyway: all your wishes become fulfilled on an ultimate level and there's nothing left for "wanting".
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Can't agree more, consistency is one of the 6 parameters. So when come to protector practice, yes the same consistency applies. Our protector will definitely grant our wishes if we have been consistent, and do not give up nomatter what tough purifications we might be going through. By going through purifications without giving up is also a very good reflection that our minds are stable, and that we are committed in our practice.
The why wouldn't a Dharma protector grant our little wishes if we are consistent and committed?
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One of Dharma Protector's role is to create the conducive conditions for our practice until we achieve enlightenment. Conducive conditions does not mean a cushioned journey as many of the practitioners here in this forum may concur.
Leave behind our own projections of what is "perfect", what is conducive. Our minds arises from delusions, thus what do we actually know about creating the conditions suitable for our own practice. We are in the situation we are in because we do not know better. How kind our Protector and Lama is to provide us with such conditions.
With studying, we have knowledge of who our Protector is. With knowledge and understanding, faith and a firm mind must be cultivated. Then gratefulness and determination to go through the many trappings of samsara will be ever present.
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One of Dharma Protector's role is to create the conducive conditions for our practice until we achieve enlightenment. Conducive conditions does not mean a cushioned journey as many of the practitioners here in this forum may concur.
Leave behind our own projections of what is "perfect", what is conducive. Our minds arises from delusions, thus what do we actually know about creating the conditions suitable for our own practice. We are in the situation we are in because we do not know better. How kind our Protector and Lama is to provide us with such conditions.
With studying, we have knowledge of who our Protector is. With knowledge and understanding, faith and a firm mind must be cultivated. Then gratefulness and determination to go through the many trappings of samsara will be ever present.
A great insight. Too many of us think that "conducive conditions" means a nice easy happy life when actually we forget that it means "conducive conditions FOR PRACTICE". So a conducive condition for learning humility could be when you totally lose all your money, or you get demoted. A conducive condition for gaining that beautiful quality of patience could be meeting extremely difficult people. Conducive conditions for purifying your karma could manifest as a horrid illness for a while. ALL terrible scenarios, but very CONDUCIVE for growth and practice.
Like DSFriend has touched on, perspective and reliance on our Gurus, The Three Jewels and our Protectors are most important to carry us through the tide and weather the storm. If we choose to see every situation as positive, it will go a much longer way for our journey and success; if we choose to see every situation as a bad one, then we will also get the results of that: bad results (or worse, no results!)
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Once my Lama said something like …“ when misfortune happens, it’s spiritually good for us”.
It may sound contradictory to people who think that getting their wishes/prayers answered is the Divine’s sign for them to continue with their spiritual practice. From Buddhists’ point of view, only when we have experienced disappointments, unhappiness or pains often enough will we turn to true spirituality ... "Yes, I've had enough of not getting what I want … so what is the way to get out of this unending rounds of dis satisfactions and frustrations?"
Thanks, DSFriend & Beggar for sharing a different angle to contemplate the meaning of conducive conditions. If we have strong faith in the dharma protector, every unanswered prayer should be viewed as a great chance for us to advance spiritually.
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One of Dharma Protector's role is to create the conducive conditions for our practice until we achieve enlightenment. Conducive conditions does not mean a cushioned journey as many of the practitioners here in this forum may concur.
Leave behind our own projections of what is "perfect", what is conducive. Our minds arises from delusions, thus what do we actually know about creating the conditions suitable for our own practice. We are in the situation we are in because we do not know better. How kind our Protector and Lama is to provide us with such conditions.
With studying, we have knowledge of who our Protector is. With knowledge and understanding, faith and a firm mind must be cultivated. Then gratefulness and determination to go through the many trappings of samsara will be ever present.
Couldn't agree more. Sometimes it is good that some misfortune or disappointments fall on us as it is a sign of purification of some obstacles that were to arise. By clearing away those obstacles, it will create a more conducive environment for us to pursue our spiritual practice. Having faith and trust in our dharma protector , we will also be mentally strong to overcome these disappointments and to view it as a chance for the growth of our spiritual practice
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Sometimes it is good that some misfortune or disappointments fall on us as it is a sign of purification of some obstacles that were to arise. By clearing away those obstacles, it will create a more conducive environment for us to pursue our spiritual practice. Having faith and trust in our dharma protector , we will also be mentally strong to overcome these disappointments and to view it as a chance for the growth of our spiritual practice
What you share is the reason how we can rejoice when going through negative experiences. For the longest time, I knew (in my head) that I should rejoice but I didn't know how to in my heart. It was only until recently, I started to learn how to use negative experiences as a stepping stone instead of being crushed by it everytime!
