dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: DharmaSpace on December 28, 2011, 09:25:32 AM
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What saddens me is that so many strong minds are preoccupied with defending or attacking an invisible spirit rather than honing the skeptical empiricism to which the Buddha dedicated his life.
The Dorje Shugden affair that emerged in the 1970s has brought division and strife to the Tibetan Buddhist community; sadly, murder too. This dispute over an invisible god illustrates the archaic nature of Tibetan Buddhism and is reminiscent of medieval Christianity, when religion, myth, politics, superstition and ethics were entwined under the banner of ‘faith.’
Some people have suggested that I’ve taken sides on this issue; I haven’t. I long ago admitted that my belief in invisible gods was insincere and, though I remain infinitely grateful to my old Tibetan teachers, I no longer identify with Tibetan Buddhism. I’m now just a student of the historical Buddha.
The Dorje Shugden practices are tantric rituals typical of Tibetan Buddhism and cannot be entered into without rites of initiation. Those so inducted are obliged thereafter to consider the initiating lama equivalent to the god itself. Having been asked by the Dalai Lama to cease this practice, Dorje Shugden initiates who remained loyal to their commitments were subsequently ostracized. This caused untold confusion and stress. Add to conflicting loyalties the fear of tantric hell (exponentially worse than conventional hell), and one begins to understand how unbearable this situation has been for many Tibetans and some Westerners. Today, the Tibetan community is split. The founding monastery of the Gelugpa sect in which this schism was hatched, Ganden Namgyal Ling, is today divided internally by a gateless wall.
Taking sides bears social as well as religious consequences. Lifelong teachers and students are estranged. Access to such powerful institutions as the Dalai Lama’s office is barred to Shugden followers. The great monasteries of Sera, and Drepung in South India – centres of the Gelugpa sect at the centre of the division – are split. Explicit signs forbid Shugden followers entry into a variety of monastic and lay institutions, even shops and restaurants.
The bigger tragedy, of course, is that so many strong minds are preoccupied with defending or attacking an invisible spirit rather than honing the skeptical empiricism to which the Buddha dedicated his life.
The following is from an early draft of The Novice.
Dorje Shugden (also known as Gyalchen Shugden or Dolgyal) is one of many dharma protectors – worldly gods supposedly tamed and converted to the cause of Tibetan Buddhism by tantric yogis. It’s said that some protectors subsequently become practitioners themselves and advance on the path to Buddhahood. While some Tibetans believe Shugden to be an enlightened being, others consider him a danger to their tradition. (See Controversy, below.) Dharma protectors are a characteristic feature of Tibetan Buddhism and are an inheritance from the pre-Buddhist Bön, an animistic religion that presumably grew out of the shamanistic practices of an even earlier society.
Editor’s Note – The dharma protector tradition has its roots in India, and various Mahayana (Chinese,Vietnamese) sects do have dharma protector practises though much of it is lost. Dharma Protector practise is not exclusively pre-Buddhist Bön. The Dharma Protector Setrab was known to have been brought to Tibet through the great translator Loden Sherab.
Tantric yoga, an esoteric practice in which one visualizes oneself as fully enlightened, is described as the practice of ‘taking the goal as the path.’ Shakyamuni Buddha is said to have revealed these extremely secret teachings to a select group of highly realized disciples, deeming them too dangerous in the hands of the unqualified. Every tantric text is prefaced with a warning describing the prerequisite qualifications and demanding nothing but the most remarkably advanced practitioners. In the hands of such yogis, Tantra is believed to lead either to rapid enlightenment or to inconceivably miserable vajra hells – hence its danger and the need for secrecy.
The power of tantra lies in transforming anger into insight, desire into compassion and ignorance into wisdom, by strategically engaging in what’s normally considered negative behaviour. In the highest class of Tantra one manifests with great wrath and lust. In sharp contrast to the conventional path, women are said to have certain advantages. Dorje Shugden is a dharma protector with both peaceful and wrathful forms, and some of the highest practices of Tantra are performed in his image.
Most Southern Buddhists of Burma, Thailand and Sri Lanka might consider tantra an abomination — quite unrelated to the teachings of Siddhartha Gotama, the man who became Buddha some twenty-six centuries ago.
Controversy
Dorje Shugden came to unusual prominence in the last two decades of the twentieth century following the fourteenth Dalai Lama’s pronouncement that he is a “spirit of the dark forces.” The Tibetan community in exile is profoundly split on this issue, and some monks and teachers have severed all links to their spiritual bases in Tibet and India. In particular, one Geshé Kelsang Gyatso, formerly from Sera Monastic University, now expelled, has masterminded a widely successful Tibetan Buddhist cult, centred in Britain but now extending throughout the world, that grows year by year in force and resources. A war of words and hearts has been unleashed.
Foul murder has been committed and even Westerners are taking sides. The Dorje Shugden controversy has all the makings of an internecine war, and the office of the Dalai Lama has already been weakened, though only within the confines of Tibetan Buddhism. Although this story created a minor stir in the Western press in the 1990s, it is in no way eclipsing the rapidly rising star of the Dalai Lama as the world’s most famous Buddhist monk, an international superstar and a Nobel laureate.
For more insightful stories about the inner workings of Tibetan Buddhism, read The Novice: Why I Became a Buddhist Monk, Why I Quit and What I Learned, by Stephen Schettini.
Source :
[url]http://www.schettini.com/dolgyal.html[/url] ([url]http://www.schettini.com/dolgyal.html[/url])
Many critics or writers about the Dorje Shugden issue like to highlight the point that Dorje Shugden came to prominence during Je Pabongka's time. And that this occurrence seems to be a very short time amongst the Gelug History for that matter and kind of put down or use it as a means to make the Dorje Shudgen practise seems minor or of little importance.
What they never point out and in fact missed out is that perhaps the Dorje Shudgen practise is most suitable during the 20 and 21st century. That during these times when people have the greatest amount of delusions and distractions that Dorje Shugden is the protector that will help beings who are afflicted with tremendous delusions.
