dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Losang_Tenpa on January 11, 2012, 12:42:23 PM
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One thing I realized a while ago is that you rarely hear people on the internet talking about Kyabje Pabongkha Choktrul Dorje Chang. He is one of our most illustrious Gurus, yet you do not hear much about his activities. He seems to be remarkably low-key!
I find this very refreshing! Such a high Lama yet to all appearances is not concerned about making a big name for himself. I hear he is still teaching in Nepal and Tibet, and has contact with many of our lineage Lamas. I know some monks who received their Dharma names from him. :)
Very inspiring to hear about the humble nature of such high Lamas as Kyabje Yongya Rinpoche and Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
Does anyone have any pictures to post of Je Pabongkha Choktrul Dorje Chang?
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http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=426.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=426.0)
This was a post that spoke about Kyabjye Pabongka deeds back in 2009, seems like he is active in parts of China. May he spread Dorje Shugden far and wide through his immaculate teachings.
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[url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=426.0[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=426.0[/url])
This was a post that spoke about Kyabjye Pabongka deeds back in 2009, seems like he is active in parts of China. May he spread Dorje Shugden far and wide through his immaculate teachings.
Excellent!! Thank you!
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Oh my god!!!!I am so excited to hear this news:) Yes, Kyabje Pabongkha Choktrul Dorje Chang is a very high lama, his teaching of Lamrim had been edited into"Liberation of the Palm" now be using by many Buddhist practitioner. Even translate into different language such as Chinese.
Many people knew Buddhism philosophy through this precious Dharma book which sometime we called Buddhist's Bible. Pangkha Rinpoche is one of my favorite high lama. I read Pangkha Rinpoche's biography before, it is very interesting and educating.
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It was due to 'Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand' that I met my Teacher, Geshe Tsultrim Gyaltsen.
When I fist found the book I was completely blown away and immediately called the publisher to ask where I could find someone who could teach me more about this book. Nick Ribush of Wisdom Publications told me I was in luck, Geshe Tsultrim Gyaltsen had a Dharma Center very close to where I was living at the time.
I called the center right away and was invited to come to meet Geshe-la and visit the next day. :)
How fortunate I was to have found this book at that time. Before reading that book I had been practicing a bit of Zen, which was nice but I needed more answers. Zen seemed too anti-intellectual and never really explained what the final goal was. When I read Liberation...all of that changed. I knew that I had finally found something that would provide all of the answers as long as I studied and learned more about this text.
In many ways I feel I owe everything to Kyabje Pabongkha. Without finding that book when I did my life would be very different right now. For one, I would have never met my Teacher, Geshe Gyaltsen. That alone is enough to keep me filled with gratitude.
I am still far from knowing all of the answers, but I have never given up the realization that this text, if I continue to dig deep into the essense of it's meaning, will slowly reveal everything to me.
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Zen seemed too anti-intellectual and never really explained what the final goal was.
Agreed on this sentence ;D
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It was due to 'Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand' that I met my Teacher, Geshe Tsultrim Gyaltsen.
Same here, 'Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand' that I met my Teacher I met my teacher Jamseng Rinpoche, now Dromtug Rinpoche (Vajradhara)
Cheers, ;D
Somhow we are brought by Protectors via different means, I am grateful to the protectors for my Guru.
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As far as I know, no high lama is concerned about making a name for himself. Making a name for oneself is one of the Eight Mundane Concerns, so a high lama and seeking a reputation is inherently a contradiction in terms. I do think that good qualities of anyone, be it a high lama or not, should be promoted so that other people will be inspired. We have CNN Heroes, for example, people who like to benefit others. I don't feel that these people are out there helping others in order to get a name for themselves. There are easier ways to get a name for ourselves should we want to!
High lamas like Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen could have achieved even more if their students had promoted them and their qualities. For example, Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen could have had more students and more people would have benefited by his incredible knowledge and attainments. Unfortunately, great masters like Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen who did not have the assistants who are forward thinking enough to promote him, were not able to provide maximum benefit. I feel that whether the teacher has a high profile or not is not a reflection of the greatness of the teacher but of the students.
Although i am not part NKT, I must say that the students of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso promote him very well and are fiercely loyal. See how big their organisation has grown (of course with the help of Dorje Shugden!). How many people have NKT benefited all round the world. I don't think Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is looking for name. He seems very humble.
Even the modern tulkus like Gomo Tulku and Kalu Rinpoche, who seem to be 'courting attention' through various media, it would be an idea to examine what their previous lives' works were and what they are hoping to achieve in this life. I know many people are critical about Gomo Tulku for releasing a music video but perhaps this is an unconventional way to reach a modern audience. The people who are traditional and conventional can follow the traditional masters like Lama Zopa. The people who are quirky and not attracted to traditional spirituality can follow these young Lamas. I think we should be careful not to judge the high lamas on superficial mundane levels but to at least just watch and see the results. After all, having negative thoughts about masters, even though not our gurus, is not good in general because these masters will have their own niche and their own students.
