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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Damian.D on June 22, 2011, 08:33:25 PM
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If Dorje Shugden is counted as an Yidam is it possible to reach enlightenment with his practice alone? Everyone says he is an enlightened protector but Enlightened enough to go all the way to enlightenment.
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Before the question is answered, we must understand what's the difference between a Yidam and a Dharma Protector. Both Yidams and Dharma Protectors can be Buddhas or emanations of Buddhas, which means they are equal from their side. However, the role and function of a Yidam makes him/her, higher than a Dharma Protector although both are enlightened and this is from the side of the practitioner.
So, what does Yidams do for us? Yidams are called Yidams because they are propitiated to bring the practitioner directly or indirectly towards full enlightenment. The meditational propitiation text for a Yidam is called a sadhana or Dahkeh. On the other hand, Dharma Protectors are protectors because the propitiation is a request to clear outer and inner obstacles of the practitioner. Hence, according to current lineages of Dorje Shugden, he is propitiated only as a Dharma Protector. The propitiation text for a Dharma Protector is called a Kangso.
However, if a great master of authentic lineage can compose and put his seal towards a Sadhana or Dahkeh, then Dorje Shugden can be propitiated as a Yidam. This would be special because Dorje Shugden physically resides within our world (although he has a mind of Manjushri) so real attainments could be achieved even quicker. However, no sadhana have yet been penned by any great Lama. Perhaps, we need to request and keep requesting till the time is right for this to happen.
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This is an interesting topic which I would like to seek clarification on. Does this mean then that a Lama can create a Yidam from a Dharma Protector? I was told that enlightened Dharma Protectors appear in their worldly forms so that they are closer to us as opposed to our yidams. So what happens when they become yidams? Are they still as accessible?
What would the process be? Can any Lama do it or does it need to be endorsed by the spiritual head of the lineage or a monastery?
Just curious as always.
Thank you!
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This is a wonderful topic. Yes, I would like to know more please...
According to Big Uncle "Yidams are called Yidams because they are propitiated to bring the practitioner directly or indirectly towards full enlightenment."
So just like Wisdom Being's question, does it require a guru to do so, or anyone lama? Or by the monastery. Then how are we decide if we need a Yidam?
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Thank you Damian.D for bringing this up, it's always been in my mind but no sure how and where to bring it up - how do we know who is our Yidam? Do we soul search ? LOL
On a more seriously note, would appreciate if someone could shed some lights on this..
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Do read this thread posted last year. I am most appreciative for TK's sharing on this topic which i think will be most beneficial to our new friends who have joined this forum.
Shugden Arising As A Yidam
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=903.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=903.0)
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If Dorje shugden is suppose to be closer to us, so does it mean by having Dorje Shugden as my Yidam will be more effective? And what is the different between having Dorje Shugden as Yidam and having Manjushri as Yidam?
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Hey DamianD,
That's a good question. Yes, indeed Dorje Shugden, as an emanation of Manjushri, is a fully enlightened being. He is also very special as his previous incarnations were highly attained and respected Lamas, so he can also manifest to us as a teaching Lama (sometimes when he speaks to us through an oracle, he could be coming through as Duldzin, who is a Lama).
I have already written a post about the difference between yidam / dharmapala practice which I think may be helpful in answering your question: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1223.msg15631#msg15631
In short: from the side of the Buddha, there is no difference - he can manifest as a yidam, as a dharma protector, as a dakini / daka etc
The difference is in the way the prayers / practices are presented, which have different effects for us and what we wish to accomplish in our practice. Do read the link.
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Hey DamianD,
That's a good question. Yes, indeed Dorje Shugden, as an emanation of Manjushri, is a fully enlightened being. He is also very special as his previous incarnations were highly attained and respected Lamas, so he can also manifest to us as a teaching Lama (sometimes when he speaks to us through an oracle, he could be coming through as Duldzin, who is a Lama).