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Once my Lama said something like …“ when misfortune happens, it’s spiritually good for us”.
It may sound contradictory to people who think that getting their wishes/prayers answered is the Divine’s sign for them to continue with their spiritual practice. From Buddhists’ point of view, only when we have experienced disappointments, unhappiness or pains often enough will we turn to true spirituality ... "Yes, I've had enough of not getting what I want … so what is the way to get out of this unending rounds of dis satisfactions and frustrations?"
Thanks, DSFriend & Beggar for sharing a different angle to contemplate the meaning of conducive conditions. If we have strong faith in the dharma protector, every unanswered prayer should be viewed as a great chance for us to advance spiritually.
When everything goes right, who will find the time to embark on the spiritual journey?? People will continue to engage in what they are doing, like making money, having fun and entertainment, going on holidays, more shopping for things that they don't really need, etc
I myself is also a great example. If it was not due to some mishaps that had happened to me some 10 years ago, I wouldn't know what Buddha dharma is all about. The mishap was actually a "Blessing" in disguise to me.
You will only know whether you are spirituality "fit" (if I may use the word) when faced with conditions and circumstances that are against your wishes.
Triesa
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There are people who get what they want very early in life and there are people who get what they want much later in life. People who get it early in life, they don't really have to work for it and end up basically spoilt while those who get it much later in life have to work for it. Perhaps, by the blessings of the Protector, obstacles come and we have to work for what we want in life. It is basically purification in order to enjoy something bigger and beneficial. It makes us appreciate it better and even use what we want to benefit others. Some of us want lots of money, nice car, business etc and when we get it, we can use our wealth and name for a worthy charity or to spread our beliefs.
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I agree with what has been said so far about how DS doesn't give people what they want, when they want it, if they get it might draw them away from the dharma.. etc etc They're really true, my family and I have experienced it first-hand...and it has all come out for the better now.
But there are times when dharma protectors like Dorje Shugden does give you what you want, immediately.
There are some people who need that to develop faith...there are some people who need to be "convinced" in that way...so why not, when after doing so the person will go all the way with his/her practice. Dorje Shugden has the clairvoyance to know what's appropriate for each person.
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Many of us say that we want big big things like PATIENCE or PEACE or COMPASSION but if we really knew what that entailed we'd probably run away. The stories of the mahasiddhas and great masters are excellent examples for us to see what it means to really want something.
Naropa really wanted to study with his Guru and perfect his Guru devotion so he consciously chose a difficult path for 12 years, where he was ignored and had to live through so much physical hardship. Atisha, wanting to practice patience and the lojong teachings (or appearing to want to practice this, since he has already attained this qualities at the most superior level of course!), chose as his travel companion the one person in the whole monastery who disliked him and constantly criticised him. How many of us can say we would put up with all that?
If we really wanted to achieve attainments in our practice and grow beyond our limited scope of now, we would always be choosing the difficult path and doing all the things we dislike or are scared of. This is maybe a contradiction that to get what you want (ultimately), you have to first choose the path of everything you DON'T WANT. An interesting conundrum?
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There is the old adage - be careful what you pray for because you may just get it.
When we pray for something - be it to have more patience, to be kinder.. I do think that the Protector will create the circumstances for us to learn patience and kindness, forgiveness, etc. Hence we will be put in a position where situations will make us impatient so that we can practice patience, and people will send harm to us so we can practice forgiveness. it's ironic but true.
Also, as we go through our day to day, we need to be constantly aware that we are not driven by the 8 worldly concerns. If we do, we're screwed. I notice that when I do get depressed it is completely because of the 8 worldly concerns - i want praise, i want to avoid blame, i want people to think well of me, i don't want to have a bad reputation. I want material comforts and not be without them, and I definitely want pleasure and not pain (no, i'm not a masochist). Thank Buddha that I know about these 8 evil worldly concerns that I can be mindful of what's going on in my monkey mind.
