dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ensapa on May 03, 2012, 10:08:14 AM
-
I was reading through the blog of a Tibetan girl who stays in Dharamsala (and who blogs about things that sets her off) and I was quite surprised to find this post. It is filled with spelling mistakes tho, but she has a point.
#Tibetan shugden practitioners and western shugden followers belong in two entirely different categories.
Do Tibetan shugden practitioners face stigmatization in Tibetan communities? Hell Yes.
Are there misunderstandings between Tibetan sugden followers and non-followers? Fuck Yes.
Are there antagonistic behaviors on both sides? You better believe it.
Are (often times) white sugden followers the saviors of Tibetan sugden practitioners? NOPE. That’s what they CLAIM!
They claim to be following the Buddha Darma by antagonizing and victimizing an already oppressed group of people, the Tibetans. Further, they claim to put themselves on the same level as Tibetan sugden practitioners. Excuse me, but have you been practicing sugden for centuries in your family history tied in with village practice in Tibet? Um…the answer is NO! Also, you privileged yuppies do NOT live in Exile Tibetan community. So please stop putting yourselves on the same platform as Tibetan sugden practitioners in exile. You guys are NOT the same. You are still a bunch of white yuppies victimizing not only non sugden followers but also riding on the backs of Tibetan sugden followers.
Your idea of practicing the Buddha Darma is the constant joy you get in justifying the ongoing Colonization of Tibet and adding to the collective (practicing and non practicing sugden followers) sufferings of the Tibetan people. We don’t need your “white mans (sick) burden, white man know better” bullocks.
She is angry that certain Dorje Shugden practitioners who are not Tibetan think that they know everything about Dorje Shugden and act in certain ways that end up damaging both sides of the Tibetan community....
Sadly, in some ways, as rude as she may sound, it is true as some people in this forum have displayed. Perhaps it is feedback that we can use constructively to support our brothers and sisters in Dharamsala more efficiently?
-
Around Dharamsala and also across the rest of the diaspora too... For non-Tibetan Asian practitioners as well as Western practitioners, we can all think about this. It is possible for everyone to be sensitive/aware of the social impact on the most affected communities/ordained groups and temper their thoughts and words. May the truth prevail, may all practice freely between groups and may harmony abound across all differences.
-
They claim to be following the Buddha Darma by antagonizing and victimizing an already oppressed group of people, the Tibetans. Further, they claim to put themselves on the same level as Tibetan sugden practitioners. Excuse me, but have you been practicing sugden for centuries in your family history tied in with village practice in Tibet? Um…the answer is NO! Also, you privileged yuppies do NOT live in Exile Tibetan community. So please stop putting yourselves on the same platform as Tibetan sugden practitioners in exile. You guys are NOT the same. You are still a bunch of white yuppies victimizing not only non sugden followers but also riding on the backs of Tibetan sugden followers.
Your idea of practicing the Buddha Darma is the constant joy you get in justifying the ongoing Colonization of Tibet and adding to the collective (practicing and non practicing sugden followers) sufferings of the Tibetan people. We don’t need your “white mans (sick) burden, white man know better” bullocks.
Unless we are in the shoes of the Tibetan Shugden practitioners like the Tibetan girl, we will not realize the actual sufferings that they are going through since the ban on Dorje Shugden was imposed. The Western Shugden practitioners concerned should be sensitive to the Tibetan Shugden practitioners. They should not antagonize or offend others. It is simply not Buddhist to behave that way. Love your fellow Dorje Shugden practitioners; don’t sink the same boat you are in!
-
Unless we are in the shoes of the Tibetan Shugden practitioners like the Tibetan girl, we will not realize the actual sufferings that they are going through since the ban on Dorje Shugden was imposed. The Western Shugden practitioners concerned should be sensitive to the Tibetan Shugden practitioners. They should not antagonize or offend others. It is simply not Buddhist to behave that way. Love your fellow Dorje Shugden practitioners; don’t sink the same boat you are in!
In my opinion, there is a very wide gap and distance between the western and tibetan Dorje Shugden practitioners. Asians are in general more reserved and they will not be the one to oppose or form their own opinion and be respectful towards other cultures and tolerate them. Take Jamseng Rinpoche's students for example, they do not draw attention to themselves with the Dorje Shugden issue at all.