I have already written a post about the difference between yidam / dharmapala practice which I think may be helpful in answering your question: [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1223.msg15631#msg15631[/url]
In short: from the side of the Buddha, there is no difference - he can manifest as a yidam, as a dharma protector, as a dakini / daka etc
The difference is in the way the prayers / practices are presented, which have different effects for us and what we wish to accomplish in our practice. Do read the link.
That is very special indeed. AHH yes, to put limitations on the Buddha is like putting limitations on what we can achieve. Basically our demon ego self sabotaging ourselves before we have begun.
So in a sense having Dorje Shugden, we can have Manjushri, and all the Lineage Masters all rolled into the one being, one practice. Hence it is possible to gain enlightenment by practicing Dorje Shugden alone.
Kinda helps clarify the other thread regarding too many practices.
Thanx Beggar.
Whenever I hit a brick wall in future will ask myself...
COULD BUDDHAs really be stopped by such a situation.
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In Vajrayana, everything is about practice, and there is no point in trying to build a grand theory of everything.
In Vajrayana, there is the "trinity of refuge practice", a bit different from the Sutric refuge, and there is also the "trinity of the Buddhas" that is expressed as the Guru, Ishtadevata, Daka/Dakini/Dharmapala, or Lama, Yidam, Pawo/Khandro... or Teacher, Deity, Dakini/Protector. These triune objects act as either the objects of the Tantric Tri-fold refuge, and also as "the three faces of the Buddha". As tor the refuge, the Teacher acts as the Buddha-jewel, the Yidam as the Dharmapractice-jewel, and the Dakinis and Dharmaprotectors as the Sangha-jewel. As for the identity of the Tantric Three Jewels, the Guru, Yidam and Protector can be taken as a single principle of Dharma-source, manifesting in three different aspects of the source, the Buddha-jewel - or even as in sometimes: the Guru is Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.
So, in one sense, the Guru, Deity and Protector are the same, the Buddha-jewel. And yet, they are not, as it is clear that for instance the Guru might live in England, the Yidam being me the practitioner, and the Protector being someone I ask a favour while residing in non-england. The identities and so forth of all these things do all depend on what you practice at a given point of time. No grand theory is asked or available, only separate practices.
The practice of Yidam is about being the Yidam, and that is something one does not do with Protectors - the Dharma and Sangha being different. So no, Shugden is not to be counted as a Yidam. (You might be Guru-Manjushri due to guru-yoga and completion stage practice, and the Guru and Protector might be Manjushri due to some emanational occurence, but nevertheless, you would not be the Protector. Yidam and Dharmapala are not same, no matter how much they both are Manjushri.)
The idea of Fourfold refuge, where the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha are united in the Guru, adds of course more confusion to the situation. But nevertheless, Protectors are not Yidams, as the practice is different. It would be good, if people would practice, not speculate. All the different mandala-classes present different worldviews, and to even to try to get or formulate "a grand unified tantric theory", is doomed on the outset. In Vajrayana, there is only the practice which is rather clear and easy, but the theories, even the canonic theories do note, are in contradiction among themselves, and only muddy the waters of Dharma.
Dorje Shugden is a Protector, who helps the practitioner in his or her ethical activities, be they daily, Sutric or Tantric. The practitioner is nevertheless not Dorje Shugden, and the practitioner cannot practice in a manner thinking he or she would be.
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Yes Dorje Shugen is now just a protector can that change that will depend on whether the people whether a fierce Manjushri needs to arise as a Yidam to suit the people of these times or not.
In the 20h century we have seen the great Domo Geshe install Namka Barzin , his acts mimicked that of Padmasambhava who installed Nechung as a worldly protector sworn to server Buddhism. Yes such scenarios can surely happen.
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In Vajrayana, everything is about practice, and there is no point in trying to build a grand theory of everything.