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Interesting perspective and he summarizes the whole ban very well. Unfortunately, the whole situation has left him disillusioned about Tibetan Buddhism. If only he had access to this website, read and thought about the moderate views presented here, he wouldn't be so disappointed. There's no one who could have explained to him the situation or perhaps, he has heard and is not convinced of it. He is a critical thinker and it would take very convincing logic to persuade him. It would have been nice if Schettini come on to this forum and shared his views on the matter.
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Im not surprised Schettini thinks this way. Most DS practitioners and anti-DS practitioners have tunnel vision. They only read what htey want to read and in the case of scholars, they only consider evidence they want to consider. Scholars are fantastic for finding fault in sources. So even if the website had been shoved in Schettinis face, hed have said it was all made up.
After all isnt that what they say about the 5th Dalai Lamas prayer to DS, and the mention of DS in his bio? They said its all made up and cannot be authenticated...well news flash mate: neither can your sources of information.
Everything historical is open to intepretation and unfortunately for us, many people like Schettini are going to interpret that information the way they want. (Except the way they interpret the information benefits no one so by my book, its the wrong interpretation!!) Sad really.
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Why are we reading material from someone who broke their ties and samaya and has defected from Mahayana to Theravarda? Historical Buddha as teacher? He denies his 'ex lineage' and has given up on the traditional training in favor of his own ego. And this is very obvious from the way he say things. Why would anyone want to follow the historical Buddha who is unable to push us and point out our mistakes and make us undergo challenging conditions that will help us get enlightened faster. The usual excuse for someone to "follow the historical Buddha" is because he or she is afraid to be challenged to endure hardships and to be more dedicated in the Dharma. he is obviously using this issue to promote his book based on how he plugs in his book at the end of the article.
It is rather obvious and sad that a former monk would resort to using and contorting information to make his book more sensational to get more buyers. He knows that this issue will be a hot topic so he tries to cash in to this. I am sorry but i have zero respect for this guy whose name i do not even want to mention.
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What Stephen Schettini says (i'm not afraid of saying his name.. i find this amusing - the anti-Shugden people don't like to mention the name 'Dorje Shugden' and some Dorje Shugden people don't like to mention the name of the anti-Shugden people. So Harry Potter!) has no basis and if people investigate further, they will realize this. Unfortunately for Stephen, the credibilty of the author will be undermined if readers know a little bit about Dharma and see his Dharma career path.
What i have always stood by is that the more people write about Dorje Shugden, be it positive or negative, it is a good thing. What Dorje Shugden practitioners can do is to make sure that the information out there is balanced - i.e. if there's a 10 tonne truck of crap, let's make sure there's at least a 10 tonne truck of good stuff, so that the positivity outweighs the negativity and anyone who comes across an article about Dorje Shugden and their interest is piqued to know more, they will be able to have accurate and authentic information quickly and easily.
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What Stephen Schettini says (i'm not afraid of saying his name.. i find this amusing - the anti-Shugden people don't like to mention the name 'Dorje Shugden' and some Dorje Shugden people don't like to mention the name of the anti-Shugden people. So Harry Potter!) has no basis and if people investigate further, they will realize this. Unfortunately for Stephen, the credibilty of the author will be undermined if readers know a little bit about Dharma and see his Dharma career path.
What i have always stood by is that the more people write about Dorje Shugden, be it positive or negative, it is a good thing. What Dorje Shugden practitioners can do is to make sure that the information out there is balanced - i.e. if there's a 10 tonne truck of crap, let's make sure there's at least a 10 tonne truck of good stuff, so that the positivity outweighs the negativity and anyone who comes across an article about Dorje Shugden and their interest is piqued to know more, they will be able to have accurate and authentic information quickly and easily.
Yup I totally agree on this because Dorje Shugden definitely has the power and merits to rise about all the "obstacles" that he is currently having. He compiled the Kangyur and Tengyur, composed debate texts, built Ganden Monastery and ensured the growth and continuation of the Dharma. With this vast amount of Dharma work and merits, I personally doubt anything could blot his Dharma works for whatever reason long term. Unless Karma does not exist or is wrong, that is.
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This article is a short and brief account of Dorje Shugden and suitable for beginners. but it fails to highlight the fact on how Dorje Shugden came about and the long line of history of lineage gurus. The fact that even the 5th Dalai Lama could not subdue him and eventually wrote a praise for him shows that he is an enlightened being.
And is Stephen Schettini avoiding something that lead him to leave Tibetan Buddhism?
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This article is a short and brief account of Dorje Shugden and suitable for beginners. but it fails to highlight the fact on how Dorje Shugden came about and the long line of history of lineage gurus. The fact that even the 5th Dalai Lama could not subdue him and eventually wrote a praise for him shows that he is an enlightened being.
And is Stephen Schettini avoiding something that lead him to leave Tibetan Buddhism?
He is trying to cash in on the Shugden issue to help market his book. He wants to piggyback on his name. So he writes what little information he has.
I read about an article on him in tricycle, where he declared that the Buddha did not teach all the rituals etc but just on how to meditate (synonymous with the Theravarda view) and that he became disillusioned with Tibetan Buddhism because of all the politics in Buddhism (you use Buddhism as a shield because you cannot face the nature of samsara? but in the wrong way?) . I personally know people who use this excuse to avoid Tibetan Buddhism, because they are very afraid of challenging themselves and of stepping out of their comfort zone. It is nothing more than an excuse for them to hold on to their own egos and views, nothing more, nothing less.
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Ive just had a second read of this. I find it interesting that Schettini declared himself no longer devoted to invisible gods of the tantric tradition (Im paraphrasing), and is now just a student of the historical Buddha who only taught meditation. How many of us can become true students of the historical Buddha, in that we emulate him by giving up all our attachments, going into the forest and meditating until we achieve enlightenment? I know I cant so all power to the monks of the forest tradition...! Has Schettini given up his own attachments to wanting to look good, and be right?
And is Stephen Schettini avoiding something that lead him to leave Tibetan Buddhism?