In bulldozing their beliefs into the CTA, they give a very bad name to the tibetan practitioners and also hurt their feelings as the Tibetan practitioners are not and will never be against HHDL. And of course, this causes the tibetan ones to suffer more as it proves everyone's negative perception about them right again. So the discrimination is intensified and they get more ostracized than before.
It would be better to take care of the practitioners rather than to use them in a way to get media attention because they happen to be Tibetan and Dorje Shugden practitioners. That action hurts the community a lot and causes a huge rift between the tibetan and western practitioners. This is what the tibetan blogger is angry about because in a way it is merely exploitation.
Last but not least, DS practice is fairly new outside of Tibet while it is very established in Tibet and to ask people to give up something that has been practiced for hundreds of years or face repercussions is somewhat cruel to a degree and when non tibetan practitioners complain and make it a huge issue, it is rubbing it in the faces of the Tibetans and that is not a very nice thing to do..
anyway, those are just my observations.
-
I am not surprised that the Tibetan girl reacted that way. Coming from different sides of the globe, from two different cultures and histories, it is only natural that Tibetan and Western Shugden practitioners do not see eye to eye on the methods they use to overcome the problem of this ban.
The Tibetans have real life experience of what it is like to be on the hate list of others, with real danger of bodily harm from the anti-shugden side. Whereas in the West, it is all about freedom of speech and religion, and the right of protest.
I know for a fact that some of the Western Shugden Society are operating under instructions from Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, to hold protests, mini riots, all in the name of upholding Dorje Shugden's practice. I do not agree with this method, but if they are doing all this for guru devotion, how can I fault them? I am sure Geshe-la has his reasons for doing so, and I know for a fact that it is his instructions because his students have sent an invitation to participate in such protests.
I can only dream of the day when the ban is abolished and Shugden and non shugden practitioners alike can exist in harmony and peace again, without fear...
-
Ouch. That hurt because I guess I am one of the nouveau Shugden practitioners who that Tibetan girl mentioned. I’m comfortable here in my lovely little flat with my little altar to Dorje Shugden. There is no history of Shugden practice in my family and I can practise freely here where nobody gives a flying toss what I’m praying to. I can go out to Hyde Park tomorrow morning and scream “I love Dorje Shugden” and nobody will blink. But I do know that the Tibetans in their refugee camps or even their communities in foreign countries like US do not have my freedom to practise. Saying that, I hope that Tibetans do not tar all “white yuppy” Shugden practitioners with the same brush. If the Tibetans are not happy with the protests in the west – the purpose was to benefit Tibetans by raising awareness of the ban. It did NOT benefit any Westerners because we ARE free to practise. As Thor said, the Western protests were orchestrated/instructed by a Tibetan teacher – Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, and I am sure the intention was sincerely to pressure the Tibetan Government in Exile and HH the Dalai Lama to lift the ban on Dorje Shugden practice. Whether Tibetans believe this or not, western Shugden practitioners are not your enemy.
We are all Shugden practitioners – whether Tibetan or Western or Tibetans in the West. Does it really matter if my parents practised or not? We should be in harmony together always – isn’t that what Buddhism is about?
-
Happy Wesak 2012 , to all ! May the light of the Buddha Dharma spread in ten directions , illuminating the ignorance of all beings !
Common everybody let's just agree to disagree for once. I totally agree with Wisdom Being , that we western DS practitioners have total freedom to practice unlike our unfortunate tibetans brothers and sisters. So who do you think we are doing what we are doing for ?
Can't you guys see that this IS precisely the cause of the entire suffering . That the poor victims feel sorry about themselves and can't do anything about it and the bullies think that they are the just ! Look ! Buddha's teachings never taught us to cause suffering onto others and and those victims to STAY victims .
Wake up ! DS practitioner or NOT we are all Buddhist ! Stop to think why we are suffering OR causing suffering ? Neither the Buddha OR even HHDL wants us to behave this way , IF both sides JUST let go ...,the whole saga will cease to exist ! Tibetans DS practitioners please know this..... , no one can take away your faith in DORJE SHUGDEN ! And for non DS practioner s , your gurus never wanted you to PERSECUTE your own Dharma brothers or sisters OR any beings for that matter.
I sincerely wish AND pray that on this auspicious day , when ENLIGHTENMENT is made achievable by all beings , that we SEE through this darkness together as ONE ! HAPPY WESAK ?
