dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: indolent1 on April 04, 2010, 10:23:59 PM
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Hi,
It's been a few months now since the Ganden Trisur came out as a Dorje Shugden practitioner.
I no longer follow the internet squabbling and have lost touch with all my pro DL friends who no longer want to associate with evil people like me.
So, I was wondering what impact the Ganden Trisur's actions have had on the pro-DL lobby. Anyone got any stories to share?
Thanks,
lazybones
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that's an interesting question.
I have heard frequently that Dalai Lama still meets very cordially with Trijang Rinpoche for discussion and even just casual talks - does anyone know more about this? (I wonder what they talk about when they meet!)
Also, yes, if anyone has more information on how the DL "side" has responded at all towards Gaden Trisur and other lamas of Gaden moving to Shar Gaden, please do share. Otherwise, it seems that they (the TGIE etc) have remained awfully quiet on the subject? (then again, I suppose there's not much they *can* say, can they? They certainly can't stop them.)
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I do not know much "news" about the impact Ganden Trisur's open practice of Dorje Shugden has on the lobby. However, this incident has a huge constructive impact on Dharma practice and faith of many Dharma friends.
Ganden Tridur’s move also seem to start the ball rolling for further growth of Dorje Shugden practice: H.H recently accepted to teach in Shar Ganden Monastery. Having such a renowned Dharma Master openly give Dorje Shugden teaching will bring our Protector’s practice to a higher level of legitimacy and acknowledgement. There is also more media coverage about activities in monasteries that practice Dorje Shugden since this announcement (on YouTube and other Dharma sites).
In general, there is a lot of faith (from sharing in thread titled: HH Gaden Trisur accepted to give teachings in Shar Gaden!) that Dorje Shugden practice will gain greater growth and recognition and acceptance following Ganden Trisur’s move.
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So far the Tibetan govt and the monasteries have remained quiet on Gaden Trisur Rinpoche joining Shar Gaden Monastery. In fact, strangely enough even up till today his throne still remains in Gaden Monastery intact. It should have been removed as Gaden, Sera and Drepung are not allowed to have any association with anyone connected to Shugden.
I thought I would wait a few months when the dust settles to see what the Tibetan Govt would do, but surprisingly nothing.
Mana
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There was that rumour awhile back that the TGIE wanted to excommunicate HH Gaden Trisur and remove his title even but I'm glad that so far that is all it is - rumours and idle chatter. And I hope it only remains a rumour.
The fact that the TGIE have remained mum on this matter gives great credence to the respect HH Gaden Trisur is held. I think the bad press of the previous HEAD of the Gelugpa lineage being excommunicated would be quite damaging to Tibetan Buddhism in general - the fact that the previous HEAD of the Gelugpa lineage choosing to defy the Dalai Lama's edict to ban Dorje Shugden practice would be quite newsworthy should the TGIE wish to make a big deal out of it, but so far, not a squeak.
We live in interesting times, don't we.
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There was that rumour awhile back that the TGIE wanted to excommunicate HH Gaden Trisur and remove his title even but I'm glad that so far that is all it is - rumours and idle chatter. And I hope it only remains a rumour.
The fact that the TGIE have remained mum on this matter gives great credence to the respect HH Gaden Trisur is held. I think the bad press of the previous HEAD of the Gelugpa lineage being excommunicated would be quite damaging to Tibetan Buddhism in general - the fact that the previous HEAD of the Gelugpa lineage choosing to defy the Dalai Lama's edict to ban Dorje Shugden practice would be quite newsworthy should the TGIE wish to make a big deal out of it, but so far, not a squeak.
We live in interesting times, don't we.
It makes sense what you say. The bad press of ex-communicating a Gaden Trisur, would not make TGIE look good at all. It didn't occur to me this way, but now that I read and think further, it's logical.
Not to forget that such a senior, high and esteemed lama who wishes not to follow the Dalai Lama's ban on Shugden. I mean, how can the Gaden Trisur Rinpoche be wrong. He is the highest lama of Gelugpa School of Buddhism. Even more senior than the current Gaden Tripa. He represents Tsongkapa on earth. If that being the case, which it is, HOW CAN HE BE WRONG TO WORSHIP SHUGDEN WHO TGIE LABELLED A SPIRIT??? It makes the ban look silly and illogical. So the Tibetan Govt does not say anything or highlight the fact, Gaden Trisur joined Shar Gaden. It does not look good for them in any way.
Gaden Trisur Rinpoche could not be wrong or be mistaken. He is a great master and scholar, so if he worships Shugden, TGIE looks wrong. Yes, the Tibetan Govt in Exile (TGIE) looks wrong and ARE WRONG IN THEIR BAN.