Galen, hes avoiding his own ego. Its easier on his ego for him to meditate and believe that his contemplations are correct and infallible, because in doing that no one can question what goes on in his head. Subscribing to the Gelug tradition wouldve forced him to open his mouth and debate, and he wouldve had to see his beliefs might need a reeducation.
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Some people have suggested that I’ve taken sides on this issue; I haven’t. I long ago admitted that my belief in invisible gods was insincere and, though I remain infinitely grateful to my old Tibetan teachers, I no longer identify with Tibetan Buddhism. I’m now just a student of the historical Buddha.
For more insightful stories about the inner workings of Tibetan Buddhism, read The Novice: Why I Became a Buddhist Monk, Why I Quit and What I Learned, by Stephen Schettini.
Source :
[url]http://www.schettini.com/dolgyal.html[/url] ([url]http://www.schettini.com/dolgyal.html[/url])
Speaking of which I got this from his website: "I never returned to my teachers — I carry them with me — and only recently renewed my friendship with former Buddhist colleagues"
Seems to me remaining 'infinitely grateful' and 'never returned to my teachers' are incongruent concepts.
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Some people have suggested that I’ve taken sides on this issue; I haven’t. I long ago admitted that my belief in invisible gods was insincere and, though I remain infinitely grateful to my old Tibetan teachers, I no longer identify with Tibetan Buddhism. I’m now just a student of the historical Buddha.
For more insightful stories about the inner workings of Tibetan Buddhism, read The Novice: Why I Became a Buddhist Monk, Why I Quit and What I Learned, by Stephen Schettini.
Source :
[url]http://www.schettini.com/dolgyal.html[/url] ([url]http://www.schettini.com/dolgyal.html[/url])
Speaking of which I got this from his website: "I never returned to my teachers — I carry them with me — and only recently renewed my friendship with former Buddhist colleagues"
Seems to me remaining 'infinitely grateful' and 'never returned to my teachers' are incongruent concepts.
Not to be bitchy but he's just doing another big fanfare and dance to cover up his own ugliness.
On the brighter side, I do hope over time he sees the importance of his Gurus and reconnect with them. Only by that way can he clear his confusion and return into reality.
Harry
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Not to be bitchy but he's just doing another big fanfare and dance to cover up his own ugliness.
On the brighter side, I do hope over time he sees the importance of his Gurus and reconnect with them. Only by that way can he clear his confusion and return into reality.
Harry
It's not really about being bitchy, but to be vary of practitioners who have abandoned their Dharma practice and proudly encourages others to do so. Personally, it gives a bad example to other aspiring practitioners that it is okay to try practicing a lineage, and then abandon it because you dont like it or you find it too overwhelming for you. It's very decremental to Buddhist practice.
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Not to be bitchy but he's just doing another big fanfare and dance to cover up his own ugliness.
On the brighter side, I do hope over time he sees the importance of his Gurus and reconnect with them. Only by that way can he clear his confusion and return into reality.
Harry
It's not really about being bitchy, but to be vary of practitioners who have abandoned their Dharma practice and proudly encourages others to do so. Personally, it gives a bad example to other aspiring practitioners that it is okay to try practicing a lineage, and then abandon it because you dont like it or you find it too overwhelming for you. It's very decremental to Buddhist practice.
Ensapa, think you mean detrimental but i get your point.
Actually I find it a pity that someone of Schettinis passion could think like this. Its unfortunate because his umm enthusiasm could be put to good use if he was really out ot benefit others. It reminds me of what my guru always says re enlightened energies. Tantric deities dont fight or deny the negative energies we already have inside us, but they work with it.
Like Vajrayogini reigns us in using our desire energy but then redirects it towards something positive... just goes to show you the importance of a good teacher in (1) not misinterpreting the point of tantra that its not about sex (2) anything really. Come across the 'wrong' kind of teacher and you could end up spouting all sorts of nonsense like Angulimala.
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Ensapa, think you mean detrimental but i get your point.
Actually I find it a pity that someone of Schettinis passion could think like this. Its unfortunate because his umm enthusiasm could be put to good use if he was really out ot benefit others. It reminds me of what my guru always says re enlightened energies. Tantric deities dont fight or deny the negative energies we already have inside us, but they work with it.
Like Vajrayogini reigns us in using our desire energy but then redirects it towards something positive... just goes to show you the importance of a good teacher in (1) not misinterpreting the point of tantra that its not about sex (2) anything really. Come across the 'wrong' kind of teacher and you could end up spouting all sorts of nonsense like Angulimala.
Well, he redirected it to following Shakyamuni's teachings because that way he dont need to challenge himself and mend what needs to be mended. It is just a cop out whenever someone says that. And him being vocal about it would also mean misleading many buddhists, or aspiring buddhists in the future. To be honest I'd rather that he shut up than mislead people and send them the wrong message.
Maybe perhaps one day he will wake up and realize that all he is doing is running away from himself and all the umhappiness that he has is nothing more than him unable to face himself and I do hope that someday he does.
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Ensapa, think you mean detrimental but i get your point.
Actually I find it a pity that someone of Schettinis passion could think like this. Its unfortunate because his umm enthusiasm could be put to good use if he was really out ot benefit others. It reminds me of what my guru always says re enlightened energies. Tantric deities dont fight or deny the negative energies we already have inside us, but they work with it.
Like Vajrayogini reigns us in using our desire energy but then redirects it towards something positive... just goes to show you the importance of a good teacher in (1) not misinterpreting the point of tantra that its not about sex (2) anything really. Come across the 'wrong' kind of teacher and you could end up spouting all sorts of nonsense like Angulimala.
Well, he redirected it to following Shakyamuni's teachings because that way he dont need to challenge himself and mend what needs to be mended. It is just a cop out whenever someone says that. And him being vocal about it would also mean misleading many buddhists, or aspiring buddhists in the future. To be honest I'd rather that he shut up than mislead people and send them the wrong message.
Maybe perhaps one day he will wake up and realize that all he is doing is running away from himself and all the umhappiness that he has is nothing more than him unable to face himself and I do hope that someday he does.
