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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: vajralight on May 13, 2011, 11:34:33 AM
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I believe we will soon see that the Dalai Lama has effectively taken over the FPMT. I am pretty sure that he will install one of his stooges to lead the FPMT and continue his crusade against Dorje Shugden practitioners. He will also continue to mix the Gelugpa teachings with other lineages (already happening in FPMT) and make sure that the pure Ganden lineage will have no future in the FPMT.
(Ofcourse all in the spirit of Rimé )
Sadly Lama Zopa has given away control of the FPMT already many years ago. Now they will most probably reap the bitter fruits of that action and the pure Ganden lineage will disappear from the FPMT.
How sad.....
Vajra
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I believe we will soon see that the Dalai Lama has effectively taken over the FPMT. I am pretty sure that he will install one of his stooges to lead the FPMT and continue his crusade against Dorje Shugden practitioners. He will also continue to mix the Gelugpa teachings with other lineages (already happening in FPMT) and make sure that the pure Ganden lineage will have no future in the FPMT.
(Ofcourse all in the spirit of Rimé )
Sadly Lama Zopa has given away control of the FPMT already many years ago. Now they will most probably reap the bitter fruits of that action and the pure Ganden lineage will disappear from the FPMT.
How sad.....
Vajra
This thought didn't cross my mind at all. I was contemplating if Lama Zopa passes away in the future, what would happen to FPMT. But what you say makes sense. If the Dalai Lama outlives Lama Zopa, FPMT could be taken over by him. Or even Sera Je Monastery takes over and continues the rampage against Shugden worldwide.
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I believe we will soon see that the Dalai Lama has effectively taken over the FPMT. I am pretty sure that he will install one of his stooges to lead the FPMT and continue his crusade against Dorje Shugden practitioners. He will also continue to mix the Gelugpa teachings with other lineages (already happening in FPMT) and make sure that the pure Ganden lineage will have no future in the FPMT.
(Of course all in the spirit of Rimé)
What exactly is "Rimé"?
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And, do we know if Lama Osel Rinpoche has re-acted or commented on the situation?
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Dear Hope
What exactly is "Rimé"?
Rimé is a Tibetan word which means "no sides", "non-partisan" or "non-sectarian". In a religious context, the word ri-mé is usually used to refer to the "Eclectic Movement" between the Buddhist Nyingma, Sakya, and Kagyu traditions, along with the non-Buddhist Bön religion, wherein practitioners "follow multiple lineages of practice."The movement was founded in Eastern Tibet during the late 19th century largely by Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo and Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye, the latter of whom is often respected as the founder proper. The Rimé movement is responsible for a large number of scriptural compilations, such as the Rinchen Terdzod and the Sheja Dzö.
(read more about it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rime_movement)
HH the 14th Dalai Lama claims to want to promote Rime in order to unite the different schools of Buddhism under his spiritual leadership and criticises Shugden practitioners for being sectarian hence against Rime. It is up to us to continue to bring awareness to others that Shugden practice is NOT sectarian and far from it. How can the practice of any enlightened being be sectarian? Impossible.
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is there any youtube footage showing HHDL saying this?
I have never heard of Rime before. Its quite disturbing as it sounds like virgin ground policy. Whereby a colonisiing country such as the portuguese, or the English for that matter, laying down laws which they have no jurisdiction to enforce in the first place.
Imagine a new lands people, being told they are breaking laws that they never made or agreed to in the first place.
This is very sneaky politically and wide reaching in its scope. I hope the other sects realise what they are agreeing to. Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu are siging there own demise by agreeing to this kind of policy.
What of lineage after that?!@?!@?!
Does anyone else see whats happening here?
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Dear Hope
What exactly is "Rimé"?
Rimé is a Tibetan word which means "no sides", "non-partisan" or "non-sectarian". In a religious context, the word ri-mé is usually used to refer to the "Eclectic Movement" between the Buddhist Nyingma, Sakya, and Kagyu traditions, along with the non-Buddhist Bön religion, wherein practitioners "follow multiple lineages of practice."The movement was founded in Eastern Tibet during the late 19th century largely by Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo and Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye, the latter of whom is often respected as the founder proper. The Rimé movement is responsible for a large number of scriptural compilations, such as the Rinchen Terdzod and the Sheja Dzö.
