dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: icy on September 17, 2014, 04:09:58 AM
-
When one studies the lineage masters of the Sakyapa one couldn’t help but marvel at the illustrious and super magnificent incarnations of these lineage masters who are none other than Dorje Shugden himself. The Sakyapas were coerced by CTA into abandoning DS practice since1996 at the start of the ban when it was enforced. Nonethless there are stalwarts in the Sakya tradition preserving and upholding the DS lineage while waiting for the precise moment to re-emerge and continue to spread their bloodline practice.
This extremely old and holy Dorje Shugden mask probably from the 19th century was found recently in an old Sakya temple in Shigatze. The Sakyapas there are still propitiating to Dorje Shugden as their protector deity.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10703726_800743723311601_2038113802651381172_n.jpg?oh=4f770ae27b7d22517405f805b4654750&oe=54968763&__gda__=1418280457_11671004783ee089b880d534083c4829)
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/dorje-shugden-on-a-black-horse/comment-page-1/#comment-196557 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/dorje-shugden-on-a-black-horse/comment-page-1/#comment-196557)
-
Dorje Shugden on a Black Horse (Tanag).
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10645009_800871603298813_7230793249705530977_n.jpg?oh=44e858aab6d89c2095d944eaba6dd58d&oe=5493E587&__gda__=1418158655_64991a6278ddd1f83e3a1376e5016d2c)
-
It is important we know how Dorje Shugden came intro the Gelug tradition.
Very grateful for the Sakyas to persevere it for us and themselves. Dorje Shugden practiced being suppressed we can see only the Gelugs are affected but there is more than meets the eye.
If one says that Dorje Shugden is a spirit, then the reputatlon of Sakya lamas are put in question as well.
-
If it weren't for the Sakya masters, tulkus and practitioners who preserved and protected the practice of Dorje Shugden, this illustrious practice will not be known in this day and age and populated by many due to its efficacy.
I do hope the Sakyapas will continue this powerful lineage even if they defy the Ban.
-
Look at this beautiful DS on the black horse, no doubts about it this protector is a fully enlightened protector because others lineage master also propitiate this protector for many century how can the CTA ban this holy practice this is really ridiculous .
-
And yet, they call this practice sectarian. Look at how beautiful this Sakyapa thangka of Dorje Shugden on a black horse is. This is definitely not a Gelug lineage. Wonder who is the confused one now.
For what it is worth, thanks to Dorje Shugden website for educating the masses. At least more and more people can make informed decisions and are not so easily mislead. Thanks for teaching the masses to be more discerning and be able to discern between hearsay and fact about all that is written and said.
-
Trijang Rinpoche is visiting this form of Dorje Shugden.
testing the link ->
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10202671482848574&set=o.302901443094886&type=2&theater (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10202671482848574&set=o.302901443094886&type=2&theater)
-
The video is on this Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/mglshugdenpa/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/mglshugdenpa/)
-
DharmaSpace, did you say this form? This is Dorje Shugden on Lion not Horse: (https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10710672_10202671203801598_886599316413823630_n.jpg?oh=740e16b98245aa4cf30b72d4b21e443c&oe=548543D4&__gda__=1422078047_1bbd7dcca9018dc9066f9519e0bb4acc)
-
The image of Dorje Shugden on a Black Horse is so stunning.
If it weren't for the Sakya tradition to preserve this, then this powerful practice will not be known to this day.
Let's hope the ban be lifted soon so the the Sakya and the Gelup tradition be able to practice openly and may the DS flourish.
-
We are truly fortunate that this precious and powerful practice was preserved by the Sakya tradition of great masters, tulkus and practitioners. Dorje Shugden on the black horse is truly magnificent. Glad to know that the Sakyapas are still propitiating Dorje Shugden as their protector deity.
-
such a wonderful Protector, looks magnificent on black horse. if it not for the Sakyapas, Dorje Shugden practice would not around, and spreading like wildfire now. We must thank the lineage master who have being steadfast in their DS practice and bring Dharma and blessing to sentient being around the world.