To be fair, whenever people redirect to Shakyamunis teachings their not always copping out. It just doesnt appeal to them or they just dont understand it. I say this because Ive had experience with many Theravadan monks who were formerly Vajrayana students. They dont criticise the Vajrayana teachings in the way that Schettini does - they just very kindly fold their hands and say sorry, but it wasnt for them but they know it may be for someone else.
Shakyamunis teachings are equally as effective in challenging ourselves and mending what needs to be mended, since they are the basis of all teachings... that is, like every other teaching, their effective only if they are applied properly.
Schettinis trouble is that the teachings have become purely intellectual and applied in a very simplistic, selfish manner. Because the Vajrayana teachings dont help him achieve what he wants to achieve, he discards them as invalid because they dont fit in to his world view... so he goes to something he sees as more 'correct' because he already has an idea in his head of what 'correct' is.
For me it just shows how compassionate Buddhas like Shakyamuni and his wisdom manifestation Dorje Shugden really are. They find so many angles to appeal even to the most twisted of us. Schettinis lucky because everyone who is learned and attained knows how twisted he is, and yet they still accept him with open arms. Name me one other religion that would do that for someone who continuously perverts the teachings? May the blessings of Shakyamuni be imprinted into Schettinis mind.
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To be fair, whenever people redirect to Shakyamunis teachings their not always copping out. It just doesnt appeal to them or they just dont understand it. I say this because Ive had experience with many Theravadan monks who were formerly Vajrayana students. They dont criticise the Vajrayana teachings in the way that Schettini does - they just very kindly fold their hands and say sorry, but it wasnt for them but they know it may be for someone else.
Shakyamunis teachings are equally as effective in challenging ourselves and mending what needs to be mended, since they are the basis of all teachings... that is, like every other teaching, their effective only if they are applied properly.
Schettinis trouble is that the teachings have become purely intellectual and applied in a very simplistic, selfish manner. Because the Vajrayana teachings dont help him achieve what he wants to achieve, he discards them as invalid because they dont fit in to his world view... so he goes to something he sees as more 'correct' because he already has an idea in his head of what 'correct' is.
For me it just shows how compassionate Buddhas like Shakyamuni and his wisdom manifestation Dorje Shugden really are. They find so many angles to appeal even to the most twisted of us. Schettinis lucky because everyone who is learned and attained knows how twisted he is, and yet they still accept him with open arms. Name me one other religion that would do that for someone who continuously perverts the teachings? May the blessings of Shakyamuni be imprinted into Schettinis mind.
In some cases, it may be that the practitioner lacks merits and mental fortitude to go through with the teachings as Vajrayana can be very tough and cutting on the practitioner and it can be very hard to accept that we are at fault and that we must change this as soon as possible (the core basis of vajrayana teachings). Shakyamuni's teachings are more or less filtered, there could be very cutting sutras that existed but were not included because the first council decided that those were not authentic. I am not saying that the historical teachings are not effective, but they work slower as they are less direct and more polite. Which is fine as some people do need that kind of teaching.
Maybe they are treating him this way out of compassion as they realize nothing much can be done for him already. better to just be nice to him than aggravate him further, after all.
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Just a quick one on this for now:
The sad thing is that while it is very obvious to all of us that this article is very full of holes, the average reader out there won't think that. They will read Schettini's account as real and authoritative (people attribute plenty of truth to things just because they are written and published in a public sphere). A similar account of a westerner joining the Sangha and then quitting is Turtle Feet, where he goes all out to mock the institution of Tibetan Buddhism, its traditions and Lamas. As fellow Buddhists, we can see perhaps where he might have stumbled on his path, what it is he is or isn't seeing properly, but to everyone else, they will take his experiences as their only connection to what the world of Tibetan Buddhism really is like.
So how to counter the lame accounts of the likes of Schettini? Send out more truthful, detailed, well-informed accounts of what the controversy really is all about, what Dorje Shugden and the "invisible gods" are really all about. The more information there is out there - and the more well informed each of us are, so that we can share it with more people who will come with doubts and questions - the more the Schettinis will be drowned out.
So... keep contributing to the forum. I'd like to this Schettini readers will stumble upon this one day and take their own steps to find out more for themselves to form good, educated conclusions.
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I read this a second time, and now feel truly insulted - not because of what Schettini says but for his assumption that all readers are idiots who will accept all the rubbish he tries to get by with. So, I have gone through it again and given my own commentary (read: tried to tear it apart for its baseless arguments). My commentary is in red, written in between the original article. See below.
What saddens me is that so many strong minds are preoccupied with defending or attacking an invisible spirit rather than honing the skeptical empiricism to which the Buddha dedicated his life.
The Dorje Shugden affair that emerged in the 1970s has brought division and strife to the Tibetan Buddhist community; sadly, murder too. This dispute over an invisible god illustrates the archaic nature of Tibetan Buddhism and is reminiscent of medieval Christianity, when religion, myth, politics, superstition and ethics were entwined under the banner of ‘faith.’
There is much more than only faith in the practices of Tibetan Buddhism. There is an entire lineage and tradition of logic and debate that come with these practices, validated by the highest scholars of the religion. It is incorrect to make sweeping statements like these, and using vague terms like “invisible gods” – what does he even mean by this? Really, to someone who knows the subject, Schettini only shows himself up to be lacking greatly in the real traditions and beliefs within Tibetan Buddhism. He shows himself only to be a vague outsider looking in through a very dusty window and making conclusions about the happenings inside based only on shadows.
Some people have suggested that I’ve taken sides on this issue; I haven’t. I long ago admitted that my belief in invisible gods was insincere and, though I remain infinitely grateful to my old Tibetan teachers, I no longer identify with Tibetan Buddhism. I’m now just a student of the historical Buddha.
Again, he shows just how little he knows of the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. It is an absurd idea that someone can be “a student of the historical Buddha” while forsaking the very teachers who conveying him the teachings from this Buddha! You cannot be grateful but then also leave it and turn against it by speaking about it in such a trite and dismissive way.