-
I am not surprised that the Tibetan girl reacted that way. Coming from different sides of the globe, from two different cultures and histories, it is only natural that Tibetan and Western Shugden practitioners do not see eye to eye on the methods they use to overcome the problem of this ban.
The Tibetans have real life experience of what it is like to be on the hate list of others, with real danger of bodily harm from the anti-shugden side. Whereas in the West, it is all about freedom of speech and religion, and the right of protest.
I know for a fact that some of the Western Shugden Society are operating under instructions from Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, to hold protests, mini riots, all in the name of upholding Dorje Shugden's practice. I do not agree with this method, but if they are doing all this for guru devotion, how can I fault them? I am sure Geshe-la has his reasons for doing so, and I know for a fact that it is his instructions because his students have sent an invitation to participate in such protests.
I can only dream of the day when the ban is abolished and Shugden and non shugden practitioners alike can exist in harmony and peace again, without fear...
In a way, it might have been very uncomfortable for the tibetan exiled practitioners to see that their issue is being magnified and intensified, but what I feel irks them is that most of these tibetan practitioners are still a strong supporter of HHDL and the protest against HHDL does irk them in more ways than one because it does not represent their wishes. They felt sidelined as their wishes was not respected.
GKG has a plan with the protest, and it is to raise awareness of the ban on a bigger and larger scale than before. the CTA has a very bad habit of keeping everything and everyone in the dark and there is very little transparency in their government since the beginning. In lieu of that, the protests force CTA and the tibetan community in exile to acknowledge this fact and face it.
The protest worked in many ways but unfortunately at the cost of both the tibetan and western Dorje Shugden practitioners who are now viewed as violent and anti Dalai Lama (which some people see it as a bad thing) but it did raise the awareness which will provoke people to research, read and learn up on Dorje Shugden and the real nature of the ban in the long run.
Right now, what is important for both chapters of practitioners is unity and to show the results of our practice by being harmonious and more spiritually advanced than those who follow the ban to its extremes because with Dorje Shugden by our side and our material and spiritual needs being met, we should be able to progress in our individual Dharma practice faster than those who are too busy being the Dharma police.
-
That's right! Foreigners are always so self-righteous about their beliefs and they don't even realize the cultural and social difference between their own liberal societies that allows for loud protests. Tibetan society is very different. To some, it is archaic and backwards but to the Tibetans, it is all about authority, it is respect for the Sangha and High Lamas.
The ban has had a huge impact on Tibetan society, thus polarising society between practitioners and non-practitioners. The segregation has huge impact for many families and sometimes tearing them apart and splitting close childhood friends. This is not to mention the terrible expulsions going on in the monasteries and the splitting of centuries old monastic institutions. And the monks cannot say anything and very few dare to protest against their senior monks. Nobody dares to do anything as there's dire social and spiritual consequences.
-
The Tibetan girl is absolutely right about foreigners who does not understand what Tibetans are going through with this Dorje Shugden ban because it was not practiced by us foreigners for generations. It must be really heartbreaking to wake up one morning to learn that what you have practiced is not allowed anymore and that you are discriminated against in your own community.
We foreigners may be new in this practice but we are sincere and now how beneficial this practice is for us and many. Dorje Shugden is the protector of this degenerating age and what we are doing is not to hurt the Tibetan community even more, but to try to fight for justice and alleviate the sorrows and grief in the Tibetan community.
It also does not help when the CTA are politicising the situation and deviate attention of the people. As much as we are to blame for sticking our nose into this situation, we did it not because we wanted to be the savior of the day but a support for the Tibetans.
-
We are live in different parts of the world, and we all have different cultures. Also, Dorje Shugden practitioners in Tibet or India who suffer so much because of the ban are having totally different experience with practitioners else where.
Can you imagine you are denied basic necessities like food, schools, hospital, etc because you practice Dorje Shugden? The hardship will not be something we can imagine.
As such, PEACE is the key here. We should unite and work towards the ban to be lifted. We should not fight within ourselves.
Also, whatever they suffer, such as the discrimination in the monasteries, etc, we should inform the rest of the world because we are more well verse with internet and social media.
-
What I would really love to see and for all of us to work on is more synergy between the western and tibetan practitioners, that they assimilate each other's views and be more understanding with whats going on around. If we both practice the same lineage and protector it would make a lot more sense to have a common goal and a common ground rather than differing views.