(read more about it here [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rime_movement[/url])
HH the 14th Dalai Lama claims to want to promote Rime in order to unite the different schools of Buddhism under his spiritual leadership and criticises Shugden practitioners for being sectarian hence against Rime. It is up to us to continue to bring awareness to others that Shugden practice is NOT sectarian and far from it. How can the practice of any enlightened being be sectarian? Impossible.
I remember reading that Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche was strongly against Rime movement. I don't recall from where though but I do agree with this viewpoint because the Rime movement dilute the precious and sacred lineages by allowing practitioners to practice multiple lineages. This may work for advance practitioners and great masters who have their feet firmly planted in their vows. However, for modern practitioners with numerous distractions and appetite for supermarket spirituality, lineages and gurus are like the daily groceries they shop for. Picking and choosing between the best bargains and best labels. Thus the Dharma degenerate even further. I don't claim to fathom the Dalai Lama's reasons for promoting Rime but I do think that is at the level of most people today. He advocates this so more people will embrace the Dharma.
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I found this relevant to this discussion, sorry if it is a bit long:
From the blog -
http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/2011/02/dalai-lamas-sectarian-non-sectarian.html (http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/2011/02/dalai-lamas-sectarian-non-sectarian.html)
"Another red herring is the Dalai Lama talking about 'Rime' or 'Rigme' (pronounced Reemay). Here is an example from a talk he gave on 14th January 2011 as reported by Voice of Tibet radio:
Since I, as an ordinary body of Amdo, got the name of fourteen Dalai Lama, I ought to follow the steps of my predecessors. It is my responsibility to serve the Rigme teachings of Tibet.
Rime is a non-sectarian movement that began in Tibet, prompted by the political infighting between the different traditions of Tibetan Buddhism. The Dalai Lama is claiming the Rime is non-sectarian and should be followed whereas the practice of Dorje Shugden is sectarian. By making such false claims, and encouraging discrimination against a religious tradition that was promoted by his own Teacher, the Dalai Lama shows himself to be sectarian. The approach of Rime is quite different to that of the Dalai Lama. Ringu Tulku says:
Ris or Phyog-ris in Tibetan means "one-sided", "partisan" or "sectarian". Med means "No". Ris-med (Wylie), or Rimé, therefore means "no sides", "non-partisan" or "non-sectarian". It does not mean "non-conformist" or "non-committal"; nor does it mean forming a new School or system that is different from the existing ones. A person who believes the Rimé way almost certainly follows one lineage as his or her main practice. He or she would not dissociate from the School in which he or she was raised.
Rime therefore doesn't mean practising all traditions. It also doesn't mean blurring the lines between traditions, as the Dalai Lama is wont to do:
Rimé is not a way of uniting different Schools and lineages by emphasising their similarities. It is basically an appreciation of their differences and an acknowledgement of the importance of having this variety for the benefit of practitioners with different needs. Therefore the Rimé teachers always take great care that the teachings and practices of the different Schools and lineages and their unique styles do not become confused with one another. To retain the original style and methods of each teaching lineage preserves the power of that lineage experience. Kongtrul and Khentse made great efforts to retain the original flavour of each teaching, while making them available to many.
This shows that the Dalai Lama is using Rime for his own political purposes of uniting all the schools of Tibetan Buddhism (and even the non-Buddhist Bon school) under his control. He has distorted the meaning of the teaching. This is clear from a talk he gave to a Russian audience on 27 November 2010 in response to a question about receiving empowerments from different traditions:
Quote DL: " There is no problem. No differences are there at all. You should receive Gelug empowerment; you should receive Nyingma empowerment; you should receive Sakya empowerment; and you should receive Kagyu empowerment. As for me, I receive all of them. Well, all Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu and Geden are students of seventeen Mahasiddas and scholars. Shugden worshippers are saying that if a Gelugpa worship Shugden, it is incorrect to keep a text of Nyingma. That is wrong. In twenty century, because of Shugden, sectarian is developing in Tibet. This is wrong."