The Dorje Shugden practices are tantric rituals typical of Tibetan Buddhism and cannot be entered into without rites of initiation. Those so inducted are obliged thereafter to consider the initiating lama equivalent to the god itself. Having been asked by the Dalai Lama to cease this practice, Dorje Shugden initiates who remained loyal to their commitments were subsequently ostracized. This caused untold confusion and stress. Add to conflicting loyalties the fear of tantric hell (exponentially worse than conventional hell), and one begins to understand how unbearable this situation has been for many Tibetans and some Westerners. Today, the Tibetan community is split. The founding monastery of the Gelugpa sect in which this schism was hatched, Ganden Namgyal Ling, is today divided internally by a gateless wall.
Taking sides bears social as well as religious consequences. Lifelong teachers and students are estranged. Access to such powerful institutions as the Dalai Lama’s office is barred to Shugden followers. The great monasteries of Sera, and Drepung in South India – centres of the Gelugpa sect at the centre of the division – are split. Explicit signs forbid Shugden followers entry into a variety of monastic and lay institutions, even shops and restaurants.
The bigger tragedy, of course, is that so many strong minds are preoccupied with defending or attacking an invisible spirit rather than honing the skeptical empiricism to which the Buddha dedicated his life.
Did he even bother to explore the “skeptical empiricism”, the questions, debate and logical arguments within this issue of the Dorje Shugden ban and his practice? Because within every practice and teaching of Buddhism, there is this element. The very point he has missed is that there has not been any debate allowed on this subject and to trivialize it as just some squabble over an “invisible god” makes light of something that is in fact very complex.
The following is from an early draft of The Novice.
Dorje Shugden (also known as Gyalchen Shugden or Dolgyal) is one of many dharma protectors – worldly gods supposedly tamed and converted to the cause of Tibetan Buddhism by tantric yogis. (well, no, not all Dharma protectors are worldly gods. Many of them are enlightened beings that emanate in in the form of Protectors).
It’s said that some protectors subsequently become practitioners themselves and advance on the path to Buddhahood. While some Tibetans believe Shugden to be an enlightened being, others consider him a danger to their tradition. (See Controversy, below.) Dharma protectors are a characteristic feature of Tibetan Buddhism and are an inheritance from the pre-Buddhist Bön, an animistic religion that presumably grew out of the shamanistic practices of an even earlier society.
Editor’s Note – The dharma protector tradition has its roots in India, and various Mahayana (Chinese,Vietnamese) sects do have dharma protector practises though much of it is lost. Dharma Protector practise is not exclusively pre-Buddhist Bön. The Dharma Protector Setrab was known to have been brought to Tibet through the great translator Loden Sherab.
(oh dear – so which is it, Schettini? It is an “inheritance from the pre-Buddhist Bon” or is it a tradition that has its roots in India”? Even in this, he is vague and undecided.)
Tantric yoga, an esoteric practice in which one visualizes oneself as fully enlightened, is described as the practice of ‘taking the goal as the path.’ Shakyamuni Buddha is said to have revealed these extremely secret teachings to a select group of highly realized disciples, deeming them too dangerous in the hands of the unqualified. Every tantric text is prefaced with a warning describing the prerequisite qualifications and demanding nothing but the most remarkably advanced practitioners. In the hands of such yogis, Tantra is believed to lead either to rapid enlightenment or to inconceivably miserable vajra hells – hence its danger and the need for secrecy.
Did you learn nothing in the time you WERE a Buddhist? Tantra is so much more and so much more profound than just talking about the hells. How does this even add to the argument? Are we talking about Tantric yidam practices? Dorje Shugden? (and you can do prayers to Dorje Shugden, as many monks do, without taking any initiations (or sogtae). He presents tantra in such simplistics terms - stripped down to the extremes of either enlightenment, or hell. What of all the practices, attainments, qualities in between that we develop to get to enlightenment?
The power of tantra lies in transforming anger into insight, desire into compassion and ignorance into wisdom, by strategically engaging in what’s normally considered negative behaviour. In the highest class of Tantra one manifests with great wrath and lust. (great, so now you've just encouraged a bunch of readers to go around thinking they're great tantric practitioners by "manifesting great wrath and lust." Oversimplying something as profound in tantra, without proper understanding of it can be very dangerous for the wrong way it can potentially lead others.) In sharp contrast to the conventional path, women are said to have certain advantages. Dorje Shugden is a dharma protector with both peaceful and wrathful forms, and some of the highest practices of Tantra are performed in his image.
Most Southern Buddhists of Burma, Thailand and Sri Lanka might consider tantra an abomination — quite unrelated to the teachings of Siddhartha Gotama, the man who became Buddha some twenty-six centuries ago.
(actually, why is this section on Tantra even here? How and why does it add to what he's trying to say. Hang on... what IS he trying to say?)
Controversy
Dorje Shugden came to unusual prominence in the last two decades of the twentieth century following the fourteenth Dalai Lama’s pronouncement that he is a “spirit of the dark forces.” The Tibetan community in exile is profoundly split on this issue, and some monks and teachers have severed all links to their spiritual bases in Tibet and India. In particular, one Geshé Kelsang Gyatso, formerly from Sera Monastic University, now expelled, has masterminded a widely successful Tibetan Buddhist cult, centred in Britain but now extending throughout the world, that grows year by year in force and resources. A war of words and hearts has been unleashed.
what defines this group as a cult? What it is that they have done? And does the immediately proceeding statement about “foul murder” suggest that perhaps this “cult” is linked with murder? Schettini seems to make a big deal out of this controversy but even the most gullible of readers will have to pause and wonder: what is this really all about? What controversy? Why? What do the both sides say? What has the Dalai Lama actually said? Where does this practice actually originate from and what is it, if anything, that would be bad? What is he talking about in this “war of words and hearts”? What words? What has been said? What “war of hearts”?
Foul murder has been committed and even Westerners are taking sides. (quite some baseless sensationalist writing, if ever I saw some). The Dorje Shugden controversy has all the makings of an internecine war, and the office of the Dalai Lama has already been weakened, though only within the confines of Tibetan Buddhism. Although this story created a minor stir in the Western press in the 1990s, it is in no way eclipsing the rapidly rising star of the Dalai Lama as the world’s most famous Buddhist monk, an international superstar and a Nobel laureate.