In Vajrayana, there is the "trinity of refuge practice", a bit different from the Sutric refuge, and there is also the "trinity of the Buddhas" that is expressed as the Guru, Ishtadevata, Daka/Dakini/Dharmapala, or Lama, Yidam, Pawo/Khandro... or Teacher, Deity, Dakini/Protector. These triune objects act as either the objects of the Tantric Tri-fold refuge, and also as "the three faces of the Buddha". As tor the refuge, the Teacher acts as the Buddha-jewel, the Yidam as the Dharmapractice-jewel, and the Dakinis and Dharmaprotectors as the Sangha-jewel. As for the identity of the Tantric Three Jewels, the Guru, Yidam and Protector can be taken as a single principle of Dharma-source, manifesting in three different aspects of the source, the Buddha-jewel - or even as in sometimes: the Guru is Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.
So, in one sense, the Guru, Deity and Protector are the same, the Buddha-jewel. And yet, they are not, as it is clear that for instance the Guru might live in England, the Yidam being me the practitioner, and the Protector being someone I ask a favour while residing in non-england. The identities and so forth of all these things do all depend on what you practice at a given point of time. No grand theory is asked or available, only separate practices.
The practice of Yidam is about being the Yidam, and that is something one does not do with Protectors - the Dharma and Sangha being different. So no, Shugden is not to be counted as a Yidam. (You might be Guru-Manjushri due to guru-yoga and completion stage practice, and the Guru and Protector might be Manjushri due to some emanational occurence, but nevertheless, you would not be the Protector. Yidam and Dharmapala are not same, no matter how much they both are Manjushri.)
The idea of Fourfold refuge, where the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha are united in the Guru, adds of course more confusion to the situation. But nevertheless, Protectors are not Yidams, as the practice is different. It would be good, if people would practice, not speculate. All the different mandala-classes present different worldviews, and to even to try to get or formulate "a grand unified tantric theory", is doomed on the outset. In Vajrayana, there is only the practice which is rather clear and easy, but the theories, even the canonic theories do note, are in contradiction among themselves, and only muddy the waters of Dharma.
Dorje Shugden is a Protector, who helps the practitioner in his or her ethical activities, be they daily, Sutric or Tantric. The practitioner is nevertheless not Dorje Shugden, and the practitioner cannot practice in a manner thinking he or she would be.
Dear Zhalmed Pawo,
You are unclear with your explanation. Why is it that Dorje Shugden cannot be a Yidam? Given that a High Lama of authentic lineage composes his Sadhana? After all, all Sadhanas (lower or higher Tantras), Kangsos etc were composed or compiled by great masters of the past based on the need and karma of the people and time (and also by request). So, could you explain a little clearly so everyone can learn?
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If Dorje shugden is suppose to be closer to us, so does it mean by having Dorje Shugden as my Yidam will be more effective? And what is the different between having Dorje Shugden as Yidam and having Manjushri as Yidam?
To me theres no difference. In fact, I received Manjushri first before Dorje Shugden. I still like Manjushri and even though hes the same mind as Dorje Shugden, for some reason I like Dorje Shugden even more. So its about karmic affinity. Some people feel 'nothing' when they see Tara, but get excited when they see...I dont know, Heruka or Dukkar. Just trust your lama to give you whats appropriate for you. Guru devotion is fundamental to receiving higher practices anyway.
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I would like to clarify whether what I understood is correct. I do not know much about Tantric practices, so perhaps someone can help me out here.
The yidam is chosen, often by a guru, to correspond to a tantra practitioner's own personality. The yidam is visualized in meditation practice as an aid in inner transformation. Francesca Fremantle in The Tibetan Book of the Dead wrote that "The real meaning of yidam is entirely internal and psychological; the yidam is the expression of one's own basic nature, visualised as a divine form in order to relate with it and express its full potentiality."
Thus Yidams do not have the kind of true existence as is attributed to worldly gods. The reason that the yidams appear in various forms, for example peaceful and wrathful, is that the disciples have different attitudes, views and aspirations.