Notice that the Dalai Lama uses this occasion to unfairly brand Shugden practitioners as sectarian. He also uses wrong logic to justify eclecticism: 'Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu and Geden are students of the seventeen Mahasiddhas and scholars'. While this is undoubtedly true, there are important differences in their presentation of Buddha's teachings which are appreciated by those who follow Rime but not by the Dalai Lama. We can therefore see that true Rime celebrates diversity, whereas the Dalai Lama's idea of Rime is to amalgamate the schools by claiming there is no difference and everyone should practice all schools, expressly against the Rime edict that one should follow one lineage as one's main practice and no dissociate from that school. The Dalai Lama has dissociated himself from the Gelugpa school and from his root Guru through his criticism of Dorje Shugden practice and practitioners. His actions are therefore sectarian and non-Rime, even though he claims to have banned the practice because he's non-sectarian!
Ask yourself this question: How is someone non-sectarian by banning a religious practice and outlawing it? This is clearly contradictory. It's against the Rime teachings that the Dalai Lama claims to support.
There are further contradictions in the Dalai Lama's position. In his speech of 14th January, the Dalai Lama says he must follow his predecessors by protecting the Rime school, but the First Dalai Lama, Je Gendundrub wrote a beautiful praise to Je Tsongkhapa called Song of the Eastern Snow Mountain in which he says:
From now until enlightenment
I shall seek no refuge other than you.
O Venerable Father and Sons (Je Tsongkhapa and his two spiritual sons, Khedrubje and Gyaltsabje)
Please care for me with your compassion.
The Rime system didn't exist until the nineteenth century, five hundred years after the First Dalai Lama proclaimed his sole refuge to be Je Tsongkhapa. Rime is therefore a relatively recent development. The present Dalai Lama seems to have forsaken Je Tsongkhapa's tradition for the sake of following no tradition (he's not following Rime, as clearly explained) and he has also forsaken the kindness of his Gurus by having them branded as spirit worshippers."
Vajra
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I found this relevant to this discussion, sorry if it is a bit long:
From the blog -
[url]http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/2011/02/dalai-lamas-sectarian-non-sectarian.html[/url] ([url]http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/2011/02/dalai-lamas-sectarian-non-sectarian.html[/url])
"Another red herring is the Dalai Lama talking about 'Rime' or 'Rigme' (pronounced Reemay). Here is an example from a talk he gave on 14th January 2011 as reported by Voice of Tibet radio:
Since I, as an ordinary body of Amdo, got the name of fourteen Dalai Lama, I ought to follow the steps of my predecessors. It is my responsibility to serve the Rigme teachings of Tibet.
Rime is a non-sectarian movement that began in Tibet, prompted by the political infighting between the different traditions of Tibetan Buddhism. The Dalai Lama is claiming the Rime is non-sectarian and should be followed whereas the practice of Dorje Shugden is sectarian. By making such false claims, and encouraging discrimination against a religious tradition that was promoted by his own Teacher, the Dalai Lama shows himself to be sectarian. The approach of Rime is quite different to that of the Dalai Lama. Ringu Tulku says:
Ris or Phyog-ris in Tibetan means "one-sided", "partisan" or "sectarian". Med means "No". Ris-med (Wylie), or Rimé, therefore means "no sides", "non-partisan" or "non-sectarian". It does not mean "non-conformist" or "non-committal"; nor does it mean forming a new School or system that is different from the existing ones. A person who believes the Rimé way almost certainly follows one lineage as his or her main practice. He or she would not dissociate from the School in which he or she was raised.
