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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tenzin Gyatso on January 17, 2013, 10:00:13 AM
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Dhogyal is not applicable to the great school founded by the illuminating king of dharma Tsongkapa. Tsongkapa the all Knowing Himself appointed Kalarupa, Mahakala and Vaishravana as protectors of the Three Scopes. Why not TRUST Tsongkapa?
Dhogyal is not applicable practice to Gelugs or anyone. Since you place faith in these 'deities' or deities by virtue of your faith in certain lamas' words, why pick some lamas over Tsongkapa?
Well shouldn't you believe and trust Tsongkapa more than Trijang Rinpoche? ::)How many of you have met Trijang Rinpoche? None right? Unless you are 80 years old. Trijang Rinpoche is your lineage guru and you should trust? Well so is Tsongkapa. Tsongkapa is your lineage guru also. Why choose Trijang over Tsongkapa? Illogical bias?
Trust Tsongkapa. Without Tsongkapa there would be no Trijang and all those masters. ??? Full stop. Stop Dhogyal and pick up with Kalarupa, Mahakala and Vaishrava as they have zero controversies-ALL ACCEPT THEY ARE ENLIGHTENED. :) ;) :D ???
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You're right. He cannot be 'exclusive' to any school because he protects the Dharma as a whole, as this is what he promised Nechung he would do. But if we were to make a special commitment to him to receive further blessings, we would need to focus on Je Tsongkhapa's teachings. So in essence, you dont need to be Gelug to receive his help as you can get his help by just thinking of him or looking at him and he will lead you to the Dharma path that you have the most affinity with.
Thanks for pointing this out!
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I second Ensapa, good logic there.
First of all, HHDL in recent teachings no longer refer DS as Dolgyal... have you been slacking off from listening to Dharma teachings by HHDL or just plain stuck in the past? Please come up to speed.
Secondly, you make it sound like DS practitioners had the choice. HHDL's practitioners had a choice, the chose to follow what HHDL said, we DS practitioners never had the choice. The very fact that this issue is being brought forward is a clear sign that you're trying to force it down our throats.
I do not see the difference between Tsongkhapa and Trijang Rinpoche, for there is a teacher and the kind lineage masters that have kept the teachings alive. Are you saying that our lineage masters is not important? Then you're also saying that HHDL is not important to you.
So, let me remind you once again, the very last words Buddha advised us all that follow His great path to liberation:
“Believe not because an old book is produced as an authority. Believe not because your father said [you should] believe the same. Believe not because other people like you believe it. Test everything, try everything, and then believe it, and if you find it for the good of many, give it to all.”
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Well Tenzin Gyatso, it is not proper to say things like that. We are not going against Lama Tsongkhapa's advice. Lama Tsongkhapa lived at the turn of the 14th Century and his advice catered specifically to the practitioners of that era which were mainly monastics. So, the combined practice of Kalarupa, Mahakala and Vaishravana is still effective today and many people are still propitiating the combination of these 3 Protectors to remove obstacles in gaining insight into the Lamrim.
However, times change and the karma of the people change too. Dorje Shugden as a protector arose after Lama Tsongkhapa passed into parinirvana. Apparently Tagphu Pemavajra, the mystic traveled to Gaden heaven and beheld Dorje Shugden under the throne of Lama Tsongkhapa. Tagphu Pemavajra received the practice in Gaden and bestowed it to Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche, and he in turn spread it to Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche along with many other Lamas and practitioners. Just before the ban, most Gelug Lamas and monks practice Dorje Shugden.
With his clairvoyance and wisdom, Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche explained that Dorje Shugden is the most suited for the difficult practitioners of our time. But even Pabongka Rinpoche never replaced any of the practice of Kalarupa, Mahakala and Vaishravana. However, Dorje Shugden's time is near and eventually even the Dalai Lama's ban cannot stop him from growing bigger and bigger. Eventually, the Dalai Lama's ban have to be lifted.
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@TenzinGyatso
1. Well shouldn't you believe and trust Tsongkapa more than Trijang Rinpoche?
The person who banned Dorje Shugden is His Holiness the Dalai Lama. So, it is HHDL along with unenlightened Nechung, that ban Dorje Shugden and first referred to Him as Dhogyal.
So your question should be, why pick His Holiness the Dalai Lama over Trijang Rinpoche's advice? Tsongkhapa did not ban Dorje Shugden.
