dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: WisdomBeing on March 21, 2014, 05:08:12 AM
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"All human beings are equal and capable. Discrimination on the basis of caste, religion or any other condition is a sinful act," the Dalai Lama said.
If so, does that mean that the Dorje Shugden ban is a sinful act? Or will the Dalai Lama say Dorje Shugden is not a religion? "A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence" - according to the definition in wikipedia. Therefore i would say that Dorje Shugden practice is a religion, even if the Dalai Lama wrongly accuses the worship to be a spirit worship, it is still defined as a religion therefore it should not be discriminated against?
SINFUL TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST LEPROSY PATIENTS: DALAI LAMA
http://www.in.com/news/current-affairs/sinful-to-discriminate-against-leprosy-patients-dalai-lama-52610506-in-1.html (http://www.in.com/news/current-affairs/sinful-to-discriminate-against-leprosy-patients-dalai-lama-52610506-in-1.html)
by ibn last updated on March 20, 2014 at 4:28 pm
New Delhi: Even though India has achieved the World Health Organisation's (WHO) elimination level for leprosy, the social stigma associated with the disease is still prevalent, Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama has said. "This is a physical condition like any other and people should not look down upon others. All human beings are equal and capable. Discrimination on the basis of caste, religion or any other condition is a sinful act," the Dalai Lama said during a visit to the Tahirpur Leprosy Complex.
The purpose of the visit was to boost the morales of leprosy patients and their families and help people overcome their prejudice against the affected. In 2005, a total of 1,34,752 cases were reported in India and new cases of leprosy were reported which was 58 per cent of the cases reported world-wide. The leading states where new cases were reported are Uttar Pradesh, West Bengal, Bihar, Maharashtra and Gujarat. "People who spend money on luxury are foolish. They should spend money for the needy. If you believe in God or Buddhism and spend your money on the needy you will accumulate good Karma," said the spiritual leader.
He pledged his help for leprosy-affected people and promised to donate Rs 10 lakh to the Kasturba Gram Kusht Ashram, Leprosy Complex in Tahirpur in Delhi. Over the next five years, royalties received by the trust from the sale of the books written by the spiritual leader will be donated to the Ashram. "A smiling man is always better than a rich and healthy man; because a smiling man has the confidence in him to smile and be happy in life," the spiritual leader said.
Leprosy, one of the oldest known diseases to mankind, is quite prevalent in India. However, through the efforts of individuals and various organisations, like Nippon Foundation, the eradication of the disease is not such a distant dream. "If the brain is functioning then the physical condition does not matter as, with your brain, you can solve problems and achieve a lot in life. "So, if your brain is functioning, you have the confidence which makes you smile," he said. From April, 2012, to March, 2013, 1.35 lakh new cases of leprosy were reported in the country, which gives an Annual New Case Detection Rate (ANCDR) of 10.78 per cent for every 100,000 population, an increase of 4.15 per cent over 2011-12, a National Leprosy Eradication Programme 2012-13 survey has found.
In Delhi, 1,252 new cases were detected in 2012-2013, the report said. "Thanks to the (central) and the state governments, we have been able to control the situation in India. We are visiting various states to bring the cases of leprosy down from where we are currently at," said Yohei Sasakawa, Chairman of the Nippon Foundation and WHO Goodwill Ambassador for Elimination of Leprosy. In India, there are about 850 colonies of which 31 are in Delhi. Serious human rights violations such as lack of education, employment opportunities, health facilities and basic amenities are reported in these colonies. "Our colonies face problems due to absence of basic amenities like proper sewage systems, street lighting. Neither are the homes which we stay in registered in our name. So, some day, government might throw out our families from here after we die. We have informed the government about our problems, but that has fallen on deaf ears," said Venu Gopal, a resident of Kasturba Gram Kusht Ashram. "According to government's survey in 1981, 2,600 leprosy- affected people were getting pension. Now, only 700 people are getting pension. "New patients of leprosy are not on the list as the survey has not been done. Former chief minister Sheila Dixit had in 2006 promised that a new survey will be done for leprosy-affected people, but nothing has been done yet," charged Giridhar Lal, in-charge of Hari Om Kusht Colony.
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The Dalai Lama is a clear specimen of the so-called ”Jekyll and Hyde personality”.
He furiously engages in relentless religious persecution while hidden from the Western public, but plays the supercool tolerant, peaceful saint while appearing in front of the same Western public.
His capacity to lie and deceive is immense, which may result from his two identities being unaware of each other and compartmentalized knowledge and memories, symptoms of the so-called ”dissociative personality disorder” or ”multiple personality disorder”, popularly known as schizophrenia.
Such morbid condition is often resultant of sexual abuse traumas, which is consistent with the extreme attachment shown by the Dalai Lama towards his first childhood tutor Reting, known for his sexual debauchery, and therefore possibly an homosexual pedophile as well, which is all the more likely in a corrupt monastic environment, be it Catholic or Buddhist, such as the old Tibet's Potala Palace.
Such psycopathic personalities are already dangerous in ordinary life, but are catastrophic when placed in positions of power and leadership. The fact that the Tibetan society in exile venerates, and allows itself to be ruled by, such a mentally diseased character shows the deeply corrupt, perverted nature of the old Tibet's medieval theocracy.
A Jekyll and Hyde personality describes someone with a double personality, each distinct and totally opposite. One side of a split personality may be amicable and easygoing, while the other side can be withdrawn or even violent. People with a borderline personality disorder or bipolar disorder are often described as being this type of person.