Why not that we support each other and we find out more about what the tibetan practitioners are thinking and feeling, and then take those into account before we mount smear campaigns against HHDL? (Very effective, but as ive said, it also hurts the tibetan practitioners deeply as they also revere HHDL) but i guess what needs to happen, happens and no one can be blamed.
If its only one group of Dorje Shugden practitioners practicing and the other is not or showing different views, it just proves to the non DS practitioners that DS is bad and sectarian: they would say that it is proof that DS is sectarian because his supports are split into 2 different groups...so it proves their point in more ways than one. If we can fill up that gap, we can prove them wrong and give them one less reason to attack us.
At the end of the day, it is results that will change people. It would be the results from our protector practice that people will base their decision on if Dorje Shugden is good or bad. Words and delusions can only last for a short while before results blow them off. Then the ban will have to be lifted as empty words cannot hide something for long. That, I feel, helps to lift the ban faster.
-
Hmmm great post to get people thinking...I have to say that by the sounds of everyone's post your not from the west???
Having said that...is that not a subtle form of discrimination??? in an indirect sort of way that practitioners from the west are self right-self wrong...culturally insensitive??? low level practitioners???
Actually its funny that the west gets a big rep for the world's problems and inconveniently forgotten for positive benefits given in return. I am not saying that all actions from the west have been good there's been some blunders for sure but everyone has skeletons in the closet..irregardless of where you are from.
Look a bit deeper and you will find a few exceptional characters(from the West) in the early 19th and 20th century that did some exceptional things preserving Tibetan Culture and precious Teachings from Monasteries pre-post Tibet 1959.
Western practitioners that learnt Tibetan Culture, learnt Classical Tibetan, modern Tibetan, Sanskrit, were the first translators for HHDL and other Lama's coming to the west as well as translating the entire Pali cannon (Buddha's Words) into English.
Do a little research and you will find some interesting stories...to change your perspective or at the very least be a little more respectful of the translation work that you may have read and derived some benefit from already.
You didn't need to learn a new language or culture? to learn the basics didn't have to travel to Tibet many times to secure the wooden templates, print, digitize, create libraries and special places to preserve this knowledge before it was lost. Funny just now I had thought that their stories are no different to Marpa the translator of old but for us in modern times. Apart from the Monks who walked out of Tibet with these precious teachings or were the living libraries of these teachings (Trijang Rinpoche and taught others). One such translator Maurice Walshe was the catalyst to preserve and in some cases monks gifted him these wooden blocks to translate and preserve before they were lost. Another example on this website Glenn Mullin in Mongolia.
No disrepect to Miss Tibet (or western yuppies) practicing just for yourself is not what Buddha or DS wants from us in my humble opinion and definitely doesn't compare to living lineage masters that are living embodiments of the teachings and their Lineages.
My question? Why do you have to have generations of family practicing DS to be a real practitioner? Doesn't make sense to me, having known Buddhist practitioners 3rd generation but with zero dharma knowledge and these exceptional people with zero family history doing much, much, more to preserve Dharma for everyone.
It is so easy for western people to read translation of the various sutras etc at our fingertips online downloaded at our leisure...So yes I count myself very lucky, HHDL was asked a question why he taught predominantly in Tibetan to Tibetans from a western student at a teaching he was giving in Tibetan at that time and I think his comment was that their was not nearly the same availability of teachings for Tibetans to access and understand like we do in the West.
PS I am not a yuppie do gooder wanting to save everyone! I am a below the radar practitioner I love the dharma and teachings I have received because they work for me and what little benefit I have gotten in my practice I want more results...
xo
-
Nice post, Dsdisciple,
I believe that her point was not that western practitioners cannot practice Dorje Shugden, or if it means that the westerners are inferior, but at the way they reacted towards HHDL after the ban was implemented was very insensitive towards Tibetan sentiments and caused more harm than good to their community. The sad part is, the same thing can also be observed here in this forum.
If we can erase the seam that comes between us Dorje Shugden practitioners, between the ones at HHDL's camp and the ones that are not at that camp, I believe we can all generate the force and pressure for HHDL to lift the ban as there are more and more people needing Dorje Shugden as the degenerate age closes in. They need a support and guide powerful enough to pull them out of their own delusions.
