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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: DharmaSpace on July 07, 2011, 05:55:09 PM
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The Nepali recently prevented Tibetan rallies against China from happening on the birthday celebration of His Holiness the Dalai Lama's 76th birthday.
This shows that Nepal cares more about its relationship with China's financial aid rather than its relationship with the Dalai Lama. It would seem that China now has more the upper hand in influencing Nepal than India another supoerpower where the Dalai Lama resides in.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/07/06/2011-07-06_nepal_bans_tibetan_rallies_on_dalai_lamas_76th_birthday.html
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Nepal is clearly in need of cash. The decision of the government does not necessarily reflect the hearts of the people
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@Ensapa I 've been following Dalai Lama's statements to the public since he announced his retirement and that he is giving up secular powers there don't seem to be anything that he has been mentioning about the the ban.
I grew up reading the Dalai Lama's works and I know that this great personage has brought much prestige to Buddhism and has indirectly turned the public relations in the West especially from a stance of nonchalance to one of respect for our faith. I do hope the Dalai Lama will return to help samsaric beings like me again. But the evidence are showing that the Dalai Lama is preparing to pass away.
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A question to ponder? do you think the waning of power could be a good thing or a bad thing?
Is it good or bad for Tibetan Buddhism?
How will it contribute to growth of Dorje Shugden's practice? (if at all?)
Just interested to know what people think about the dalai lama's slow but steady withdrawal from the big scene...
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A question to ponder? do you think the waning of power could be a good thing or a bad thing?
Is it good or bad for Tibetan Buddhism?
How will it contribute to growth of Dorje Shugden's practice? (if at all?)
Just interested to know what people think about the dalai lama's slow but steady withdrawal from the big scene...
A question to ponder? do you think the waning of power could be a good thing or a bad thing?
Is it good or bad for Tibetan Buddhism?
How will it contribute to growth of Dorje Shugden's practice? (if at all?)
Just interested to know what people think about the dalai lama's slow but steady withdrawal from the big scene...
This is interesting! In my opinion, the Dalai Lama's withdrawal at this juncture is good for Tibetan Buddhism. The Dalai Lama with all due respect is growing old and before the inevitable happens, he steps down and allow his followers at large to get used to the idea before he truly leaves us. In this way, he paves the way for future spiritual leaders within Tibetan Buddhism. However, it would be very hard for anyone else to fill in his shoes.
Well, we don't know if it would contribute to the spread of Dorje Shugden yet. But i think the Dalai Lama would from now on lessen his campaign against Dorje Shugden. In this way, the ban by default marks the period where the ban is slowly being lifted. It constitutes great hope that the ban would be lifted very soon. How soon is everybody's guess but the process for this has already started. It is just a matter of time before all would be made clear.
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i disagree that the Dalai Lama's influence is on the wane... news of his Kalachakra initiation was all over the net. His birthday was also celebrated in Tibet despite the very real threats (http://phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=29728&article=Kardze+erupts+in+birthday+celebrations).
Of course all countries are nervous as hell of p*ssing off China, which is why Nepal clamped down, and the Australian PM never met the Dalai Lama. Even while the Dalai Lama is visiting US, Obama isn't meeting up with him. All these are just political posturing and it doesn't mean that the Dalai Lama is losing influence. In fact, by these officials not meeting with him, i think it's giving the Dalai Lama more of an international sympathy vote - i.e. it's the big bad money-minded, money-making countries discriminating against the little ol' peace-loving monk.
In that sense, i think it's good for Tibetan Buddhism!
With regard to the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden, it is interesting that he has not mentioned Shugden during the transfer of power. The new Prime Minister Sangay hasn't mentioned him either. Everything seems to be quiet on the eastern front. But the calm sometimes comes before a storm so who knows what is up the Dalai Lama's maroon sleeves. Perhaps he's getting ready to let the ban fade out, perhaps not... as always, only time will tell.
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HH's waning power on a political level is a good thing.
