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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: Dorje Pakmo on June 26, 2012, 05:18:31 AM

Title: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: Dorje Pakmo on June 26, 2012, 05:18:31 AM

Dear friends, in Buddhism we are taught that it is important to avoid The Eight Worldly Concerns.

1.   Why is it important for one to be constantly mindful in avoiding The Eight Worldly Concerns?

2.   What will happen if we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with The Eight Worldly Concerns?

3.   What are the antidotes for one in order to avoid The Eight Worldly Concerns?

The Eight Worldly Concerns
Craving for pleasures of the six senses.
Craving to be free of the unpleasant.
Craving to hear sweet, ego-pleasing words or sounds.
Craving to not hear ugly, displeasing words or sounds.
Craving to acquire material things.
Craving to avoid losing or not obtaining material things.
Craving for personal praise and admiration.
Craving to avoid personal slander, blame and criticism.

Title: Re: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: Dhiman on June 26, 2012, 11:56:08 AM

The eight worldly concerns as taught by Buddha Syakamuni describes the ceaseless activities (revolving around a set of experiences) we develop towards abtaining short-term happiness - which is the main cause of our sufferings. These experiences are listed as the four sets of contrasting pairs:

The Eight Worldly Concerns
Craving for pleasures of the six senses. [Pleasure]
Craving to be free of the unpleasant. [Pain]
Craving to hear sweet, ego-pleasing words or sounds. [Fame]
Craving to not hear ugly, displeasing words or sounds. [Disgrace]
Craving to acquire material things. [Gain]
Craving to avoid losing or not obtaining material things. [Loss]
Craving for personal praise and admiration. [Praise]
Craving to avoid personal slander, blame and criticism. [Blame]

When we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with the eight worldly concerns, we allow ourselves to be governed by the fluctuations of our emotions. We are confined in the trap that we set for ourselves known as comfort zones, where we welcome the positive and reject the negative. This situation blinds us from realizing our great human potential that will only arise through the acceptance of negative experiences.

If we sincerely wish to liberate ourselves from the eight worldly concerns, we should focus on practising the Eight Verses of Training the Mind (by Kadampa Geshe Langri Tangpa) (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1292). Upholding this training firmly allows us to achieve equanimity - a non-dual and composed mind that does not see things as "like or dislike", "good or bad" etc. This state of mind allows us to find the correct action based on the demand of any situations.

Title: Re: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: bambi on June 26, 2012, 12:43:14 PM

The Eight Worldly Dharmas are being concerned with:

Getting what you want, and avoiding getting what you do not want
Wanting (instant) happiness, and not wanting unhappiness
Wanting fame, and not wanting to be unknown
Wanting praise, and not wanting blame.

The Buddha taught in the Lokavipatti Sutta – The Failings of the World:
“Monks, these eight worldly conditions spin after the world, and the world spins after these eight worldly conditions. Which eight? Gain, loss, status, disgrace, censure, praise, pleasure, & pain. These are the eight worldly conditions that spin after the world, and the world spins after these eight worldly conditions.

Gain/loss, status/disgrace, censure/praise, pleasure/pain: these conditions among human beings are inconstant, impermanent, subject to change. Knowing this, the wise person, mindful, ponders these changing conditions. Desirable things don’t charm the mind, undesirable ones bring no resistance. His welcoming & rebelling are scattered, gone to their end, do not exist. Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state, he discerns rightly, has gone, beyond becoming, to the Further Shore.

It is definitely important because it will suck us deeper into creating more negative karma and non virtuous actions. We perceive that it is happiness because we are addicted to being slaves to desire, wanting more once we get a taste of it. 

For eg. An alcoholic finds it very hard to stop drinking because the desire for it is so strong. His mind thinks that he will be happy once he have alcohol. But there are consequences from the result of alcohol, eg.accident, fighting, quarrels, etc.

When we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with it, we are the slaves that keeps on feeding and feeding the desire hence our attachment. And because we are attached to the so called happiness, we keep looking for more things to keep us happy. And when we don't get what we want, we become hostile, depressed, angry but don't forget, we ourselves created that attachment and result of that is being born in the three lower realms. Be mindful and remember the teachings always. Be kind, forgiving, loving but most of all, humility.  ;D

Title: Re: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: shugdenprotect on June 26, 2012, 01:06:52 PM

I believe it is important for us to consciously avoid the 8 worldly concerns because the presence of these concerns will taint the purity of our intentions, i.e. we will not develop the ability to practice true Boddhicitta whereby we sincerely put priority in benefiting others with no personal gain.