The many yidams we see in pictures and visualize are not “real” and they are symbols of the ultimate yidam. The various forms and attributes of the deities point to manifold habits of clinging, grasping, and holding impure appearances in one's mind. There are so many impure ideas and things one thinks are real. Each yidam symbolizes one of the many aspects of clinging and clutching.
According to Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche, the deities are not solid entities that exist of an own accord. If a practitioner believes a yidam is a substantial entity, he or she will become confused and deluded. One needs to know what their various forms really represent and mean. If we think such a deity is a solid existent, then the yidam wouldn't represent something needing to be purified by an image that can bring this about. Should we believe in a deity with many arms, legs, and eyes, then it would be very foolish. A mistaken practitioner would hold on to an absurd view and fall into a completely wrong path.
So on this basis, isn’t the form of Dorje Shugden possible to be taken as a yidam? In Heart Jewel: The essential practices of Kadampa Buddhism, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso suggested that Dorje Shugden's form reveals the complete stages of the path of Sutra and Tantra.
Dorje Shugden appears as a fully ordained monk to show that the practice of pure moral discipline is essential for those who wish to attain enlightenment. In his left hand, he holds a human heart to symbolize great compassion and spontaneous great bliss – the essence of all the stages of the vast path of Sutra and Tantra. His round yellow hat represents the view of Nagarjuna, and the wave-shaped sword in his right hand teaches us to sever ignorance, the root of samsara, with the sharp blade of wisdom.
So what we need is just an attained great master who can compose a text and explained to us these “hidden secrets” and the appropriate process of meditation, no? I am not saying all protector deities can be yidams, but specifically Dorje Shugden.
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I would like to clarify whether what I understood is correct. I do not know much about Tantric practices, so perhaps someone can help me out here.
The yidam is chosen, often by a guru, to correspond to a tantra practitioner's own personality. The yidam is visualized in meditation practice as an aid in inner transformation. Francesca Fremantle in The Tibetan Book of the Dead wrote that "The real meaning of yidam is entirely internal and psychological; the yidam is the expression of one's own basic nature, visualised as a divine form in order to relate with it and express its full potentiality."
Thus Yidams do not have the kind of true existence as is attributed to worldly gods. The reason that the yidams appear in various forms, for example peaceful and wrathful, is that the disciples have different attitudes, views and aspirations.
The many yidams we see in pictures and visualize are not “real” and they are symbols of the ultimate yidam. The various forms and attributes of the deities point to manifold habits of clinging, grasping, and holding impure appearances in one's mind. There are so many impure ideas and things one thinks are real. Each yidam symbolizes one of the many aspects of clinging and clutching.
According to Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche, the deities are not solid entities that exist of an own accord. If a practitioner believes a yidam is a substantial entity, he or she will become confused and deluded. One needs to know what their various forms really represent and mean. If we think such a deity is a solid existent, then the yidam wouldn't represent something needing to be purified by an image that can bring this about. Should we believe in a deity with many arms, legs, and eyes, then it would be very foolish. A mistaken practitioner would hold on to an absurd view and fall into a completely wrong path.
So on this basis, isn’t the form of Dorje Shugden possible to be taken as a yidam? In Heart Jewel: The essential practices of Kadampa Buddhism, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso suggested that Dorje Shugden's form reveals the complete stages of the path of Sutra and Tantra.
Dorje Shugden appears as a fully ordained monk to show that the practice of pure moral discipline is essential for those who wish to attain enlightenment. In his left hand, he holds a human heart to symbolize great compassion and spontaneous great bliss – the essence of all the stages of the vast path of Sutra and Tantra. His round yellow hat represents the view of Nagarjuna, and the wave-shaped sword in his right hand teaches us to sever ignorance, the root of samsara, with the sharp blade of wisdom.
So what we need is just an attained great master who can compose a text and explained to us these “hidden secrets” and the appropriate process of meditation, no? I am not saying all protector deities can be yidams, but specifically Dorje Shugden.
