Zhalmed Pawo makes an important point:
"If you have samaya with HHDL, you should not share any resources with DS-practitioners. Therefore why would anyone like that be here, in this forum, for instance? As no-one who holds the samaya to HHDL would not come here, whatever we talk here, can not harm the ears of those. Therefore we cannot be a cause for any samaya-splits, or breaks. Even if we here would all adore HHDL, we would still be DS-practitioners, and therefore no samaya-holding disciplse of HHDL should ever come here, unless they are already breaking their samaya by simply coming here. Merely being here, in this forum, is a cause for samaya to break towards HHDL, for this is a DS-forum."
Zhalmed Pawo makes an important point:
"If you have samaya with HHDL, you should not share any resources with DS-practitioners. Therefore why would anyone like that be here, in this forum, for instance? As no-one who holds the samaya to HHDL would not come here, whatever we talk here, can not harm the ears of those. Therefore we cannot be a cause for any samaya-splits, or breaks. Even if we here would all adore HHDL, we would still be DS-practitioners, and therefore no samaya-holding disciplse of HHDL should ever come here, unless they are already breaking their samaya by simply coming here. Merely being here, in this forum, is a cause for samaya to break towards HHDL, for this is a DS-forum."
What then, if someone were to visit a non-DS Buddhist forum where the topic of discussion at hand is Dorje Shugden? There would be pro and anti DS parties - is that considered a breach of samaya?
I disagree. The nature of the modern information society is such that borders become invisible and information is available for all to share. To say that no disciple of HHDL should ever come here is false. Why not? They too deserve information and resources to make their own decisions and their own minds.
As Zhamed Palwo also eloquently writes in another thread, we are allowed to disagree and debate with our gurus - not out of disrespect, but out of a true desire to understand. Hence by logic, it would be perfectly acceptable for a samaya-holding disciple of the Dalai Lama to visit this website and forum for the purposes of gaining information and understanding the issue. Most certainly, the resources available to them from so-called 'kosher' sources would be one-sided.
If I were the a disciple of such an attained master, I would do further research, study and contemplation on any topic or instruction that he saw fit to give me, in the hope of understanding more of what I have been asked to do. NOT to disagree or disobey his advice. Hence all should be welcome to this website and forum without fear of samaya-breakage. Information is information, period.
If samaya-holding disciples of the Dalai Lama come to this site and ...
If samaya-holding disciples of the Dalai Lama come to this site and ...
HHDL has made it very clear that he does not want disciples who do associate with ruffians like us. Any student of HHDL should respect his wishes on this issue.
PS: HHDL does not support the "Big Picture" -theory. That theory is conceived by those, who hold onto HHDL while disregarding his straight comments about our practice.
Zhalmed Pawo makes an important point:
"If you have samaya with HHDL, you should not share any resources with DS-practitioners. Therefore why would anyone like that be here, in this forum, for instance? As no-one who holds the samaya to HHDL would not come here, whatever we talk here, can not harm the ears of those. Therefore we cannot be a cause for any samaya-splits, or breaks. Even if we here would all adore HHDL, we would still be DS-practitioners, and therefore no samaya-holding disciplse of HHDL should ever come here, unless they are already breaking their samaya by simply coming here. Merely being here, in this forum, is a cause for samaya to break towards HHDL, for this is a DS-forum."
If you want to remain faithful to the Dalai Lama, you should not be hanging out with Dorje Shugden practitioners. Period. That is what every Tibetan monk and lay person has been forced to put their signature to, those refusing were made to leave their monasteries.
The Dalai Lama could not have made it clearer that you cannot be both his disciple and a Dorje Shugden follower. He doesn't want Dorje Shugden followers at his teachings and says so regularly (and the FPMT also will not allow Shugden practitioners at their teachings now either, even though their founder was faithful to Dorje Shugden til his death). The Dalai Lama has said that no Dorje Shugden practitioner is a friend of his. And so on.
The Dalai Lama has made it an either/or. You can try to have your cake and eat it, but this is not what the Dalai Lama wishes. He asks you to choose. Faith in him or faith in Dorje Shugden.
Just a reminder also to those of you who don't know, Trijang Choktrul's disciples did attend the demonstrations asking the Dalai Lama to give religious freedom.
just to add... i hardly expect the Dalai lama to not support the bigger picture theory. He's unlikely to say oh by the way, I have a bigger picture in mind when i banned Dorje Shugden. It would be the last thing he would say i.e. he supports this theory because it would weaken the ban and the whole picture - bigger and smaller.
If your understanding of the actions of a Public Lama allows all that, then so be it - but do not come here to tell us about it.
HHDL has made it very clear that he does not want disciples who do associate with ruffians like us. Any student of HHDL should respect his wishes on this issue.
HHDL has made it very clear that he does not want disciples who do associate with ruffians like us. Any student of HHDL should respect his wishes on this issue.
There's a difference between associating, and reading. I can read the Bible but not agree with it, or associate with the teachings.
Likewise, having faith and having respect are two different things. I respect the Dalai Lama for how he's brought Buddha's teachings into many people's living rooms. Maybe he's got a bigger picture, maybe he hasn't but my faith lies in my root guru. So yes, the point of this thread isn't about what we want...but what do we care about what the Dalai Lama thinks? If he's not our guru (and I'm going to assume that for many people active on this forum, he isn't!), what does his opinion of us have to do with our samaya? Surely our samaya is with our root guru. Personally speaking, I don't mind if the Dalai Lama despises me. Opinions are impermanent, as is everything else in samsara.
HHDL has made it very clear that he does not want disciples who do associate with ruffians like us. Any student of HHDL should respect his wishes on this issue.
There's a difference between associating, and reading. I can read the Bible but not agree with it, or associate with the teachings.
Likewise, having faith and having respect are two different things. I respect the Dalai Lama for how he's brought Buddha's teachings into many people's living rooms. Maybe he's got a bigger picture, maybe he hasn't but my faith lies in my root guru. So yes, the point of this thread isn't about what we want...but what do we care about what the Dalai Lama thinks? If he's not our guru (and I'm going to assume that for many people active on this forum, he isn't!), what does his opinion of us have to do with our samaya? Surely our samaya is with our root guru. Personally speaking, I don't mind if the Dalai Lama despises me. Opinions are impermanent, as is everything else in samsara.
I think it was directed at people who do have a samaya with the DL DharmaDefender... :)
The point about this thread is not what WE as forum members want, but what the Dalai Lama would think of those of you who have faith in him polluting your minds and breaking your samaya by hanging out with us fascist Dorje Shugden practitioners.
Yes, sometimes it is much easier and more convenient to tag all the blame onto someone else or something else. Of course, that always makes us feel much better when we can place all our angst and grief onto someone else. It removes our own role/responsibility in the whole deal. Bearing in mind, this role and responsibility could have stemmed from many lifetimes ago, and not just this.