After all, the Gaden Tripas are the actual head of the Gelugpas.
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The fact that TGIE remains quiet for so long with HH Gaden Trisur Rinpoche jumping ship to Shar Gaden could set trends for any lamas who may have the courage to do the same in the future. They do not have to worry about excommunication from the community. This could be good news.
There are already so many great masters associated with Shar Gaden, namely, Kyabje Phabongka Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang, Kyabje Zong Rinpoche, Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche, HH Kyabje Trijang Chogtrul Rinpoche, Kyabje Gaden Trisur Rinpoche, Ven Domo Gashe Choktrul Rinpoche, Kyabje Geshe Thubten Trinley Rinpoche, Ven Khen Rinpoche, how wrong can they all be with Dorje Shugden??? They are all great lineage masters, and all of them are highly attained.
For sure, I can see Dorje Shugden's practice will continue to grow strong with the all the strong Dorje Shugden devotees.
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It's not surprising that the TGIE remained quiet about HH Gaden Trisur defecting to Shar Gaden and openly practise DS. TGIE knows very well that if they ex-communicated Gaden Trisur and removed his throne from his monastery, it would be super big news throughout the world. However, they didn't dare do it because they knew that many people would begin to doubt the legitimacy of their claim that DS is a demon for Gaden Trisur has too much credibility. Bottom line is that they did not want to risk the bad publicity of denouncing someone whom people have so much confidence in.
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Also, Gaden Trisur was the head of the Guleg school, he is seen as Tsongkhapa on earth, if his throne is being removed, it is like the monks in Gaden removing the throne of Tsongkhapa.......so that looks really crazy and ridiculous, isn't it?
I really hope TGIE and the monks in Gaden, Sera and Drepung will slowly realise the contradiction in the DS ban. It really does not make any sense at all.
Perhaps many have , they just do not dare to speak up, fearing for any excommunication and left with no help and support. My wildest wish is that one fine day, HH Dalai Lama would tell all the monks to repair the broken samaya with Dorje Shugden, and like the great fifth, make an open apology to King Dorje Shugden.
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So far the Tibetan govt and the monasteries have remained quiet on Gaden Trisur Rinpoche joining Shar Gaden Monastery. In fact, strangely enough even up till today his throne still remains in Gaden Monastery intact. It should have been removed as Gaden, Sera and Drepung are not allowed to have any association with anyone connected to Shugden.
I thought I would wait a few months when the dust settles to see what the Tibetan Govt would do, but surprisingly nothing.
Mana
Real good that nothing has been done to Gaden Trisur Rinpoche. Removing the throne will just highlight TGIE's silliness and illogical implementations,.. Perhaps this method is what TGIE will opt to take towards the ban, that they will continue to stay quiet and eventually, the ban is forgotten.. I hope so!
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In the meantime, there was a long life puja done for His Holiness Trisur Rinpoche in his centre, Thar Deu Ling in France. It was attended by about 30 monks from India, Italy and Switzerland.
It's very auspicious as His Holiness Trisur Rinpoche attended the puja, indicating his acceptance to remain a long time. We really need great scholars and masters of great calibre like Trisur Rinpoche to be the leaders in the Shugden monasteries during this time of great controversy. And of course, who else better than the crème de la crème of Gelugpa lineage, the Gaden Tripa (now Trisur) himself.
This long life puja was done on Sunday, June 12.
Two links for pictures below:
Long life puja: http://www.thardeuling.com/IMG/jpg/DSC00776red.jpg (http://www.thardeuling.com/IMG/jpg/DSC00776red.jpg)
Gaden Trisur: http://www.thardeuling.com/IMG/jpg/DSC00778red.jpg (http://www.thardeuling.com/IMG/jpg/DSC00778red.jpg)
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Every great Gelugpa Lama is/was a Shugden practitioner. Full stop. So either people are doing their practice quietly or have given up (though i doubt it because all great Lamas would not give up a practice given by their Gurus... maybe the Dalai Lama is still quietly propitiating Shugden!!), either way, each great teacher would have had their lives touched by Dorje Shugden, and perhaps that is why the Gelugpa tradition is the fastest growing tradition in the world today.
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How funny after all the "whoo haa" about Lamas who practice Dorje Shugden are wrong and will take a lower rebirth... we see "Lama Tsongkhapa on earth" H.H. Trisur Rinpoche moving in to Shar Gaden... yet no comments from the TGIE nor removal of his throne from Gaden??? H.H. Trisur Rinpoche must be so highly revered and pure that it is not so easy to remove his throne without being noticed and this will definitely invite huge criticism and uproar.