While people who are moody and volatile are often referred to as having a Jekyll and Hyde personality, some may be unfamiliar with the origin of the names Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. These fictional characters were created by famed Scottish author Robert Louis Stevenson sometime during the late 1800s. Stevenson's story was based on his own vivid recurring nightmares of living two contrasting lives.
The writer told a story of a scientist who developed a borderline personality after consuming a concoction he created. Stevenson depicted Dr. Jekyll as congenial and moral, while his alter-ego, Mr. Hyde, was wicked and immoral. The novel was later made into a movie in 1931, which became a classic. The characters' names became synonymous with a split personality, with one one side good and the other evil.
People with psychopathic tendencies often are described as having a Jekyll and Hyde personality. The side of Dr. Jekyll manifests as a kindhearted individual who lives an honest and respectable life. The dark side of Mr. Hyde is an explosive character who unleashes evil. Psychopaths who commit violent crimes often are described as being this type of person.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-jekyll-and-hyde-personality.htm (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-jekyll-and-hyde-personality.htm)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder)
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Dear Jspitanga
I understand your vitriol towards the Dalai Lama but could you share how you reconcile the fact that the Dalai Lama is beloved by so many? Perhaps the masses are ignorant but there are many high lamas who revere him and think of him as Chenrezig. Are these high lamas wrong? If the high lamas have this view, are they misguided? If they are misguided, does that mean they are not enlightened? If they are not enlightened, when others say they are, does that make everything they teach a farce? In fact, is everything a farce?
Perhaps it is and everything is merely illusion.
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Dear WisdomBeing, you say,
I understand your vitriol towards the Dalai Lama
If ”vitriol” is understood as a metaphor for the analysis which breaks apart widespread, but mistaken ideas, such as the sanctity of the Jekyll-and-Hyde double-personality psychopathic dalai, then I find it encouraging that you understand it.
but could you share how you reconcile the fact that the Dalai Lama is beloved by so many?
Split-personality psychopaths, such as the evil dalai, while showing their Dr. Jekyll side, are known for displaying an ”amicable, easygoing personality”, which is ”congenial and moral”, and thus ”manifest as a kindhearted individual who lives an honest and respectable life”. Small wonder thus that such psychopaths are beloved by so many, specifically by those who are deceived by the psychopaths' Dr. Jekyll side.
On the other hand, there are those who are well aware of the brutal, ruthless, Mr. Hyde side of the evil dalai, but still show favorable feelings towards him, which is also understandable as a case of identification with evil, or identification with the aggressor, which ”is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be a threat”.
This identification with the aggressor, by the way, seems to be at the very root of Abrahamic (Jewish, Christian, and Muslim) manipulation of fear. Abrahamic followers are well aware of the inconceivable cruelty, perversity, and brutality of their ”god”, which is the main topic of their scriptures, but still do ”love” such ”god”, and are thus convinced to adopt the same values as their putative aggressor.
During the European Middle Ages, the common people, the main victims of the assault perpetrated by the Catholic Church against human conscience, would deliriously rejoice in the burning at the stake of ”witches”, that is, of common people like them. Identifying with aggressor they felt safe. In the same way, identifying with the psychopathic, evil dalai, many Tibetans feel safe, and thus ”love” him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrom
Perhaps the masses are ignorant but there are many high lamas who revere him and think of him as Chenrezig.
It is difficult to know whom high lamas actually revere, and what they actually think. Therefore, we are left with the advice of the Buddha, to think with our own minds, on the basis of direct perception and reason. Anyway, there is no contradiction in thinking of a split-personality Jekyll and Hyde psychopath criminal as Chenrezig, in the same way that excrement is thought of as nectar, and so forth.
If the high lamas have this view, are they misguided? If they are misguided, does that mean they are not enlightened?
As above, it is difficult for us to fathom the view actually entertained by high, enlightened lamas. Meanwhile, for those such as ourselves who are still unenlightened, supporting evil through accomplicity with the misdeeds of the psychopathic, evil dalai, from defaming his root-gurus to sponsoring self-immolations to causing schism with the Sangha, is hardly a way to achieve the enlightened state.
Besides, as Pabongkha Rinpoche used to say, just because a dog may be a buddha, we are not supposed to imitate it, and start to walk on four legs. In the same way, just because the evil, psychopathic dalai may be a buddha, we are not supposed to show support to, and accomplicity with, his harmful actions, which would be the case if we would try to cover, sanction, and even sanctify, such misdeeds.
In fact, is everything a farce?
For non-Buddhas, everything except for emptinesses (or non-deceptive realities) is a farce, also known as deceptive reality.
Perhaps it is and everything is merely illusion.
Not exactly. Only the existent images of what does not exist are illusions. Other deceptive realities are contaminated by illusions, and thus deceptive, but are not illusions themselves. Once illusions, or impurities, are destroyed, through meditation on non-deceptive realities, or purities, other deceptive or impure realities become non-deceptive, or purified.
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"All human beings are equal and capable. Discrimination on the basis of caste, religion or any other condition is a sinful act," the Dalai Lama said.
Yes Dalai Lama, I totally agree with you and believe in the same thing. That is why I don't support the ban on Dorje Shugden. The atrocity suffered by Dorje Shugden practitioners due this ban is just not right. It's appalling, disgusting and a blemish to the practice of Buddhism.