If we indulge in the 8 worldly concerns, I believe that we will create a strong and deep habituation to commit non-virtuous actions. This will in turn guarantee a rebirth back into samsara. The scary thing is, each time we return, there is a high possibility that we will dwell deeper into the negative habitations that we have “practiced till perfect” lifetime after lifetime. Based on the law of karma, we will not only have rebirth in samsara…but we will also go to the lower realms within samsara.

Dharma is the perfect antidote. However, making it simple, I read that sincere, strict and consistent practice of moral discipline can certainly help us develop a conscious and conscientious mind to avoid engaging in non-virtuous actions that are plagued by the 8 worldly concerns. 

Title: Re: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: vajratruth on June 26, 2012, 09:17:01 PM

Why is it important for one to be constantly mindful in avoiding The Eight Worldly Concerns?

It is important to always remember that it is the thoughts and actions based on these 8 Worldly Concerns that creates all our problems and unhappiness. All we will think about are seeking short term happiness in this life only. These thoughts feed the poisonous mind that we are born with and lead us to create actions that are non-dharmic and non-virtues.  They feed our ego, they build on our selfish mind and they enhance our desires in things of this world and in this life. In other words, they create the causes for us to be reborn in the lower realms.

What will happen if we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with The Eight Worldly Concerns?

If we were to be preoccupied by the 8 Worldly Concerns, we will build on our attachments instead of learning to let go of our attachments. Attachments to things in this life is the core of all our sufferings. When our lives are govern by this 8 desires, we are in fact no better than animals. Look carefully and you will see that animals respond to things that allow them to cling on to this life.

With the 8 Worldly Concerns the only subject matter that is important is ourselves. This is the complete opposite to the Dharma that teaches us to cultivate a habit of creating benefits not only for ourselves but also to other sentient beings.

What are the antidotes for one in order to avoid The Eight Worldly Concerns?

Dharma is the only antidote that can prevail against this concerns that builds on our self-cherishing. In my opinion, the training in the Eight Verses Of Mid Transformation is the perfect antidote. These 8 verses teach as follows:

(i)
With a determination to accomplish
the highest welfare for all sentient beings,
Who surpass even a wish-granting jewel,
I will learn to hold them supremely dear.

(ii)
Whenever I associate with others, I will learn
to think of myself as the lowest among all,
And respectfully hold others as being supreme,
From the depth of my heart.

(iii)
In all actions, I will learn to search into my own mind,
And as soon as an afflictive emotion arises,
Endangering myself and others,
I will firmly face and avert it

(iv)
I will cherish beings of bad nature,
And those oppressed by strong negativities and sufferings,
As if I had found a precious treasure
Very difficult to find.

(v)
When others, out of jealousy, treat me badly
With abuse, slander and so on,
I will learn to take all loss
And offer the victory to them.

(vi)
When one whom I have benefited with great hope
Unreasonably hurts me very badly,
I will learn to view that person
As an excellent spiritual guide.

(vii)
In short, I will learn to offer to everyone without exception
All help and happiness directly and indirectly,
And secretly take upon myself
All the harms and suffering of my mothers.

(viii)
I will learn to keep all these practices
Undefiled by the stains of the eight worldly conceptions,
And, by understanding all phenomena to be like illusions,
I will be released from the bondage of attachment.

Title: Re: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: Vajraprotector on June 26, 2012, 09:18:12 PM

1.   Why is it important for one to be constantly mindful in avoiding The Eight Worldly Concerns?
- One of Atisha’s followers, the great meditator and Kadampa master Sharawa, states that all negative actions arise from the thought of the eight worldly dharmas. As long as this is not renounced but remains in the mind, all suffering will arise. He makes it clear that it doesn’t matter who we are, all the problems of our life are caused by the thought of the eight worldly dharmas. If we don’t renounce the thought of the eight worldly dharmas we will always experience so many problems and be unable to develop our mind.
 
- Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo compares the eight worldly dharmas to a female cannibal. A female cannibal is very sweet at the beginning, saying very nice words, telling us she loves us and that she wants to take care of us. But if we trust her, we will be controlled by her and afterwards she will eat us. This is exactly the same as samsaric perfections.


2.   What will happen if we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with The Eight Worldly Concerns?
- No matter how much Dharma we know, how much meditation we do, we are always creating negative karma. It is our most dangerous enemy, not just because it brings us confusion and suffering in this life, but more because it is the main cause for rebirth in the lower realms, causing us to suffer there for many eons.