Every high lama that i have read about is very humble. Humility is part of buddhanature. If we see a high lama who does not appear to be humble, perhaps it is our own deluded view which gives us this impression.
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It was due to 'Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand' that I met my Teacher, Geshe Tsultrim Gyaltsen.
Same here, 'Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand' that I met my Teacher I met my teacher Jamseng Rinpoche, now Dromtug Rinpoche (Vajradhara)
Cheers, ;D
Somhow we are brought by Protectors via different means, I am grateful to the protectors for my Guru.
I feel the same. :)
Somehow I feel I was led to finding that book, and thus my Teacher. :)
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As far as I know, no high lama is concerned about making a name for himself. Making a name for oneself is one of the Eight Mundane Concerns, so a high lama and seeking a reputation is inherently a contradiction in terms. I do think that good qualities of anyone, be it a high lama or not, should be promoted so that other people will be inspired. We have CNN Heroes, for example, people who like to benefit others. I don't feel that these people are out there helping others in order to get a name for themselves. There are easier ways to get a name for ourselves should we want to!
High lamas like Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen could have achieved even more if their students had promoted them and their qualities. For example, Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen could have had more students and more people would have benefited by his incredible knowledge and attainments. Unfortunately, great masters like Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen who did not have the assistants who are forward thinking enough to promote him, were not able to provide maximum benefit. I feel that whether the teacher has a high profile or not is not a reflection of the greatness of the teacher but of the students.
Although i am not part NKT, I must say that the students of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso promote him very well and are fiercely loyal. See how big their organisation has grown (of course with the help of Dorje Shugden!). How many people have NKT benefited all round the world. I don't think Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is looking for name. He seems very humble.
Even the modern tulkus like Gomo Tulku and Kalu Rinpoche, who seem to be 'courting attention' through various media, it would be an idea to examine what their previous lives' works were and what they are hoping to achieve in this life. I know many people are critical about Gomo Tulku for releasing a music video but perhaps this is an unconventional way to reach a modern audience. The people who are traditional and conventional can follow the traditional masters like Lama Zopa. The people who are quirky and not attracted to traditional spirituality can follow these young Lamas. I think we should be careful not to judge the high lamas on superficial mundane levels but to at least just watch and see the results. After all, having negative thoughts about masters, even though not our gurus, is not good in general because these masters will have their own niche and their own students.
Every high lama that i have read about is very humble. Humility is part of buddhanature. If we see a high lama who does not appear to be humble, perhaps it is our own deluded view which gives us this impression.
agreed.
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I would also like to add that all of the Lamas I have personally met, without exception, were very humble.
I do see your distinction of students who may promote their Lama however.
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One thing I realized a while ago is that you rarely hear people on the internet talking about Kyabje Pabongkha Choktrul Dorje Chang. He is one of our most illustrious Gurus, yet you do not hear much about his activities. He seems to be remarkably low-key!
I find this very refreshing! Such a high Lama yet to all appearances is not concerned about making a big name for himself. I hear he is still teaching in Nepal and Tibet, and has contact with many of our lineage Lamas. I know some monks who received their Dharma names from him. :)
Very inspiring to hear about the humble nature of such high Lamas as Kyabje Yongya Rinpoche and Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
Does anyone have any pictures to post of Je Pabongkha Choktrul Dorje Chang?
His Eminence the current Kyabje Pabongka Dorje Chang is becoming well known in China and very well known in Tibet.
It seems he is low key because they information on him are not in English but in Tibetan and Chinese. But in the Chinese world he is well known and often on their forums he is spoken about.
1. Rinpoche travels often into to Tibet and stays at Denma Gonsa Rinpoche's Monastery. He was receiving practices and lineages from Kyabje Denma Gonsa Rinpoche before Denma Gonsa passed away. He participates in their pujas and events openly. He often journeys to Denma Gonsa's monastery for retreats and pujas.
2. He travels to Shanghai very often and stays for months at a time as he has gathered a group of disciples there. He teaches and disseminates the Dharma there.
3. He also travels to Wu Tai San (5 peaks of Manjushri in China to teach and retreat. He has built many stautes of Tsongkapa for the 5 Temples that are there dedicated to Manjushri these few years. He is there yearly for months at a time.