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Dear Wisdom Being,
Thank you for this post, once again, pointing to great contradictions in the statements of His Holiness. On one hand, His Holiness is strongly against discrimination base on religion, on the other hand, he has single handedly created one of the biggest discrimination in the history of Tibetan Buddhism through enforcing the ban on the practise of Dorje Shugden. Imagine the karma accumulated in causing the suffering towards others...the monks, the lay people, high lamas...etc. But then again, His Holiness comes from a direct line of recognized incarnations and therefore, his actions must be based on something we cannot ordinarily perceive. His Holiness's recognition is official, and has been since the time of the 5th Dalai Lama. Therefore, if there is doubt on His Holiness's attainments and realizations, then the high lamas including Panchen Lama, who performed divination to recognize the current Dalai Lama would all be wrong too. And that would shake the foundation of the entire Tibetan Buddhist tradition. So that cannot be the case.
Therefore, since His Holiness is who he is, then whatever he is doing should arise from an enlightened mind. His works throughout his life has been benefiting mankind in more ways than one can describe so we cannot undermine or insult His Holiness through anger and hatred. However, we can appeal to His Holiness to stop the ban on Dorje Shugden, for if he is to practise what he preaches, then the ban on Dorje Shugden is invalid.
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"All human beings are equal and capable. Discrimination on the basis of caste, religion or any other condition is a sinful act"
Isn't the ban on Dorje Shugden practitioners a discrimination? Isn't this sinful?
Is there equality when Bon is accepted by His Holiness Dalai Lama but not Dorje Shugden?
Dorje Shugden practitioners are capable and very clear about their Buddhist refuge. They will not abandon Dorje Shugden even at the cost of their lives because Dorje Shugden is Buddha Manjushri. Dorje Shugden practitioners will not break their samayas with their gurus by not practising Dorje Shugden.
By banning Dorje Shugden, you are suppressing the religious freedom of Dorje Shugden practitioners and deepening the cause of no freedom for Tibet! It is the law of cause and effect that when you deprive others of their freedom, you shall experience the same. Furthermore, you are disparaging Buddha Manjushri by this ban. How very heavy negative karma that is!
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Why discriminate against Dorje Shugden practitioners when they haven't done any harm to others? We do not blame a person's harmful actions or faults based on religion, gender or race. Any human beings can make mistake. It doesn't make one's belief, one's gender or one's race, one will be free of faults. The world doesn't work like that. One may get away with holding the the thought so and so belief, gender or race acted this way or that way in the past but not in this age. As we have experience many times in human history from the past nothing good is going to come out by discrimination and much worst enslaving others.
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Split-personality psychopaths, such as the evil dalai, while showing their Dr. Jekyll side, are known for displaying an ”amicable, easygoing personality”, which is ”congenial and moral”, and thus ”manifest as a kindhearted individual who lives an honest and respectable life”. Small wonder thus that such psychopaths are beloved by so many, specifically by those who are deceived by the psychopaths' Dr. Jekyll side.
On the other hand, there are those who are well aware of the brutal, ruthless, Mr. Hyde side of the evil dalai, but still show favorable feelings towards him, which is also understandable as a case of identification with evil, or identification with the aggressor, which ”is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be a threat”.
This identification with the aggressor, by the way, seems to be at the very root of Abrahamic (Jewish, Christian, and Muslim) manipulation of fear. Abrahamic followers are well aware of the inconceivable cruelty, perversity, and brutality of their ”god”, which is the main topic of their scriptures, but still do ”love” such ”god”, and are thus convinced to adopt the same values as their putative aggressor.
During the European Middle Ages, the common people, the main victims of the assault perpetrated by the Catholic Church against human conscience, would deliriously rejoice in the burning at the stake of ”witches”, that is, of common people like them. Identifying with aggressor they felt safe. In the same way, identifying with the psychopathic, evil dalai, many Tibetans feel safe, and thus ”love” him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrom
I am familiar with the Stockholm syndrome as well as the Abrahamic fear-based tradition which was engineered purely to control the masses. I had initially followed Buddhism because of its focus on logic and thus its apparent difference from the Abrahamic faiths, however, as I delve deeper into Buddhism, I find the same Abrahamic threat of hell - if you break samaya, you go to avici hell and die a thousand deaths. What is the difference between Buddhism and the Abrahamic traditions then.
We are told the Dalai Lama is a Buddha and thus we cannot say anything negative about him. The high lamas are mostly mum about the Dalai Lama so what are the common people supposed to think? I know you say that we should judge for ourselves but because we are NOT enlightened, we can only see so much so shouldn't those who are "more enlightened" advise joe public? Why the conspiracy of silence? If you are a parent and know better and see your child being wayward, shouldn't you advise your child? Where is the compassion?
This website advocates that the Dalai Lama is a Buddha and that the Dorje Shugden ban is merely a construct for the greater good - to make Dorje Shugden the most popular deity in the world. Well, it has been decades since the ban was instituted and all I see is harm. Perhaps the ban will be lifted soon, and of course I i hope it will be, but what is it all about? Is the Dalai Lama simply an alien who has no compassion for those who suffered under the ban? Or did those who suffered under the ban have the karma to suffer anyway so the Dalai Lama didn't really hurt them directly by the ban? Ergo if I stab someone and kill them, it's not really my fault because he had the karma to be killed?
Thanks for reading my rantings, jspitanga. I am simply perplexed :D
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It certainly seems that the Dalai Lama is playing multiple roles. On one hands this ban of the Protector practice and on the other he indirectly encourages and even promotes it. All this seems contradictory and confusing for in our minds we expect the Dalai Lama or any high Lamas to behave in a way consistent with our expectations. There were a few Dalai Lamas who behave in ways not consistent with our expectations; I remember the Sixth Dalai Lama, Tsangyang Gyatso as one such Dalai Lama. He was a womanizer and like drinking and poems. All considered, He is still considered the Sixth Dalai Lama. Can we say that this is wrong?
