dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: LosangKhyentse on March 05, 2011, 04:30:01 AM
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Denma Locho Rinpoche of Loseling
Gaden Jangtze Monastery Serkong Khamtsen Gaser Tulku Rinpoche requested H.E. Denma Locho Rinpoche (DLR) for a series of teachings to be given in Drepung Loseling's Prayer hall. DLR accepted as he is already 85 years old but in stunning health. DLR is one of the most senior and knowledgeable Gelug Lamas alive today. DLR is a very close disciple of the previous Kyabje Ling Rinpoche. DLR has mentioned he does not practice Dorje Shugden but has tremendous faith in him. He feels and expressed secretly if Dorje Shugden is not propitiated, it would be a great damage to the Gelug lineage as he is the primary protector now.
One day before the set teachings were to be given in Loseling, Drepung Gomang monks posted letters all over the Monastery stating people should not attend DLR's teachings as he is 'not clean'.
Many monks from Gaden Shartse, Gaden Jangtze and Drepung Loseling were attending the precious teachings by this living treasure DLR. But the letters posted created doubts and problems. After three days of teachings, Gaden Jangtze Administration ordered should any monks from their Monastery dare attend DLR's teachings, they will be expelled. Just after three days, the teachings stopped completely. It was Gaser Tulku of Gaden Jangtze who requested for the teachings, but Gaden Jangtze Monastery disallowed Gaser Tulku and all Jangtze monks to attend! The irony is beyond description.
These days even giving and receiving dharma teachings becomes political and dangerous. It is a very sad state. The only place the Gelug teachings can be transmitted openly and without intereferences to large crowds would be at Shar Gaden Monastery and Serpom Monastery. We must support them if we wish future Gelug masters to arise within the Dorje Shugden pure lineage.
As you may know, DLR travelled to Taiwan a few years back at the request of Serkong Tritul Rinpoche and his disciple Jamseng Rinpoche to give a series of empowerments/commentaries. It was photographed and Tibetan Govt / Dalai Lama got wind of it. From then the troubles started as Serkong Tritul and Jamseng Rinpoche are strong practitioners of Dorje Shugden.
DLR was very close to the Dalai Lama until he travelled to Taiwan. It is reported that whenever Dalai Lama visits Drepung or Gaden, DLR is now sidelined and basically ignored. DLR does not deserve in any way to be treated in such a manner. DLR is a supreme Tulku incarnation, highly learned, a pure monk and very senior among the sangha and he should be treasured. You may also know that over a decade or more back, DLR was selected to be the Abbot of Namgyal Monastery. Namgyal Monastery is the personal Monastery of Dalai Lama and Dalai Lama was the one that selected DLR to be abbot. Upon successful completion of his term as Namgyal Monastery's abbot in Dharamsala. He was awared the title "Namdra Kensur" or Abbot Emeritus of Namgyal Monastery. With this title he has a throne set for him in Drepung Loseling's prayer hall equal to the other abbot emeritus' of their monastery, Gyume and Gyuto tantric colleges.
It should be noted DLR was browbeaten by the Dalai Lama to visit his region in Tibet (Denma) to ask the Monastery/locals to stop practicing Dorje Shugden. He visited on several occasions to Denma and many other parts of Tibet, but never mentioned one word against Dorje Shugden to the dismay of Dalai Lama. DLR in fact showed great respect toward the Shugden practice always just as he shows great respect towards the Dalai Lama. Nevertheless, Dalai Lama was very displeased with this old and sagely Lama for not following instructions by speaking of the ills of Shugden in Tibet.
It is very sad what is continuing to happen to DLR. Such a supreme being and so learned. Such a waste. I feel personally DLR should join Shar Gaden Monastery. That would be a powerful message to the Tibetan Govt in exile.
He could transmit so much teachings to the eager monks there.