Dear Vajraprotector,
Yidams are like what you said, a roadmap to enlightenment and so forth. However, they are real and I think the sources that you quote are taken out of context. The Lamas you quote are not saying that Yidams do not exist, they are saying that they don't exist in the way we perceive them to exist. The teaching that you quote seems to be emphasizing on the deeper meaning of Yidams. Perhaps it is a teaching for an audience that regard pujas and sadhanas to these Yidams superficially and do not contemplate the deeper meaning of Yidams.
However, Yidams do exists and Manjushri does exist with him wielding a sword and so forth. They must be real otherwise, why meditate on their holy body? Why not just meditate on teachings and concepts of compassion and wisdom. Actually that will work too but slower as meditating on the body of Buddha is invoking upon the power of a Being who had achieved enlightenment by perfecting the qualities we hope to embody. So it is not just an abstract concept, it is a living Mind of a Buddha in the form of a Yidam.
I don't fully understand some of the things you mentioned like, "Each yidam symbolizes one of the many aspects of clinging and clutching." How can a Yidam symbolize something negative? So, if Dorje Shugden is taken as a Yidam, he becomes more than just a symbol. Through the blessings of the great master who would compose his Sadhana, one would invoke Dorje Shugden's blessings to take us directly towards enlightenment. Based on your logic that Yidams don't exist and Dorje Shugden definitely exists, than how can he be a Yidam? I got a little confused with your argument towards the end...
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This may be totally over my head but here goes...
YIdam is a meditational deity that leads one to enlightenment and helps us to transform our minds.
A protector not only helps us to remove obstacles but certain times they will give us 'challenges' so that we can grow and be better or transform. I think this aspect of the protector which make Dorje Shugden seem similar to a yidam.
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You got me wondering if you can have many different Yidams as your practice. As surely your lama would give you the best one.
Why then would you need another? If as your saying the specific Yidam would lead you through your practice towards enlightenment.
Would you need any other?
I think I read in some other post that Dorje Shugden helps practitioners up to the stage they no longer need a Dharma protector and then they are on their own towards their enlightenment as they would not fall back.
how can it be so Big Uncle?
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From the side of the deity, they are enlightened whether they manifest as a Yidam, Buddha, Bodhisattva, Lama, Protector. Therefore they all have the potential to be a yidam without a doubt. What Buddha cannot present the path according to needs the practices to enlightenment?
Take Manjushri for example:
Manifestations
Yidam-Yamantaka
Bodhisattva- Manjushri
Lama-Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen
Protector-Four Faced Mahakala
Manjushri also manifests as horses (Ruru), Garudas, prostitutes, traders, thiefs, leaders, emperors, etc in this world, other words and other universes without count.
Although Manjushri may manifest as Yidam, Bodhisattva, Lama or Protector, from the various sides of Manjushri, they all can bring you to full enlightenment. But from the presentation of their individual paths (sadhanas-practice texts), they have different functions.
The generation/completion stages, or the four initiations in Yamantaka are not included in Manjushri's practice in form of a Bodhisattva or Four Faced Mahakala.
The clear light and illusory body meditations essential for reaching complete liberation also not found in Manjushri's practice, Four Faced Mahakala. Manjushri's practice is to generate and introduce one to loving compassion, Great compassion, bodhicitta without stressing on emptiness.
So Dorje Shugden IS QUALIFIED TO BE A YIDAM, but at this time his path is not presented as a yidam. So if you use his path to become a Buddha, by the nature of the path presented, you will not gain enlightenment which has nothing to do with Shugden's potential as a yidam himself. Similarily if you practice Black Manjushri, White Manjushri, Four Faced Mahakala, these practices although blessed will not bring you to the path of full enlightenment in itself.
TK
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Thank you TK for the clear explanation.
