dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: hope rainbow on August 03, 2010, 04:43:37 AM
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Quotation from:
Dalai Lama - Dorje Shugden by Helmut Gassner
Hamburg, on March 26th 1999
Full text can be found at:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/articles/HelmutGassner01.pdf
(QUOTE)
After Geshe Rabten escaped from Tibet, the Dalai Lama chose him and Lati Rinpoche from among a select group of candidates to become one of his advisers on philosophical issues.
Upon the Dalai Lama's express wish, Geshe came to Switzerland as Abbot of Rikon Monastery, near Winterthur.
After I graduated from the Institute of Technology, I moved to Rikon to learn Tibetan and to study Buddhist philosophy, debate and meditation under Geshe's guidance.
In 1978, Geshe Rabten was invited by a group of Geshe Zopa, a Tibetan who teaches at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, and to my great joy, I was allowed to accompany Geshe.
At that conference there was another most impressive Lama from India, Zong Rinpoche, also giving teachings and initiations.
It was from him I received, together with two other people, Dorje Shugden empowerment.
I had never heard of Dorje Shugden before, even though I was studying Buddhism intensively and making good progress with my Tibetan.
After the empowerment, Geshe gave us some words of advice.
He said, "This manifestation of the Buddha has no equal. If you are determined to tame your mind, then he will even give you his heart in order to help you."
(END OF QUOTE)
See this link for more biographic info on Geshe Rabten.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/articles/GesheRabtenRinpoche.pdf
I have extracted the following from the above link:
(QUOTE)
When Geshe passed away in 1986, his pupils were able to experience the extraordinary signs of a complete master passing away.
During the months after his death, many students had the feeling that during their meditation Geshe was unusually close to them.
Three years later, Gonsar Rinpoche, Geshe’s dearest and closest pupil discovered Geshe's incarnation, who, through various unconnected sources, amongst whom was the Dalai Lama, was confirmed to be the righteous incarnation.
(END OF QUOTE)
From the above, I have a few observations:
1.Geshe Rabten was a practitioner of Dorje Shugden
2.Yet, he re-incarnated as a Rinpoche, proving wrong the affirmation that Dorje Shugden is a demon (someone that worships a demon creates the causes for re-birth as a hell-being, and animal or a ghost, certainly not as a Rinpoche)
3.What’s more, his current incarnation was re-cognized by His Holiness The Dalai Lama!
This is yet another case of a high lama that has, in his previous incarnation, recognized Dorje Shugden as a Buddha and Dharma protector and as a valid object of refuge.
Geshe Rabten has re-incarnated and is now in his twenties.
These young lamas will become the important teachers in the near future when Dorje Shugden will be regarded as THE Dharma Protector for not only the Gelugpas, but for all spiritual practioners.
This is truly a Buddhist renaissance at our doorstep! We just need to open our eyes to see it.
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What a wonderful post. Geshe Rabten is a great master of the highest calibre. His many deeds and works as in his bio is EXTREMELY INSPIRING.
I thank you so much for this beautiful post. Another great lama who practiced Dorje Shugden his whole life and had great attainments.
So many great lamas cannot be wrong regarding Dorje Shugden. Impossible they can be wrong.
TK
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Today is an incredible day. I have read two wonderful stories on this forum - first on Geshe Tsultim Gyeltsen (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=870.0) and now Geshe Rabten.
So many Masters who are or have been Dorje Shugden practitioners are so highly attained, and exhibit so many wonderful qualities in their life. Even in their passing into clear light and return again to benefit others, they are completely inspirational and without fault.
To me, these Lamas are 100% proof that Dorje Shugden practice is pure and faultless.
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Wonderful stuff, these stories about the lamas never fail to inspire.
I think one thing we can definitely do to share the incredible lineage of Dorje Shugden with the world is to promote and bring awareness to the amazing works of these teachers.
The Dalai Lama will pass away one day and there will definitely be a void – what happens to Tibetan Buddhism as we know it then? And more importantly, what happens to the ban then? We can start to prepare now by bringing greatness into the world through these teachers, encourage people to find their own qualified teachers and begin Dharma practice of a pure, broken lineage.