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Gyume Kensur Rinpoche of Jangtze
Recently Gyume Kensur Rinpoche (Gongpo Khamtsen Geshe Chatee) was expelled from Gaden Jangtze Monastery. Dalai Lama in a meeting with abbots in Gaden mentioned Gyume Kensur Rinpoche (GKR) doesn't come to see him anymore nor attend his teachings. With that pronouncement, the current Abbot of Jangtze Monastery wrote a letter to GKR in France expelling him. The current abbot (Hamdong Khamtsen Geshe Chopel) is a disciple of GKR also! The current abbot is said to be gentle and kind and would practice Dorje Shugden strongly. He is forced to take this action to expel his own guru. How politics forces us to commit actions against everything correct.
The current Gaden Jangtze abbot is so terrified of the Dalai Lama. He doesn't want his political clout as a abbot to be threatened it seems. He will give up his guru samaya to expel his own teacher from the Monastery. It would have been better he resigned from his post as abbot than to expel his own teacher for political reasons. The abbot of all people should exemplify the dharma to his sangha of the his monastery. In the future his horrendous action will catch up with him. People will think deeper, that his motives are political and not dharmic in nature at all. Very sad news.
On a inspirational note, GKR would not take this lying down as the saying goes. He wrote and sent letters to Gaden, Sera and Drepung stating that he has already sworn 'against' Dorje Shugden's practice while he was in Gyume Monastery (as he was forced to), so he will not return to Gaden Jangtze to swear 'again'. He cannot honestly swear against this practice as Dorje Shugden is the practice of many elite masters both present and past. So swearing against Dorje Shugden is tantamount to swearing against them. He could not do that as swearing in front of the sangha should not be taken lightly he mentioned in his letter. He listed in his letter the names of many great masters who practiced Dorje Shugden. GKR seems to be in correct alliance with his teachers, has loyalty, understands the dharma profoundly and has the courage to practice under such political pressures. My heart goes out to GKR and may he live long and healthy in France.
Again I hope GKR will join Shar Gaden Monastery also. After all the previous Gaden Tripa Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal (now addressed as Trisur Rinpoche) has joined Gaden Jangtze Monastery).
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Ven Choden Rinpoche of Sera Je
A senior Tulku Ven Choden Rinpoche (Hlopa khamtsen) Sera Je Monastery has recently sent his brother ( a monk) to their home district (Chamdo) in Tibet to speak for Dorje Shugden and to promote the practice. Choden Rinpoche is 78 years old and has many discples in Sera Je. He is considered like the Denma Locho Rinpoche calibre in Loseling within Sera Je. Dalai Lama has scolded him recently for his promotion of Dorje Shugden in Chamdo. Many Sera Je monks has become the disciple of this Tulku and enjoyed countless dharmas from him. Now due to political pressures, this might change. When I get more information I will share here regarding this.
Ven Choden Rinpoche is a disciple of Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche according to his biography.
( http://chantamantra.com/index.php/articles/57-the-inspiring-story-of-choden-rinpoche & http://www.anandadharma.org/rinpoche/rinpoche.php )
More and more senior Teachers are opposing quietly and some directly to the Dorje Shugden ban. Let's hope this trend continues.
TK
Below pictures:
1.H.E. Denma Locho Rinpoche offering long life to Dalai Lama years back during better times.
2. H. E. Denma Locho Rinpoche (Scholar's hat of Panchen Sonam Drakpa)
3. H.E. Denma Locho Rinpoche with Jamseng Rinpoche in Taiwan.
4. Sera Je Choden Rinpoche
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Thank you for the information on these three great lamas. Denma Locho Rinpoche's story is tragic - that he is such a great being yet he was sidelined just because of the link with Dorje Shugden. It shows that no one is spared with regard to the ban on this practice. Similarly Gyume Kensur Rinpoche. So sad that politics has dampened the potential of these great masters. On the other hand, I'm happy to hear that Choden Rinpoche supports the practice Dorje Shugden - implicitly if not explicitly. It wasn't clear in the other article about Chonden Rinpoche.
I fully agree with you that if these lamas were to move to Shar Gaden or Serpom Monasteries, it would be a great gesture. After all, the most highly esteemed Gaden Trisur has set an excellent example by his move to Shar Gaden. And he is in excellent company as HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche is there too!