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Ive just had a second read of this. I find it interesting that Schettini declared himself no longer devoted to invisible gods of the tantric tradition (Im paraphrasing), and is now just a student of the historical Buddha who only taught meditation. How many of us can become true students of the historical Buddha, in that we emulate him by giving up all our attachments, going into the forest and meditating until we achieve enlightenment? I know I cant so all power to the monks of the forest tradition...! Has Schettini given up his own attachments to wanting to look good, and be right?
And is Stephen Schettini avoiding something that lead him to leave Tibetan Buddhism?
Galen, hes avoiding his own ego. Its easier on his ego for him to meditate and believe that his contemplations are correct and infallible, because in doing that no one can question what goes on in his head. Subscribing to the Gelug tradition wouldve forced him to open his mouth and debate, and he wouldve had to see his beliefs might need a reeducation.
"You think you can choose your life ? What an ego trip !"
Lama Yeshe
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I read this a second time, and now feel truly insulted - not because of what Schettini says but for his assumption that all readers are idiots who will accept all the rubbish he tries to get by with. So, I have gone through it again and given my own commentary (read: tried to tear it apart for its baseless arguments). My commentary is in red, written in between the original article. See below.
What saddens me is that so many strong minds are preoccupied with defending or attacking an invisible spirit rather than honing the skeptical empiricism to which the Buddha dedicated his life.
The Dorje Shugden affair that emerged in the 1970s has brought division and strife to the Tibetan Buddhist community; sadly, murder too. This dispute over an invisible god illustrates the archaic nature of Tibetan Buddhism and is reminiscent of medieval Christianity, when religion, myth, politics, superstition and ethics were entwined under the banner of ‘faith.’
There is much more than only faith in the practices of Tibetan Buddhism. There is an entire lineage and tradition of logic and debate that come with these practices, validated by the highest scholars of the religion. It is incorrect to make sweeping statements like these, and using vague terms like “invisible gods” – what does he even mean by this? Really, to someone who knows the subject, Schettini only shows himself up to be lacking greatly in the real traditions and beliefs within Tibetan Buddhism. He shows himself only to be a vague outsider looking in through a very dusty window and making conclusions about the happenings inside based only on shadows.
Some people have suggested that I’ve taken sides on this issue; I haven’t. I long ago admitted that my belief in invisible gods was insincere and, though I remain infinitely grateful to my old Tibetan teachers, I no longer identify with Tibetan Buddhism. I’m now just a student of the historical Buddha.
Again, he shows just how little he knows of the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. It is an absurd idea that someone can be “a student of the historical Buddha” while forsaking the very teachers who conveying him the teachings from this Buddha! You cannot be grateful but then also leave it and turn against it by speaking about it in such a trite and dismissive way.
The Dorje Shugden practices are tantric rituals typical of Tibetan Buddhism and cannot be entered into without rites of initiation. Those so inducted are obliged thereafter to consider the initiating lama equivalent to the god itself. Having been asked by the Dalai Lama to cease this practice, Dorje Shugden initiates who remained loyal to their commitments were subsequently ostracized. This caused untold confusion and stress. Add to conflicting loyalties the fear of tantric hell (exponentially worse than conventional hell), and one begins to understand how unbearable this situation has been for many Tibetans and some Westerners. Today, the Tibetan community is split. The founding monastery of the Gelugpa sect in which this schism was hatched, Ganden Namgyal Ling, is today divided internally by a gateless wall.
Taking sides bears social as well as religious consequences. Lifelong teachers and students are estranged. Access to such powerful institutions as the Dalai Lama’s office is barred to Shugden followers. The great monasteries of Sera, and Drepung in South India – centres of the Gelugpa sect at the centre of the division – are split. Explicit signs forbid Shugden followers entry into a variety of monastic and lay institutions, even shops and restaurants.
The bigger tragedy, of course, is that so many strong minds are preoccupied with defending or attacking an invisible spirit rather than honing the skeptical empiricism to which the Buddha dedicated his life.
Did he even bother to explore the “skeptical empiricism”, the questions, debate and logical arguments within this issue of the Dorje Shugden ban and his practice? Because within every practice and teaching of Buddhism, there is this element. The very point he has missed is that there has not been any debate allowed on this subject and to trivialize it as just some squabble over an “invisible god” makes light of something that is in fact very complex.
The following is from an early draft of The Novice.
Dorje Shugden (also known as Gyalchen Shugden or Dolgyal) is one of many dharma protectors – worldly gods supposedly tamed and converted to the cause of Tibetan Buddhism by tantric yogis. (well, no, not all Dharma protectors are worldly gods. Many of them are enlightened beings that emanate in in the form of Protectors).
It’s said that some protectors subsequently become practitioners themselves and advance on the path to Buddhahood. While some Tibetans believe Shugden to be an enlightened being, others consider him a danger to their tradition. (See Controversy, below.) Dharma protectors are a characteristic feature of Tibetan Buddhism and are an inheritance from the pre-Buddhist Bön, an animistic religion that presumably grew out of the shamanistic practices of an even earlier society.
Editor’s Note – The dharma protector tradition has its roots in India, and various Mahayana (Chinese,Vietnamese) sects do have dharma protector practises though much of it is lost. Dharma Protector practise is not exclusively pre-Buddhist Bön. The Dharma Protector Setrab was known to have been brought to Tibet through the great translator Loden Sherab.
(oh dear – so which is it, Schettini? It is an “inheritance from the pre-Buddhist Bon” or is it a tradition that has its roots in India”? Even in this, he is vague and undecided.)
Tantric yoga, an esoteric practice in which one visualizes oneself as fully enlightened, is described as the practice of ‘taking the goal as the path.’ Shakyamuni Buddha is said to have revealed these extremely secret teachings to a select group of highly realized disciples, deeming them too dangerous in the hands of the unqualified. Every tantric text is prefaced with a warning describing the prerequisite qualifications and demanding nothing but the most remarkably advanced practitioners. In the hands of such yogis, Tantra is believed to lead either to rapid enlightenment or to inconceivably miserable vajra hells – hence its danger and the need for secrecy.