This will only put all focus on His spiritual role. As ensapa said, the act of the Nepalese government (a political body) may not reflect the sentiments of the people - the actual/direct spiritual practitioners. Less contact with political personalities like Obama may not be a bad thing either as it moves HH further away from politics, aligned to His declaration in March this year. Additionally, WB said that HH's big exposure for the Kalachakra Initiation shows that His influence on the spiritual world is as celebrated as ever...this influence could even be growing as HH is now 100% into spirituality with no secular role.
I pray hard that all this will bring an end to the storm of Tibetan Buddhism so that we can all move forward and upward in practicing pure Dharma and highly attained masters can freely turn the wheel of Dharma in all ten directions with no political hindrances during this degenerate age.
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Just to add, i think that HH the Dalai Lama's influence is not on the wane because if it was, China would not still be so anxious about whether other world leaders are meeting with him. Especially as the Dalai Lama has retired from the political role and now he is presenting himself as a purely spiritual leader. The Dalai Lama is not getting any younger, Tibet has been pretty much assimilated into China and any dissent is quickly dealt with. What is China so worried about? A 76 year old retired head of an exiled government which has no legal standing? I find it interesting.
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With regard to the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden, it is interesting that he has not mentioned Shugden during the transfer of power. The new Prime Minister Sangay hasn't mentioned him either. Everything seems to be quiet on the eastern front. But the calm sometimes comes before a storm so who knows what is up the Dalai Lama's maroon sleeves. Perhaps he's getting ready to let the ban fade out, perhaps not... as always, only time will tell.
I take it that it is good that Shugden wasn't mentioned during the transfer of power...nor any other religious matters. After hundreds of years of mixing religion and politics, there must be quite a clean up/ or reworking of governmental ruling etc.. If the new direction is to not mix religion and politics, TGIE should work towards a clean break.
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I personally do not think the Dalai Lama's influence will ever wane. Not while he is alive and not certainly after he has chosen to leave this life. The actions of an enlightened being goes beyond our limited mindset. HH's intentions and motivation I believe are pure and there is certainly a higher purpose to HH's actions.
Reading the post in the forum month's back when HH's made a statement about how he would relinquish his political/secular "power", there were a lot of us that mentioned it made no difference apart from the fact that HH's could not concentrate solely on spiritual matters and even reach out to even more without the ball and chain of politics!
Hence, I reckon HH is making plans that will reveal itself fairly soon and it WILL be for the benefit of all and of course Buddha's teachings!
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It is sad to see Sanga members and religion to be used by governments for political reasons.
Doesnt matter if Dalai Lama's influence is on the wane, he reminds one of few ppl who inspires me.
May he live long to turn the wheel of dharma..
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I think this topic is very interesting. Now, let's look at Dalai Lama's "influence" from a different perspective.
Since the Great Fifth Dalai Lama founded the Ganden Phodrang government of Tibet in 1642, the successive Dalai Lamas have headed the Tibetan state for nearly four centuries. But none can compete with the work and influence of the current Fourteenth Dalai Lama who is universally recognised by Tibetans in and outside Tibet as their undisputed leader, also many more globally who believes in his teachings and the cause of Tibet.
The TGIE is now faced with handing the power of the Ganden Phodrang dynasty to a democratic elected leadership of a 100,000 exile Tibetans, but what can the 100,000 exile Tibetans do on their own now?
I personally believe it's not Dalai Lama's influence that is on the wane, but rather the TGIE. His Holiness the Dalai Lama has of course, lost some support of the younger Tibetans, but The Dalai Lama institution is the only 'legitimate', valid and undisputed institutional link to the Tibetan nation, as it existed before the Chinese occupation. Do we seriously think the Central Tibetan Administration is qualified to uphold its legal claim for the succession of the Tibetan government of pre-1959 after the demise of the Dalai Lama ? Pre-1959 Dalai Lama's influence was around 1 million Tibetans? Now, the name His Holiness the Dalai Lama is known throughout the world and plants imprints of Buddhism in their mind.
