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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: negra orquida on March 11, 2012, 02:41:39 PM

Title: We'll see...
Post by: negra orquida on March 11, 2012, 02:41:39 PM
Here is a zen story:

There was an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years.  One day his prized horse ran away.  Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit.

"Such bad luck," they clucked sympathetically.

The farmer replied, "We'll see..."

The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses.

"How wonderful!" the neighbors exclaimed.

The old man replied, just as calmly as before, "We'll see..."

The following day, his only son tried to ride one of the untamed horses.  Alas, the wild horse threw him off its back and the son broke his leg and became lame. The neighbours again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune.

Looking at a distance, the farmer answered, "We'll see..."

Soon after, a terrible war broke out with the neighbouring country.  Military officials came to the village to draft all the able-bodied young men into the army.  Seeing that the farmer's son was lame, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out.

The farmer said, "We'll see..."


What is this story trying to tell us?
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: jeremyg on March 11, 2012, 02:52:02 PM
I feel the story is teaching us impermanence. When everyone is shocked that the horse ran away, the farmer knows that this is not forever. Again when he brings back three other horses the farmer knows that things can change very quickly. When we don't react, and look for permanence then we won't experience the suffering associated with the loss of something we feel is permanent. When we understand impermanence, we understand one of the core principles of suffering, and the law of karma.

When people react the farmer doesn't. He is unaffected by changes and has a stable mind. When people are happy or sad the farmer understands that things constantly change.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: sonamdhargey on March 11, 2012, 03:22:17 PM
We are quick to judge a situation and quick to take action. With such hastiness we miss to see the reality and we react based on prejudgement or pre-perceived thoughts. What we think may not be what will happened. Somehow we tend to follow the crowd and what others think and we end up making the wrong decisions. A sound decision does not mean a hasty one, but sometimes letting go of per conditions of our mind may help us making hasty decisions.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: Q on March 11, 2012, 04:02:31 PM
Very nice story. Thanks for sharing.

I believe the story is trying to point out the nature of our mind... how we always perceive things based on worldly views. Nothing is truly good or bad at any point of time, as either one can always turn against each other any time. It is all the doings of the mind, that perceive what's good and/or bad based on our current situation to suit what's most beneficial to ourselves. The farmer was wise... he didn't ride on the wave of emotions.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: triesa on March 11, 2012, 04:09:25 PM
Today's happiness may be tomorrow's sorrow.......
Today's misfortune may be tomorrow's luck.......

Never hold onto a perception as it arises out of circumstances and conditions.........
Hold dear impermanace as change is the law of the universe........
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: jessicajameson on March 11, 2012, 05:03:01 PM
Thanks for sharing this story!

When things happen to us, we like to define it as "good" or "bad". We fixate it as having "bad luck" or "good luck".

Psychologically, by defining a situation we may in turn make the .

Like when the son fell off the horse and broke his leg, if the father lamented over the situation and thought, "Oh no, how can my son earn money for the family now...?" etc etc then the entire incident becomes bad... creating unnecessary problems and heartache.

Who's to know that it was a blessing in disguise?

We all create unnecessary suffering lamenting over situations we have no control over.

We just have to let things flow and do the best we can in every situation.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: vajraD on March 11, 2012, 05:44:28 PM
Thank you for sharing the story.

The story to me basically explains that we can’t control situation but we can control our mind.

The experience may be bad for others but is not bad for the farmer because he realize everything is impermanence. So whatever others say it did not affect his mind.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: Aurore on March 12, 2012, 01:48:17 AM
The future is unknown. How things will turn out we do not know. This story teaches us to let go because life is impermanent. When something bad happens, it may not stay that way. Bad situations does not have to remain forever, good situations does not last forever either.

When we stop being attached, things will come! The more you hold on to your possessions, it will go.
So whatever comes, comes. Let's take it from there and make the most of what comes ... as whatever situation we are in is only a state of mind.


Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: kurava on March 12, 2012, 03:57:44 AM
Nice sharing.

From this story, I learn that by changing our view point we change our experience of things. What  normally considered as good, bad, beautiful, ugly, delicious, awful.... are subjective to so many factors eg. time, culture, individuals.

Even experiences that most agree to be negative such as having a handicapped child can turn into a positive lesson on unconditional love or exploring our human potential beyond physical limitations.

The father in the story is a very wise person. he understands that good or bad is entirely up to individuals' perception and there is no need to be attached to any given situation because it won't last and it's also subjective.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: brian on March 12, 2012, 09:46:46 AM
For me, this story tells me that every even tht happens do bring a blessing in disguise even if the initial thing that happened to him may seem bad but in the end turns out good for the guy. We just accept what kind of calamities or bad things that happens to us, in the long run, it does not matter as we evolve around the world of karma and we might be moaning or crying now but no necessarily it will be forever like in this case. I feel it is just another day for our lives here and to know nothing is permanent in this world and should instead focus what is in front of us rather than looking back what had happened.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: hope rainbow on March 12, 2012, 04:25:52 PM
LOL...