Did you learn nothing in the time you WERE a Buddhist? Tantra is so much more and so much more profound than just talking about the hells. How does this even add to the argument? Are we talking about Tantric yidam practices? Dorje Shugden? (and you can do prayers to Dorje Shugden, as many monks do, without taking any initiations (or sogtae). He presents tantra in such simplistics terms - stripped down to the extremes of either enlightenment, or hell. What of all the practices, attainments, qualities in between that we develop to get to enlightenment?
The power of tantra lies in transforming anger into insight, desire into compassion and ignorance into wisdom, by strategically engaging in what’s normally considered negative behaviour. In the highest class of Tantra one manifests with great wrath and lust. (great, so now you've just encouraged a bunch of readers to go around thinking they're great tantric practitioners by "manifesting great wrath and lust." Oversimplying something as profound in tantra, without proper understanding of it can be very dangerous for the wrong way it can potentially lead others.) In sharp contrast to the conventional path, women are said to have certain advantages. Dorje Shugden is a dharma protector with both peaceful and wrathful forms, and some of the highest practices of Tantra are performed in his image.
Most Southern Buddhists of Burma, Thailand and Sri Lanka might consider tantra an abomination — quite unrelated to the teachings of Siddhartha Gotama, the man who became Buddha some twenty-six centuries ago.
(actually, why is this section on Tantra even here? How and why does it add to what he's trying to say. Hang on... what IS he trying to say?)
Controversy
Dorje Shugden came to unusual prominence in the last two decades of the twentieth century following the fourteenth Dalai Lama’s pronouncement that he is a “spirit of the dark forces.” The Tibetan community in exile is profoundly split on this issue, and some monks and teachers have severed all links to their spiritual bases in Tibet and India. In particular, one Geshé Kelsang Gyatso, formerly from Sera Monastic University, now expelled, has masterminded a widely successful Tibetan Buddhist cult, centred in Britain but now extending throughout the world, that grows year by year in force and resources. A war of words and hearts has been unleashed.
what defines this group as a cult? What it is that they have done? And does the immediately proceeding statement about “foul murder” suggest that perhaps this “cult” is linked with murder? Schettini seems to make a big deal out of this controversy but even the most gullible of readers will have to pause and wonder: what is this really all about? What controversy? Why? What do the both sides say? What has the Dalai Lama actually said? Where does this practice actually originate from and what is it, if anything, that would be bad? What is he talking about in this “war of words and hearts”? What words? What has been said? What “war of hearts”?
Foul murder has been committed and even Westerners are taking sides. (quite some baseless sensationalist writing, if ever I saw some). The Dorje Shugden controversy has all the makings of an internecine war, and the office of the Dalai Lama has already been weakened, though only within the confines of Tibetan Buddhism. Although this story created a minor stir in the Western press in the 1990s, it is in no way eclipsing the rapidly rising star of the Dalai Lama as the world’s most famous Buddhist monk, an international superstar and a Nobel laureate.
"You know, everything you learned in school made you more complicated. The teachers meant well. They tried to give you a profession, so you'd make money and be happy." He paused and looked around, "but this is just more superstition".
"Superstition colours everything. If Buddhism makes you happy you might pursue those happy feelings through meditation, but this is just another form of grasping, just another ego trip. Now, checking up in your own mind to see what's really true, that's meditation."
He showed how we responded to Buddhism as consumers, with exaggerated desire. "When you hear about Kopan and the fantastic meditation, you say: it's too much ! It's incredible ! Far out !" Here was the hippy mimicry for which he was renowned.
"Ya, western culture's incredible. That's why you come, isnt' it ? But the Dharma wont help if your contact with it just increases
superstition. Even when we talk about reality, you like to hear fancy Buddhist words like sunyata, but you don't want to see that your vision , all your vision, comes from mind ! If you don't realize that, it's impossible for you to realize sunyata !"
"That's why Lord Buddha's teaching is so simple. Simple ! You understand ? Simple !" He snapped his fingers again and gazed at us. "You don't need to believe anything, just go into your own mind and check up, right now. Right now you can experience meditation. Awakening is realization that comes from the mind. That's all !"
Lama Yeshe (extract from the Novice)
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Just a quick one on this for now:
The sad thing is that while it is very obvious to all of us that this article is very full of holes, the average reader out there won't think that. They will read Schettini's account as real and authoritative (people attribute plenty of truth to things just because they are written and published in a public sphere). A similar account of a westerner joining the Sangha and then quitting is Turtle Feet, where he goes all out to mock the institution of Tibetan Buddhism, its traditions and Lamas. As fellow Buddhists, we can see perhaps where he might have stumbled on his path, what it is he is or isn't seeing properly, but to everyone else, they will take his experiences as their only connection to what the world of Tibetan Buddhism really is like.
So how to counter the lame accounts of the likes of Schettini? Send out more truthful, detailed, well-informed accounts of what the controversy really is all about, what Dorje Shugden and the "invisible gods" are really all about. The more information there is out there - and the more well informed each of us are, so that we can share it with more people who will come with doubts and questions - the more the Schettinis will be drowned out.
So... keep contributing to the forum. I'd like to this Schettini readers will stumble upon this one day and take their own steps to find out more for themselves to form good, educated conclusions.
I like your idea there.
we should actually start publishing papers on our website regarding certain issues, not just on DS but also on Buddhism in general to help expose such things and educate people on what is really going on.
We are Buddhists after all and we should care about the Buddhist cause in general. This is also one of our protector's tasks. Instead of just praying to him to spread Losang's teachings, why cant we do them on our own? Taking responsibility is part of our Dharma practice as well. This article should be published on the main website to educate more people as people will take articles more seriously.
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Just a quick one on this for now:
The sad thing is that while it is very obvious to all of us that this article is very full of holes, the average reader out there won't think that. They will read Schettini's account as real and authoritative (people attribute plenty of truth to things just because they are written and published in a public sphere). A similar account of a westerner joining the Sangha and then quitting is Turtle Feet, where he goes all out to mock the institution of Tibetan Buddhism, its traditions and Lamas. As fellow Buddhists, we can see perhaps where he might have stumbled on his path, what it is he is or isn't seeing properly, but to everyone else, they will take his experiences as their only connection to what the world of Tibetan Buddhism really is like.