Rime therefore doesn't mean practising all traditions. It also doesn't mean blurring the lines between traditions, as the Dalai Lama is wont to do:
Rimé is not a way of uniting different Schools and lineages by emphasising their similarities. It is basically an appreciation of their differences and an acknowledgement of the importance of having this variety for the benefit of practitioners with different needs. Therefore the Rimé teachers always take great care that the teachings and practices of the different Schools and lineages and their unique styles do not become confused with one another. To retain the original style and methods of each teaching lineage preserves the power of that lineage experience. Kongtrul and Khentse made great efforts to retain the original flavour of each teaching, while making them available to many.
This shows that the Dalai Lama is using Rime for his own political purposes of uniting all the schools of Tibetan Buddhism (and even the non-Buddhist Bon school) under his control. He has distorted the meaning of the teaching. This is clear from a talk he gave to a Russian audience on 27 November 2010 in response to a question about receiving empowerments from different traditions:
Quote DL: " There is no problem. No differences are there at all. You should receive Gelug empowerment; you should receive Nyingma empowerment; you should receive Sakya empowerment; and you should receive Kagyu empowerment. As for me, I receive all of them. Well, all Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu and Geden are students of seventeen Mahasiddas and scholars. Shugden worshippers are saying that if a Gelugpa worship Shugden, it is incorrect to keep a text of Nyingma. That is wrong. In twenty century, because of Shugden, sectarian is developing in Tibet. This is wrong."
Notice that the Dalai Lama uses this occasion to unfairly brand Shugden practitioners as sectarian. He also uses wrong logic to justify eclecticism: 'Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu and Geden are students of the seventeen Mahasiddhas and scholars'. While this is undoubtedly true, there are important differences in their presentation of Buddha's teachings which are appreciated by those who follow Rime but not by the Dalai Lama. We can therefore see that true Rime celebrates diversity, whereas the Dalai Lama's idea of Rime is to amalgamate the schools by claiming there is no difference and everyone should practice all schools, expressly against the Rime edict that one should follow one lineage as one's main practice and no dissociate from that school. The Dalai Lama has dissociated himself from the Gelugpa school and from his root Guru through his criticism of Dorje Shugden practice and practitioners. His actions are therefore sectarian and non-Rime, even though he claims to have banned the practice because he's non-sectarian!
Ask yourself this question: How is someone non-sectarian by banning a religious practice and outlawing it? This is clearly contradictory. It's against the Rime teachings that the Dalai Lama claims to support.
There are further contradictions in the Dalai Lama's position. In his speech of 14th January, the Dalai Lama says he must follow his predecessors by protecting the Rime school, but the First Dalai Lama, Je Gendundrub wrote a beautiful praise to Je Tsongkhapa called Song of the Eastern Snow Mountain in which he says:
From now until enlightenment
I shall seek no refuge other than you.
O Venerable Father and Sons (Je Tsongkhapa and his two spiritual sons, Khedrubje and Gyaltsabje)
Please care for me with your compassion.
The Rime system didn't exist until the nineteenth century, five hundred years after the First Dalai Lama proclaimed his sole refuge to be Je Tsongkhapa. Rime is therefore a relatively recent development. The present Dalai Lama seems to have forsaken Je Tsongkhapa's tradition for the sake of following no tradition (he's not following Rime, as clearly explained) and he has also forsaken the kindness of his Gurus by having them branded as spirit worshippers."
Vajra
These are good points and well written. Many things to remember and contemplate for future. It seems Tibetan Govt people wishes to lessen the Gelug lineage.
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This is very interesting.
First, they say they want to unite all schools of Buddhism so that all traditions can be appreciated.
Then they brand every school under this banner called, Rime and at the same time, proceed to ban Dorje Shugden - the practice that is important to Gelug.
So, how is that appreciating all the important aspects of each tradition and school?
I am inclined to agree with Thai Monk that they want to lessen the Gelug tradition. But why just single out the Gelug tradition to lessen and not others? Is it because Gelug has become too popular over the years and is the largest?
Sorry if these questions sound too elementary. Hope someone could enlighten me.
Thank you.
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This is very interesting.