The Mask looks very real too, such an auspicious and bless item
-
As a newbie, I’m trying hard to understand the iconography and meanings behind as depicted in statues and thangkas. In one of the explanations found here in Dorje Shugden.com was The protector Dorje Shugden wearing a tiger boots signified that he appear as a mundane form to tread on this world.
In the photo on post #8, shows the protector was holding a Majushri’ like sword and bare footed.
Does only enlighten beings be depicted as “Bare footed” was to signified that they do not tread on samara no more? And in this aspect shows that he is Manjushri in nature but appear in wrathful form?
-
No expert here but doesn't this wrathful Manjushri look similar to the barefoot DS above? If so, doesn't it prove that DS is an enlightened being?
(http://www.noneedfortemples.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/S.H-Dalai-Lama.jpg)
-
I'm a dunce. Here is the photograph of the wrathful Manjushri:
(http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/images/3/3b/Yam_tue.jpg)
-
Blessed to see these pictures of Dorje Shugden and thank you for sharing the article and I get to know more about the Dorje Shugden practice in the Sakya lineage. From here, I could see that Dorje Shugden is practiced by Sakya high lamas and Sakya too. Some of the Sakya Trizins are also emanations of Dorje Shugden!
Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang’s ‘Music Delighting an Ocean of Protectors’ also quotes Kyabje Ling Dorje Chang’s previous incarnation, Losang Lungtog Tenzin Trinley’s recognition of Shakya Shri as a previous incarnation of Dorje Shugden. The incarnation lineage is said to be as follows:
Shakya Shri
Choku Ozer
Buton Rinchen Drub
Panchen Sonam Drub
Panchen Sonam Dragpa
Sonam Yeshe Wangpo
Sonam Geleg Pelsang
Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen
How could they deny this practice?
-
I'm a dunce.
Oh Yes you are!!LoL The protector deity shown in picture was Kalarupa. a universal protector for all Vajrayana Buddhist lineages and is the traditional Protector for the small Lamrim scope.
Here is the photograph of the wrathful Manjushri:
Emanation of Manjushri in terrifying form with his consort Tsamudi riding on a buffalo. His “ugliness” personifies enlightenment by the conquest of anger.
The “ugliness” he displayed reminds the practitioner of inner obstacle such as fear, anger and jealously..etc due to ignorance could more frightening from the result of negative karma they produces.
The whole from was on a lotus signified that these “ugliness” was arises out from deep compassion he had for sentient being.
-
In the beginning Dorje Shugden was seen by Pabongkha Rinpoche as a worldly deity who has to be controlled by tantric power, it is not clear when and how the view that he is an emanation of Manjushri appeared.
According to Lama Pabongkha’s view Drakpa Gyeltsen was an incarnation of Dorje Shugden but his death is not the cause of Dorje Shugden. He established a line of arguments arguing that Shugden has a very close connection to practitioners of Je Tsongkhapa’s tradition and is now their powerful protector and able to bestow blessings and create appropriate conditions for Dharma realisations to flourish.
To do this he established the idea that the original three protectors of Je Tsongkhapa’s tradition (Kalarupa, who was bound by Tsongkhapa himself, Vaisravana and Mahakala) have gone to their pure lands and have no power anymore because the Karma of the Gelug adepts has changed and they should now follow Shugden.
The three protectors of the Lamrim.
Kalarupa (Kamayama), protector of the small scope. Kalarupa is a wrathful emanation of Wisdom Buddha Manjushri, is a universal protector for all Vajrayana Buddhist lineages and is the traditional Protector for the small Lamrim scope.
(http://manjushritoronto.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/kalarupatheblackform_copy.jpg)
Vaishravana (Namtose), protector of the medium scope. Also known as the King of the North, he is yellow in color and carries a banner of victory in his right hand and a mongoose that vomits jewels in his left. Popularly known as God of Wealth.