I pray i won't be subject to these 8 worldly concerns but you know what, i bet they'll ALL just come and have a private party in my life and turn everything upside down precisely so that i will have to learn how to be free of them.
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Haha - well said, WB!
I like how you put all things into such a witty perspective.
If we think about it, then we always do get what we pray for because the conditions did arise to help us practise patience, kindness, compassion, etc. It is just that we did not expect them to be adverse conditions that would arise to help us in our practice.
We always wants our prayers in come in beautifully neatly wrapped up packages like Christmas! Again, expectations and perceptions. Aren' they such deadly killers?
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Haha - well said, WB!
I like how you put all things into such a witty perspective.
If we think about it, then we always do get what we pray for because the conditions did arise to help us practise patience, kindness, compassion, etc. It is just that we did not expect them to be adverse conditions that would arise to help us in our practice.
We always wants our prayers in come in beautifully neatly wrapped up packages like Christmas! Again, expectations and perceptions. Aren' they such deadly killers?
Agree with you, Helena!
Expectations and perceptions are definitely the causes of our sufferings. The thing is to truck on and get on with it despite our expectations and perceptions. I think one of our worst delusions is when we have expectations of the Sangha - when we simply have no clue what is real and what is not - how can we even begin to demand anything of the Sangha. We start saying how a Lama, nun or monk should act or shouldn't act - in accordance with what we think is right. Perhaps we should look at ourselves first instead of others.
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I think one of our worst delusions is when we have expectations of the Sangha - when we simply have no clue what is real and what is not - how can we even begin to demand anything of the Sangha. We start saying how a Lama, nun or monk should act or shouldn't act - in accordance with what we think is right. Perhaps we should look at ourselves first instead of others.
I think another one of our biggest failings is when we have expectations of what spiritual practice / dharma practice should be like. We have a grand idea of it being something blissed out or exotic of full of peace and we get upset when it doesn't turn out that way, or when we realise that actually, it involves a lot of hard work and confronting things we don't like, all our demons.
This is why the whole process of checking things out before we commit to it is very important - be sure that THIS teacher is the one you wish to follow and when you make that decision to follow him, you do it all the way with no expectation or conditions. Once you choose and commit to a spiritual path, and follow it properly, then everything that arises along the way becomes an opportunity to practice and to see your own mind. so if things don't turn out as you want or expect them to turn out, then look at yourself first: How do you react? How angry do you get? Do you meet the situation with more negativity or positivity? Or do you take it as a chance for practice and growth? Sticking by something you DON'T want or like, and overcoming it to accomplish something higher is what spiritual practice actually is. It's not about just getting what you want (or what you THINK you want).
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Dear WB and Beggar,
I totally agree with what both of your wrote here.
It is amazing that lay people can place so much conditions and expectations on the Sangha or even the Gurus. Considering that none of them have had any experience in the monastic or spiritual life/academics.
A lot of lay people think that they may know a great deal about how monastic and ordained communities should be like or are like, but they really don't.
They might have an idea but it is really an un-informed and un-educated concept.
If lay people have actually spent time in monastic communities and environment, they would come to understand that the life in the Sangha is very different. There are studies and disciplines which they may never even imagined. Especially in Tibetan Buddhism.
People always get shocked when they look at the Yum Yab statues or even Vajrayogini, for example. They cannot imagine that these are Buddhas. In actual fact, what they are really doing is using their ordinary worldly contaminated mind to look at spirituality. Hence, all spirituality that goes through such tainted lenses will naturally come out tainted as well. It is definitely not pure nor right. Not completely, at least.
As I travel around the different places in the world, I realised that different countries hold different definitions of spirituality. I am inclined to think that they truly like hanging onto what they like to believe - even if it is not true or right. It is what they have grown accustomed to.
Hence, it is their tradition to believe as such and practise as such. Because it is tradition or customary, thus, it becomes for them, the right way. Anything else would be deemed as radical or un-holy.
Amazing how information can be processed and passed down through the years and generations, and how much of its true essence can be lost completely.
We are very fortunate that we have what we have today - our Gurus, the Dharma and the centers, the Sangha, etc. Such are the remains of the priceless jewels from the past that can be traced all the way to Buddha Shakyamuni. This makes it a truly authentic heritage...the real gem to behold.