The ds website has a host of fantastic biographies of many, many Lamas known not just for their practice of DS but for their incredible contribution to Dharma, worldwide. Check it out here and be inspired!
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?cat=13
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The Dalai Lama will pass away one day and there will definitely be a void – what happens to Tibetan Buddhism as we know it then? And more importantly, what happens to the ban then? We can start to prepare now by bringing greatness into the world through these teachers, encourage people to find their own qualified teachers and begin Dharma practice of a pure, broken lineage.
The ds website has a host of fantastic biographies of many, many Lamas known not just for their practice of DS but for their incredible contribution to Dharma, worldwide. Check it out here and be inspired!
[url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?cat=13[/url]
I fully agree with HD, with all due respect, HH 14th Dalai Lama will pass away one day, who will then be able to fill in the void? Who will be able to spread and teach the dharma?
The task will falls on the shoulders of all these incarnated high lamas and who are also Shugden pratitioners. (pls refer to their bio in www.dorjeshugden.com)
With the current publicity of DS, more people will get to know about this powerful protector. More people will be able to benefit and blessed! by DS.
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Geshe Rabten is one of Lama Yeshe's teacher.
Both Geshe Rabten and Lama Yeshe are back!
Lama Yeshe's current incarnation, Tenzin Osel was recognized by non other than HH 14th Dalai Lama in 1986 the same year Geshe Rabten went into clear light. Do notice that this was in the midst of the ban which TGIE and Dalai Lama imposed on Dorje Shugden practitioners.
If Dalai Lama's wish is to stop Dorje Shugden's practices, then why recognise reincarnated Dorje Shugden practitioners?
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3.What’s more, his current incarnation was re-cognized by His Holiness The Dalai Lama!
Isn't that just very amazing? Many of the highest DS Lamas have been recognised or their incarnations acknowledged by the Dalai Lama. And the even more amazing fact? These DS Lamas were also recognised by Dorje Shugden. Often, they are recognised first by Dorje Shugden and then later their incarnations acknowledged by Dalai Lama.
So who is right? or wrong? or are they both right? :p
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So who is right? or wrong? or are they both right? :p
Hey darlinghoney, haven't you already noticed, that it does not matter. I just looked on the facebook, and it was not pretty. So, in my view, all we can do is to proclaim the truth, for nothing else matters,.Even here. All discussion has been swamped, as any discussion necessarily shows HHDL to be something else than a Bodhisattva. So even here, you are surrounded by the Big Brother. If you dig it, then take it. If you do not dig it, voice your voice. Start here. Many did.
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The new incarnation of Khensur Geshe Lobsang Tharchin has also been recognised by the Dalai Lama... read it here:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=894.0
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If Dalai Lama's wish is to stop Dorje Shugden's practices, then why recognise reincarnated Dorje Shugden practitioners?
haha! this is the big puzzle!
by recognising reincarnated dorje shugden practitioners, DL is going against his own logic! Because if ds was a demon or a spirit who could harm us, then why didn't he harm these practitioners? why are they back here on earth, shiny and luminous and wise as ever to bring us the dharma!!
i think the dalai lama is leaving us little loopholes and hints like hansel and gretel breadcrumbs in the forest!
yours, an amused beggar
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If Dalai Lama's wish is to stop Dorje Shugden's practices, then why recognise reincarnated Dorje Shugden practitioners?
haha! this is the big puzzle!
by recognising reincarnated dorje shugden practitioners, DL is going against his own logic! Because if ds was a demon or a spirit who could harm us, then why didn't he harm these practitioners? why are they back here on earth, shiny and luminous and wise as ever to bring us the dharma!!
i think the dalai lama is leaving us little loopholes and hints like hansel and gretel breadcrumbs in the forest!
yours, an amused beggar
Anyone with clean Guru samaya should be able to understand this.
Anyone who has experienced directly how a Guru makes his students think 'out of the box' should be able to understand this.
If one stills sees conflict and contradicion, then why is it so?