(http://www.thangkas.com/thangka/Jambhala-CS4-Zentralfigur.jpg)
Six-armed Mahakala, protector of the highest scope. Mahakala, a wrathful deity, is considered to be the fierce and powerful emanation of Avalokiteshvara, the bodhisattva of compassion. This tutelary deity is one of the Dharmapalas in Vajrayana Buddhism who defend the Dharma from corruption and degeneration and from forces hostile to it; to keep the site of the ritual free from impure thoughts and actions; to guide and protect the individual practitioner from all kinds of deception and delusion; bestow the power to overcome life struggles; and to eliminate one’s obstacles and impediment that hinders.
(http://www.auktionsagenten.net/ebay_bilder/_thangkas/thangka-mahakala-1024-02.jpg)
-
Ringo,
Wow, what a wealth of misinformation you have been taught about Je Pabongkhapa! I would need some evidence that Je Pabongkhapa 'established the idea that Mahakala... etc. had gone to their purelands" and now was the time to rely on Shugden (yes the last bit, to rely on Shugden) but Mahakala is alive and well, thank you and you have a source? Because it sounds like someone's been feeding you DL BS.
2nd, during the time of Pabongkhapa, we have good evidence that he relied on Shugden as a Buddha, because you see, the practice came from Tushita Pure land.
7. The practice of Dorje Shugden was taught by Je Tsongkhapa in Tushita Pure Land
Dorje Shugden arose as the principal Protector of Je Tsongkhapa's doctrine over 300 years ago, at the time of the Fifth Dalai Lama, who composed the first verse of praise to him. However, the current system of empowerment and worship is more recent and comes from a great Lama called Tagpo Kelsang Khedrub Rinpoche. Lama Tagpo went to Tushita Pure Land where he met Je Tsongkhapa and requested a teaching. In response, Je Tsongkhapa lifted up the cloth covering the front of the golden throne on which he was sitting, and the five lineages of Dorje Shugden emerged. Dorje Shugden then transmitted the practice to Lama Tagpo, just as Maitreya had transmitted five major philosophical treatises to Asanga in Tushita Pure Land in earlier times.
Lama Tagpo later transmitted these instructions to Pabongkhapa Dechen Nyingpo, who passed them on to Trijang Dorjechang Losang Yeshe -- spiritual father and son. From Trijang Rinpoche, they passed to our present day Gelugpa Teachers.
http://www.dorjeshugden.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=734&catid=1&Itemid=30 (http://www.dorjeshugden.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=734&catid=1&Itemid=30)
If you are going to generally post statements about so and so (who is a Shugden person) didn't used to rely on him as a Buddha... etc., which turns out not to be true, okay, then you please need to start citing your source.
-
If you are going to generally post statements about so and so (who is a Shugden person) didn't used to rely on him as a Buddha... etc., which turns out not to be true, okay, then you please need to start citing your source.
Blueupali,
Thank you for the advice which I take seriously.
Here is the source: info-buddhism.com/dorje_shugden_controversy.html which itself quotes other sources.
I was researching (in English as I don't read Tibetan) the three protectors of the different Lamrim scopes when I encountered the above.
I was curious about the three Lamrim protectors because in combination, they bear uncanny resemblance to Dorje Shugden minus the tiger skin boots. In fact, there are some statues where Dorje Shugden does not wear tiger skin boots exposing feet and toenails akin to Kalarupa and Six-armed Mahakala's.
Hence, I was curious to pursue the line of argument that Dorje Shugden is today's protector of the Lamrim tradition from the point of view of iconography when I encountered the above article on the internet.
I have not managed to draw any conclusions from my research thus far and it just remains a curiosity.