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It's starting to sound like politics is above spirituality... indeed disturbing.
Well, it is amazing that Denma Locho Rinpoche at age 85 is turning the wheel of dharma. How many lay people are able to even take care of ourselves at that age. It never fails to amaze me how the minds of monks are so stable even though advanced in age.
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It is very sad to hear that the politics continues to disturb the "peace" in the monastery, and this time, Dharma teaching/ learning has to be stopped for politics!
I agree that if Denma Locho Rinpoche joins Shar Gaden, it will send another powerful message to the TGIE, just like how it did with Gaden Trisur Rinpoche.
Currently there are only 4 throneholders (listed on the website) in Shar Gaden: Kyabje Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche, Trisur Rinpoche Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal, Kyabje Domo Geshe Rinpoche, and Venerable Abbot Geshe Lharampa Lobsang Phende. This is definitely not enough and I hope more and more senior or high lamas would join in to let others know that Shugden practice is not wrong!
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Is it a matter of money or space that the many Lama's caught up in this propogated ban don't just join Shar Gaden.
Just how much Dharma would be lost if these great masters don't teach. Its like throwing gold away, literally. These Masters learnt from the best minds this century. How easy all that knowledge and teachings could be lost if we do nothing at all, or create causes for them to teach in this lifetime openly.
I praise this site for at least what is being done is keeping Dorje Shugden practice alive in times of adversity. Just what will these little monks learn growing up during these times? Learning the texts on guru devotion when those we're supposed to be devoted to, show how guru devotion has become selective.
May these Great Masters find a home soon, may the practitioners practice openly once again.
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Thank you tk!
The stories of these great Lamas are very moving and inspiring! I couldn't help but shed a few tears for these great Lamas. They suffered so much for their devotion to the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden and yet they do it with so much dignity and grace. Lamas like these deserved the highest honor instead of the nasty way they are treated now. I hope their students will plead with them to consider enrolling into Shar Gaden or Serpom Monasteries.
Their luminary presence would be great appreciated there and without all the persecution and politics. Just reading about their struggles makes my own personal struggles so insignificant. They inspire me thus to practice harder and hopefully be able to carry the burden of the Dharma and for Dorje Shugden's practice to endure long.... Just like what they are doing now. I too pray that they will live long and be well taken cared of so the Dharma will grow and the next generation of Lamas, scholars, yogis and practitioners - both lay and monastic will grow and increase!
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Is it a matter of money or space that the many Lama's caught up in this propogated ban don't just join Shar Gaden.
Just how much Dharma would be lost if these great masters don't teach. Its like throwing gold away, literally. These Masters learnt from the best minds this century. How easy all that knowledge and teachings could be lost if we do nothing at all, or create causes for them to teach in this lifetime openly.
I praise this site for at least what is being done is keeping Dorje Shugden practice alive in times of adversity. Just what will these little monks learn growing up during these times? Learning the texts on guru devotion when those we're supposed to be devoted to, show how guru devotion has become selective.
May these Great Masters find a home soon, may the practitioners practice openly once again.
Roberto, thanks for sharing.
It is sad isn't it - all these so-called Dharma practitioners, in defense of the Dalai Lama's ban, are out to destroy dorje Shugden's practice and practitioners, but they fail to realise that by doing so, they are also destroying a whole tradition and a whole corpus of teachings. If you suppress a practitioner, or an institution (such as their attacks on Dokhang Khangtsen before), you don't just suppress one of their practices, you end up suppressing all their work, their teachings, their practices since they are all connected. . How sad that they are killing the Dharma when they think they are mistakenly thinking that they are doing Dharma "a favour" by suppressing Dorje Shugden.
I too rejoice in the efforts of this website to uphold this sacred practice of Dorje Shugden, as well as to provide plenty of resources to many other aspects of Dharma - all of which are connected, of course.