3.   What are the antidotes for one in order to avoid The Eight Worldly Concerns?
- When this inner enemy arises, without following it or letting it control us, without becoming a slave to it, we should always be conscious of it, and then use all our understanding to destroy it.

- If we thoroughly investigate we will see that every problem we have ever faced, and every problem that everybody has ever experienced, comes from this thought clinging to the happiness of this life, this desire for temporal pleasures. We can take our investigation beyond our own problems to the problems that others face—our family and friends, the people we work with and so on—checking whether their problems also stem from the thought of the eight worldly dharmas. In doing so we can become so much more aware of the very nature of mind.

Answers extracted from a talk by Lama Zopa Rinpoche, How to Practice Dharma: Teachings on the Eight Worldly Dharmas

Title: Re: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: Big Uncle on June 27, 2012, 12:41:14 AM

1.   Why is it important for one to be constantly mindful in avoiding The Eight Worldly Concerns?

It is important to avoid our mind being preoccupied by the 8 Worldly Concerns because that's what we have been doing without the Dharma. It is the very traits that brings us down and causes us to have that mindset of selfishness and thereby causing us to have negative selfish mind that creates negative karma. That's what it is. The 8 worldly concerns is all about selfishness and if we know the Dharma, we would immediately take steps to cut down on the 8 worldly concerns. And we must realize by now, the faults of such a mindset and be ready to take on such a mindset.

2.   What will happen if we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with The Eight Worldly Concerns?
Well, we don't really have to allow. We are already preoccupied with the 8 worldly concerns all day long. It just takes a bit of honest reflection to realize how deeply entrenched our lives is with the 8 worldly concerns. And we hide behind excuses to justify our deep-seated selfishness. If we haven't committed to the Dharma and we able to do so, it is a reflection of how strong our selfish concerns are. If we are always bored and looking for excitement and entertainment, it is also part of the same selfish pattern and the list goes on. 

3.   What are the antidotes for one in order to avoid The Eight Worldly Concerns?
The antidote to the 8 worldly concerns is enshrined in 8 verses of thought transformation as mentioned in previous postings. All those are merely practices but the real antidote to the 8 worldly concerns if we have truly realized the faults of the 8 worldly mindset. If we have realized it and we really want to change and make a difference, then we study the 8 verses and put it into practice with actions that reflect the 8 verses. We may falter at times but we pick ourselves up again and keep on practicing until the 8 verse becomes natural for us.

Title: Re: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: ratanasutra on June 27, 2012, 09:43:09 AM

1.   Why is it important for one to be constantly mindful in avoiding The Eight Worldly Concerns?

Because our speech and actions are come from mind so we need to be mindful on what we are doing in order to avoid the eight worldly concerns.

Here is Lama Zopa Rinpoche’s teaching

‘Wordldy dharma and holy Dharma are difference. Any action of the body, speech and mind done with worldly concern, clinging to the happiness of this life is worldly dharma or non-virtue. Mantras and prayers may be holy Dharma but if the person’s action of reciting these is done with worldly concern, clinging to this life, it becomes worldly dharma. Such an action does not become holy Dharma. Actions done with renunciation of this life, without the attitude being possessed by worldly concern, are the pure holy Dharma.’

2.   What will happen if we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with The Eight Worldly Concerns?

We will not able to control our attachment and we will cling to it more so our life will be ups and downs. We will only have a temporary happiness due to the attachment to the eight worldly concerns whatever we do it will be just to serve the eight worldly concerns and of course we will not able to gain enlightenment in this life and will take rebirth in the lower place in future life.
 
 3.   What are the antidotes for one in order to avoid The Eight Worldly Concerns?

In order to avoid from the eight worldly concerns we must think that what we see is from our deluded mind. Fame, name and what we achieve are not the true happiness and nothing is last, everything is impermanent, it will be fade, gone off when time pass by. 

Title: Re: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: Dondrup Shugden on June 27, 2012, 10:46:59 AM

One must be constantly mindful in avoiding The Eight Wordly Concerns.

First of all we are always very concerned with How we look, How others perceive us, How can we get what we want in order to be happy.

In being mindful of the eight worldly concerns, and not fall into the trap, we become more natural ungoverned by what or how we impress people and material gains.  Being in such a state will definitely bring out the Buddha nature in us.

If we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with The Eight Wordly Concerns.

If we allow the above to happen, we will always be about ourselves and we create negativities of ME, MY and MINE.

We will become selfish, conniving and untrue to our real self. We will become delusional about all that is happening around us, and our possessions.