-
Hi Ringo,
Thanks for the source info. I looked up the article, and I will advise that it's good to read more than one source, and also, that to me, this source that claims to be looking at both sides, is very biased toward the Dalai Lama's version, which is a version that tends to re-write history. So, for instance, we can took at language to see the bias, so I am just pointing this out, and feel free to cross-reference it, but the language speaks for itself. Consider an excerpt from the site talking about the terrible murder of monks. Please note, it says the Indian police believe.... etc.... but please understand the Indian police (kind of like the Mexican police) are very easily bought. Anyway, even though they never caught the people that they accuse of the murder, they act like we are guilty, rather than noting, as people from the west would, that no trial doesn't really imply guilt:
At the peak of the conflict, in February 1997, three Tibetan Buddhist monks, opponents of the Shugden practice, including the Dalai Lama’s close friend and confidant, seventy-year-old Lobsang Gyatso (the principal of the Institute of Buddhist Dialectics), were brutally murdered in Dharamasala, India, the Tibetan capital in exile. The murdered monks were repeatedly stabbed and cut up in a manner resembling a ritual exorcism. The Indian police believe the murders were carried out by monks loyal to Shugden, and that the perpetrators are now under the protection of the Chinese government.[42] The Indian police have accused Lobsang Chodak, 36, and Tenzin Chozin, 40, of stabbing Lobsang Gyatso and two of his students.[112] In 2007 Interpol has issued wanted notices for Lobsang Chodak and Tenzin Chozin.[112] According to a disciple of Geshe Lobsang Gyatso, before he was killed, Lobsang Gyatso had to face many death threats, but refused any personal security.[43] The Shugden Society in New Delhi denies any involvement in the murders or threats.[44] Kelsang Gyatso distanced himself: “Killing such a geshe and monks is very bad, it is horrible. How can Mahayana Buddhists who are always talking about compassion kill people? Impossible. There are many different possible explanations [for the murders]. There are many Shugden practitioners throughout the world, and each of them is responsible for his own actions. But definitely, we can say that these murders are very bad.”[45]
Also please not the author is saying, "Geshe Kelsang distanced himself...." distancing himself implies he was close to something, to what, the murders? Geshe-la would never harm anyone. Look, one of my first lamas was Shamar Rinpoche, who was recognized as a mind emanation of Buddha Amitaba, and found by the Karmapa (16th). He definately seemed like Amitaba or Marpa:) and anyway, I trust the 16th Karmapa. So, during the Karmapa controversy, some people on the Tai Situ's side made accusations (like Lea Therune) that Shamar Rinpoche was responsible for the death of another regent Jon Von Kontrontrul Rinpoche. I can assure you, there is no way Shamar Rinpoche would hurt anyone or order anyone's death. (He was very careful we didn't even order the death of a lobster by mistake a Chinese restaurant--- he used to tell the waiters no seafood when he and his followers would stop for lunch-- he said sometimes it's hard to understand if the seafood is still alive when we order it, so just don't order it!). To me that is completely nuts to say this Buddha emanation would harm anyone. Likewise, I it is insane to me to say that Geshe Kelsang would have to "distance himself" from the discussion of the murders.... if anyone had told him they wanted to murder someone I can assure you he would have forbade it in no uncertain terms and done everything in his power to warn the victims to escape. He is so gentle. And is Buddha Manjushri, and doesn't even eat meat in that emanation. So for me, it's like people that say these things, they are very brainwashed, and it's sad, because they are accusing holy beings of acts of terror and violence.
I don't like the actions of say, the Dalai Lama. However, I would never harm him! If someone has done something they shouldn't do (even if they murder someone) I say we don't harm them--- let them apply the 4 opponent powers (like generating real regret and doing Vajrasattva practice)--- if we would kill them then of course their karma will ripen without them purifying! How terrible and how against every teaching of Buddha.
So, it's hard out there, but my advise is cross reference and also look for bias in reporting. It can take awhile to figure out what is going on. Like me, everybody kept saying the DL went against Trijang Rinpoche but I really didn't know who was Trijang Rinpoche at first. So after awhile it started to make sense what they even were saying.... so just stay with all the Buddhas in your heart and remember it is all appearances and ask the Buddhas to guide you while you are working this out. It's a work in progress for everyone, understanding things and attaining enlightenment anyway:).
-
It is important that the tradition is preserved as because it is through preserving the tradition and culture that the next generation of practitioners are being able to continue to uphold the teachings and pass them on to another generation without contaminating them.