4. He does not come to Serpom and India not because of humility but because there is threat to his life and welfare. Same for Kundeling Rinpoche, there are threats to his life by CTA. Just like there was threat to Trijang Rinpoche's life and Trijang Rinpoche left for Switzerland then USA. Kyabje Pabongka is without ego, but it is not humility as the reason for not being present in India or internet, it for safety purposes. But yes he is very humble, very kind and works very hard for the dharma. His incarnation is unmisaten as chosen by Trijang Rinpoche and Dorje Shugden. He was requested to be the first abbot of Serpom and he turned it down. Partly safety reasons. Because he declined for now, it was only then Serpom requested Kyabje Yongyal Rinpoche to be the abbot.
5. Part of the reason we do not publish extensive information of Pabongka Rinpoche at this time is safety reasons.
6. Kyabje Pabongka is currently as we type in China now.
High Lamas like Geshe Kelsang are doing so much work, his name is famous and he is high profile not because he wants a name for himself, but by nature of his work he is thrown into the spotlight. Geshe Kelsang's name is famous and very high profile not because he is not humble, but because he is compassionate to give up his privacy for the benefit of his students and Shugden's cause. Geshe Kelsang is also without ego and high attainments. Some lamas manifest fame and some do not depending on time, place, environment, karma and situation of the people. So whether they are humble or not is not really in the equation. High profile is not the issue, but the motivation behind it. And I cannot judge their motivation.
It is important we promote these lamas skilfully and let them be well known. It sends a message to CTA their undemocratic ban does not work and they will not win. They cannot supress Dorje Shugden lamas and practitioners. It also let's practitioners around the world know about these lamas giving them a chance to connect with them if if does not endanger their safety. Remember, CTA is capable of physical harm of these lamas.
This website has been financially supporting Kyabje Pabongka Choktrul Rinpoche since ten years back. And we are in contact with Pabongka Rinpoche when necessary.
We will continue to support both emotionally and financially toward Pabongka's activities for sure.
We at www.dorjeshugden.com (http://www.dorjeshugden.com) wish Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche the best and will continue to serve him.
Mana
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EXCELLENT NEWS!! AND GREAT PICTURE!!! Thank you very much!!
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EXCELLENT NEWS!! AND GREAT PICTURE!!! Thank you very much!!
You are welcome. We are very happy to provide information for our fellow practitioners. That is part of the goal of this website. :)
Mana
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This topic brings to my mine that there are 2 significant places that Dorje Shugdn practice can and may already are flourishing; that is Tibet and China. Significant because Tibet was where Dorje Shugden first emerged as the uncommon protector of our time and subsequently banned by HHDL. It is where Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche gave the most famous 24 days discourse on the Lamrim.
I can imagine the HHDL's ban have much less effect in Tibet. Is DS being practiced in the original Gaden, Drepung, Sera and other Monasteries? If so then Tibet is really blessed.
Similarly, with the current incarnation of Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche in China, we can rest assured that the Dharma King in propitiated widely enough there.
How strange that HHDL's ban is benefitting China so much. What is even more amazing is that the ban is benefitting Tibet the most.
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One thing I realized a while ago is that you rarely hear people on the internet talking about Kyabje Pabongkha Choktrul Dorje Chang. He is one of our most illustrious Gurus, yet you do not hear much about his activities. He seems to be remarkably low-key!
I find this very refreshing! Such a high Lama yet to all appearances is not concerned about making a big name for himself. I hear he is still teaching in Nepal and Tibet, and has contact with many of our lineage Lamas. I know some monks who received their Dharma names from him. :)
Very inspiring to hear about the humble nature of such high Lamas as Kyabje Yongya Rinpoche and Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
Does anyone have any pictures to post of Je Pabongkha Choktrul Dorje Chang?
Thanks for bringing attention to this great lama. I remember there have been various discussions and threads about DS lamas, but not many discussions on Pabongkha Rinpoche - who made it all possible for us in the first place, when he wrote down and disseminated his Guru's direct visions of Dorje Shugden himself!
The humility aspect and practice is very interesting - it is a cornerstone of the Gelugpa lineage, which places so much more emphasis on learning and the individual merit gained through a lifetime of study, hard work and effort. Mysticism is not encouraged, which is why I am sure the Lamrim and Pabongkha's "Liberation" has has such a profound effect on practitioners today - there is no hocus pocus or mystical practice that you must rely on only with faith. Instead, the teachings are presented logically and in clear, graduated steps that appeal and resound with the reasoning thinking mind.
The previous Pabongkha Rinpoche also showed us the stunning example of humility when he first manifested "dullness" and allowed himself to be subjected to teasings and being frequently put down by his peers for being "dull" and not very bright in his studies. It was only later, under Dagpo Rinpoche that he studied the Lamrim, excelled and became among the most renowned Lamas of the whole of Tibet. Looks like a little humility goes a long way!