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Gyume Kensur Rinpoche of Jangtze
Recently Gyume Kensur Rinpoche (Gongpo Khamtsen Geshe Chatee) was expelled from Gaden Jangtze Monastery. Dalai Lama in a meeting with abbots in Gaden mentioned Gyume Kensur Rinpoche (GKR) doesn't come to see him anymore nor attend his teachings. With that pronouncement, the current Abbot of Jangtze Monastery wrote a letter to GKR in France expelling him. The current abbot (Hamdong Khamtsen Geshe Chopel) is a disciple of GKR also! The current abbot is said to be gentle and kind and would practice Dorje Shugden strongly. He is forced to take this action to expel his own guru. How politics forces us to commit actions against everything correct.
The current Gaden Jangtze abbot is so terrified of the Dalai Lama. He doesn't want his political clout as a abbot to be threatened it seems. He will give up his guru samaya to expel his own teacher from the Monastery. It would have been better he resigned from his post as abbot than to expel his own teacher for political reasons. The abbot of all people should exemplify the dharma to his sangha of the his monastery. In the future his horrendous action will catch up with him. People will think deeper, that his motives are political and not dharmic in nature at all. Very sad news.
On a inspirational note, GKR would not take this lying down as the saying goes. He wrote and sent letters to Gaden, Sera and Drepung stating that he has already sworn 'against' Dorje Shugden's practice while he was in Gyume Monastery (as he was forced to), so he will not return to Gaden Jangtze to swear 'again'. He cannot honestly swear against this practice as Dorje Shugden is the practice of many elite masters both present and past. So swearing against Dorje Shugden is tantamount to swearing against them. He could not do that as swearing in front of the sangha should not be taken lightly he mentioned in his letter. He listed in his letter the names of many great masters who practiced Dorje Shugden. GKR seems to be in correct alliance with his teachers, has loyalty, understands the dharma profoundly and has the courage to practice under such political pressures. My heart goes out to GKR and may he live long and healthy in France.
Again I hope GKR will join Shar Gaden Monastery also. After all the previous Gaden Tripa Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal (now addressed as Trisur Rinpoche) has joined Gaden Jangtze Monastery).
I cannot believe my eyes when I read this. The current abbot of Jangtze Monastery (Hamdong Khamtsen Geshe Chopel) expelled his own guru, Gyume Kensur Rinpoche??
It is just another excellent example that Religion should never be mixed with politic.
Politic....... A big pullutant to one's spiritual journey.
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One thing we know for sure is the consistency in persecuting Dorje Shugden practitioners...irregardless of spiritual attainments, elite masters are being put down. So much focus and energy is channelled towards this cause. Shouldn't an exiled government be busy instead to reestablish itself and gain back their country.
Instead, so much energy is put towards picking on Dorje Shugden practitioners.
Well, Dorje Shugden MUST be powerful and important to warrant this!! :)
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One thing we know for sure is the consistency in persecuting Dorje Shugden practitioners...irregardless of spiritual attainments, elite masters are being put down. So much focus and energy is channelled towards this cause. Shouldn't an exiled government be busy instead to reestablish itself and gain back their country.
Instead, so much energy is put towards picking on Dorje Shugden practitioners.
Well, Dorje Shugden MUST be powerful and important to warrant this!! :)
Excellent point. I agree with everything said here. A refugee government should have many other duties to attend to instead of religious persecution. Non-democratic bias against certain religious practices are not the hallmark of a successful government whatsoever. Real govts tolerate and accept all religions. No wonder Tibetans lost their country and will never gain it back. Look at how their govt operates sorry to say. Very sad indeed. The Tibetan govt never learns it's lessons. You already lost your country which is a huge embarrassing shame. And cannot get it back, double shame. Now you create religious discord within your own communities. Even the Chinese are allowing Tibetans to practice whatever sect they choose in Tibet. It's ironic. For religious freedom, looks like the Tibetans should return to Tibet. At least under the Chinese govt you can practice whatever form of Buddhism you wish.
TK
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It is sad that even the highest level of monastic hierarchy is not free of politics and eight worldly concerns. The news of the abbot of Ganden Jangtze Monastery, Hamdong Khamtsen Geshe Chopel expelling his own guru, Gyume Kensur Rinpoche (GKR) from the monastery in order to toe the line with the DL to protect his position as the Abbot is indeed appalling.