First, they say they want to unite all schools of Buddhism so that all traditions can be appreciated.
Then they brand every school under this banner called, Rime and at the same time, proceed to ban Dorje Shugden - the practice that is important to Gelug.
So, how is that appreciating all the important aspects of each tradition and school?
I am inclined to agree with Thai Monk that they want to lessen the Gelug tradition. But why just single out the Gelug tradition to lessen and not others? Is it because Gelug has become too popular over the years and is the largest?
Sorry if these questions sound too elementary. Hope someone could enlighten me.
Thank you.
My thoughts:
It has to show "illogical" upon first inspection.
It has to lack valid reasons upon closer inspection.
Why? Because it makes us "inspect" further and I believe it is the "inspection" that HH wants to trigger.
Why? The inspection makes us connect and at least a seed is planted, and for some more meritorious, they start a powerful practice that leads to liberation from sufferings.
We can see, through the news for example, that we only need a "scandal" to draw our attention, most of us love a good scandal, and we delect ourselves in "inspecting" all aspects of it...
Of course, once one has reconciled DS and HH in his mind, there is no more "illogical", and the reasoning is clear.
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I remember reading that Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche was strongly against Rime movement. I don't recall from where though but I do agree with this viewpoint because the Rime movement dilute the precious and sacred lineages by allowing practitioners to practice multiple lineages. This may work for advance practitioners and great masters who have their feet firmly planted in their vows. However, for modern practitioners with numerous distractions and appetite for supermarket spirituality, lineages and gurus are like the daily groceries they shop for. Picking and choosing between the best bargains and best labels. Thus the Dharma degenerate even further. I don't claim to fathom the Dalai Lama's reasons for promoting Rime but I do think that is at the level of most people today. He advocates this so more people will embrace the Dharma.
In actuality, the Rime movement was never meant for lay practitioners. The original intent of the movement was to save lineages that were dying out during the 18th century, but it quickly evolved into a cover for the insecurities of the other 3 lineages against Gelukpa. Rime is essentially redundant as Gelug has teachings from all 3 lineages, on the base of the Kadampa, so how can it be sectarian and the theory of the combination of teachings that is said in Rime is found in Gelug as well, except that rime in general focuses more on the preservation of lineages rather than philosophical tenets. Those who engage in rime are not ordinary practitioners but they are usually very highly attained ones. It is logical that Pabongkha rejected the idea, not because he was sectarian, but because it was actually a curtain used to attack the Gelugs. Many early Rime masters have criticized Gelug, although the later ones were cordial. However, now, there is a trend of westerners and non gelugs practicing 'rime' and uses it as an excuse and justification for them to center hop and to put down gelugs.
At the current moment, it does seem that the main purpose of the ban is to weaken Gelugpa so that the other lineages will not feel threatened or compelled to create problems. Even on the internet itself, there are many anti gelug people around and some may use Dorje Shugden as an excuse to tell people to not be gelug, while others just downright say that Gelug is bad and they should go to their lineage instead. When asked further, they claim that is what was told to them by their Gurus. Where did this come from? These are the exact same people who 'uphold' rime.
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Dear Hope
What exactly is "Rimé"?
Rimé is a Tibetan word which means "no sides", "non-partisan" or "non-sectarian". In a religious context, the word ri-mé is usually used to refer to the "Eclectic Movement" between the Buddhist Nyingma, Sakya, and Kagyu traditions, along with the non-Buddhist Bön religion, wherein practitioners "follow multiple lineages of practice."The movement was founded in Eastern Tibet during the late 19th century largely by Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo and Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye, the latter of whom is often respected as the founder proper. The Rimé movement is responsible for a large number of scriptural compilations, such as the Rinchen Terdzod and the Sheja Dzö.
(read more about it here [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rime_movement[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rime_movement[/url]))
HH the 14th Dalai Lama claims to want to promote Rime in order to unite the different schools of Buddhism under his spiritual leadership and criticises Shugden practitioners for being sectarian hence against Rime. It is up to us to continue to bring awareness to others that Shugden practice is NOT sectarian and far from it. How can the practice of any enlightened being be sectarian? Impossible.