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Historically the "Dalai Lama Dynasty" had held much mystic, intrigue, spiritualism and power till today. It is a stronghold in the Buddhist sphere around the world and is still gaining popularity despite the pressure from China to disassociate from him. Of course political play of relationships appears on the surface to humour China. However it can be seen from the international news influential politicians are meeting the Dalai Lama on the backstage to avoid China's fury.
It is a wonder viewing at the angle of threats from a giant, a world super power to a miniscule kingdom on exile who still could command the world's audience be it political or spiritualism. I think the Dalai Lama has taken the back seat to allow Tibetans to organize politically into the future but it does not necessarily mean his influence is waning.
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I guess the imprint in the minds of many that Dalai Lama is an enlightened being, Chenrezig himself is difficult to erase despite evidence of his unscrupulous involvement in the anti Dorje Shugden movement. The culture of viewing the Dalai Lama purely for centuries cannot be eradicated overnight. For the uneducated lay people of Tibet, it is unthinkable for them to see Dalai Lama as anything other than Buddha of Compassion. For them, the influence of Dalai Lama on them is still strong.
To the educated mass of the world who only look at logic, the answer is clear. Dalai Lama is the greatest violator of human rights. However, to the Tibetan people who has held steadfastly to the practice of Dorje Shugden, they are torn between their allegiance to Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden and their guru who gave them the practice but ultimately being Tibetan Buddhist where the guru is the ultimate refuge, Dalai Lama would not stand a chance if they are asked to choose.
Finally, the Dalai Lama still has the support of the traitors of DS practice who only want political favours and power from him.
Looking at the situation in totality, it is clear that the Dalai Lama's influence is never as strong as before any more.
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With the scheduled meeting between the Dalai Lama and President Obama today, it looks like the Dalai Lama is being used as a pawn for the US to flex their muscles to the Chinese government. I believe it's a meeting that HAS to happen - for fear of the US looking weak to China. Of course Obama gets brownie points for looking firm in supporting the underdog but i think the bigger picture is more than the Dalai Lama and Tibet. The Americans are just taking advantage of the situation for their own benefit. The Americans ignored China's demand to not meet with the Dalai Lama last year and they will continue to stay on the same track.
I wonder what the President thinks of the Dalai Lama's ban against Shugden practitioners and the subsequent hardships that have followed though. Perhaps China should focus on that issue when addressing the issue of the Dalai Lama rather than the same old same old "separatist" allegations.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/16/us-usa-obama-dalailama-idUSTRE76E6UK20110716
China calls on Obama to cancel Dalai Lama meeting
By Laura MacInnis and Jason Subler
WASHINGTON/SHANGHAI | Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:09pm EDT
(Reuters) - China urged the United States to cancel a scheduled meeting between President Barack Obama and exiled Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama at the White House on Saturday, saying such a meeting would harm U.S.-China relations.
The White House announced on Friday that Obama would speak with the Dalai Lama about Tibet in their first meeting in more than a year. The announcement upset China, which was already on edge about the Dalai Lama's meetings with U.S. congressional leaders and the potential for a U.S. debt default.
"This meeting underscores the president's strong support for the preservation of Tibet's unique religious, cultural and linguistic identity and the protection of human rights for Tibetans," the White House said in a statement.
Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei said in a statement on the ministry's website: "We firmly oppose any senior foreign government officials meeting with the Dalai Lama in any way."
Hong said China called on the United States to "cancel the decision for Obama to meet the Dalai Lama as soon as possible, and not do anything that could interfere with China's internal affairs or harm China-U.S. relations."
China accuses the Dalai Lama of being a separatist who supports the use of violence to set up an independent Tibet. The Nobel Prize laureate denies this, saying he wants a peaceful transition to autonomy for the remote Himalayan region that China has ruled with an iron fist since 1950, when Chinese troops marched in.
There was no immediate comment from the White House on China's call for the meeting to be canceled.
Beijing warned the United States to stay out of its affairs last week after top lawmakers including House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner, the top Republican in Congress, and top House Democrat Nancy Pelosi met the Dalai Lama during his 10-day visit to Washington.