This shows how when stakes are threaten, what people can resort to doing just to maintain the status quo. No disrespect meant to the sangha but the action of the Abbot certainly do not show a good example of Guru Devotion to the sangha community.
I hope GKR would join Shar Gaden where he can disseminate his knowledge and passed down the precious gelugpa lineage teaching with freedom in an environment where he will be accorded proper respect and treatment worthy of a high lama. May GKR live long and continue to turn the wheel of Dharma.
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If I was the abbot, I would have resigned from my position than to expel my own teacher.
It would send a powerful message to the Sangha, to my guru, to Dalai Lama and Tibetan Govt to resign.
The Tibetan govt/Dalai Lama has a policy, anyone that does not toe the line, they will be expelled or removed. This policy is unspoken/subtle and is from old Tibet. It has carried through to current times. Tibetan Govt is a 19th century style govt existing in the 21st century.
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If I was the abbot, I would have resigned from my position than to expel my own teacher.
It would send a powerful message to the Sangha, to my guru, to Dalai Lama and Tibetan Govt to resign.
The Tibetan govt/Dalai Lama has a policy, anyone that does not toe the line, they will be expelled or removed. This policy is unspoken/subtle and is from old Tibet. It has carried through to current times. Tibetan Govt is a 19th century style govt existing in the 21st century.
I agree with what you wrote, Thai Monk.
I would resign as well to re-affirm the foundation of the lineage and the essence of the Ensa Whispered tradition.
How can one disciple act against her/his Teacher, let alone, expel the Teacher?
It is un-heard of and very heart-breaking!
Seriously, people just need to open their eyes and see for themselves - Shugden practitioners and Lamas are NOT the ones creating schism and breaking up the community or even doing actual harm to their Tibetan culture/tradition.
It is those in government themselves.
They are really killing the Gelugpa lineage and the Tibetan tradition all on their own.
Shugdenpas did not even need to utter a single word or raise a finger.
Like DS Friend wrote - so much effort and time spent on oppressing and prosecuting Shugden monks and Lamas, not the same amount of time and effort spent on re-building their community or consolidating their people and culture.
I rejoice for Shar Gaden and Serpom Monasteries and all the Shugden monasteries around the world, wherever they are - those that are in existence and those that are being built.
They have been the ones busy, upholding the Dharma and the Gelugpa Lineage.
May they truly have everything that they need and more.
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The Tibetan govt never learns it's lessons. You already lost your country which is a huge embarrassing shame. And cannot get it back, double shame. Now you create religious discord within your own communities. Even the Chinese are allowing Tibetans to practice whatever sect they choose in Tibet. It's ironic. For religious freedom, looks like the Tibetans should return to Tibet. At least under the Chinese govt you can practice whatever form of Buddhism you wish.
TK
I have NOT come across any articles or watched any videos of Tibetan refugees in India expressing how happy they are nor have what they expected to, which was to be close to the Dalai Lama and to be able to freely practice.
What's the point of risking their lives and taking the arduous and dangerous journey over the great mountains? Where is the religious freedom? It is sad, a lost cost. They are separated from their families...all for what? I'm sorry, but it seems like a mirage in the desert.
TK, IF i was a Tibetan refugee in India, more than likely i would have returned to Tibet!
The comforting thought is that China, the fast growing giant has taken in Dorje Shugden!
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I find it really weird that a student can expel his own guru. It doesn't send a very good message across to his own students. I wonder what is whispered in the monastery's hall, or how the monks of Gaden Jangtze feel about the expulsion of Gyume Kensur Rinpoche.
Yes, perhaps it shows that the abbot of Gaden Jangtze is more influenced in politics rather than religion - but could it not be part of the 'game play' for the bigger picture?
I agree with what Thai Monk says though, I would've resigned as well. What a big impact that would've been: Subtly pressured by HHDL to expel your own guru, but you instead step down. It would've showed so much loyalty and gratitude towards his teacher. Shame he did otherwise.
They are really killing the Gelugpa lineage and the Tibetan tradition all on their own.