Thank you so much for this story, it really got me laughing out loud.
It reminds me of the story of this guy who missed his plane to later find out that the plane he was supposed to be on crashed. If he had never known that the plane crashed he would still be cursing his taxi driver that day instead of treating him like a God's sent angel.

What this makes me think of is this: the help we receive from our Protector comes in many shapes and form and is not necessarily what we EXPECT. Help may very well take the shape of a disaster. So we must keep 3 things active:
1. faith,
2. open mind,
3. a mind free from expectation that it HAS to be this way or that way.

But seriously, I want to know how the story continues... What happens after?
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: negra orquida on March 14, 2012, 05:05:25 PM
Hehe Hope Rainbow, unfortunately there is no ending to the story... not that I know of!

Interestingly I came across this story when I was looking for stuff on gratitude... I was wondering why is this story used?

I suppose if we were to link it to gratitude, if we could see the positive and be grateful for that in any situation, even if we are in a bleak place, we could still be happy or at least not as disturbed as one who would cling on to the negative side of things.  Just like how the old man reacted when his horse ran away and his son became lame.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: Big Uncle on March 15, 2012, 04:33:50 AM
I was going to give my 2 cents about how easily our mind is quick to react towards any given situation with either attachment or aversion. However, negra orquida has already come back with the original intent of the story. I would have never have linked the story with gratitude but when after reading your brief explanation, I would have to agree. Even when we are at our darkest hour, there is always hope because we are still breathing and we have the capacity to think our way through the problem. When all else fails, just be glad that we are still breathing and we are still alive and capable of making a difference.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: dondrup on March 15, 2012, 08:37:04 AM
There is nothing inherently good or bad about any situation as illustrated by this Zen story.  Due to our karma, every one of us has a different perception of how things should be in samsara.  If we understand that every phenomenon in samsara arises due to causes and conditions, then we will not react like how the farmer’s neighbours had reacted.  The old farmer had clearly realised the nature of things.  He did not seem to be affected by the change of events as depicted in the story.

It is interesting to note gratitude as the moral of this story.  As we cruise through our short life in samsara, it is almost always we take life for granted.  After we woke up from sleep every night, we should be very happy and grateful to be alive as human to continue our spiritual practice! 

I agree with what Hope Rainbow had said about the protector’s help.  It is not what we want or expect but what we need.  And Dorje Shugden knows how to arrange the necessary conditions to help us.  What appears to us as unfavourable condition ultimately is the condition we need to help us to transform!
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: yontenjamyang on March 15, 2012, 09:58:03 AM
This is an interesting story. The old farmer is definitely very patient and wise. Patient because he did not react to the situation as that could make the situation worse; wise because he did not think his good fortune is something to be overly happy about. In either good or bad circumstances, he displayed wisdom, understand impermanence and practiced renunciation.
Life's circumstances flip flop from good to bad to good to bad and something in the middle (most of the time). Being good or bad also are states of the mind. This story illustrate that clearly, using extreme examples and is very clear.
We need to learn that no matter what happens it not necessarily good or bad because it is just part of the story and workings of karma. We need to cultivate the condition for life's happiness. The most important is for others' happiness. Practice patient, the antidote to anger and wisdom that things are impermanent and that others' welfare is the ultimate happiness we can strive for.
That is why patience and wisdom are part of the 6 perfections of the Great Scope.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: pgdharma on March 15, 2012, 11:24:54 AM
Thank you for sharing this zen story, negra orquida.

Everything in life is impermanent, nothing last forever.  When something bad or good happened it may not stay the same way forever.  Sometimes a bad incident can turn out to be a blessing in disguise as in the case of the farmer, whose son became lame and need not join the army. We have no control of any situations, but we can control our mind and perception on how we would view the situations.

He may be a farmer with no education, but he has wisdom, a mind that is stable and not affected by the change of events/situations.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: Jessie Fong on March 15, 2012, 12:41:53 PM
Such a beautiful story.

On first reading, my little mind thought "Oh, the farmer knows only two words .... " but upon further reflection, I realise that he was aware that all events are not permanent and that he being a simple man has no ability to know/see into the future.

He was not fazed when his horse ran away, he was not jumping up and down and it brought back companions.  We can say that the accident that caused his son to be lame could be a blessing but all events were not within his control.