Even in this forum alone, there is a very clear example of how the pro HHDL posters get questioned and interrogated by those who are against HHDL in this matter in sometimes very rude ways, ways that show that they only want to prove the pro HHDL-ers wrong, or refuse to see the subtle meaning of the text and only taking in the text verbose and out of context just to prove a point.
If the CTA or HHDL reads those posts, they will be laughing really hard because it only proves their theories right that Dorje Shugden is a divisive protector. Both sides of the coin are actually still the same as we all practice the same Dharma protector and such division is not necessary. Lets just tolerate the fact that some of us feel that HHDL does have a greater purpose and some of us think HHDL is wrong but not rub it into each other's faces or argue in the threads...serves no purpose...
-
I'm not exactly sure what the white "yuppy" practitioners did to make situations worse for Tibetans. Let's put it this way, all Dorje Shugden practitioners are doing their best to lift the ban of the practice. The effects backfiring are not planned for.
Geshe la's students are only following his instructions. So I hope the Tibetan girl realises this. In a nutshell, my teacher always say that there's no one to blame, for the situations we're in or when we're treated in ways we do not like. This is all happening due to our own karma. As Buddhist practitioners we accept our karma and let go. No point blaming others.
Instead, we should focus on our practice and transform our mind.
-
We can see until the present moment, much have been done to lift the ban. But it is still not enough. There are many groups working in their own unique ways to help lift the ban. There must be greater unity and synergy as mentioned by Ensapa of all Western and Eastern DS practitioners. Unity is strength. Only through the combined force of every single DS practitioners in the World, working in harmony, with a single goal, can the ban be lifted sooner. There must be a well-thought-out global strategy or plan to lift the ban on DS. Would this global strategy or plan be possible and workable? Perhaps contributors in this forum can come up with suggestions on how this global strategy or plan can be implemented?
Some thoughts in my mind:
Establish a global website with a single goal on lifting the ban.
Get all the DS groups in the World today together to support the above-mentioned website.
Petition all the DS practitioners as well as anyone including organisations who support the lift of the ban to join the global cause.
This website will provide the latest updates on the work to lift the ban.
-
I think she is talking about us Westerners here and those non-Tibetans who are trying to help lift the ban. Well, at least there is action and not just talk.
As much as I think it's true that we Westerners will not completely understand what the Tibetans are going through, it sounded to me like she is rather in this state of wanting to vent, indulging in self-pity and bitterness. Shugden is not owned by Tibetans. Dorje Shugden is for everyone and anyone. Accept the karma and move on already.
The damaging part is not done by westerners whether they are Shugden followers or pro Dalai Lama followers. I came across many pro Dalai Lama Tibetan fanatics on facebook being rude to me for practicing Shugden. Misunderstandings between Shugden followers and non-followers exist in non-Tibetan community, excuse me!
-
We can see until the present moment, much have been done to lift the ban. But it is still not enough. There are many groups working in their own unique ways to help lift the ban. There must be greater unity and synergy as mentioned by Ensapa of all Western and Eastern DS practitioners. Unity is strength. Only through the combined force of every single DS practitioners in the World, working in harmony, with a single goal, can the ban be lifted sooner. There must be a well-thought-out global strategy or plan to lift the ban on DS. Would this global strategy or plan be possible and workable? Perhaps contributors in this forum can come up with suggestions on how this global strategy or plan can be implemented?
Some thoughts in my mind:
Establish a global website with a single goal on lifting the ban.
Get all the DS groups in the World today together to support the above-mentioned website.
Petition all the DS practitioners as well as anyone including organisations who support the lift of the ban to join the global cause.
This website will provide the latest updates on the work to lift the ban.
This website will be the only sole guiding light that will help lift the ban and end it sooner than expected because we do not focus on the politics that permeate the whole issue in the first place and focus solely on promoting Dorje Shugden as it is without any political undertones that tend to affect issues and articles that surround Dorje Shugden...and this makes the whole thing more focused.
Over time, there will be more and more groups and people that will demand that the ban be lifted. It would not just be a few demonstrations alone. there will be a lot more people and groups that will pressure HHDL and the CTA to remove this unethical ban because people who practice it will have results and there will be more and more people and more and more movements that would be in favor of Dorje Shugden.