In my own opinion, the Rimé movement would not be suitable for people of today as people who are often spoilt with choices take on different Buddhist masters based on their whims and facies.
Take for example in Singapore, there are many Dharma centres with Rinpoches and High Lamas flying in and out of the country almost in the twist of the week. This week u have a Yellow Lama giving initiations and conducting pujas and the entire hall will be filled by people who are there to spectate the awe. But in reality, how many of those in the crowd are willing and looking for a real practice? Half the time they won't be able to understand what the Lama is talking about on stage.
When the Yellow Lama leaves, a White Lama comes around and then the entire saga comes about again. The same when a Red Lama, etc etc come to the island. There won't be a mediator in between all these different schools to guide people on what to adopt and abandon. There isn't a Lama who is here all the time who is available for the student when the student needs the Lama and vice versa when the Lama needs the group of students to help in providing the pure Dharma of a pure lineage to impart to more students.
If we were to start a Rimé movement in a country like Singapore, it would be a clash of interest from different groups. Knowing that people of today are unstable in mind, it would be easier for one Lama to take responsibility of the student and his spiritual well being.
Each lineage has its own uniqueness and means to tame the mind. None is better or above another, but what is more important in order for the mind of the student to grow, and for each lineage to keep its purity, and continuity, it is important to adhere to the One Guru, One Yidam, one Centre one protector concept of practice.
I think this would be the best solution for the 21st century.
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I believe we will soon see that the Dalai Lama has effectively taken over the FPMT. I am pretty sure that he will install one of his stooges to lead the FPMT and continue his crusade against Dorje Shugden practitioners. He will also continue to mix the Gelugpa teachings with other lineages (already happening in FPMT) and make sure that the pure Ganden lineage will have no future in the FPMT.
(Ofcourse all in the spirit of Rimé )
Sadly Lama Zopa has given away control of the FPMT already many years ago. Now they will most probably reap the bitter fruits of that action and the pure Ganden lineage will disappear from the FPMT.
How sad.....
Vajra
The Dalai Lama has taken over FPMT. The only thing left that Lama Zopa has is his ladrang as even Kopan has been taken over by the Dalai Lama in essence, although the monks there are still connected to Lama Zopa. It was the monks from Kopan and CTA officials who told nasty things Pabongkha Rinpoche's sponsors and turned them away from Pabongkha Rinpoche. Lama Zopa is still teaching and traveling, but not since the stroke. The Dalai Lama taking over FPMT is more or less to be expected as most of the students in FPMT are also the students of the Dalai Lama. Most of the time, when the Dalai Lama visits a country, it is the FPMT center there that will be the first to respond and the first to greet, promote and organize. The people there desperately want to be seen with the Dalai Lama until they forget Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa. In that way, FPMT centers have became HHDL's centers, and that is the reality that we are facing now and that explains why they have so much rumor mongering.
FPMT expanded quickly during the 80s, when Lama Yeshe was alive. After he passed away, the ban started and intensified and subsequently became full blown and almost immediately, all of Lama Yeshe's students who practiced Dorje Shugden were quickly expelled from FPMT centers and it wasnt very long before FPMT was flooded by Dalai Lama's students. The whole thing actually happened very quickly, within a few months and it was from that day onwards that FPMT actually became the Dalai Lama's center and no longer Zopa Rinpoche's. Lama Zopa may be the founder of the center and the spiritual guide of FPMT, but only in name as it is very clear that the center is now run almost entirely by the Dalai Lama and even subscribes to his views. Perhaps, Lama Zopa offered it up to the Dalai Lama already.
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I think this situation is quite ridiculous. So Lama Zopa decides to abolish the practice of Shugden in the FPMT centres and those who upheld Lama Yeshe's practice of Shugden left. That should not mean that the students who remained should give up their allegiance to Lama Zopa! Neither does it mean that FPMT has become the Dalai Lama's centre!