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Yes, regarding how we always want the Protector to answer our prayers to Him by 'giving us what we want', my Lama had this to say. He said that we should not be telling the Protector how we want Him to answer our prayers and clear our obstacles. After all, we were the ones who had created those obstacles as we had created the causes for them to arise. We should just trust the Protector who will always act in our best interest in terms of our ultimate spiritual goal of ultimate peace and freedom from all suffering.
The Protector will always focus long range on what we need to help us progress on our Dharma path. In the end, the Dharma in us will be the ultimate medicine that will overcome all our persistent problems and obstacles in samsara and heal us of our sufferings by addressing their causes(negative karma and negative imprints opening up) and the root causes(our delusions, especially the three poisons). So the Dharma protector will skillfully 'engineer it' for us to purify our negativities and transform our negative mental states into positive ones as has been clearly shown above in earlier posts.
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I think another one of our biggest failings is when we have expectations of what spiritual practice / dharma practice should be like. We have a grand idea of it being something blissed out or exotic of full of peace and we get upset when it doesn't turn out that way, or when we realise that actually, it involves a lot of hard work and confronting things we don't like, all our demons.
Very very true... If we have this skewed perception when we pray to the 3 Jewels, and do not get what we want (but get what we need instead), then there may be a high chance of us not continuing with the practice and continuing with our greedy spoilt ways. Hence it is very important to educate ourselves and newcomers on this point.
I'm glad to have met with the Dharma and understand how the Buddhas grant our wishes, the knowledge helps me turn an otherwise annoying/ frustrating situation into a positive practice ground for developing patience/ compassion. I think this kind of Concept is similar to the Christian's explanation of "why bad things happen to me, I pray to God but I'm still so poor and sick" with "God has His ways / God works in mysterious ways"... basically to have faith in your Buddha/God and trust that He will protect you. The Concept is also covers the old saying "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger". Somehow combining the spiritual and conventional explanation helps the medicine taste better.
May we all one day be so happy and eager to meet/find annoying/angersome people (like Atisha) so that we can practice the 8 verses of thought transformation (properly) and become the most compassionate and patient people ever =)
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I re read WB's old post about asking for compassion and patience and the protector will manifest the conditions for us to practise that. The conditions that are right for patience is probably a difficult situation or person or difficulty. The conditions that are right for compassion could be a situation where someone could have done you wrong, people are hurt or fall into difficult circumstances, but the gist of it is challenging situations!
So the protector sometimes would throw us a curve ball to help us grow!
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There is the old adage - be careful what you pray for because you may just get it.
When we pray for something - be it to have more patience, to be kinder.. I do think that the Protector will create the circumstances for us to learn patience and kindness, forgiveness, etc. Hence we will be put in a position where situations will make us impatient so that we can practice patience, and people will send harm to us so we can practice forgiveness. it's ironic but true.
Also, as we go through our day to day, we need to be constantly aware that we are not driven by the 8 worldly concerns. If we do, we're screwed. I notice that when I do get depressed it is completely because of the 8 worldly concerns - i want praise, i want to avoid blame, i want people to think well of me, i don't want to have a bad reputation. I want material comforts and not be without them, and I definitely want pleasure and not pain (no, i'm not a masochist). Thank Buddha that I know about these 8 evil worldly concerns that I can be mindful of what's going on in my monkey mind.
I pray i won't be subject to these 8 worldly concerns but you know what, i bet they'll ALL just come and have a private party in my life and turn everything upside down precisely so that i will have to learn how to be free of them.
Well said! It is so true that if we want to be compassionate but there is no situation for us to practise that, how are we going to cultivate that value? If there is no failure, if there is no problems, we won't be able to grow.
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I would like to see of prayers with this way: We are actually consulting the deities for help, the same way we consult a lawyer or accountant for help. Because we want to get something done and we do not know how, thus we consult them for help. If we know what to do, then we need not consult their help anymore to solve our problems, right? The reason why we pray for their help is because we cannot find a solution to our problems and we want one.
If we request help from an accountant with our taxes or finances, do we actually tell him the exact way we want our accounts done? Tell him where the numbers should go in the ledger book…or what way he should use to work out our finances…and if the numbers come out not to our satisfaction do we blame and scold and say that they did not do their job? they did, but just that the outcome is not what we wanted. We don't because we trust that they did it correctly.