Taking the same logic, why is the 14th Dalai Lama, Tenzin Gyatso behaves in ways so extreme? If we consider the Dalai Lamas as Chenrizig, then we must also believe that whatever He does is to benefit the optimum number of people. So the question that is most important to ask is, how can this ban be beneficial?
For one, I can say the ban has benefited me, for I would not know of this practice if there is no ban. Perhaps millions of other can say the same. Does this make sense?
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The ban which lead to discrimination of the Dorje Shugden practitioners are indeed a sinful act. If one truly view Dalai Lama as a Bodhisattva, then it's possible to view the acts of a Bodhisattva as noble due to his unwavering motivation. A bodhisattva can commit murder and other sinful acts if these acts will to benefit more people and lesser casualties. All these acts are supported by the power of clairvoyance from many lifetimes' attainments and greatness in dharma practice. Is a carefully customised ban based on good motivation so difficult to believe?
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/10153857_533010613485684_558395552_n.jpg)
How about this, a bit of parody to lighten the mood instead of ”Jekyll and Hyde personality”. Here come the force to lift the ban!
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I am familiar with the Stockholm syndrome as well as the Abrahamic fear-based tradition which was engineered purely to control the masses. I had initially followed Buddhism because of its focus on logic and thus its apparent difference from the Abrahamic faiths, however, as I delve deeper into Buddhism, I find the same Abrahamic threat of hell - if you break samaya, you go to avici hell and die a thousand deaths. What is the difference between Buddhism and the Abrahamic traditions then.
Abrahamic ideologies are indeed based on threats, which are defined as ”the expression of an intention to inflict evil or injury on another”. In order to force people into full compliance with the irrational will of the Jewish ethnic ”god”, Abrahamic ideologies threaten their victims with punishment, which is harm inflicted by the very same ”god”.
Buddhism, on the other hand, is based on the understanding of the dependent arising of actions and their results. There is no more threat in such understanding than in understanding that the mixing of such and such chemicals will produce a dangerous explosion. There is no punishment either, and no one inflicts harm on us except for ourselves.
Besides, the Buddhist disciple is encouraged by our teacher, the Buddha, to carefully check any received teachings, and not to blindly accept them, even if they are proclaimed by the Buddha himself. Also, the Fifty Stanzas on Guru Devotion, which are based on the sacred tantras, state that the disciple does not have to follow a guru who violates the Dharma precepts.
Therefore, despite any imagined similarities, the difference between the evil Abrahamic ideologies and the pure Buddhadharma is immense.
We are told the Dalai Lama is a Buddha and thus we cannot say anything negative about him.
If we are supposed to reject even the Buddha's own teachings, if they contradict direct perception or reason, why should we not reject the harmful teachings of the evil dalai?
As you can see, dalaite ideologues are hell bent on creating a new infallible authority on the basis of a personality cult, all of which is the very negation of Buddhadharma.
Anyway, there is nothing negative in analyzing and understanding anyone's negative actions; the negativity is in perpetrating such actions, as is the case with the evil dalai.
Also, there is a lot of negativity in praising the evildoer, calling him a ”buddha”, thus justifying, legitimizing, and even sanctifying his evil deeds, which is what dalaites do.
The high lamas are mostly mum about the Dalai Lama so what are the common people supposed to think?
Whatever they find on the basis of direct perception and reason, judging for ourselves, as recommended by our teacher the Buddha.
I know you say that we should judge for ourselves
Not me, our teacher the Buddha says so.
but because we are NOT enlightened, we can only see so much so shouldn't those who are "more enlightened" advise joe public?
We the joe public have already been advised by the Buddha himself to judge for ourselves, and not to blindly follow any supposed authority, not even the Buddha himself.
Why the conspiracy of silence?
The very phrase, conspiracy of silence, ”a secret agreement to keep silent about an occurrence, situation, or subject especially in order to promote or protect selfish interests”, suggests the likely answer.
If you are a parent and know better and see your child being wayward, shouldn't you advise your child? Where is the compassion?
Dalaism, just like Abrahamic ideologies, being as they are conspiracies of silence, are at the service of selfish interests, and therefore exclude compassion.
In the biblical book of Genesis, the gods (Elohim) engage in a conspiracy of silence in order to keep Adam and Eve ignorant, lest the latter two would become like the former several.
In the same way, the evil dalai and his minions engage in a conspiracy of silence, hiding their crimes under the cover of ”being a buddha”, in order to serve their own selfish interests.
This website advocates that the Dalai Lama is a Buddha and that the Dorje Shugden ban is merely a construct for the greater good - to make Dorje Shugden the most popular deity in the world. Well, it has been decades since the ban was instituted and all I see is harm. Perhaps the ban will be lifted soon, and of course I i hope it will be, but what is it all about? Is the Dalai Lama simply an alien who has no compassion for those who suffered under the ban? Or did those who suffered under the ban have the karma to suffer anyway so the Dalai Lama didn't really hurt them directly by the ban? Ergo if I stab someone and kill them, it's not really my fault because he had the karma to be killed?
Indeed. People invent every kind of stories in order to justify their own accomplicity with evil.
Besides, to suggest that a holy being such as Dorje Shugden needs that people suffer so that he himself becomes worldwide famous is nothing short of blasphemous, and nothing but a delusional projection of the deranged, self-aggrandizing minds of those inventing such crude, irresponsible mythologies.