Yes, we have some self professed crusaders that are in HHDL's camp that are extremely rude and in your face to us, and they create a lot of problems and become the Lama police for many high lamas out there and declaring that they are bad because they practice Dorje Shugden..but do we want to stoop down to their level? As they say, the low people drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience...
If we show the qualities that are opposite of what they display, I believe that we will garner more supporters and more positive people. There isnt much room for any of us to be hostile to each other or to put down each other's ideas. I dont think that the ban will be lifted if we start mud slinging at each other but it can be lifted if we show a gracious attitude towards HHDL and his supporters....
-
May the online locations, teachers, centres and institutions multiply and become countless, and the practice benefit huge numbers. It is a blessing to have the resources, encouragement and support that this website brings to practitioners in Asia and around the world.
May our words and actions always be calm and only beneficial towards all who are still suffering harassment and discrimination.
-
Yes, certainly interesting, and many points there to consider:
Firstly, I think in our zeal to save the world, many of us have the best of intentions but not quite good enough to discern what is really needed or what might really be helpful. Colonisation is all about this - a dominant nation going into another country and imposing their values / mores / behaviours and religion on the local people, all done quite possibly with that noble thought that they are "saving" these local people, helping to "civilise" them. This is what we're all doing really, to some degree or other - the way to hell is paved with good intentions.
Secondly, reading this girl's posting only reaffirms to me again that while we want to run out guns blazing against the ban, we're inevitably going to burn someone, somehow along the way - is it really worth it, just to make a point? Just to have our voices heard? All our zealous championing becomes insensitive after a while - we think we know what other people need, having no concept of how they really live or how vastly different their backgrounds are to ours. Also, in protesting against one Lama or one group (the Dalai Lama in this case), you will 100% completely totally most definitely upset someone and their practice, shake their faith, hurt them by what you are saying about their Lama and their spiritual choices. We forget, perhaps, that not all non-Shugdenpas are bad. In protesting or using such "active" means to protest the ban, we risk turning into the very people we hate. We become the mirror image to all those anti-shugden people who run riot attacking Shugdenpas.
So (and I have said this countless times), I still hold firm that the approach of this website has been best in preserving the lineage while "protesting" the ban in the most peaceful, non-intrusive way. The effects may take longer, and our voices may not be belted out as loudly as it would be over a loudspeaker (or in a mass demonstration), but it is a steady voice. It is peaceful. This voice "protests" the ban not by speaking about how bad the ban is but by speaking about how truly good the Dharmapala, his practice and his practitioners really are. There is the promotion and education of his history, the Lamas who practice him, the benefits he brings to people and stories of how doing his practice has helped people tremendous. By all this positivity - like a clear lake - the badness, like a drop of ink, is diluted and drowned out.
In this way too, you don't presume to know what others are going through and try to speak for them. You also don't upset anyone's individual practice or their relationship with their teachers and spiritual communities. Instead, bring positivity and hope to the situation, directing people to look at the good of the issue rather than the bad. This works, all round, I think, to educate, inspire, give hope and lend support to practitioners without making assumptions about what they do or don't need.
A round of applause for the website folks again for showing us this alternative uplifting, positive way of responding to the many issues surrounding this practice and the ban.
-
Yes, certainly interesting, and many points there to consider:
Firstly, I think in our zeal to save the world, many of us have the best of intentions but not quite good enough to discern what is really needed or what might really be helpful. Colonisation is all about this - a dominant nation going into another country and imposing their values / mores / behaviours and religion on the local people, all done quite possibly with that noble thought that they are "saving" these local people, helping to "civilise" them. This is what we're all doing really, to some degree or other - the way to hell is paved with good intentions.
Secondly, reading this girl's posting only reaffirms to me again that while we want to run out guns blazing against the ban, we're inevitably going to burn someone, somehow along the way - is it really worth it, just to make a point? Just to have our voices heard? All our zealous championing becomes insensitive after a while - we think we know what other people need, having no concept of how they really live or how vastly different their backgrounds are to ours. Also, in protesting against one Lama or one group (the Dalai Lama in this case), you will 100% completely totally most definitely upset someone and their practice, shake their faith, hurt them by what you are saying about their Lama and their spiritual choices. We forget, perhaps, that not all non-Shugdenpas are bad. In protesting or using such "active" means to protest the ban, we risk turning into the very people we hate. We become the mirror image to all those anti-shugden people who run riot attacking Shugdenpas.