If we can apply the adage "trust me, I'm a professional" to worldly professional services that we have, why can't we trust our Dharma protectors and lamas when we pray for something such as good business, or to heal a disease and we balk whenever something turns out "wrong"…when in reality it is the situation purifying itself. By losing trust and faith so easily in the instructions given, especially when they don't follow what we expect, might as well do it on our own.
Sometimes it depends also, on how educated in Dharma that person is, or how much they actually think logically and realize that Samsara and the enlightened state has many similarities: namely both also need a lot of effort to succeed in. The people who expect quick results and they get upset when not usually will not end up anywhere because in Samsara, from business to relationships, everything needs patience, effort and persistence. So why does it not apply to Dharma related matters?
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We should surrender to Dorje Shugden just like we had surrendered to our guru because Dorje Shugden is the Guru and vice-versa. We trust that Dorje Shugden will provide us favourable conditions for our Dharma practice and remove obstacles to our Dharma practice.
Dharma protectors like Dorje Shugden are protecting us by holding our hands if we rely on them and are sincerely engaging in Dharma Practice. Holding our hands means that we will be guided along the path to liberation and full enlightenment. Had Dorje Shugden not hold our hands, we will be at the mercy of our karma.
Surrendering to Dorje Shugden doesn’t mean we don’t have to do anything and let Dorje Shugden provide us everything. Spiritual practice is about transformation of our mind. No one (not even Dorje Shugden) can do the practice for us or transform our mind. We are personally responsible for the transformation of our mind, our liberation from samsara and full enlightenment.
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By surrendering to Dorje Shugden, we put our faith and trust in him that he will clear away our obstacles and provide a conducive condition for us to pursue our spiritual path. As a dharma protector, he is here to protect the dharma and dharma practitioners. But that doesn’t mean we don’t do anything and wait for miracles to happen. We need to create the cause to be connected with him for his help and guidance.
When obstacles arise due to our karma, Dorje Shugden will find the best method to help us purify those negative karmas and will not let our negative karma pull us away from our spiritual path. Sometimes the obstacle can be a blessing in disguise. Obstacles can come in many forms and this is the time to apply what we learn to overcome the obstacles. We need to put in the effort to succeed and we come out of the situation as a stronger person.
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Hmm, i seemed to have forgotten to mention something somewhat important..whether or not a difficult situation is in reality a blessing in disguise. In some situations, a seemingly negative situation may prove to be positive when it brings people in towards the Dharma and towards the spiritual path, for example a person turning to the Dharma after a disastrous relationship.
People tend to view situations on the surface rather than wanting to see the bigger picture of the situation, because it is easier and because they are insecure and they want to have their results verified. They are too afraid to trust and want to see "results", or rather just what they perceive as results rather than actually following through and doing deeper reflection on the situation. They are quick to give up and are afraid.
As serious practitioners, if we wish to consider ourselves at that direction, we should not balk at the sight of a bit of suffering. In fact we should see unfavorable conditions to be positive, depending on where it leads our mind to. If what we perceive as bad happens when we petition the protector's help, it could be that it would have been worse if it happened even later. Therefore, the whole thing is in reality a blessing in disguise.
If we are willing to go through some painful medical procedures such as surgery to heal ourselves, would it not make sense that we also need to go through some painful or unpleasant points in our journey to our spiritual goals? It does not make sense at all that we are wiling to put up with surgery but not willing to put up with unpleasant situations that help us to grow and mature. That is why i find people who give up when the protector does not work their way very, very silly.
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It’s quite a norm for most people pray for what they want. Obviously they are their own doctor who prescribe their own medicine without consulting the doctor and when thing doesn’t work the blaming come into the picture to say that the medicine is not working.
I think we can pray for the removal of our obstacle but the method or result might be different with what we thought. It doesn’t matter because we don’t have the Buddha clairvoyant to see what we really need in order to solve our problem permanently.
Is true what triesa mentioned that “we are the one created the problem and should be the one to resolve it. No one to blame but to Lord Shugden we seek the light or direction. Faith is important and should be getting stronger as time goes because we are the one should face our karma.
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I agree that no one, not even Buddha can remove our bad karma. But it is so comforting to know that we can purify our negative karma and Dorje Shugden can prevent the negative karma from ripening so that we have more time to purify the negativities. Most of the time, in our prayers we will wish for things based on our selfish mind and usually only for our very own benefit. When our wish is not granted/fulfilled, we should look at the whole situation in a bigger perspective. And we should always have strong faith and trust that our protector is with us always.