2. How many of you have met Trijang Rinpoche? None right? Unless you are 80 years old. Trijang Rinpoche is your lineage guru and you should trust? Well so is Tsongkapa. Tsongkapa is your lineage guru also. Why choose Trijang over Tsongkapa? Illogical bias?
I have not met Tsongkhapa, nor have I met Trijang Rinpoche. Both are enlightened beings, how can I choose one to be right over the other. I choose Dorje Shugden because my Guru trusts him, and he kindly gave me His practice.
So if I needed to pick, the question to myself would be, "Is His Holiness the Dalai Lama correct, or my Guru?"
3. Dhogyal is not applicable practice to Gelugs or anyone. Since you place faith in these 'deities' or deities by virtue of your faith in certain lamas' words, why pick some lamas over Tsongkapa?
Dorje Shugden is the emanation of Manjushri. It was Manjushri who blessed Lama Tsongkhapa with the ability to recall all of his previous lives, it was Manjushri whom Lama Tsongkhapa had visions of and could communicate with directly with and it was Manjushri's teachings which Lama Tsongkhapa studied.
So really, if I believe in Dorje Shugden, I trust Tsongkhapa.
4. Stop Dhogyal and pick up with Kalarupa, Mahakala and Vaishrava as they have zero controversies-ALL ACCEPT THEY ARE ENLIGHTENED.
We don't have to trust what everyone accepts is right. If that's the case why even study the Dharma, most of the world does not accept it as a religion.
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Yes, we do consider Tsongkhapa as our lineage Guru, the father of our lineage.
This point alone validates the practice of Dorje Shugden. For Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltsen, one of Dorje Shugden's previous emanations, was widely regarded as an emanation of Tsongkhapa himself. And it was in this lifetime, as Dulzin Drakpa Gyeltsen that he first made the promise to arise as a Dharma protector to protect the teachings of Tsongkhapa.
Another point to support this that Tsongkhapa is an emanation of Manjushri. And so is Dorje Shugden. So they are certainly of the same mindstream and therefore one and the same.
So if there is any validation from Tsongkhapa as to who we can practice, this would actually be the best for we would be propitiating Tsongkhapa himself - just in another 'guise'.
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You missed the whole point. I guess you don't have a verifiable answer, so you have to digress to something else to distract?
You know what I am saying and you didn't address it at all. :-\
You're right. He cannot be 'exclusive' to any school because he protects the Dharma as a whole, as this is what he promised Nechung he would do. But if we were to make a special commitment to him to receive further blessings, we would need to focus on Je Tsongkhapa's teachings. So in essence, you dont need to be Gelug to receive his help as you can get his help by just thinking of him or looking at him and he will lead you to the Dharma path that you have the most affinity with.
Thanks for pointing this out!
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Cittamani Tara also came from the same person as Dorje Shugden, Yet HHDL still grants Cittamani Tara.
Strange that how he would take the vision of one whom would have corrupted their refuge vows according to his logic.
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Dhogyal is not applicable to the great school founded by the illuminating king of dharma Tsongkapa. Tsongkapa the all Knowing Himself appointed Kalarupa, Mahakala and Vaishravana as protectors of the Three Scopes. Why not TRUST Tsongkapa?
Dhogyal is not applicable practice to Gelugs or anyone. Since you place faith in these 'deities' or deities by virtue of your faith in certain lamas' words, why pick some lamas over Tsongkapa?
Well shouldn't you believe and trust Tsongkapa more than Trijang Rinpoche? ::)How many of you have met Trijang Rinpoche? None right? Unless you are 80 years old. Trijang Rinpoche is your lineage guru and you should trust? Well so is Tsongkapa. Tsongkapa is your lineage guru also. Why choose Trijang over Tsongkapa? Illogical bias?
Trust Tsongkapa. Without Tsongkapa there would be no Trijang and all those masters. ??? Full stop. Stop Dhogyal and pick up with Kalarupa, Mahakala and Vaishrava as they have zero controversies-ALL ACCEPT THEY ARE ENLIGHTENED. :) ;) :D ???
This is a very popular reasoning against DS practice put forward by blind faith guys like Tenzin Gyatso here in the web. But it cannot be subjected to further challenge. Reason is:
Tenzin Gyatso, if you really stick to this logic, check it up with your Ningma friends and see what main practice they are doing and when did they start in the history. You are taking a static view on religious practice(by referring to Tsongkapa's time regardless of Gelukpa lineage's stream of development as time change) but not an dynamic view.