But for whatever it is H.H. Trisur Rinpoche has made a very clear and strong statement from his move... that is to remain true to our Gurus, and the practices our Guru gave us which should surpass political personal agendas.
May H.H. Trisur Rinpoche live long and continue to turn the wheel of Dharma!
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Why would TGIE want to bring attention to Gaden Trisur Rinpoche?
He is a highly attained being
Who holds a Geshe Lharampa degree
Which signifies great learning and mastery of the teachings of Lord Buddha
Who was the Abbot of Gyuto Tantric College in 1983
And the Abbot of Gaden Shartse Monastery in 1992
Who ascended to the throne of Sharpa Choeje in 1995
Who was personally selected by HH the 14 Dalai Lama in 2003
to ascend the throne of the Gaden Tripas
as the head of the Gelugpa lineage
and the representative of Tsongkhapa on earth.
Highly respected by the Dalai Lama and TGIE
until they found out he practises Dorje Shugden.
Strange isnt it? That educated, logical people (ie the TGIE and others) consider that his practice of DorjeShugden can undo a lifetime (probably lifetimes) of devotion to the Dharma and its spreading.
If they admitted he is wrong, and unholy etc, it would mean that all this time, TGIE had been wrong about him, and also His Holiness made the wrong choice...
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What i find very inspiring and note worthy is that the great Lamas like HH Gaden Trisur do not criticise HH the Dalai Lama. They don't give public interviews via the media and say that the Dalai Lama is bad for instituting the ban and that he is a liar etc. Trijang Rinpoche keeps a low profile and would rather be in lay clothes and practice quietly than to be embroiled in the controversy. These great beings simply quietly go about their practice and that's the best representation of Dharma as far as I'm concerned.
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Well said, Thor. If, despite the fact that Ganden Trisur Rinpoche had been a practitioner of Dorje Shugden all the while and yet had been selected by the Dalai Lama to be the Ganden Tripa, will the Dalai Lama now remove his throne in Ganden Monastery after he announced that he is a Shugden practitioner? Removing his throne is tantamount to saying that a mistake was made in selecting him as Gaden Tripa in 2003.
Furthermore, this great luminary and highly attained Master has spent his whole life spreading the Dharma of Je Tsongkapa earnestly and effectively, all the while with the help of the unmistakable Protector of Je Tsongkapa's teachings, Dorje Shugden. Is the great work of this great Lama to be discredited just because he is a Shugden practitioner?
It is heartwarming to know that the Abbot of Shar Gaden Monastery has travelled to France to perform long-life puja for Ganden Trisur Rinpoche and Jangtze Gyume Kensur Rinpoche , two great Masters of the Gelug tradition and both of whom are Shugden practitioners. May they both live long and continue to spread the Dharma of Je Tsongkapa for the benefit of all beings of this degenerate age, with the help of Dorje Shugden..
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Interesting that Gaden Shartse's webpage still has His Holiness the 101st Gaden Trisur Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal listed on the top of their 'Gurus' page! Very cool!!!!
.html]http://gadenshartsemonastery.org/Gurus%20[Teachers].html (http://gadenshartsemonastery.org/Gurus%20[Teachers)
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Interesting that Gaden Shartse's webpage still has His Holiness the 101st Gaden Trisur Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal listed on the top of their 'Gurus' page! Very cool!!!!
[url]http://gadenshartsemonastery.org/Gurus%20%5BTeachers%5D.html[/url] ([url]http://gadenshartsemonastery.org/Gurus%20%5BTeachers%5D.html[/url])
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Interesting that Gaden Shartse's webpage still has His Holiness the 101st Gaden Trisur Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal listed on the top of their 'Gurus' page! Very cool!!!!
http://gadenshartsemonastery.org/Gurus%20%5BTeachers%5D.html (http://gadenshartsemonastery.org/Gurus%20%5BTeachers%5D.html)
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Hi,
It's been a few months now since the Ganden Trisur came out as a Dorje Shugden practitioner.
I no longer follow the internet squabbling and have lost touch with all my pro DL friends who no longer want to associate with evil people like me.
So, I was wondering what impact the Ganden Trisur's actions have had on the pro-DL lobby. Anyone got any stories to share?
Thanks,
lazybones
I think losing touch with those people is a really good move as disturbing our minds with politics cannot be good at all. It is a waste of time and there is no conclusion to them. they usually use really underhanded methods to 'win' the argument or just completely shut you off when you try to reason out with them -- their minds are already closed so there is no point to try to talk to them.
as the saying goes: Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience
When HHDL lifts the ban, it would be fun to see where they will hide their faces or where they will stand hehe