So (and I have said this countless times), I still hold firm that the approach of this website has been best in preserving the lineage while "protesting" the ban in the most peaceful, non-intrusive way. The effects may take longer, and our voices may not be belted out as loudly as it would be over a loudspeaker (or in a mass demonstration), but it is a steady voice. It is peaceful. This voice "protests" the ban not by speaking about how bad the ban is but by speaking about how truly good the Dharmapala, his practice and his practitioners really are. There is the promotion and education of his history, the Lamas who practice him, the benefits he brings to people and stories of how doing his practice has helped people tremendous. By all this positivity - like a clear lake - the badness, like a drop of ink, is diluted and drowned out.
In this way too, you don't presume to know what others are going through and try to speak for them. You also don't upset anyone's individual practice or their relationship with their teachers and spiritual communities. Instead, bring positivity and hope to the situation, directing people to look at the good of the issue rather than the bad. This works, all round, I think, to educate, inspire, give hope and lend support to practitioners without making assumptions about what they do or don't need.
A round of applause for the website folks again for showing us this alternative uplifting, positive way of responding to the many issues surrounding this practice and the ban.
Thanks so much, Beggar, for your wonderful input on this matter. This is the whole reason why I decided to share this feedback here: because it gives us feedback on whether or not our approach is correct or not correct, whether or not someone suffers as a result of our actions and how are people affected by our choices and decisions, and how can we improve on it and what can we do to minimize causalities.
I have mentioned before that the original feedback is much more harsh and it does point fingers directly on WSS directly (which I have removed as it is not relevant to the content), and even though they are following their Guru's advice, it does not mean that they do not need to take precautions on how to minimize the hurt towards the Tibetan practitioners, and also research to understand the community better.
As much as it is fun and nice to find a figure that we can all focus on our hate on, but in doing that we are no different than FPMT and the other "crusaders" who have nothing better to do than to attack others because they have nothing better to do with their lives. And incidentally, we can all see how much spiritual progress these people have which is close to none...so, yup.
I am aware that on the surface everything looks like it is HHDL's fault for banning Dorje Shugden, but we have to look at everything from the bigger picture and look at all the odd and contradicting statements that HHDL has been making, as if they are trying to tell us that they do not enjoy doing this. Why else would HHDL keep Samdhong Rinpoche who is a recognized emanation of Dorje Shugden as a close aide? And the contradicting statements on the website....reading between the lines gives us a bigger perspective on things....
-
Gautama Buddha's advice...
Not sure if this story should be in this thread but thought it was relevant for us all :D
" Gautama Buddha was insulted once. He was passing by a village, and the villagers were against him and his supporters. There was no way to avoid or go around this village to get to where they needed to go.
It was impossible for the people of this village to comprehend what he was teaching. The people gathered and insulted him very much.
Buddha listened very silently and then he said:
"If you have finished, can I take my leave of you, because I have to reach the other village, and they must be waiting for me.
If you have not finished, then when I return tomorrow morning you can come again tomorrow and finish your job."
One man in the crowd asked, "Have you not heard us? We have been insulting you, abusing you. We have been using all kinds of dirty words, anything that we can find."
Buddha laughed, He said:
"You have come a little late. You should have come 10 years ago. Then I was in the same frame of mind as you are; then I would have replied well. But now this is an opportunity for me to be compassionate, to be meditative.
I am thankful to you that you allowed this opportunity. This is just a test...a Test whether or not I have anything of the negative lurking in my unconscious mind.
And I am happy to declare to you friends, that not even a single shadow of negative has passed through my mind. I have remained utterly blissful, you have not been able to affect me in any way. And I am tremendously happy that you gave me such a great opportunity.
Very few people are as kind as you are."
extracted from a teaching given by Lama Yeshe.
xo
-
I was reading through the blog of a Tibetan girl who stays in Dharamsala (and who blogs about things that sets her off) and I was quite surprised to find this post. It is filled with spelling mistakes tho, but she has a point.
#Tibetan shugden practitioners and western shugden followers belong in two entirely different categories.
Do Tibetan shugden practitioners face stigmatization in Tibetan communities? Hell Yes.
Are there misunderstandings between Tibetan sugden followers and non-followers? Fuck Yes.
Are there antagonistic behaviors on both sides? You better believe it.
Are (often times) white sugden followers the saviors of Tibetan sugden practitioners? NOPE. That’s what they CLAIM!