Those who are still in FPMT today should uphold Lama Zopa as their spiritual guide and root guru, and accept no other unless it comes from Lama Zopa's mouth. If someone comes along and tries to usurp that position and take control of FPMT, they should not accept it. Whether it is the Dalai Lama, or someone else, why betray your root guru? To be politically correct? I don't think so.
And don't forget, the people of FPMT are so fortunate that their founder Lama Yeshe decided to reincarnate and be found. Lama Osel is alive and well today, and his whereabouts are not unknown. If I were an FPMT student, I would follow Lama Zopa to the end, and when he enters clear light, I would seek out Lama Osel and appeal to jm to resume his rightful place at the head of FPMT. Lama Yeshe returned for a reason, why let that go to waste?
Just see here for a in depth explanation of the situation between Lama Osel, Lama Zopa and FPMT. Isn't it clear enough? http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/fpmt-for-breaking-away-from-their-guru-and-lineage-this-is-the-result/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/fpmt-for-breaking-away-from-their-guru-and-lineage-this-is-the-result/)
FPMT has a long history with Dorje Shugden and strong ties to his practice. New FPMT members may not know it, but the old ones sure do. They would do well not to ignore it. After all, it was Dorje Shugden who recognized Lama Zopa (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/fpmt-for-breaking-away-from-their-guru-and-lineage-this-is-the-result/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/fpmt-for-breaking-away-from-their-guru-and-lineage-this-is-the-result/))
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I think this situation is quite ridiculous. So Lama Zopa decides to abolish the practice of Shugden in the FPMT centres and those who upheld Lama Yeshe's practice of Shugden left. That should not mean that the students who remained should give up their allegiance to Lama Zopa! Neither does it mean that FPMT has become the Dalai Lama's centre!
They did not left, they were kicked out of their spiritual home by people who took over the organization because suddenly, the Dharma protector that their Guru gave them is an illegal one and that they now no longer belong to the place that they once called their spiritual home. How horrible and wrong this is on so many levels!
Those who are still in FPMT today should uphold Lama Zopa as their spiritual guide and root guru, and accept no other unless it comes from Lama Zopa's mouth. If someone comes along and tries to usurp that position and take control of FPMT, they should not accept it. Whether it is the Dalai Lama, or someone else, why betray your root guru? To be politically correct? I don't think so.
Sadly, most of these people believe in rime, and by rime they mean accepting whatever it is that comes out from the mouths of whatever holy lamas that are in town. Even if they are not Gelug lamas. So there you go: Guru devotion for you in FPMT.
And don't forget, the people of FPMT are so fortunate that their founder Lama Yeshe decided to reincarnate and be found. Lama Osel is alive and well today, and his whereabouts are not unknown. If I were an FPMT student, I would follow Lama Zopa to the end, and when he enters clear light, I would seek out Lama Osel and appeal to jm to resume his rightful place at the head of FPMT. Lama Yeshe returned for a reason, why let that go to waste?
Lama Osel is in spain, manifesting in a way where FPMT can no longer benefit from his teachings. I dont think Lama Osel will return. Being political and breaking samaya repeatedly has its consequences, why would he want to go back to a place where the students went against his practices?
Just see here for a in depth explanation of the situation between Lama Osel, Lama Zopa and FPMT. Isn't it clear enough? [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/fpmt-for-breaking-away-from-their-guru-and-lineage-this-is-the-result/[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/fpmt-for-breaking-away-from-their-guru-and-lineage-this-is-the-result/[/url])
FPMT has a long history with Dorje Shugden and strong ties to his practice. New FPMT members may not know it, but the old ones sure do. They would do well not to ignore it. After all, it was Dorje Shugden who recognized Lama Zopa ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/fpmt-for-breaking-away-from-their-guru-and-lineage-this-is-the-result/[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/fpmt-for-breaking-away-from-their-guru-and-lineage-this-is-the-result/[/url]))
The main reason for FPMT's growth is one thing alone: Dorje Shugden. If it was not for Dorje Shugden, FPMT would not have grown at all. Ever since Dorje Shugden was denounced by them, FPMT centers worldwide have stagnated, and there is no news at all of any new FPMT centers opening anywhere. Is the results not clear enough?