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It’s quite a norm for most people pray for what they want. Obviously they are their own doctor who prescribe their own medicine without consulting the doctor and when thing doesn’t work the blaming come into the picture to say that the medicine is not working.
I think we can pray for the removal of our obstacle but the method or result might be different with what we thought. It doesn’t matter because we don’t have the Buddha clairvoyant to see what we really need in order to solve our problem permanently.
Is true what triesa mentioned that “we are the one created the problem and should be the one to resolve it. No one to blame but to Lord Shugden we seek the light or direction. Faith is important and should be getting stronger as time goes because we are the one should face our karma.
Its more like most people have a fixed idea of what they want and they have a closed mind on how they want a solution to be implemented. It's because people in general are quite skeptical and they do not develop faith easily. That is also one of the reasons why education is very, very important when it comes to adopting a Dharma protector practice. We have to make sure that our friends and family is well educated about the nature of the Dharma protector.
People these days tend to want a quick fix instead of a proper solution because everything these days just comes so easy for them. It makes the people lazy to actually do investigation and learn up. This might be a good way to bring people in to Dharma when we introduce them to Dorje Shugden but over time they should be educated on the ways of a standard Dharma protector so that they will learn more.
This helps to prevent the next generation of Buddhists from seeing Dorje Shugden as some sort of godfather and allow the sacred practice to degenerate into blind faith of something that they just pray to and get…although they will be connected to the Dharma somehow, but wouldn't it be much better to help these people have at least some value in their lives and to learn more Dharma in the long run?
Dorje Shugden, after all has only one goal for all his practitioners: for them to attain the perfect and unsurpassed enlightenment. As his practitioners we should also help others to be on that way whenever we can, especially for those who have already made a connection. It cannot be that we leave everything to Dorje Shugden, alone.
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Normally when people pray to any Buddha, they always make wishes for them self, family and love one as that only the way they were brought up and know about it.
Now a day with hi-technology stuff and social media which people can find, search for any information with just a finger click so people are more educate and understand more than just pray by blind faith or just do as been told like in the past.
i came across with some people who have problems and seeking for way to solve their problems and they feel that they have hope when they know about the Dharma protector.
Of course, in the beginning they already thought that thing will be easy just by praying and they will get the result as they want. So explanation is needed in order for new people to enter to their spiritual path otherwise it just a hope of miracle and later on they will say that the Dharma protector has no power. Sad isn't it but these the truth.
A few years back, my guru told me how to pray to the Dharma protector which is you can pray what you want but accept what you get.. that really true, how Dharma protector can provide things that i wish if i don't have karma to get it or that things doesn't bring ultimate benefit to me.
The Dharma protector has power but i don't have karma to receive it. Therefore i have to create a cause to have good karma to receive it by stop negative actions, enter in purification practice and do positive actions to generate good karma or merit. it seems to be easy but it not otherwise lot of people will be enlightenment by now in this degeneration time.
We always judge what we see form our delusion mind, hence we don't understand and have wrong view from the wisdom beings.
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I would like to see of prayers with this way: We are actually consulting the deities for help, the same way we consult a lawyer or accountant for help. Because we want to get something done and we do not know how, thus we consult them for help. If we know what to do, then we need not consult their help anymore to solve our problems, right? The reason why we pray for their help is because we cannot find a solution to our problems and we want one.
I agree with you. I was talking to someone about devotion recently which got me thinking about how we do all have devotion. Like you say, Ensapa, we're very devoted and have a lot of faith in our lawyers or accountants. We entrust our entire lives and fates to them! We have a lot of devotion for a lot less - often even for inanimate objects like our money or our things. I've met people who you could say are very devoted to their houses and cars and possessions!
So to have faith in a Dharma protector and devotion towards your path (including your teacher, the deities and your practices) isn't something unusual. It's just different from what we are used to.
The thing is we are devoted to things or people because we grow up being told that these things (or people) are good for us and will bring us happiness: like money, property, husbands and wives. So we give our complete devotion to these things, believing completely that they will bring us something good.