Thanks for reading my rantings, jspitanga. I am simply perplexed :D
Yes, samsara and its tricks are indeed perplexing, specially when people mix Dharma with their own delirious, self-aggrandizing projections.
Anyway, it's I who thank you for the honest discussion, which is something so hard to find.
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Jspitanga you are indeed very knowledgeable in every aspect of Buddhism and write well too. I am just curious what you think is the reason the Dalai Lama has discriminated Dorje Shugden and imposed a ban making millions of people suffer. Isn't this clearly mixing religion with politics? What is the benefit that the Dalai Lama is getting out of this?
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Jspitanga you are indeed very knowledgeable in every aspect of Buddhism and write well too.
I see that you like jokes, but the one two posts above with Palpatine was much better.
By the way, some details about this sinister character show that it was clearly inspired by the evil dalai.
Palpatine is a fictional character and the main antagonist of the Star Wars franchise. He is portrayed in the live action films by Ian McDiarmid.
In the original trilogy, the character appears as the aged, pale-faced and nearly decrepit Emperor Palpatine of the Galactic Empire. In the prequel trilogy, his character is a rather elderly Chancellor Palpatine of the Galactic Republic who rises to power through deception and treachery. As the senator from Naboo and then the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, he outwardly behaves like a well-intentioned public servant and supporter of democracy. He is a double agent whose true identity is the Dark Lord of the Sith known as Darth Sidious. From behind the scenes, he murdered his former master Darth Plagueis, has Darth Maul reveal the Sith's existence for the first time in 1,000 years, has Darth Tyranus instigate the Clone Wars, corrupts Anakin Skywalker to the dark side of the Force, used the Great Jedi Purge to commit xeno-genocide on a galaxy-wide scale, and transforms the Republic into a Sith theocrat-stratocracy authoritarian regime.
Since the initial theatrical run of Star Wars, he has become a symbol of evil and sinister deception in popular culture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palpatine
I am just curious what you think is the reason the Dalai Lama has discriminated Dorje Shugden and imposed a ban making millions of people suffer.
The same reasons behind the evil actions of any evil tyrant, mainly ignorance, greed and hatred.
Isn't this clearly mixing religion with politics?
No, it's just politics; there is no religion, understood as Dharma, in the evil actions of the perfidious criminal. There is a semblance of Dharma to deceive the naive, otherwise it is just politics, and the worst of politics at it.
What is the benefit that the Dalai Lama is getting out of this?
A free ticket to the hell.
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The high lamas are mostly mum about the Dalai Lama so what are the common people supposed to think?
Actually, no. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche already had spoken about this in his Dorje Shugden writings - Music Delighting An Ocean of Protectors. The text was written before the ban and it was probably because he foresaw the conflict and offers an advice to rise above this. Here's what he said...
But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future. Why is this true? Because it is utterly impossible that such great beings, who are special emanations of Arya Avalokiteswara and Buddha Amitabha, could lack the power to overcome the harmful force of any sort of magical spell, harmful demon, or spirit. This is because they are both powerful Lords who have overcome external and internal maras without exception. - Page 125 of Music Delighting An Ocean of Protectors
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or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama.
Trijang Rinpoche is surely referring to actual Dalai Lamas, not to just any evil, criminal impostor soiling this name.
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or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama.
Trijang Rinpoche is surely referring to actual Dalai Lamas, not to just any evil, criminal impostor soiling this name.
(Speaking generally, not directly to you Js)
It doesn't matter which DL Rinpoche is referring to, that is not the point. However, we must understand the need for relating to the human emanation in an appropriate way, and since according to worldly convention the present DL has tried to usurp the position of the many lineage Gurus and engaged in excessive criminal activity, he must face the consequences of his actions amongst human society that are regarded as inappropriate by such a society. As I've said elsewhere, if my Gurus were abusing human rights, I would confront them and they would need to face justice according to society's conventions, Buddha or not.
You can't just go around killing and stealing and lying and harming people and finding ways to force others to harm people and say "it's ok, they're a Buddha". That's horse shit. It may be ok in terms of that Buddhas' subjective work to tame living beings beyond ordinary understanding, but from the point of view of the worldly, that shit isn't ok and will be dealt with accordingly, and they know that, of course, that's part of the play, part of the taming, getting us to respond appropriately with compassionate action to stop the wrong actions. That is the whole point, the refinement of your consciousness, and you have to realize this subjectively and privately.
But let me give you a clear example of how such dialogue appears to the worldly. I once was explaining to a non-Buddhist how a Buddha or bodhisattvas' compassion and skill are beyond comprehension and that they will not accumulate negativity even if they kill someone. You know what their response was? "What the fuck, so it's ok for people to kill if they say they're a Buddha, that's messed up." Exactly!
As for accumulating negative karma, if a person has compassion for someone they regard as an ordinary sentient being, provided they are not speaking under the influence of strong delusion but rather out of compassion and an honest analysis of the situation as it appears to worldly convention, such titles as 'hypocrite', 'liar', 'dictator', 'criminal impostor', 'evil dalai' and so on are not misnomers, but accurate descriptions of actions being performed by such a person. Just because such names may be used it does not automatically follow that the namer hates the person being named. The naming as such is an effort to get people to see the situation for what it is according to human conventions. I commend Jspitanga for being forthright and spot on, and I empathize with those who have the DL as a Guru - I know it is not an easy thing to admit your Guru is doing hella bad shit to people or have people using such language about your Guru. In this paragraph, my aim is to give you a perspective on where people are coming from when they use such names. I don't have great wisdom or clairvoyance, but I do have a good heart and try to share what I feel may be helpful. Sorry if I sometimes preach to the choir or come off as arrogant, I'm just trying to help dispel tension in this awkward circumstance we find ourselves in.