The fact is that the DS 'worship' of Gelukpa is much older that Jigme Lingpa (1730-1798)'s Longchen Nyingthig, and for sure Dudjom terton which started in 1835 with Dudjom Lingpa. By the same reason, will you think that they are too 'recent'? Would you urge the Ningmapa going back to Longchenpa (1308-1363) and give up their main practice?
Going to the extreme, by your same logic, most of the Tibetan Buddhism practices should be given up including the whole Gelukpa lineage...
Song Rinpoche said:'those always talk about sectarian is sectarian'.
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You missed the whole point. I guess you don't have a verifiable answer, so you have to digress to something else to distract?
You know what I am saying and you didn't address it at all. :-\
I'm just seeing what you wrote in another light. After all, all it takes for us to realize something is to see it from another direction. I believe all of us do Kalarupa pujas alongside Dorje Shugden's pujas, so there isnt really a case of "we do Dorje Shugdens pujas but not Kalarupa's" here. I dont think it is exclusive. We can follow Lama Tsongkhapa's teachings AND practice Dorje Shugden at the the same time. After all, the best way to make Dorje Shugden happy is to follow Lama Tsongkhapa's teachings and have Guru devotion so to say that we should 'trust' Lama Tsongkhapa and do only Kalarupa but not our Gurus who told us to do Dorje Shugden is a bit of a logic loop.
This is what I was trying to point out :)
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We propitiate Kalarupa, Mahakala, Vaishravana, Palden Lhamo and countless other protectors every month, as well as Dorje Shugden. Tsongkhapa didn't say that we should not rely on Dorje Shugden so we rely upon him and all the other protectors as well.
Your argument doesn't really work. If Lama Tsongkhapa is an enlightened being, he's working for our benefit even today and so we can see Dorje Shugden practice as his development. It's not like he's just sitting around in Tushita Pure Land having a holiday! The presentation of Dharma and its various practices change in accordance with the karma of living beings. What was applicable at the time of Tsongkhapa is not so karmically beneficial now so Tsongkhapa has given us Dorje Shugden practice instead. Great Teachers such as Je Pabongkhapa, Trijang Rinpoche and Geshe Kelsang Gyatso have said that Lama Tsongkhapa and Dorje Shugden are both emanations of Manjushri - they are the same mental continuum. My question is: why trust the Dalai Lama over Trijang Rinpoche? Trijang Rinpoche taught the Dalai Lama everything he knows about Dharma, even though he doesn't really teach Dharma these days. I'd trust his views over the Dalai Lama's any day.
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Dhogyal is not applicable to the great school founded by the illuminating king of dharma Tsongkapa. Tsongkapa the all Knowing Himself appointed Kalarupa, Mahakala and Vaishravana as protectors of the Three Scopes. Why not TRUST Tsongkapa?
Dhogyal is not applicable practice to Gelugs or anyone. Since you place faith in these 'deities' or deities by virtue of your faith in certain lamas' words, why pick some lamas over Tsongkapa?
Dorje Shugden arose as the principal Protector of Lama Tsongkhapa’s doctrine about 350 years ago, at the time of the 5th Dalai Lama, who composed the first verses of praise to him.
Tagphu Pemavajra was famed for his special ability to astral travel and one day, he travelled to Tushita Heaven, where Lama Tsongkhapa resides. There, he requested the Buddhist ascended master Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltsen to expound the mystical teachings and practice of Dorje Shugden.
For the first time ever, Dorje Shugden’s full entourage and mandala emanated out from under Lama Tsongkhapa’s throne. Dorje Shugden then transmitted the practice directly to Tagphu Pemavajra, just as the Buddha Maitreya had transmitted five major philosophical treatises to the master Asanga in Tushita Heaven in earlier times.
So yes we are following Lama Tsongkhapa since Dorje Shugden resides under Lama Tsongkhapa's throne protecting the teachings of Lama Tsongkhapa. AND YES it is an Dorje Shugden is applicable only until the Dalai Lama banned it. Other wise is was practiced for about 350 years!
Well shouldn't you believe and trust Tsongkapa more than Trijang Rinpoche? ::)How many of you have met Trijang Rinpoche? None right? Unless you are 80 years old. Trijang Rinpoche is your lineage guru and you should trust? Well so is Tsongkapa. Tsongkapa is your lineage guru also. Why choose Trijang over Tsongkapa? Illogical bias?