He let things go their way, as they were meant to be.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: Klein on March 15, 2012, 03:53:01 PM
My interpretation of the story is the similar to all of yours. The neighbours symbolise a mind that labels what's good and bad based on short term results. The farmer has a more long term view. I feel that either mind is neither right or wrong. It's just how soon we wish to make a conclusion. 

Good and bad is also very subjective. I guess from a Buddhist point of view, it'll be based on whether the action brings positive or negative karma. If our actions create causes for us to gain attainments and be closer to Enlightenment, then I think that's good. Otherwise, that's bad.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: Tenzin K on March 24, 2012, 06:22:36 PM
What a wonderful teaching.

We use to perceive things happen as what it is. Actually whatever things happen around us whether good or bad it’s all our karma. At one point it may look bad but because we only see it at a very short distance, sorry to say we are not Buddha yet to have a whole vision of our lives. But the bad situation happened which actually is a good things eventually which we discover at later time. Things is impermanent and it’s always like that. What determined the result of the effect is the cause that we have carried out before. This doesn’t mean we just let it be and just wait for it to happen! We still can make the change by collecting merits through dharma work.

The old farmer was so calm every time he says “We’ll see…” is just that he has so much confident that things/situation will always change and whether the result may not what we presume as it will lead us to another but what important is we have enough merits to lead the situation for a better result. 
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: Carpenter on March 24, 2012, 07:07:02 PM
The farmer has a very high wisdom, he sees things and accepts things differently, when problem arises, he does not put a conclusion to it because he knows that everything happen for a reason and it is not permanent.

Sometimes, in a situation, whether it is bad or good, it depends on our perception, a situation is bad for me but it might not be bad for other people, it could be a good opportunity for some people.

Due to the law of impermanence, things changes every minute, every second, if we make conclusion immediately after an incident happened, it will affect our decision, when we are so panic to find a solution that is ‘good’ for us might not be favourable to us anymore, because things just keep changing, but if we stay calm, look at the problem carefully, we might find something favourable to us, and this chance, it can come and go very fast, so without a calm and wise mind, we will lose out many opportunity in life. Worth it not? Again, it depends on people.

Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: lotus1 on March 24, 2012, 10:26:11 PM
This is from a Chinese proverb: ????????? that is used to describe:
1.   A setback may turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
2.   Every cloud has a silver lining.
However, it is also a great Buddhism story on Karma and impermanence!  :)
It is full of wisdom! If we see thing happens as it is and do not put in our own judgements to interpret it as good or bad, instead, we keep creating causes for positive virtues, we will be happier person.  8)
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: rossoneri on May 02, 2012, 08:48:07 AM
Patiently accept for the fact that every things happened for reason, instead of sulking when unfortunate events occurred or overly enjoy when good things come around. It is a lesson to some of us for the fact that the existence of happiness is due to sadness. It won't be a happy moment if we have not encountered sadness. We can't maintained our feelings for a long period of time, be it happy or sad. It'll be good if we can detached ourself from the things that we like slowly after all we can't bring those things along when the time comes.

The farmer have a lot of understanding about how the universal works, also understand the law of cause and effect, practicing calmness and awareness of things do change eventually so why do we live our life worrying about it. Learn to except and move on...we'll be a happier person.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: Tammy on May 02, 2012, 11:22:57 AM
This is story is well-known in Chinese communities around the world, as it is the story behind a Chinese proverb "???? ????“ which translate to 'Blessing in disguise'.

To me, this story teaches us to :
(1) Not take everything at it's face value
(2) Dont judge a book by it's cover
(3) Before drawing conclusion on a subject matter, we must give due consideration from all angles


Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: Dolce Vita on June 10, 2012, 03:13:02 AM
It seems from the surface that the farmer is 'numb' he is not happy nor sad for the 'good' or bad things happen to him. But if we examine carefully, he is living his life without the eight wordly concerns. He is not affected by external factors at all, I guess he has truly understand impermanence therefore he can take thing easy.

Eight wordly concerns:
1) Getting what you want
2) avoiding getting what you do not want
3) Wanting (instant) happiness
4) not wanting unhappiness
5) Wanting fame
6) not wanting to be unknown
7) Wanting praise,
8) not wanting blame.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: ratanasutra on June 26, 2012, 05:24:30 PM
Well.. i will say that the old farmer has a very calm mind, he can control his mind not to go up and down with what is happening in front of him.

He is wise and do not look at things at the surface, he also learn how to let go and accept in the fact without making noise and blame others when bad things happened with him as it beyond of his control.

We always label thinks surround us and attach with the label we created which lead us to have more delusion mind.
 
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: Carpenter on June 26, 2012, 06:06:51 PM
Well.. i will say that the old farmer has a very calm mind, he can control his mind not to go up and down with what is happening in front of him.