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To clarify some inaccuracies concerning yidams. You must acquire qualities of the yidam you practice by practice. That's the most important point to know when you decide to begin the practice of a yidam. It is well recommended when you decide to begin to propiate Dorje Phurba to not practice another yidam for instance... Concerning protectors, they do protect dharma, that's it... Maybe they help sometimes, but they do not lead a practioner in his practice when he decides to do a retreat in a dark cave, for instance...
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Thanks Tk for the clear answers. Now I understand the meaning when we read prayers that says you are my Guru, you are my Yidam and my Dharma Protector. So it is the method and path presented for student to practice that will be the road map towards the desired objective.
This now makes sense why we can say Dorje Shugden can be your Yidam....if I understand correctly it is refering to him in Yamantaka form/practice.
So as a Dharma Protector, he helps to clear ones inner and outer obstacles so that one can have good conditions to practice and not be influenced by ones negative karma which will stop or sway us.
However before someone could even reach the stage where they can practice Yamantaka, a Dharma Protector would be most helpful in guiding one towards that path? And since Dorje Shugden is Manjushri, he will be able to bless us with wisdom as well, no?
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You got me wondering if you can have many different Yidams as your practice. As surely your lama would give you the best one.
Why then would you need another? If as your saying the specific Yidam would lead you through your practice towards enlightenment.
Would you need any other?
I think I read in some other post that Dorje Shugden helps practitioners up to the stage they no longer need a Dharma protector and then they are on their own towards their enlightenment as they would not fall back.
how can it be so Big Uncle?
Due to the karma and distraction of our time, people today already have problems keeping up with the practice of just one Yidam. Atisha once told the Tibetans of his time, "You Tibetans practice a hundred Yidams but gain not a single attainment but some of us in India, practice and focus on a single Yidam, we gain the attainments of a hundred Yidams."
This resonate with people today who chase after visiting High Lamas and collect initiations without giving much thought to the vows and Sadhanas required to be upheld. So it is always good to just stick to one Yidam. Some practices like Vajrayogini require one to have a prior higher initiation before initiation into her Sindhura mandala is allowed. By tradition, one also takes a lower initiation as a practice before we take the higher initiation. As for the Lama will chose the best Yidam for us, you are right. Therefore, it would best to cultivate the best and most focussed Yidam practice.
With regards to Dorje Shugden, you are talking about one of the specific vows (we take during his sogtae (initiation)) that mentions that we are to take Dorje Shugden as our principle Dharma Protector until we achieve Bodhichitta. That means that he will protect us until we achieve enlightenment. Upon reaching that state, we no longer need protection and we will automatically become a source of refuge and protector for others instead.
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I thought this is an excellent post to resurrect Dorej Shugde being Manjushri and enlightened can manifest in whatever forms possible as TK put, so why can't Dorje Shuygden become a Yidam practice.
if anyone before time of Lama Tsongkhapa said there could be another lineage/tradition many people would have scorned that statement and ridiculed it, another Buddha. If Lama Tsongkhapa can found a lineage, surely Dorje Shugden can become a yidam practice. The High Lama who does this will take on all karma of the people practicing it so if there is any impropriety he is going to get it right? What High Lam in their right mind will do it to deceive others knowing the full implications of this?
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You got me wondering if you can have many different Yidams as your practice. As surely your lama would give you the best one.
Why then would you need another? If as your saying the specific Yidam would lead you through your practice towards enlightenment.
Would you need any other?
I think I read in some other post that Dorje Shugden helps practitioners up to the stage they no longer need a Dharma protector and then they are on their own towards their enlightenment as they would not fall back.
how can it be so Big Uncle?
Having loyalty to one's Yidam and one's Guru is very important in our practice, as prescribed by our Gurus. Therefore, it is not necessary to go for every initiation in town and collect them as one would with stamps and the like although some people like to take on many initiations but do not do the homework and commitments that the yidams and initiations require. I guess, at the end of the day, it depends on what do you look for: exoticness or results in Dharma practice?