I see Lama Tsongkhapa and Trijang Rinpoche as one. It is said that the blessings are stronger based on the length of time of how close they are to you... hence the blessings would be strongest from my current Guru. So actually, Tsongkhapa, Trijang Rinpoche and my Guru is one, so in this case, we trust all and we choose all, they are one and not separated. There is no difference except the difference man chose to make it to be like what you are doing due to your own perceptions. But to impose your ideas and perception on others is not very skillful and influential.
Trust Tsongkapa. Without Tsongkapa there would be no Trijang and all those masters. ??? Full stop. Stop Dhogyal and pick up with Kalarupa, Mahakala and Vaishrava as they have zero controversies-ALL ACCEPT THEY ARE ENLIGHTENED. :) ;) :D ???
Correct we do trust Tsongkhapa and Lama Tsongkhapa was blessed by Manjushri who Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen who is Dorje Shugden. Hence why don't you ask why not trust the one who blessed Tsongkhapa who is Manjushri? And which we are... ta dah! and surprise surprise we also do Kalarupa, Mahakala and Vaishrave all with no problems, no controversies.
Also Dorje Shugden's previous incarnation was Panchen Sonam Drakpa and his academic books and teachings of Nagarjuna’s precious philosophy of the Middle Way are still being taught and learn by the sanghas of Gelug schools soooo aren't they like actually studying Dorje Shugden's teachings, why do they like not continue studying from Dorje SHugden? :-\ So in other words... they do accept Dorje Shugden and trust him too ;)
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Oh I forgot to bold my Final points... can't do that incase you did not see it, so here it is again... 8)
Correct we do trust Tsongkhapa and Lama Tsongkhapa was blessed by Manjushri who Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen who is Dorje Shugden. Hence why don't you ask why not trust the one who blessed Tsongkhapa who is Manjushri? And which we are... ta dah! and surprise surprise we also do Kalarupa, Mahakala and Vaishrave all with no problems, no controversies.
Also Dorje Shugden's previous incarnation was Panchen Sonam Drakpa and his academic books and teachings of Nagarjuna’s precious philosophy of the Middle Way are still being taught and learn by the sanghas of Gelug schools soooo aren't they like actually studying Dorje Shugden's teachings, why do they like not continue studying from Dorje SHugden? :-\ So in other words... they do accept Dorje Shugden and trust him too ;)
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@Tenzin Gyaltso,
I am only 37years old. I am lucky enough to meet His Holiness Previous Trijang Rinpoche la at Ganchen Kyishong in Dharamsala India. and the Current HH Trijang chocktrul rinpoche few times. You don't have to be 80years old FYI.
Your question " why choose Trijang rinpoche over Je Tsongkhapa" ??? Seriously, what kinda of question is that? it's like me asking you.. " Why choose dalai lama over Chenrezig"
"People like you that creates all kinds of problems within our tibetan people and our pure geluk lineage. "
I am tibetan and most of us consider "Dalai Lama is regarded as the principal incarnation of Chenrezig and Trijang rinpoche is regarded as the principal incarnation of Je Tsongkapa.
For me HH Trijang rinpoche is Je Tsongkhapa and i can see him in person. :P
"Je Tsongkhapa, known as the "Jewel Ornament of the Sages of the Land of Snow", he was the founder of the Gelug tradition or New Kadam lineage. As the sixty-fourth successor of Je Tsongkhapa's throne he was known as Tri Jangchub Choephel, whose name in short form is Trijang and has remained with the line of the Trijang Rinpoche until this day."
Long live His Holiness Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche and free Dorje shugden.....
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The lama who arose as Dorje Shugden was a Gelugpa lama of the highest calibre and enligthened, who was the recognised incarnation of Panchen Sonam Dragpa, Buton Rinpoche, Birwapa and Duldzin who was at the same level in terms of attainments as Je Tsongkhapa himself.
The lamas who are now practicing Dorje Shugden are coming from the lineage of Je Tsongkhapa. Gelug lamas are famous for their debates and analytical thinking, and if Dorje Shugden is indeed harmful the practised would have never been adopted by the Gelug tradition at all. I am sure Dorje Shugden as a protector has been more than once debated at the monk's debate courtyard. And they can find no fault in the protector.
We do not practice for it to be controversial, we practice it because we have faith in our gurus and that this practice will lead us towards enlightenment, is beneficial and is proven to be effective. The 14th Dalai Lama made the right choice to trust Trijang Rinpoche (who requested for Dorje Shudgen oracle to take trance) to leave Tibet, if the Dalai Lama had trusted Nechung which is equally controversial, we would not have the Dalai lama anymore.