Is your mind a mind of doubt or a mind of faith?
1. if it is doubt, use it as a tool to question, debate and validate the teachings by logic. Having doubts denotes of intelligence.
2. if it is faith, just spread your wings!
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Reading about these great spiritual Masters always give me goosebumps! They are such inspirations: dedicating their life to keep the Dharma intact for the benefit of all sentient beings. Their continuous return to us lifetime after lifetime to continue pure Dharma work show the consistent commitment of these highly attained Gurus to the Dharma and sentient beings. I feel to extremely fortunate and grateful to their kindness and generosity.
It is really powerful that more and more information about highly attained Dorje Shugden practitioner, i.e. these great Lamas, are being shared in this forum and in the Dorje Shugden website. Such factual information that are based on tangible results supports the swift and evident benefits of our Protetor's practice and worship.
Similarly, due to our own karma, we do not have the opportunity to see or receive Dharma teachings directly from the Buddhas. Therefore, the Sangha community is the only available link we have to the Buddha and Dharma. Therefore, it is vital that we crate the cause for our kind Gurus to stay with us and continue to spread pure Dharma teachings so that we will have the merit to receive Maitreya Buddha when the time comes!
Once again, thank you forum participants and posters.
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Geshe Rabten is one of Lama Yeshe's teacher.
Both Geshe Rabten and Lama Yeshe are back!
Lama Yeshe current incarnation, Tenzin Osel was recognized by non other than HH 14th Dalai Lama in 1986 the same year Geshe Rabten went into clear light. Do notice that this was in the midst of the ban which TGIE and Dalai Lama imposed on Dorje Shugden practitioners.
If Dalai Lama's wish is to stop Dorje Shugden's practices, then why recognise reincarnated Dorje Shugden practitioners?
Makes alot of sense what you say. Dalai Lama does recognize many tulkus who practiced dorje Shugden in their previous lives. Good way of looking at it.
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Geshe Rabten is one of Lama Yeshe's teacher.
Both Geshe Rabten and Lama Yeshe are back!
Lama Yeshe current incarnation, Tenzin Osel was recognized by non other than HH 14th Dalai Lama in 1986 the same year Geshe Rabten went into clear light. Do notice that this was in the midst of the ban which TGIE and Dalai Lama imposed on Dorje Shugden practitioners.
If Dalai Lama's wish is to stop Dorje Shugden's practices, then why recognise reincarnated Dorje Shugden practitioners?
Sad, Lama Osel went away from FPMT when the students followed the ban, and didn't follow their guru Lama Yeshe's advice to practise Dorje Shugden. I understand the bind that Lama Zopa and his students find themselves in - their hundreds of centres would face difficulties if they lost the support of the Tibetan government, and it might rob hundreds of people the opportunity to meet the Dharma, but it's sad they had to lose their founder and root guru in the process. I don't know if it was necessary.
The Dalai Lama's recognition also contradicts the very basis of the ban - Dorje Shugden is a spirit so how do spirit worshippers reincarnate as high lamas recognised by the Dalai Lama?
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If Dalai Lama's wish is to stop Dorje Shugden's practices, then why recognise reincarnated Dorje Shugden practitioners?
Dear DS Friend, I really liked what you wrote.
If HHDL recognise all these reincarnated DS Lamas and practitioners, then it validates that DS is not an evil spirit and those who practises DS do not go into the three lower realms.
What a beautiful and empowering way of looking at it.
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I was just browsing through the dorjeshugden.com main site and found a gem in the gallery (I love this site!):
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/gallery08.htm
There are pictures of Geshe Rabten's new incarnation and there's a picture of the boy having his first "haircut" by HH Dalai Lama, in 1991.
This and recognitions by the Dalai Lama of Dorje Shugden practitioners underlines what DSFriend says earlier
If Dalai Lama's wish is to stop Dorje Shugden's practices, then why recognise reincarnated Dorje Shugden practitioners?
This is one of the many inconsistencies which supports my belief in the 'bigger picture' theory, that HH the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden are working together....