'ENDURING SUPPORT'
Saturday's meeting in the White House Map Room is expected to last at least 30 minutes and will be closed to the news media. The Obama administration said the question of Tibet is likely to come up during the meeting.
"The president will highlight his enduring support for dialogue between the Dalai Lama's representatives and the Chinese government to resolve differences," the White House said in the statement issued earlier on Friday.
Kate Saunders, a spokeswoman for the International Campaign for Tibet, a human rights group that works closely with Tibetan exiles, said Tibet's capital Lhasa was "under virtual lockdown" ahead of the anniversary of the 1950 invasion.
"The meeting is a significant acknowledgment by the White House of the importance of direct discussion between President Obama and the Dalai Lama at a time of crisis in Tibet," Saunders said.
China's foreign ministry has alleged the Dalai Lama -- who fled to India in 1959 after a failed uprising -- is using his U.S. trip "to engage in activities to split the motherland" and has made clear its opposition to U.S. engagement on Tibet.
"The affairs of Tibet are a purely Chinese internal matter, and China resolutely opposes any country or any person interfering in China's internal affairs on the issue of Tibet," the Chinese foreign ministry said on July 9.
Obama last met the Dalai Lama in February 2010, in a visit that drew a strong denunciation from Beijing.
Saturday's White House meeting comes at an extra sensitive moment for China, the United States' biggest creditor, with leaders in Washington at odds over how to raise the $14.3 trillion U.S. debt ceiling in time to avoid default.
China holds more than $1 trillion in U.S. Treasury debt and would be particularly exposed should Congress fail to reach a deal by August 2. A U.S. default could rocket up interest rates, sink the value of the U.S. dollar and hurt the global economy.
Beijing has urged Washington to "adopt responsible policies and measures to guarantee the interests of investors." Obama has asked for congressional leaders to give him proposals by Saturday on how to advance talks on a deal.
(Additional reporting by Jeff Mason in WASHINGTON; editing by Todd Eastham)
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The Dalai Lama's political power may be on the wane because he so wills it.By transferring political power to the new democratically-elected Prime Minister Sangay, he is showing clearly that he just wants to focus on spiritual matters and the Dharma in his remaining years.
Thus he is fully in control on the spiritual level. This is good because, even with the Dalai Lama-Dorje Shugden controversy, Tibetan Buddhism is spreading rapidly everywhere. He has made Buddhism a household word. As an emanation of compassionate Chenrezig he continues to teach and spread Dharma everywhere for the benefit of all.
Regarding his ban on Dorje Shugden practice, even when he spoke up about it recently, during a Kalachakra initiation in Washington DC(on the occasion of his birthday), it was like he was just doing so because the TGIE expected him to do so. I believe, he will continue to make a little noise here and there regarding his stance on Dorje Shugden practice. But that will be all.
The more interesting person to watch is the new Prime Minister. Will he be forced to make a statement about his stance on Dorje Shugden practice by the TGIE? Or will everything be kept as it is until the Dalai Lama is no more? Or will the Dalai Lama make an about turn concerning Shugden just before he passes on?
Whatever may be the case, Dorje Shugden's practice must continue to be supported and spread by not only the great Masters and high Lamas who practice Him, but by all who have found His practice so beneficial. This is so that the Dharma teachings of the great Je Tsongkapa and the Gelug lineage will continue to flourish for all times for the benefit of all.
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It would be indeed interesting to see what will transpire with the New PM of TGIE.
Is Dorje Shugden going to be part of their subject in parliament or is there a better need to focus on bringing well being to the Tibetans in exile? Would it not be wiser for them to put all their funds in good use in ensuring education and social welfare of their people is well taken care and that there would be real democratic system in place for their people. Instead of funding spies and wasting time hunting down high lamas, which makes them seem like there is nothing much for them to do in their parliament.
I wonder what would be their main focus now.... TGIE is a govt body without a country, what would be their objective? Continue with the human rights issue that HHDL is wanting from China for Tibetans there? And if so, shouldn't the Tibetans in exile have it too with their freedom to practice whatever they wish, be in Christianity, Hinduism, Dorje Shugden etc...? Would it not be wiser to walk the talk and to start the "human rights issue" from home base first before shouting for it in China?