Shugdenpas did not even need to utter a single word or raise a finger.
Like DS Friend wrote - so much effort and time spent on oppressing and prosecuting Shugden monks and Lamas, not the same amount of time and effort spent on re-building their community or consolidating their people and culture.
I rejoice for Shar Gaden and Serpom Monasteries and all the Shugden monasteries around the world, wherever they are - those that are in existence and those that are being built.
They have been the ones busy, upholding the Dharma and the Gelugpa Lineage.
May they truly have everything that they need and more.
It's true, isn't it? They say that Shugdenpas worship a spirit, and by doing so we will stop them from getting Tibet back. I think that they're doing a pretty good job not getting their country back on their own. Shugdenpas can sit, watch and wait. It's really an illusory play!
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Well, that is precisely why they just have to blame it all one someone...in this case, Dorje Shugden.
Now, we are beginning to see the real results - which group is falling apart and its existence is in danger of completely diminishing, and what group is growing and becoming stronger.
The end is near for TGIE.
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The Tibetan govt never learns it's lessons. You already lost your country which is a huge embarrassing shame. And cannot get it back, double shame. Now you create religious discord within your own communities. Even the Chinese are allowing Tibetans to practice whatever sect they choose in Tibet. It's ironic. For religious freedom, looks like the Tibetans should return to Tibet. At least under the Chinese govt you can practice whatever form of Buddhism you wish.
TK
I have NOT come across any articles or watched any videos of Tibetan refugees in India expressing how happy they are nor have what they expected to, which was to be close to the Dalai Lama and to be able to freely practice.
What's the point of risking their lives and taking the arduous and dangerous journey over the great mountains? Where is the religious freedom? It is sad, a lost cost. They are separated from their families...all for what? I'm sorry, but it seems like a mirage in the desert.
TK, IF i was a Tibetan refugee in India, more than likely i would have returned to Tibet!
The comforting thought is that China, the fast growing giant has taken in Dorje Shugden!
I agree. If I was a Tibetan refugee in India, I would either get myself back to Tibet or get to a foreign country and far far far away from the TGIE.
Precisely many Tibetans have purchased their visas for Indian Rupees 700,000 (US$22,000) in Delhi. There are 'agents' set up in Delhi who are getting wealthy. They have special connections and can get Tibetans special visas to enter the US and stay within a year or sooner. Many Tibetans have left India using this and once they get to the US they apply for their green card.
Many Tibetans living in for example New York City are washing dishes, working as nannies, cooking in resteraunts, or busboys. Some are delivery boys for Pizza places. Anything to get away from India. Many have left due to relgious persecution and more have left because TGIE has been ineffective in creating jobs to support the Tibetans in India. Livelihood is very difficult.
Dalai Lama is aging. More and more will leave for fear of the aftermath of his death and their lives in India.
TK
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Yes, the news of the two great Lamas being so callously treated is most disturbing and appalling. Yet, I agree with Jessicajameson that it’s got the makings of an illusory drama.
It’s making not only Tibetan refugees in India wonder, but interested people everywhere else also, why the practice of Tibetan Buddhism (in the other parts of the world) under the Dalai Lama is experiencing such great schism and repression , whereas in China, not only is the practice of the pure Gelugpa lineage of Je Tsongkapa (with its Dharmapala Dorje Shugden) being 'strongly encouraged', but the other three lineages are also being allowed to be practiced freely there too.
Indeed, the more these stories are being circulated, the more people are going to be looking towards the Shar Gaden and Serpom Monasteries in India, and other Dorje Shugden monasteries elsewhere in the world to preserve and spread the Dharma of the pure Gelugpa lineage as the hope for Liberation and Enlightenment for people of this age.
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TK
This is news to me about the visas and how the Tibetans are in desperation just to leave India, not knowing where life will take them and settling for anything just to make ends meet. How sad! What a fragmented society...
I suppose this is what the laypeople will do
And just like what Vajrastorm observed, ordained sangha members who are excommunicated/expelled/ leave their original monastery for Serpom, Shar Gaden.