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or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama.
Trijang Rinpoche is surely referring to actual Dalai Lamas, not to just any evil, criminal impostor soiling this name.
But... but... but Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche taught this Dalai Lama and wouldn't he know his student through and through and that he is an impostor and one that is evil? Wouldn't Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche have some sort of clairvoyance to see something in him to decide on this? For many years, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had been transmitting the teachings to him. He must know something or have a clue about this...
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Dear Wisdom Being,
Thank you for this post, once again, pointing to great contradictions in the statements of His Holiness. On one hand, His Holiness is strongly against discrimination base on religion, on the other hand, he has single handedly created one of the biggest discrimination in the history of Tibetan Buddhism through enforcing the ban on the practise of Dorje Shugden. Imagine the karma accumulated in causing the suffering towards others...the monks, the lay people, high lamas...etc. But then again, His Holiness comes from a direct line of recognized incarnations and therefore, his actions must be based on something we cannot ordinarily perceive. His Holiness's recognition is official, and has been since the time of the 5th Dalai Lama. Therefore, if there is doubt on His Holiness's attainments and realizations, then the high lamas including Panchen Lama, who performed divination to recognize the current Dalai Lama would all be wrong too. And that would shake the foundation of the entire Tibetan Buddhist tradition. So that cannot be the case.
Therefore, since His Holiness is who he is, then whatever he is doing should arise from an enlightened mind. His works throughout his life has been benefiting mankind in more ways than one can describe so we cannot undermine or insult His Holiness through anger and hatred. However, we can appeal to His Holiness to stop the ban on Dorje Shugden, for if he is to practise what he preaches, then the ban on Dorje Shugden is invalid.
[I agree with you that there is a lot of contradictions on statements that the Dalai Lama makes. It is almost like an indecisive person saying "on one hand it is ..... but on the other hand..... "
According to the Dalai Lama’s web page, he frequently states that his life is guided by three major commitments: the promotion of basic human values or secular ethics in the interest of human happiness, the fostering of inter-religious harmony and the welfare of the Tibetan people, focusing on the survival of their identity, culture and religion. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND he is not lifting the ban which continues to presecute his own people (Buddhists/Tibetans who practice Dorje Shugden) as they are continuosly being oppressed, abused, victimized, ill-treated and mistreated. ]
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Quote from: jspitanga
A free ticket to the hell.
When jspitanga stated it is a free ticket to the hell, I absolutely agree with him for HHDL is Avalokestivara with thousand arms and eyes when he travel forth to hell, he will liberate many beings in hell. These beings will have the opportunity to migrate toPure Land to learn and practice Dharma. How wonderful!
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"All human beings are equal and capable. Discrimination on the basis of caste, religion or any other condition is a sinful act," the Dalai Lama said.
I wonder how unenlightened beings like myself is going to interpret this statement. How His Holiness have been preaching all these messages of compassion, peace, harmony and non discrimination. Is His Holiness aware of the plights of Shugden practitioners being ostracized by the CTA? Oo...wait a minute, the CTA is merely carrying out their duty under the instructions of the government led by His Holiness. So what is the definition of discrimination on basis of religion?
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"All human beings are equal and capable. Discrimination on the basis of caste, religion or any other condition is a sinful act," the Dalai Lama said.
And since the evil dalai furiously engages in such sinful acts, he is not only a sinner according to his own definition, but also an hypocrite, defined by Merrian-Webster as ”a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.”
Now those who claim that a shameless sinner and cowardly hypocrite is a practitioner of the Buddhist path, and someone worth emulation and veneration, are not only bringing disgrace and disrepute to Buddhadharma, but also showing their own accomplicity with evil.
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When jspitanga stated it is a free ticket to the hell, I absolutely agree with him for HHDL is Avalokestivara with thousand arms and eyes when he travel forth to hell, he will liberate many beings in hell. These beings will have the opportunity to migrate toPure Land to learn and practice Dharma. How wonderful!
If the evil dalai where Chenrezig, he would not send people to the hells in the first place, through instigating them to create schism within the Sangha, to break their commitments with their gurus, to self-immolate, and so forth.
This shows how immoral and anti-Buddhistic is the personality cult around the evil dalai, let's call it dalaism, the novel ideology many people have adopted as a replacement for, and as weapon against, the pure Dharma of the Buddha.
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But then again, His Holiness comes from a direct line of recognized incarnations and therefore, his actions must be based on something we cannot ordinarily perceive.
Rather, since we can directly perceive that the evil dalai is nothing but an ordinary criminal, it follows that he, together with some of his recognized predecessors, is nothing but an impostor.
His Holiness's recognition is official, and has been since the time of the 5th Dalai Lama.
If it is official, it is most likely an imposture, otherwise there would be no need to be official to start with. Our teacher, the Buddha, was never officially recognized, let alone by a bunch of greedy theocratic slave-owners.
The problem is that your mind is not turned towards Dharma, but rather towards political power and recognition, that is, towards the so-called eight mundane concerns the Buddha warned against.
Therefore, if there is doubt on His Holiness's attainments and realizations, then the high lamas including Panchen Lama, who performed divination to recognize the current Dalai Lama would all be wrong too.