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The Nepali recently prevented Tibetan rallies against China from happening on the birthday celebration of His Holiness the Dalai Lama's 76th birthday.
This shows that Nepal cares more about its relationship with China's financial aid rather than its relationship with the Dalai Lama. It would seem that China now has more the upper hand in influencing Nepal than India another supoerpower where the Dalai Lama resides in.
[url]http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/07/06/2011-07-06_nepal_bans_tibetan_rallies_on_dalai_lamas_76th_birthday.html[/url]
Last time I was in Nepal, a cabbie told me his car had been 'sponsored' by the Chinese gov who had flooded KTM with Chinese-sponsored taxis. Only makes sense a Maoist-leaning gov would be supportive. At the end of todays' day, economics prevails.
Regarding his ban on Dorje Shugden practice, even when he spoke up about it recently, during a Kalachakra initiation in Washington DC(on the occasion of his birthday), it was like he was just doing so because the TGIE expected him to do so. I believe, he will continue to make a little noise here and there regarding his stance on Dorje Shugden practice. But that will be all.
I did think his relatively mild mentions of the issue were a bit odd but what you said got me thinking. Its true - if HHDL really gave a toss about suppressing Dorje Shugden, he would use his last major public appearances as leader to really drive home the message. It could be a few things - maybe he doesnt want to mar his final days as a political leader with such an issue. But then again, we can weigh that up against his overall reputation as an all-round Warrior of Compassion...how much damage could he do to his reputation if he tried a little harder in his final days to suppress Dorje Shugden?
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Regarding his ban on Dorje Shugden practice, even when he spoke up about it recently, during a Kalachakra initiation in Washington DC(on the occasion of his birthday), it was like he was just doing so because the TGIE expected him to do so. I believe, he will continue to make a little noise here and there regarding his stance on Dorje Shugden practice. But that will be all.
I did think his relatively mild mentions of the issue were a bit odd but what you said got me thinking. Its true - if HHDL really gave a toss about suppressing Dorje Shugden, he would use his last major public appearances as leader to really drive home the message. It could be a few things - maybe he doesnt want to mar his final days as a political leader with such an issue. But then again, we can weigh that up against his overall reputation as an all-round Warrior of Compassion...how much damage could he do to his reputation if he tried a little harder in his final days to suppress Dorje Shugden?
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Well, actually the Dalai Lama is holding back on speaking out against Dorje Shugden because he has already relinquish secular power. The reason the Dorje Shugden ban was enforced in the past was due to his secular power on the Tibetan community at large. Actually, by right, the TGIE can remove the ban on Dorje Shugden immediately as the Dalai Lama is no longer in power. Alternatively, they can keep quiet and not enforce the ban for awhile and just run the Tibetans strictly on secular matters. Let the religious authority be restored on the heads of the various sects and the abbots of the great monasteries.
Even the Dalai Lama speaking out against Dorje Shugden right now will only be heard by his staunch disciples who obviously don't practice Dorje Shugden anymore. All Dorje Shugden practitioners have already gone to the other side. So there's no need for big fanfare about the ban anymore. However, I believe the Dalai Lama would feel that his time is short and he really need to continue pushing Dorje Shugden until his passing.
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His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama on Sunday, 11th September held a public talk on ‘Finding Happiness in the Troubled Times', at the Cruz Azul (Blue Soccer) Stadium in Mexico City, which are being attended by over 30,000 of people including officials, religious scholars, movie star, singers, and musicians.
What is amazing is after His Holiness concluded his talk, the crowd recited in unison in Spanish a popular long-life prayer for His Holiness the Dalai Lama, which says: "In this land surrounded by mountains of snow; You are the source of all solace and joy; All powerful Chen-re-zig, Tenzin Gyatso; Please remain until samsara ends."
No mention of Dorje Shugden.
http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/news/international/2004-over-30000-mexicans-listen-to-his-holiness-the-dalai-lamas-talks