As the saying goes, when one door closes, many, many other doors will open...
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Hey DS, I love what you wrote - when one door closes, many, many doors will open.
Let's create the causes for many more doors to open and for Dorje Shugden to really grow and spread even more.
In whatever we do - be it just talking or explaining to a new friend about Dorje Shugden or distributing brochures, whether we tweet, blog or put it in our Facebook or create websites and Forums - everything helps a great deal.
When our efforts are combined as such - all over the world - imagine the impact.
How beautiful is that!
We are benefiting so so many people in this way, bringing Dorje Shugden into their lives.
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Many Tibetans living in for example New York City are washing dishes, working as nannies, cooking in resteraunts, or busboys. Some are delivery boys for Pizza places. Anything to get away from India. Many have left due to relgious persecution and more have left because TGIE has been ineffective in creating jobs to support the Tibetans in India. Livelihood is very difficult.
Dalai Lama is aging. More and more will leave for fear of the aftermath of his death and their lives in India.
TK
It's so sad, how the TGIE is the government for Tibet - Tibet is the heart of Buddhism (to many) - TGIE represents HHDL by representing His country - The country that TGIE represents, represents Buddhism.
Yet they cannot care enough about their people to concentrate their limited resources and energy towards where things matter.
They don't care enough to make changes where things matter to their own people.
Can't they create jobs instead of sticking their noses into places where they create more harm than good?
Can't they try to provide their own people with better lives, instead of wasting their time and money printing out hate posters all over a country that's not even theirs.
So much for practicing compassion.
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Just because they are Tibetans does not mean they understand Buddhism let alone practice. Many Tibetans are very ignorant and know very little of Buddhism. I have met one Tibetan Buddhist monk who didn't know what Tara looked like! I kid you not.
Most lay Tibetans are more concerned on how to make enough money to live the good life. They just follow along govt policies because they have no choice and do not know any better. Nor do most of them care. They all know after the Dalai Lama passes, it's the end. Now that is why you see the mad scramble of many of them trying to immigrate to other countries out of India, Nepal and Bhutan.
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Just because they are Tibetans does not mean they understand Buddhism let alone practice. Many Tibetans are very ignorant and know very little of Buddhism. I have met one Tibetan Buddhist monk who didn't know what Tara looked like! I kid you not.
Most lay Tibetans are more concerned on how to make enough money to live the good life. They just follow along govt policies because they have no choice and do not know any better. Nor do most of them care. They all know after the Dalai Lama passes, it's the end. Now that is why you see the mad scramble of many of them trying to immigrate to other countries out of India, Nepal and Bhutan.
I guess that is simply samsara. I'm quite amazed at the Tibetan monk who didn't know what Tara looked like! I can imagine lay Tibetans not being familiar with Buddhist deities but a monk? Gosh.
For the pure Buddhist teachings to spread to other countries, i guess Tibet had to be invaded so the Lamas would travel to all corners of the world and the Dalai Lama would become the international 'celebrity' and icon of Buddhism that he has turned into. I wonder what would have happened if Tibet had NOT been invaded. What would the world's Buddhist landscape be like. Would Dorje Shugden practice be banned? After all, there would be no threat to Tibet's independence then. Interesting.
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Just because they are Tibetans does not mean they understand Buddhism let alone practice. Many Tibetans are very ignorant and know very little of Buddhism. I have met one Tibetan Buddhist monk who didn't know what Tara looked like! I kid you not.
Most lay Tibetans are more concerned on how to make enough money to live the good life. They just follow along govt policies because they have no choice and do not know any better. Nor do most of them care. They all know after the Dalai Lama passes, it's the end. Now that is why you see the mad scramble of many of them trying to immigrate to other countries out of India, Nepal and Bhutan.
I guess that is simply samsara. I'm quite amazed at the Tibetan monk who didn't know what Tara looked like! I can imagine lay Tibetans not being familiar with Buddhist deities but a monk? Gosh.