This conduct will result in loneliness as a result of not have cared for or being not compassionate to anyone or anything.

Antidotes for one in order to avoid The Eight Wordly Concerns.
As taught by all great Buddhist Masters, have the PURPOSE in life to live for the benefit of others from thoughts to deeds of generosity.

Live to eliminate sufferings for others by kindness, care, compassion and generosity.
 

Title: Re: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: Tianni on June 27, 2012, 11:58:47 AM

1.   Why is it important for one to be constantly mindful in avoiding The Eight Worldly Concerns?
 Because it make us weak and there are traps because they are temporary phenomena, impermanent and is the cause of suffering . Just like when we bought a new luxury car, we feel very happy because it create an image of ourselves, however when your best friend accidentally dent it, you are angry and sad,  because you are angry, you may said something bad to him, negative karma created.

2.   What will happen if we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with The Eight Worldly Concerns
Take rebirth into lower realm.

3.    What are the antidotes for one in order to avoid The Eight Worldly Concerns?
8 verses of mind transformation

Title: Re: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: pgdharma on June 27, 2012, 02:21:38 PM

We must be constantly mindful in avoiding the Eight Worldly Concerns so that we may be aware to let go of our attachments to pleasure, fame, greed and ego. His Holiness the Dalai Lama states that if we avoid or turn away from The Eight Worldly Concerns in our spiritual practice, we can reduce suffering.

If we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with the Eight Worldly Concerns, we will create a self cherishing mind, filled with attachments and more sufferings.

The antidote to detach ourselves from the Eight Worldly concern is to  practice the 8 verses of mind transformation.

Title: Re: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: negra orquida on June 27, 2012, 04:13:06 PM

1.   Why is it important for one to be constantly mindful in avoiding The Eight Worldly Concerns?

There's a reason why those 8 preoccupations are called "worldly"... any person who wishes to properly go on the spiritual or dharma path would have a wish to be free or renounce worldly affairs, and is more concerned about what happens after this life. if we are not aware of or cannot recognise what is worldly and what is spiritual/dharma, then how can we go on the right track? Based on the Lamrim (Small Scope: Day 10 - The drawback that you will practice but not practice properly):

Quote

So if you yearn for worldly concerns, you are a worldly person; if you ignore this life you are a Dharma practitioner.

2.   What will happen if we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with The Eight Worldly Concerns?

We forget our spiritual practice, or don't practice properly, it becomes harder and harder for us to be reacquainted with the mind of renunciation and virtue. We don't achieve much spiritually and fall back snugly into our comfort zones in this life, and go to the lower realms in our next lives.

3.   What are the antidotes for one in order to avoid The Eight Worldly Concerns?

I dont think the antidote is about avoiding the 8 worldly concerns but more like identifying and overcoming them. the 8 worldly concerns are so deeply ingrained in us it is not possible to avoid what is already in our heads?

the 8 worldly concerns involve 2 extremes: like (attachment) and dislike (aversion), where our mind thinks its happy and unhappy based on what we think is nice and not nice.  having the 8 worldly concerns makes our mind go up and down like waves. so i think one of the antidotes is to develop equanimity, where there is no like or dislike, no nice or not nice, so our mind is calm and unperturbed by praise, shame, gain, loss etc.

referring back to the Lamrim, in answering Geshe Potowa's question on what differentiates non-Dharma and Dharma, Dromtoenpa replied:

Quote

It is Dharma if it becomes an antidote to delusions; it is not Dharma if it does not.  If all worldly people do not agree with it, it is Dharma; if they do, it is not Dharma.

Title: Re: Questions about the EIGHT WORLDLY CONCERNS
Post by: biggyboy on June 27, 2012, 05:21:46 PM

Why is it important for one to be constantly mindful in avoiding The Eight Worldly Concerns?
Avoiding these 8 mental states is considered important in Buddhist practice. They describe the ceaseless activities we develop towards short-term pleasures, which often not even result in pleasure.

What will happen if we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with The Eight Worldly Concerns?
From the point of view of karma, we usually behave contrary to our goals, because in order to receive what we want, we need to give others what they want. To avoid getting what we do not want, we should avoid giving others what they do not want and so on. So if we allow ourselves to be preoccupied with the Eight Worldly Concerns,  we will have a very strong self cherishing mind as very action we do is for our benefit.

What are the antidotes for one in order to avoid The Eight Worldly Concerns?
One should put into practice the Eight Verses of Thought Transformation.

The Buddha said "Do not commit any unwholesome actions, Accumulate virtuous deeds, Tame and train your own mind."