So how to counter the lame accounts of the likes of Schettini? Send out more truthful, detailed, well-informed accounts of what the controversy really is all about, what Dorje Shugden and the "invisible gods" are really all about. The more information there is out there - and the more well informed each of us are, so that we can share it with more people who will come with doubts and questions - the more the Schettinis will be drowned out.
So... keep contributing to the forum. I'd like to this Schettini readers will stumble upon this one day and take their own steps to find out more for themselves to form good, educated conclusions.
I like your idea there.
we should actually start publishing papers on our website regarding certain issues, not just on DS but also on Buddhism in general to help expose such things and educate people on what is really going on.
We are Buddhists after all and we should care about the Buddhist cause in general. This is also one of our protector's tasks. Instead of just praying to him to spread Losang's teachings, why cant we do them on our own? Taking responsibility is part of our Dharma practice as well. This article should be published on the main website to educate more people as people will take articles more seriously.
Heartspoon,
Good idea, we will place this article in our website under readings so many others can learn up also. Thank you.
Mana
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Why are we reading material from someone who broke their ties and samaya and has defected from Mahayana to Theravarda? Historical Buddha as teacher? He denies his 'ex lineage' and has given up on the traditional training in favor of his own ego. And this is very obvious from the way he say things. Why would anyone want to follow the historical Buddha who is unable to push us and point out our mistakes and make us undergo challenging conditions that will help us get enlightened faster. The usual excuse for someone to "follow the historical Buddha" is because he or she is afraid to be challenged to endure hardships and to be more dedicated in the Dharma. he is obviously using this issue to promote his book based on how he plugs in his book at the end of the article.
It is rather obvious and sad that a former monk would resort to using and contorting information to make his book more sensational to get more buyers. He knows that this issue will be a hot topic so he tries to cash in to this. I am sorry but i have zero respect for this guy whose name i do not even want to mention.
Ensapa,
You make a very good point here. Alittle harsh (sorry) ;), but a very good point. Theravadins are a valid source of teachings from Buddha, but the lineage is not run and operated by Buddhas. Just like the Mahayanists, it is run by people. Where there are people there will be the same politics and confusion just in a different form. Just because you practice Theravadin School doesn't mean everything is perfect. They have their fair share of drama, confusion, sectarianism, bias, criticisms and everything else anger, desire and ignorance can concoct. No one is an exception because of the religion, sect, or school of religion you belong to. No one. Mahayana and Theravadin traditions are perfect and valid. But we have to put the practice into action.
Mana
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You make a very good point here. Alittle harsh (sorry) ;), but a very good point. Theravadins are a valid source of teachings from Buddha, but the lineage is not run and operated by Buddhas. Just like the Mahayanists, it is run by people. Where there are people there will be the same politics and confusion just in a different form. Just because you practice Theravadin School doesn't mean everything is perfect. They have their fair share of drama, confusion, sectarianism, bias, criticisms and everything else anger, desire and ignorance can concoct. No one is an exception because of the religion, sect, or school of religion you belong to. No one. Mahayana and Theravadin traditions are perfect and valid. But we have to put the practice into action.
Mana
"Where there are people there will be the same politics and confusion just in a different form." - words of truth Mana. I was just reading the New Buddhist forum and checking out the Heart Sutra debate...is it valid? Is it invalid? Does it teaching emptiness? Does it teach nihilism? Even for something so holy and clearly valid (in my view anyway), there can be such a debate.
Like you say, theres no end until we put whatever practice we have into action.
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If Mr Schettini in all his time in meditation even gain some insights into the law of cause and effect, he would easily deduce that since the effects are enlightened then the cause must be enlightened. Since the Lamas who practiced Dorje Shugden has help so many, namely H.E .Geshe Kelsang Gyatso his practriced must be of the same nature. If that is not enlightenment then I do not know what is.
Beggar gave a very direct response to his article. I cannot do better. Thanks Beggar. I agree with Mana that this site should post more article on General Buddhism to educate the many curious who are attracted by DS.
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Beggar gave a very direct response to his article. I cannot do better.
No wish for an other ego trip, you mean ?
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Ensapa,
You make a very good point here. Alittle harsh (sorry) ;), but a very good point. Theravadins are a valid source of teachings from Buddha, but the lineage is not run and operated by Buddhas. Just like the Mahayanists, it is run by people. Where there are people there will be the same politics and confusion just in a different form. Just because you practice Theravadin School doesn't mean everything is perfect. They have their fair share of drama, confusion, sectarianism, bias, criticisms and everything else anger, desire and ignorance can concoct. No one is an exception because of the religion, sect, or school of religion you belong to. No one. Mahayana and Theravadin traditions are perfect and valid. But we have to put the practice into action.
Mana
Kinda forgot about this thread after a while, but I am not saying that the Theravardists are bad, just the followers who (very often) take the teachings out of context, again and again to protect their ego. Traditionally, Theravardan teachings were reserved only for the monks and laypeople because it is believed that laypeople would misinterpret the teachings and laypeople who want to study the teachings are required to stay in the monastery with the monk, like a monk but wear the white clothes of an upasaka. This is how the Theravardan system worked until a missionary who studied Pali to learn more about Buddhism to find its weakness, got taken in by Buddhism instead and started the Pali Text Translation Society and from that onwards, laypeople got access to the Dharma teachings...but one that was translated literally without a proper commentary, and what happened was an entire generation of neo theravardans that we know now. They are more or less atheist Buddhists rather than Buddhists. It was very clear that guidance is needed for interpreting the teachings but somehow, people think that they did not require any.
This is not the fault of the school or the monastic system, but something caused by the Dharma being mistranslated out of context. Traditionally, even those who translated Dharma texts must be strong practitioners themselves but the translator of the texts were not. This is what I learnt about what happened about them anyway.