As much as we want to believe in the ideal situation of how things should be, the reality is that FPMT students are not holding their Guru samaya, and a direct result of that is that Lama Osel left them, and FPMT degenerating and stagnating. Perhaps, those involved feel like they have their right to choose their Guru, and their Lama should not have a say on it, and that their real Guru is the Dalai Lama who also took up many Gurus, so there is no point following Lama Zopa since the Dalai Lama is of a higher rank.
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I didmt know about this, look like its true. By the way, is Dalai Lama throne title similar to the Pope in the catholic faith? If so, i do not know the real reason for Lama zopa to offer fpmt to the DL. For his health reasons? To unite against the DS practitioner? Nevetheless, even before fpmt is handed over to the DL, fpmt centres are anti-ds diehard fans, you can see on all their events application forms with a declaration statement on all Ds practitioners are not allowed in the premises.
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I didmt know about this, look like its true. By the way, is Dalai Lama throne title similar to the Pope in the catholic faith? If so, i do not know the real reason for Lama zopa to offer fpmt to the DL. For his health reasons? To unite against the DS practitioner? Nevetheless, even before fpmt is handed over to the DL, fpmt centres are anti-ds diehard fans, you can see on all their events application forms with a declaration statement on all Ds practitioners are not allowed in the premises.
You know what is sad. FPMT by right, should be lead by the incarnation of Lama Yeshe and that is Lama Osel. Unfortunately, this highly attained master has manifested as a lay practitioner that is uninterested in heading the organizations. Some say that is because of the broken samaya committed by senior students with samaya to Lama Yeshe, who propitiated Dorje Shugden in the past, that is why Lama Osel is not with FPMT. I wonder when the ban gets lifted and FPMT resumes propitiation of Dorje Shugden, would that have any effect on Lama Osel. Would he finally return to FPMT. That would be fantastic because FPTM does have quite a number of centers all over the Western world.
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You know what is sad. FPMT by right, should be lead by the incarnation of Lama Yeshe and that is Lama Osel. Unfortunately, this highly attained master has manifested as a lay practitioner that is uninterested in heading the organizations. Some say that is because of the broken samaya committed by senior students with samaya to Lama Yeshe, who propitiated Dorje Shugden in the past, that is why Lama Osel is not with FPMT. I wonder when the ban gets lifted and FPMT resumes propitiation of Dorje Shugden, would that have any effect on Lama Osel. Would he finally return to FPMT. That would be fantastic because FPTM does have quite a number of centers all over the Western world.
I dont think so even if the ban is lifted, Lama Osel will return because the samaya is already broken and the gap between the teacher and the student is very wide. It will take a lot of effort to overturn the fanaticism and the schism that FPMT has created. Lama Zopa offered FPMT up to the Dalai Lama the moment he declared that Dorje Shugden be outlawed from FPMT. There is no question about that. And I can understand why he did what he did: because most of his students were already breaking their samaya en masse by allowing the Dalai Lama's instructions to override Lama Zopa's instructions. How can anyone allow anyone to override their Guru's instructions so easily? When the ban is lifted, FPMT's credibility will be destroyed to the point where it can never be repaired, and it will cause a lot of pain and heartache to everyone that is involved with FPMT. It will not survive. By then, Lama Zopa would also have distanced himself from FPMT to the point that there is no more connection between him and FPMT. FPMT must mend their samaya before the ban is lifted if things are to heal.
At this rate, it would be too difficult for anyone to reverse the ban and hatred on Dorje Shugden in FPMT centers. The sad part is, most of the people who are against the ban dont even know the real reason behind it and neither do they know who Dorje Shugden really is. By the time the ban is lifted, people will know how stupid they are, and whatever credibility they have will be lost as people will see how stupid they are to criticize something they did not know in the first place.