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Sad, Lama Osel went away from FPMT when the students followed the ban, and didn't follow their guru Lama Yeshe's advice to practise Dorje Shugden. I understand the bind that Lama Zopa and his students find themselves in - their hundreds of centres would face difficulties if they lost the support of the Tibetan government, and it might rob hundreds of people the opportunity to meet the Dharma, but it's sad they had to lose their founder and root guru in the process. I don't know if it was necessary.
i think it was not so much the fact that FPMT decided not to continue their practice publically (who knows, they may still be doing the practices quietly...). However, (and this is with no disrespect intended towards Lama Zopa), I have heard that it is not the centres or organisation that is causing problems but that students within this organisation have taken political stances towards the DS issue and have openly criticised other DS practitioners or centres, or even damaged the works of DS Lamas.
Much of this is what I have heard so I cannot be sure of the validity of these claims, but I imagine that this kind of action may be what also contributes largely to losing their lama. After all, the karma of criticising other Lamas or Dharma centres is that you yourself cannot be close to a qualified lama or receive the teachings to practice, so this would make sense.
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i think it was not so much the fact that FPMT decided not to continue their practice publically (who knows, they may still be doing the practices quietly...). However, (and this is with no disrespect intended towards Lama Zopa), I have heard that it is not the centres or organisation that is causing problems but that students within this organisation have taken political stances towards the DS issue and have openly criticised other DS practitioners or centres, or even damaged the works of DS Lamas.
Much of this is what I have heard so I cannot be sure of the validity of these claims, but I imagine that this kind of action may be what also contributes largely to losing their lama. After all, the karma of criticising other Lamas or Dharma centres is that you yourself cannot be close to a qualified lama or receive the teachings to practice, so this would make sense.
Hi HoneyD,
I'm just curious - if the students within a Dharma organisation are criticising other lamas or being political, wouldn't the Guru tell them to stop? Or do you think the Guru would tell them to stop but the students don't listen, though I am rather skeptical of this premise, because the Tibetan tradition emphasises so much on the Guru-student relationship that I don't think the students would so openly disobey.
Actually, when you say that it is not the centre or organisation but the students, wouldn't the students make up the organisation or the centre?
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Hi WisdomBeing, that is a good question. May I humbly share my thoughts?
I believe that Dharma organizations and centers are set up for the students by our kind Gurus. However, for it to be sustainable and grow, the students have to start managing and operating these organizations. Eventually, it reaches a stage where the centers are set up for Dharma students by Dharma students.
We are all far from being enlightened and we are living in an ever more potent samsara (as HoneyDakini pointed in her thread titled: An emanation of wisdom and counter to the selfish mind). Additionally, we may even have the negative karma to break Guru samaya! Therefore, sometimes some students may not be able to do as their Guru request.
This is very sad and I used to wonder: “how can this happen when someone is so close to the Dharma?”. With the patient and kind explanation from my Dharma brothers and sisters above, I am coming to term with this while continuing to work hard to overcome my shortcomings and do my best to keep clean Guru samaya.
I hope my sharing brought value and still excited to hear HoneyDakini’s respond.
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Hi HoneyD,
I'm just curious - if the students within a Dharma organisation are criticising other lamas or being political, wouldn't the Guru tell them to stop? Or do you think the Guru would tell them to stop but the students don't listen, though I am rather skeptical of this premise, because the Tibetan tradition emphasises so much on the Guru-student relationship that I don't think the students would so openly disobey.
Actually, when you say that it is not the centre or organisation but the students, wouldn't the students make up the organisation or the centre?
I don't think the guru would have to tell the students to stop, if the students were following their vows properly. Just saying because I find the whole situation a little ironic sometimes - why even take a guru, when your actions demonstrate that you believe you know better than the guru.
The students make up the organisation but some people shout louder than others, I guess. My stance still stands that it's the bad apples who spoil things for everyone. And when those bad apples affect well-meaning students and cause them to leave, those students leave hurt and angry. And then they start speaking openly and criticising...so directly and indirectly, the bad apples destroy the Dharma, by:
1) creating the causes for others to be away from the Dharma thereby
2) creating the causes for themselves to be away from the Dharma - after all, how Dharmic are their actions already? If their actions are already un-Dharmic, then they are already away from the Dharma
Funny eh, how things work out!