Dorje Shugden is clairvoyant surely he could see the Dalai Lama would create a ban for Dorje SHugden. If Dorje Shugden were not working hand in hand with the Dalai Lama, then Dorje Shugden as a negative spirit would have advised the Dalai Lama to stay. The Dalai Lama would not have lived to such a ripe age like now. Dorje Shugden prolongs the Dalai lama's life.
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The lama who arose as Dorje Shugden was a Gelugpa lama of the highest calibre and enligthened, who was the recognised incarnation of Panchen Sonam Dragpa, Buton Rinpoche, Birwapa and Duldzin who was at the same level in terms of attainments as Je Tsongkhapa himself.
The lamas who are now practicing Dorje Shugden are coming from the lineage of Je Tsongkhapa. Gelug lamas are famous for their debates and analytical thinking, and if Dorje Shugden is indeed harmful the practised would have never been adopted by the Gelug tradition at all. I am sure Dorje Shugden as a protector has been more than once debated at the monk's debate courtyard. And they can find no fault in the protector.
We do not practice for it to be controversial, we practice it because we have faith in our gurus and that this practice will lead us towards enlightenment, is beneficial and is proven to be effective. The 14th Dalai Lama made the right choice to trust Trijang Rinpoche (who requested for Dorje Shudgen oracle to take trance) to leave Tibet, if the Dalai Lama had trusted Nechung which is equally controversial, we would not have the Dalai lama anymore.
Dorje Shugden is clairvoyant surely he could see the Dalai Lama would create a ban for Dorje SHugden. If Dorje Shugden were not working hand in hand with the Dalai Lama, then Dorje Shugden as a negative spirit would have advised the Dalai Lama to stay. The Dalai Lama would not have lived to such a ripe age like now. Dorje Shugden prolongs the Dalai lama's life.
What you have explained is very true. Dorje Shugden does come from a long line of incarnate Lamas that are not just highly attained but have also manifested many signs of their enlightenment. They are definitely not an ordinary incarnation line. Panchen Sonam Drakpa's 11 volumes of writings are being used as textbooks to be debated upon in Geshe examinations. He is able to write so prolifically on the finer aspects of Dharma because he himself has achieved full enlightenment.
I am sure he would have as he is an incarnation of Manjushri. There are so many examples throughout his many lifetimes of manifesting his awakened state. He knowledge and practice was considered equal to Lama Tsongkhapa during his previous life and was thus given the title Dulwa Zinpa or Duldzin, Holder of the Vinaya. Even when we look at his present state as a Dharma Protector, he accorded a higher level of a Lama when he takes trance as the peaceful Duldzin. No Dharma Protector is adorned with monk robes and given a Pandit's hat during trance. His advice in this form is littered with scholarly quotes from the scriptures and he is capable of giving discourses, transmission and even initiation. However, he would decline in favor of the scholars of the monastery.
What I have mentioned about Dorje Shugden is just the tip of the iceberg of Dorje Shugden's amazing deeds and qualities that actually makes him more than an ordinary Protector. The truth is his qualities far surpasses who he is. Therefore, we are fortunate that such a sublime Protector has arisen to safeguard Lama Tsongkhapa's special teachings. Instead of finding ways to eliminate him, we should strive to find more reasons to edify and promote him.
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If we want to talk about Shugden not being applicable or a legitimate, correct practice for the Gelug school, we open the door to a lot of other questions. Dorje Shugden's practice was so central to the Gelug school and to the millions of practitioners who have arisen from just the three great monasteries of Gaden, Sera and Drepung alone. To state that Dorje Shugden practice is wrong and relegate it to mere spirit worship has very serious consequences for the whole corpus of teachings, the lineage and the basis of all vows of every Gelugpa monk and practitioner.
Saying that Dorje Shugden is a spirit, and something that is not applicable to the Gelug school, is to say that every Gelugpa practitioner who has prayed to Shugden has broken their refuge vows, which is the basis of everything else that they are practising. This includes the great teachers such as Trijang Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche, Ling Rinpoche and even the Dalai Lama, who has also practiced Dorje Shugden in his earlier years.