The same can be said for any of our practice and our relationship with our teacher. There are many, many countless proven examples that following the path and practices will yield us wonderful, beautiful results. We can see these "results" in the many practitioners who live this path. But we are still hesitant to trust it fully. I suppose then, we are still choosing our paradigm over another - as long as we don't have full devotion in our Gurus, Yidams, Dharma protectors, sadhanas etc it usually means it's because we still have some kind of strange devotion to something else. You can't be fully devoted to both samsara and dharma at the same time. So the devotion is the same - it's just switching it to something else, and understanding the higher benefit that one has over the other.
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Before I became a buddhist and started my protector practice, just like most of the people, I prayed for what I want. I pray that I'm going to get rich, be with the person that I like, I prayed that there would be no problems. Most of the time, I don't get what I want. Then I started to doubt the higher beingsn how come they didn't answer my prayers?
Then I have the good fortunate to have met Dharma. I began to understand what Karma and Merit are. Then a deeper understanding of the role oif a Dharma Protector to a practitioner. I realised what we want might not be what will be good for us. Simple example, when were young, we liked to eat candy, most likely not proper meal. Our parents would do everything to make sure we no candy for us but proper meal. Not getting the candy upset us. Little did we know, our parents didn't want to grant our wish because candy in effect did no good to us.
Now, I don't wish for what I want. I leave it in the hand of the protector. With this understanding in mind, I can handle problems and difficulties easiier because I know they happen because I will gain something out of it and they are for sure for me to become a better person and be of benefit to others.
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Quote from Dolce Vita: Now, I don't wish for what I want. I leave it in the hand of the protector. With this understanding in mind, I can handle problems and difficulties easiier because I know they happen because I will gain something out of it and they are for sure for me to become a better person and be of benefit to others.
When we have understanding of the dharma, we surrender ourselves to our Guru and dharma protector. We have full faith and trust in them. So even when problems and difficulties arise, it is a blessing in disguise as through overcoming those obstacles we will gain something much more beneficial out of it and the results will be good. Dorje Shugen is an enlightened Dharma Protector, He will never harm us but will guide us through those difficult times.
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Before I became a buddhist and started my protector practice, just like most of the people, I prayed for what I want. I pray that I'm going to get rich, be with the person that I like, I prayed that there would be no problems. Most of the time, I don't get what I want. Then I started to doubt the higher beingsn how come they didn't answer my prayers?
Then I have the good fortunate to have met Dharma. I began to understand what Karma and Merit are. Then a deeper understanding of the role oif a Dharma Protector to a practitioner. I realised what we want might not be what will be good for us. Simple example, when were young, we liked to eat candy, most likely not proper meal. Our parents would do everything to make sure we no candy for us but proper meal. Not getting the candy upset us. Little did we know, our parents didn't want to grant our wish because candy in effect did no good to us.
Now, I don't wish for what I want. I leave it in the hand of the protector. With this understanding in mind, I can handle problems and difficulties easiier because I know they happen because I will gain something out of it and they are for sure for me to become a better person and be of benefit to others.
However, that still does not mean that we can stick all of our responsibility into the protector's hands and just say "I leave all my responsibilities into the protector's hands because I trust the protector" and stop studying for exams because you "trust" the protector or letting people hurt you repeatedly, doing nothing about it and saying that the protector will do something about it. No.
Trusting the protector means we let the protector determine the best possible method to help us but it does not mean that we do nothing or put in no effort to actualize the task or do nothing about the situation. It means we still do what we need to in order to achieve our goals, but when things get difficult we do not blame the protector for not helping us, or if something unexpected happens we drop the protector like a hot potato.
The Guru, Yidam and Dharma protector is in reality, one. If you do not have faith in either one of those three, nothing works. You can be devoted to the Guru and Dharma protector but if you take your Yidam lightly, nothing happens as well. Why? because you still act in ways that contradict the Dharma protector's energy. He cannot help someone who digs their own hole in the ground and sticks their own head in there.
In general, taking refuge in a Dharma protector, Guru or Yidam would mean that when things go wrong, we do not blame and bemoan anyone, that nobody helped us, that the protector does not help us and so on but take it as a training ground because at the end of the day the funny thing is there will be no permanent and lasting damage but every time something "bad" happens, you learn something new and you improve and become a better person. That is how the protector protects you in the long run: by training you to prevent you from failing in the future.