The current Pabongka, as I understand, lives very simply and with little public exposure. He is still considerably young though, I think only in his mid thirties. But the might of his teachings and realisations will soon be shown to the world, I'm sure. We can support his good works, teachings and the benefit he will bring to countless others by helping in our own way to lift the ban. Once this is lifted, it would enable great Lamas like Pabongka Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche, Gangchen Rinpoche and so, so many others to do their work unhindered. By our efforts to lift the ban, bring awareness of Dorje Shugden's practice and benefits to the world, we can help not only DS practitioners directly, but also these DS lamas, so that they can help even more beings everywhere that we may not be able to reach in our current limited capacities.
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I can imagine the HHDL's ban have much less effect in Tibet. Is DS being practiced in the original Gaden, Drepung, Sera and other Monasteries? If so then Tibet is really blessed.
How strange that HHDL's ban is benefitting China so much. What is even more amazing is that the ban is benefitting Tibet the most.
That's a good point - actually the ban has brought so much more exposure and awareness to the world about Dorje Shugden. There is no other deity who is as talked about as DS now. No other Buddha makes it onto prime time international news!
And yes, the practice is still very much alive in Tibet and now starting to grow in China. There's an extensive and beautiful list of DS monasteries in the world listed here: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?category_name=monastery-with-dorje-shugden (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?category_name=monastery-with-dorje-shugden)
You'll be most interested to know that many of these monasteries are in Tibet. In fact, some of the most prominent monasteries which house some of the largest and most spectacular historical DS statues in the world are in Tibet. so what you say is indeed very true my friend!
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Thank you Mana for sharing information that other web resources do not have as well. Makes us practitioners feel happy and to know the Guru of Gurus is well and spreading the doctrine of Lama Tsongkhapa in China once more.
Zen seemed too anti-intellectual and never really explained what the final goal was.
if the final goal is not nirvana, then Zen can't even be considered a Buddhist practise? But I think the point is that we cannot use our intellect to become enlightened, you can out think your delusions? What you mentioned is already pointing to the fact that people who dont practise and just do a lot of intellectual thinking or just a scholar without a balanced practise/meditation, enlightenment is not possible. If intellect is all that is required we will have many Buddhas appear in the libraries?
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Pabongka Rinpoche was the first Gelug teacher who taught lay persons outside the monasteries and became very influential. In his memoir of his root Guru, Rilbur Rinpoche said:
When he taught he would sit for up to eight hours without moving. About two thousand people would come to his general discourses and initiations and fewer to special teachings, but when he gave Bodhisattva vows, up to ten thousand people would show up.[8]
The Lharampa Geshe Khen Rinpoche described attending Pabongka Rinpoche's teachings thus:
His voice was incredibly powerful. On many occasions he would address gatherings of many thousands of people, yet everyone could hear him clearly (in those days in Tibet we had never heard of microphones or loudspeakers)... Pabongka Rinpoche had an uncanny ability to relate to his audience, and for this reason he became a teacher for the common man as well as for us monks. The Rinpoche’s great accomplishment was that he found a way to attract and lead listeners of every level. His most famous weapon was his humor. Public discourses in Tibet could sometimes go on for ten hours or more without a break, and only a great saint could keep his attention up so long. Inevitably part of the audience would start to nod, or fall into some reverie. Then Pabongka Rinpoche would suddenly relate an amusing story or joke with a useful moral, and send his listeners into peals of laughter. This would startle the day-dreamers, who were always looking around and asking their neighbors to repeat the joke to them.”[9]
I got this from the the Pabongka Rinpoche wikipedia. I do think Pabongka Rinpoche had started a trend that was emulated by many other lamas after that, teaching the lay people. It is certainly not easy to teach lay people who have worldly concerns their top priority over buddhadharma.
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I got this from the the Pabongka Rinpoche wikipedia. I do think Pabongka Rinpoche had started a trend that was emulated by many other lamas after that, teaching the lay people. It is certainly not easy to teach lay people who have worldly concerns their top priority over buddhadharma.
Yes it did and it also influenced other lineages as well. Dharma teachings were no longer for monks only but was also taught to the general public. It was after his teaching that Dharma teachers start to give teachings to laypeople not just as a blessing, but to really make them understand and practice to the best of their ability. Buddhist teachings were always regarded as precious and sacred and laypeople were not allowed to learn them, lest they misintepret them or do not understand, and this is practiced in all cultures where Buddhism has taken root in.
Pabongkha's famous discourse changed that for Tibetan Buddhism in Tibet, which in turn started the trend of allowing laypeople to study the Dharma around the world, when it reached America during the 1960s-1970s and set an example for other Buddhist traditions there to teach Dharma to the laity.