They claim to be following the Buddha Darma by antagonizing and victimizing an already oppressed group of people, the Tibetans. Further, they claim to put themselves on the same level as Tibetan sugden practitioners. Excuse me, but have you been practicing sugden for centuries in your family history tied in with village practice in Tibet? Um…the answer is NO! Also, you privileged yuppies do NOT live in Exile Tibetan community. So please stop putting yourselves on the same platform as Tibetan sugden practitioners in exile. You guys are NOT the same. You are still a bunch of white yuppies victimizing not only non sugden followers but also riding on the backs of Tibetan sugden followers.
Your idea of practicing the Buddha Darma is the constant joy you get in justifying the ongoing Colonization of Tibet and adding to the collective (practicing and non practicing sugden followers) sufferings of the Tibetan people. We don’t need your “white mans (sick) burden, white man know better” bullocks.
She is angry that certain Dorje Shugden practitioners who are not Tibetan think that they know everything about Dorje Shugden and act in certain ways that end up damaging both sides of the Tibetan community....
It is true that the Shugden-ban is significantly different in effect, within a Tibetan community and outside one. I am ashamed to say that often the daily sufferings of the Shugden-practicing Tibetans is not even at the back of my mind. I protest against the ban because I genuinely wish for everyone to be able to practice this great Protector openly and without persecution but i forget to extend my protest to also be the voice against the poor treatment of those who were and still are oppressed as the result of their refusal to give up the Protector.
It is important to know what the writer meant by our actions "adding to the collective (practicing and non practicing sugden followers) sufferings of the Tibetan people...". Unless she is inferring that outsiders' participation adds fuel to the rift between Shugden and non-Shugden practitioners within the Tibetan community. Does anyone know and have any examples of situations where we have made things worst? I don't know. She may have a point but I still feel that the CTA is to blame and it has totally failed in looking after all Tibetans.
They failed in their duty when they imposed and upheld the ban casting aside the constitution that undertook to protect the rights of all Tibetan citizens. They failed by allowing practitioners to suffer as the result of a religious practice. And they are failing today by not making amends.
-
It is true that the Shugden-ban is significantly different in effect, within a Tibetan community and outside one. I am ashamed to say that often the daily sufferings of the Shugden-practicing Tibetans is not even at the back of my mind. I protest against the ban because I genuinely wish for everyone to be able to practice this great Protector openly and without persecution but i forget to extend my protest to also be the voice against the poor treatment of those who were and still are oppressed as the result of their refusal to give up the Protector.
It is important to know what the writer meant by our actions "adding to the collective (practicing and non practicing sugden followers) sufferings of the Tibetan people...". Unless she is inferring that outsiders' participation adds fuel to the rift between Shugden and non-Shugden practitioners within the Tibetan community. Does anyone know and have any examples of situations where we have made things worst? I don't know. She may have a point but I still feel that the CTA is to blame and it has totally failed in looking after all Tibetans.
They failed in their duty when they imposed and upheld the ban casting aside the constitution that undertook to protect the rights of all Tibetan citizens. They failed by allowing practitioners to suffer as the result of a religious practice. And they are failing today by not making amends.
I have found other posts in her blog where she complains about white people who went to Dharamsala and acted arrogantly, as if they were Tibetan or as if they were there to save the Tibetans and improve their lifestyle. I have a feeling that she is very insecure about her own culture: first, she lost her country to China and now there are so many white people trying to be Tibetan.
And worse still, most of them show very little understanding of the Tibetan culture but yet try their best to be Tibetan and I could see how it irks her out. And from the description, it does sound that she is a Dorje Shugden practitioner, or at least her family is, and it does irk her out that while she suffers so much, white people "defend" her protector when they dont get the situation.
Cultural differences can bring about a lot of misunderstanding at the end of the day and sometimes it can hurt others in ways that we dont intend to but it can be avoided. The comment shows that she is very insecure of her culture's identity and she is angry at what she perceives to be an attack on her culture which I am not surprised as she grew up in a settlement as opposed to her own country.
However, feedback is still feedback, and it allows us to see what the real situation is in Dharamsala so that we can plan our next activity with minimal damages to the people around. Perhaps after this we could be more sensitive to the sentiments of the Tibetan practitioners, or even work together with them as can see their approach to this issue and how they deal with it.