He is wise and do not look at things at the surface, he also learn how to let go and accept in the fact without making noise and blame others when bad things happened with him as it beyond of his control.

We always label thinks surround us and attach with the label we created which lead us to have more delusion mind.


When we do not be attached to what we don’t have or what we have, our mind will eventually be very clear and easier to let go. The farmer is calm because he is not attached to anything in that scenario, when we can control our attachment, then it is not difficult to control our mind.

He understand the cause of this incident that took place and he knows if it is the karma to get this, then nothing can be done, but if the karma is for us to be better, then so be it. Because Karma is out of our control, we can only face it, whether to face it happily or sadly, we still have to face it. So when it comes out as bad things, ourselves is to be blame, because we created the cause.
Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: biggyboy on June 26, 2012, 06:36:56 PM
Due to narrow minded views and perception, we acted according to every situations arises without much contemplation.  Many would perceived many different ways of the situations. 

http://dailylamrim.com/ (http://dailylamrim.com/)

"We ‘see’ these objects and mistake them for being single, inherently existent objects because of our ignorance. Though this bad mental habit, we ‘see’ the object over and above the parts we actually see with our eyes.

But when we look again, with wisdom, we clearly see that the object we perceive does not exist in the way it appears – when we search for it, it fades and cannot be found."

Hence, it will be more meaningful if one would look at all situations are non-inherent and to be more fluid in one's perception and not holding on to what it should or should not be.  For a simple reason that all things and situations changes every time...impermanence.

Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: bambi on June 27, 2012, 03:26:41 AM
In my opinion, its a rather ironic story. Even though at first when I read it, it sounded sad but it ended with something good. The farmer is definitely an optimist who doesn't take things for granted and every time something happens, he feels that it was not just meant to be bad, it is for something better. Ahh.. Yes.. While reading the story, it is my perception of how the story should be and how the villagers have wrong view towards the farmer. But the farmer is patient without looking at it in a negative way.

I found a nice story to share :

THE BUDDHA once told a story about a young man who was a trader and had a beautiful wife and baby son. Sadly, his wife fell ill and died, and the man poured all his love into his little child, who became the sole source of his happiness and joy. Once while he went away on business, bandits raided his village, burned it to the ground and captured his five-year-old son. When he returned and saw the devastation, he was beside himself with grief. He found the charred corpse of a small child, and in his desperation, he took it for the body of his son. He tore at his hair and beat his chest, and wept uncontrollably. At last, he arranged a cremation ceremony, collected up the ashes, and put them in a very precious silk pouch. Whether he was working, sleeping or eating, he always carried that bag of ashes with him, and often he would sit alone and weep, for hours on end.

One day his son escaped from the bandits, and found his way home. It was midnight when he arrived at his father’s new house and knocked on the door. The man lay in bed, sobbing, the bag of ashes by his side. “Who is it?” he asked. The child answered, “It’s me, daddy, it’s your son. Open the door.” In his anguish and confusion, all that the father could  think of was that some malicious  boy was playing a cruel trick on him. “Go away,” he shouted, “leave me alone.” Then he started to cry once more. Again and again, the boy knocked, but the father refused to let him in. Finally, he slowly turned and walked away. The father and son never saw one another ever again.

When he came to the end of his story, the Buddha said, “Sometime, somewhere you take something to be the truth. But if you cling to it too strongly, then even when the truth comes in person and knocks on your door, you will not open it.”

What is it that makes us cling so strongly to our assumptions and beliefs, so strongly that we miss the truth and ignore reality altogether, like the father in the Buddha’s story? In the Buddhist teachings, we speak of ‘One Ground, and Two Paths’. By this, we mean that, even though the 'ground' of our original nature is the same, the buddhas recognize their true nature, become enlightened and take one 'path'; we  do not recognize, become confused, and take another. In that failure to recognize, that wasteland of unawareness, we invent and construct a reality all of our own. We make what is in fact a wrong view into our view, the view that shapes our whole lives, and colours our entire perception of everything. Wrong views, according to the Buddha, are the worst, and the source of all those harmful actions of our body, speech and mind that trap us endlessly in the cycle of suffering known as ‘samsara’.


Title: Re: We'll see...
Post by: Dorje Pakmo on June 27, 2012, 05:39:19 AM
One should always not view things as good or bad. The old farmer was calm, and composed when dealing with all the situations in the story. It is about achieving a state of stability arising from a deep awareness and acceptance of the present moment. In other words, he has achieved equanimity (evenness of the mind). By looking at things with a mind that is at peace even when unpleasant situation arises shows that the old farmer have realize the true nature of things which is ever changing (impermanent).

One will continuously, suffer and have much dissatisfaction if one clings on to temporal feeling and experience of happiness or unhappiness.