This is a blatant lie of your own invention. The current, evil dalai was never recognized by any divination performed by any Panchen Lama. The current, evil dalai, was born in 1935 and ”recognized” only by the debauched regent Reting in 1937, the very year when the 9th Panchen Lama died in far away Yushu, fleeing the relentless persecution by the same, debauched Reting.
And that would shake the foundation of the entire Tibetan Buddhist tradition.
Funny, I thought that the foundation of the entire Tibetan Buddhist tradition was the Sutras and Tantras of the Buddha.
Anyway, since political recognitions seem to be the basis of your religion, it follows that your religion are just the eight mundane concerns, the straight path to hell according to the Buddha.
So that cannot be the case.
Since all of your reasonings are based on lies and wrong motivations, your conclusion could not be different.
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But... but... but Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche taught this Dalai Lama and wouldn't he know his student through and through and that he is an impostor and one that is evil? Wouldn't Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche have some sort of clairvoyance to see something in him to decide on this? For many years, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had been transmitting the teachings to him. He must know something or have a clue about this...
Surely, whence his prophetic warning about the evil dalai's jealous behavior.
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Whatever label we wish to call Dalai Lama that is up to our own individual choice of this matter for me it is quite simple, the Dalai Lama is a highly intelligent person and he has studied the scripture and Lamrim possibly many rounds and meditated on them. If he is unenlightened, he will create negative karma, if he is enlightened he will not create any karma thats my simplistic way of looking at things. So despite the ban looking very worldly in nature and political it might not be due to the Dalai lama's motivations.
Karma is infallible, if he has indeed harmed others and that was his motive, not even he can escape karma if he does any action with the 8 worldly concerns and the 3 poisons within his mindstream. Let karma be the judge.
A lama spoke about judging lamas, especially that if we start saying this lama is incorrect or has a flaw or is not the correct one, then doubt can be thrown in not to only lamas, but teachings of the past, dharma texts written by certain lamas etc. If we can say Dalai Lama is the fake one, which I doubt it, if he is the fake dalai lama he has certainly captivated the world and many of the top minds of the world. How many fake people can do that to such a level, sleep little, no indulgence teach, talk and rationalise. What evil being will give so much relief and inspire so many to do dharma practice? Can a negative and evil mind bring benefit to so many? Though probable but highly unlikely.
If we can call the Dalai Lama fake, then the same accusations can be hurled on to Karmapa, Sakya Trinzin, Dilgo Khyentse etc etc,so where does the buck stop? Then we can go on is this dharma text composed by so and so is it authentic and dharma, where does this end? Not to forget the Dalai Lama in previous incarnation was the lineage holder of the Lamrim from Je Atisha. If we go with such a thinking we won't be practicing dharma we will just be seeing the faults of others and checking which Lama is incorrect now? How beneficial will this be?
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A lama spoke about judging lamas, especially that if we start saying this lama is incorrect or has a flaw or is not the correct one, then doubt can be thrown in not to only lamas, but teachings of the past, dharma texts written by certain lamas etc.
This is a sordid attempt to transfer to the student the faults of the supposed lama. If the self-styled lama spoils and corrupts the teachings, as the evil dalai does, the fault belongs to corrupting teacher, not to the student. Why don't you name the corrupt ”lama” proclaiming such an anti-Buddhist absurdity?
Besides, Maitreya's Ornament of the Mahayana Sutras insists on the need of carefully judging of the proposed lama, before even accepting him as such. And the very first quality required from a teacher is a disciplined mind, which the evil dalai obviously lacks.
The evil dalai, possessed by his power greed, encourages self-immolation, promotes witch hunts, and like a mad dog infected with rabies spreads hatred and dissension among the people, and causes the severance of sacred guru-disciple bonds. He reacts angrily, fully out of control, even to a simple, peaceful nun.
Therefore, according to Maitreya, the self-styled Chenrezig impostor does not qualify as a teacher. Your unnamed ”lama”, who contradicted the teachings and wanted to forbid judging of lamas, obviously motivated by the eight mundane concerns, just wanted to give himself some immunity and infallibility status.
If we can say Dalai Lama is the fake one, which I doubt it, if he is the fake dalai lama he has certainly captivated the world and many of the top minds of the world.
So what. Many criminals did. This only shows the power of human stupidity. That's why the advice of the Buddha was to rely on yourself, on your own judging powers, on reason and direct perception, not on the opinions of others, not even of the Buddha himself.
But for you what counts is what the media says. You gave up your human dignity, you accepted to become a remote-controlled zombie, repeating the commonly accepted, media induced opinion, just because it is commonly accepted. You are not interested in liberation, but in only complying with commonly accepted opinion.
How many fake people can do that to such a level, sleep little, no indulgence teach, talk and rationalise.
Many maniacs do the same. But, just like with the evil dalai, only evil comes from this maniac behavior.
What evil being will give so much relief
Which relief? The relief of the self-immolator burning in flames? The relief of the divided families? The relief of the student separated fro him guru? The relief of being treated like a pariah and refused medical assistance, education, documents, and every basic human right? The relief of being beaten and stoned by witch hunters?
and inspire so many to do dharma practice?
Which ”dharma practice”? The sordid personality cult you obviously engage in?
Can a negative and evil mind bring benefit to so many?
Which benefit, apart from the miseries above? Maybe the benefit of being a useful puppet for Western anti-humanity geopolitical interests, those controlling the media, the same media telling you to venerate the evil criminal.
If we can call the Dalai Lama fake, then the same accusations can be hurled on to Karmapa, Sakya Trinzin, Dilgo Khyentse etc etc,so where does the buck stop?