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Does anyone know of the whereabouts of the current incarnation of Geshe Rabten?
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Switzerland
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Rabten Tulku Rinpoche
When Geshe passed away in 1986, his pupils were able to experience the extraordinary signs of a complete master passing away. During the months after his death, many students had the feeling that during their meditation Geshe was unusually close to them. Three years later, Gonsar Rinpoche, Geshe’s dearest and closest pupil discovered Geshe's incarnation, who, through various unconnected sources, amongst whom was the Dalai Lama, was confirmed to be the righteous incarnation.
In the spring of 1998 the ten year old Rabten Rinpoche gave his first teaching in front of a group of two hundred people in the monastery Rabten Choeling at the lake of Geneva. Unexpectedly and unprepared the young Rinpoche gave people advice on taking refuge. He spoke in the clear manner and way of impressing people, which had been Geshe Rabten’s own special way. The listeners were deeply moved and many of Geshe Rabten's former students had tears in their eyes.
The memory of Geshe through his incarnation, who even in his young years already showed clear traits of a great master makes one believe that there is nothing more precious that could be given to one in this life even if one were to meet the enlightened Buddha in person.
source: http://www.rabten.at/RabtenRinpoche_CHen.htm (http://www.rabten.at/RabtenRinpoche_CHen.htm)
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Something interesting to note. This current incarnation of Geshe Rabten was recognized by both the 14th Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden.
Current Rabten Rinpoche resides and studies with Most Ven. Gonsar Rinpoche in Switzerland. Previous Geshe Rabten and the current incarnation are strong practitioners of Dorje Shugden as is Gonsar Rinpoche till this day. Gonsar Rinpoche and Rabten Rinpoche no longer attend any of Dalai Lama's gatherings as they are not allowed to due to not renouncing Dorje Shugden.
The Dalai Lama had very close relations with Geshe Rabten knowing of Geshe Rabten's strong practice of Shugden. All changed when the ban took place.
The previous Geshe Rabten was a student of Trijang Rinpoche and highly devoted.
Photos
Rabten Rinpoche
Geshe Rabten with Dalai Lama
Geshe Rabten, Dalai Lama and Gonsar Rinpoche
Geshe Rabten with his illustrious master Trijang Dorje Chang
Gonsar Rinpoche
Dalai Lama recognizing the young Rabten Rinpoche before the ban
Geshe Rabten assisting Trijang Dorje Chang
Young current Trijang Rinpoche meeting the young Rabten Rinpoche
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Thank you for sharing this information about Geshe Rabten.
I think it is interesting that Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition (FPMT) has a page on Geshe Rabten on their website as one of Lama Zopa's teachers though he was renowned as a Shugden practitioner. Why would FPMT want to acknowledge a Shugden lama as one of Lama Zopa's teachers? Shouldn't they hush it up?
Here is the information on Geshe Rabten's previous life as posted on FPMT's website:
http://www.fpmt.org/teachers/lineage-lamas/493-rabten.html (http://www.fpmt.org/teachers/lineage-lamas/493-rabten.html)
Geshe Rabten Rinpoche (1920-1986)
Geshe Rabten was born in Tibet in 1920. He spent twenty years first studying and then teaching at Sera Monastic University in Lhasa, until his exile in 1959. Upon completion of his training in India he was appointed as a religious assistant to the Dalai Lama. He also spent many years in solitary retreat, and wrote the book Song of the Profound View about his meditation experiences.
Since 1969, Geshe Rabten instructed Western students on Tibetan Buddhism. He was one of the first Tibetan Buddhist masters to give teachings in the West, and was one of the principle gurus of Lama Thubten Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche. He founded Tharpa Choeling Center for Higher Buddhist Studies in Switzerland in 1979 and resided there as a full-time spiritual director before he passed away in 1986.