Having said that, Dorje Shugden is a fully qualified Yidam and he does protect us until we do not need a Dharma protector anymore: when we achieve Bodhicitta in our mindstreams and when it is no longer reversible.
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This is a very good question.
I thanks Big Uncle on his clear explanation about Yidam and Protector
The difference between an Yidam and a Dharma Protector. Both Yidams and Dharma Protectors can be Buddhas or emanations of Buddhas, which means they are equal from their side. However, the role and function of a Yidam makes him/her, higher than a Dharma Protector although both are enlightened and this is from the side of the practitioner.
A Buddha, with compassionate heart and skill of wisdom will manifest to into many forms which closet to us. To helps us to achieve the ultimate goal-whereby to protect us and lift us to the path of enlightenment or to keep us close to Dharma in every rebirth. Therefore, their manifestation is beyond our imagination.
I hereby quote the other answer by tk on August 20, 2010, 07:18:59 PM : http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=903.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=903.0)
Easily from Dorje Shugden's side, we can say he is a yidam. But from the path of presentation of his puja text, he is propitiated as protector. It would be wonderful if Dorje Shugden can be used as a Yidam with the full generation and completion stages of the highest yoga tantra included within his practice. It would require that we request Dorje Shugden via the oracles to give such text or a highly accomplished level lama can compose one such as Pabongka Rinpoche, Gangchen Rinpoche, Yongyal Rinpoche, or Gaden Trisur Lungrik Namgyal.
From the answer by tk, Dorje Shugden can definately be an Yidam. It is a matter of time waiting for a text to be composed.
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This is a very good question.
I thanks Big Uncle on his clear explanation about Yidam and Protector
The difference between an Yidam and a Dharma Protector. Both Yidams and Dharma Protectors can be Buddhas or emanations of Buddhas, which means they are equal from their side. However, the role and function of a Yidam makes him/her, higher than a Dharma Protector although both are enlightened and this is from the side of the practitioner.
A Buddha, with compassionate heart and skill of wisdom will manifest to into many forms which closet to us. To helps us to achieve the ultimate goal-whereby to protect us and lift us to the path of enlightenment or to keep us close to Dharma in every rebirth. Therefore, their manifestation is beyond our imagination.
I hereby quote the other answer by tk on August 20, 2010, 07:18:59 PM : [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=903.0[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=903.0[/url])
Easily from Dorje Shugden's side, we can say he is a yidam. But from the path of presentation of his puja text, he is propitiated as protector. It would be wonderful if Dorje Shugden can be used as a Yidam with the full generation and completion stages of the highest yoga tantra included within his practice. It would require that we request Dorje Shugden via the oracles to give such text or a highly accomplished level lama can compose one such as Pabongka Rinpoche, Gangchen Rinpoche, Yongyal Rinpoche, or Gaden Trisur Lungrik Namgyal.
From the answer by tk, Dorje Shugden can definately be an Yidam. It is a matter of time waiting for a text to be composed.
You are right. There is no difference between the Yidam and the protector as Dorje Shugden can easily grant attainments to those who are sincere and those who truly rely on him, just like how a Yidam does. However at this time it is more suited for Dorje Shugden to appear as a Dharma protector. Perhaps in the future where our obstacles has lessened, he will appear in the form of a Yidam and someone will be compose the prayers that enables us to rely on Dorje Shugden in the form of a Yidam and gain attainments.
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I understand that in the Monastic order the understanding of each and every Buddha, Protector, Yidams, Dakinis must be clear so that the teachings can be transmitted to us.
It is my opinion that Dorje Shugden can be our Yidam as DS removes our obstacles so that we can practise the Doctrine of Je Tsongkapa and achieve enlightenment. Yidams are Buddhas to whom we devote ourselves to, in order to gain enlightenment. So if that is the case, why not the Buddha who protects us and the doctrine of Je Tsongkapa not be able to be our Yidam.
Thank all the contributors to this article for their clear points of view and explanations.