Wherever fakeness stops. Samsara is where fakeness prevail. Instead of carefully checking for yourself, you obviously rely on big names and titles. Therefore, you are possessed by the eight mundane concerns, and are just a fake Dharma practitioner yourself.
Then we can go on is this dharma text composed by so and so is it authentic and dharma, where does this end?
Use your own reason, this is the advice of the Buddha. Do not accept just any garbage just because it labels itself ”Dharma”.
Not to forget the Dalai Lama in previous incarnation was the lineage holder of the Lamrim from Je Atisha.
This is the story the evildoer and his minions tell you. It is intended to deceive people wanting to be deceived, like you.
If we go with such a thinking we won't be practicing dharma we will just be seeing the faults of others and checking which Lama is incorrect now? How beneficial will this be?
The benefit of properly checking the proposed lama, and of resolutely rejecting a fake, is that one is able to start practicing Dharma, as opposed to just faking it, as you do.
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But... but... but Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche taught this Dalai Lama and wouldn't he know his student through and through and that he is an impostor and one that is evil? Wouldn't Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche have some sort of clairvoyance to see something in him to decide on this? For many years, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had been transmitting the teachings to him. He must know something or have a clue about this...
Surely, whence his prophetic warning about the evil dalai's jealous behavior.
I do think BIG UNCLE has a point there which I do think so!
YES YES YES Surely HH Trijang Rinpoche could see through and beyond if this Dalai Lama was a fake evil being. Why confer him all the initiations for? So he could harm and bring more being to hell? That sounds a bit silly. Now we cannot go on the route to say HH Trijang could have been wrong, cos my my that would mean we're no different from Dalai Lama... then we're all in the same boat!
And even if we take on the "ass-u me-ption" that this Dalai Lama is a fake... wow... His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche sure is showing us the right example of attitude we also need to have ---- FORGIVENESS and TRUE COMPASSION especially to those that harm us. Of course it doesn't mean that we allow them to slap us over and step all over us... but to use wise, peaceful and logical methods like what ds.com and ISC has been doing which is inspiring. Though some of us may not agree with harsh words, tone and manner they use, but when you actually see them chant, you realise they are not harsh haters of the Dalai Lama... just trying to make their point in action that was created by the Dalai Lama.
And if the Dalai Lama was really Chenrezig... I also see how crazily compassionate the Dalai Lama is to allow this to happen to him. He too would have seen this all coming with His clairvoyance. Such is the illusory play of the divine... I can never imagine!
Sadhu sadhu sadhu
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YES YES YES Surely HH Trijang Rinpoche could see through and beyond if this Dalai Lama was a fake evil being.
Indeed, that's why he made it very clear that the evil dalai is just driven by his sick jealousy of Dorje Shugden.
And even if he had not made it clear, it is still anyone's personal responsibility to deify or not the evil criminal, and to use or not the name of the Buddha or Chenrezig to justify such a criminal and his crimes, thus becoming or not an accomplice criminal oneself.
In your case, you have chosen to deify the criminal, to use the name of the Buddha or Chenrezg to justify the criminal and his crimes, and to become an accomplice criminal yourself, but you infantilely try to shift to Trijang Rinpoche the responsibility for your own depravity.
Why confer him all the initiations for?
This was Trijang Rinpoche's duty as the tutor of the evil dalai. That the evil dalai did not improve his character is only his own fault.
So he could harm and bring more being to hell?
You are just trying to blame Trijang Rinpoche for the faults of the evil dalai. Then you should blame the Buddha, who gave the teachings which eventually were handed down to the evil dalai.
We are responsible for our own choices. If you choose to deify an evil criminal, you should grow up and accept the responsibility for your choice, instead of trying to blame Trijang Rinpoche or the Buddha.
That sounds a bit silly.
Agreed. The funny thing is that you keep saying silly things even while being aware of their silliness.
Now we cannot go on the route to say HH Trijang could have been wrong, cos my my that would mean we're no different from Dalai Lama... then we're all in the same boat!
Again, you try to blame Trijang Rinpoche for your own accomplicity with a criminal and his crimes. Trijang Rinpoche told us what does it mean to be a Buddhist and to take refuge in the Three Jewels. Now if instead you want to be a proselyte of the sinister personality cult of the evil dalai, go ahead, but at least have the balls to assume the responsibility for your own choices instead of blaming Trijang Rinpoche.
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This ban has lasted more than 18 long years. So much sufferings and pain are caused by this ban and Tibetans are fighting Tibetans because of this ban instead of focusing on how to return to their homeland. CTA have not much progress in this goal except to meet and discuss how to counter the Shugden protestors and practitioners. Is this a distraction from Tibetan's goal in returning to Tibet? Looks like Tibetans are now scattered like ants all over the world and eventually they will lose their identity, heritage and culture. How sad!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10305604_741215395931101_5013950849613954587_n.jpg)
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Dalai Lama said : "All humans are equal and capable. Discrimination on the basis of caste, religion or any other conditions is a sinful act."
Has the Dalai Lama forgotten he has ban the practice of Dorje Shugden for so long? Doesn't he knows that everyone is waiting for the day for the Dalai Lama to lift the BAN?
The Dalai Lama even mentioned in one of his talks that if we do wrong things, negative things happens.
But if we do good things, get fulfilment and happiness.
Is the Dalai Lama teachings a bit contradictory?
Let's hope the BAN be lifted soonest possible for all practitioners to enjoy the freedom of religion.