So if these lamas have all broken their refuge vows and samaya, then the basis of all their teachings is "unclean" and whatever they are passing down to their students is not pure. Almost every Gelug practitioner and monastery in the world today might trace their lineage to either one of the lamas named above - so that would mean none of them have really received any pure teachings since the basis of those teachings were broken vows and samaya! So the majority of the Gelug school today is invalid?
There's a very complete article that expounds this train of thought here. It presents astounding logic - a must read for anyone wanting to better understand the illogical basis of the Dorje Shugden ban. I highly recommend it, before simply throwing statements about the Shugden practice being 'incorrect' or unapplicable - the converse has far more damaging consequences.
Has the Gelug Lineage Lost its Effectiveness?
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/has-the-gelug-lineage-lost-its-effectiveness/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/has-the-gelug-lineage-lost-its-effectiveness/)
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Tenzin Gyatso, it is important to get an objective perspective on the controversy, looking at it from the outside without an emotionally charged interest in either party. Such perspective sees that actions speak for themselves. I stepped back and had a good look, and saw how easy it is for people to get so emotionally fired up they miss he point completely.
Though there are many facets to the controversy, the fact of the matter is, the main and most important thing to acknowledge is it boils down to very well-documented religious and human rights abuses. It is so strange to me how a person can be so obsessed with a popular personality that they refuse to see how what is actually going on is totally inappropriate, destructive, and disrespectful. When we look at the situation objectively, here is what you typically see:
One group of people(Group A) - through coercion, death threats, economic threats, shrine and home destruction, ostracism and so forth - forcing another group of people(Group B) to stop their religious practices and give up their human rights.
Group B peacefully communicates the damage being done and requests the forced ban to be lifted; they peacefully and repeatedly request open dialogue and clarification; the peacefully demonstrate to encourage Group A to stop their abusive and destructive campaign; they provide excessive valid logical reasons for their religious views and so forth.
Group A disregards all these things, and quite simply engages in actions that clearly contradict the BuddhaDharma; contradict basic human and religious rights; contradict common sense.
If some popular teacher came along and told Christians they had to stop believing in Christ and gave all sorts of ridiculous superstitious reasons why they have to do this and constantly contradicted themselves in the process, then forced the ban through various illegal and harmful actions, only someone who was not in their right mind would think this is ok. I mean Jeezus, this isn't rocket science people.
I can understand why some people (out of fear of the extensive negative repercussions of not doing so) would tow the party line and go along with the ban. However, to those free thinkers who are not necessarily impacted directly by the negative consequences to ones life of not abandoning their religious right, people all over the world with objective common sense are forced to ask the question - wtf is wrong with these people?
So I'm asking you directly Tenzin Gyatso, in the light of so much evidence and sincere objective contemplation of the situation at hand, how is it possible for a "Buddhist" to look at this situation and be so intensely supportive of actions that completely contradict the Dharma and cause intense harm to living beings?
I ask, because when I give a non-biased explanation of the circumstances to non-Buddhist friends of mine, its a no-brainer for them. So do please explain to all of us here reading your posts, as a Buddhist who strongly supports all the intense non-virtue arisen from this ban, how have you come to have complete disregard for empirical evidence of human and religious rights abuse? How have you come to the conclusion that this shit is ok for Buddhists to do? Seriously, all the deity/demon stuff and who's who aside(totally irrelevant really), the reality of abuse laid bare, how can anyone in their right mind think this shit is ok?
The controversy really isn't about Dorje Shugden after all, it's about Freedom vs. a Destruction of Freedom that has destroyed the reputation of Buddhadharma and the faith and lives of many.
Seriously Tenzin Gyatso, why is it so hard for Buddhists to be kind? I know, it sounds fucking crazy right!
It doesn't have to be like this.
With Much Sincere Love,
psylotripitaka
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The points put forward by Tenzin Gyatso seem to make sense as he caused confusion by relating Lamas of very different eras.
However, it is so illogical for him to even mention the points he put through that Shugdenpas chose to believe in Trijang Rinpoche instead of Tsongkapa.
He seem to forget that Dorje Shugden arose to protect the doctrine of Tsongkapa and the Guru of Pabongka Rinpoche, Tagpu Rinpoche received the scriptures of Dorje Shugden directly from Tsongkapa in Tushita and he then passed to Pabongkapa Rinpoche and to Trijang Rinpoche.
Propitiating Dorje Shugden is to follow the doctrine of Je Tsongkapa.
Very logical points are put through, great knowledge when we need to debate on logic with anti-Shugdenpas.