For the pure Buddhist teachings to spread to other countries, i guess Tibet had to be invaded so the Lamas would travel to all corners of the world and the Dalai Lama would become the international 'celebrity' and icon of Buddhism that he has turned into. I wonder what would have happened if Tibet had NOT been invaded. What would the world's Buddhist landscape be like. Would Dorje Shugden practice be banned? After all, there would be no threat to Tibet's independence then. Interesting.
Wisdom Being, I like your thoughts and hypotheticals.
I believe if Tibet was not invaded, the dharma would still spread but much slower and not as mainstream. The Tibetan govt are a very closed group of ppl in the past. In the early 1900 before the invasion they banned most of the foreigners who wished to visit Tibet. They refused diplomatice ties with many. A few like Anagarika Govinda and Alexandra David Neel had to disguise their way in. Stayed undercover throughout their whole journey in Tibet. A few also did get permission but not many. Tibetans and especially the then Tibetan govt were very xenophobic.
The Tibetan govt are open now and welcome any diplomatic ties and connections to the rich, big and famous because they need financial and diplomatic support. Because of their mishandling of their country, they lost it. It's been embarrassing for them to have no headway in their negotiations with China. China is smarter than anticipated by the Tibetans.
Most likely Shugden's practice would not have been banned as there is no reason for the ban. If Tibet was not invaded, Dalai Lama would have full power of authority with no dissension therefore no need to ban Shugden. Shugden has been banned for partially political reasons and then of course the spiritual reason. Shugden is blamed for all the mishaps that occur within the exiled Tibetan community as illogical to karma as it sounds. Shugden is blamed for not gaining headway with China Talks. Shugden is even blamed for potentially threatening the long life of Dalai Lama. In short, Shugden is a 'great' scapegoat.* Trijang Rinpoche already predicted the obstacles that would arise and how Dalai Lama and Shugden would work hand in hand to make the practice enormous in the world. Trijang Rinpoche clearly said, it may not appear Dalai Lama is helping Shugden practice to grow, but it is only appearance. All the pro and anti Dalai Lama/Shugden sentiments are only temporary.
2,000 years ago Christians were fed to the lions for five hundred years and accepted as the correct thing to do among the Romans. Well now Christianity is a dominant force. Likewise who knew the persecution against the early Christians would fuel the underground Christian movement of those times and make Christianity what it is today. Similarily, the persecution Shugdenpas feel today by the Dalai Lama is all part of the plan. The protests, Geshe Kelsang's stance, Trijang Rinpoche's volume on Shugden, this website, many other websites, Tibetan Govt's childish behaviour, etc etc are all part of the grand scheme of things. A few decades later, a few hundred years later all this will be forgotten and Shugden's practice prevails.
TK
*just imagine the rise of Nazi's are blamed on Mother Mary. The death of Martin Luther King is blamed on his guardian angels. Or Gandhi's death is blamed on Shiva' lack of protection. Nelson Mandela's two decade imprisonment is St Michael's fault. Imagine if all world leaders blame mishaps and potential/actual assasinations as the fault of mystical non-physical entities as does the superstitious-minded Tibetan govt. Why would Dalai Lama attribute problems within the Tibetan community as arising from Shugden and the peasant Tibetans believe it?
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Very profound and thought provoking points set forth by TK and WB.
Thank you both. It has given me a lot to think about.
When TK puts it as the monk who does not even know what Tara looks like - it reminds me of something my Guru said - that the real Dharma will disappear in the future. There may be temples or centers but there will be no real practice of Dharma. That is how Dharma will die.
Come to think of it - what we have witnessed of Tibet's history or journey is similar to the statement above.
The whole country may be Buddhists and have many temples and centers but not every one is really practising any real Dharma. They seem to revere more than practice. And when we revere - it is usually something kept at a distance, not incorporated into our daily lives. Therefore, it is not part of us but more like something outside of us.
If this is so, then definitely Dharma would have been dying in Tibet. Or at least, starting its demise.
If China did not invade Tibet - Dharma would not have flourished and here, I mean real practising Dharma - not just pray and adhere to some spiritual monastic rules and policies. I mean, the Dharma that lives inside of us.
This is why Dorje Shugden is needed more than ever - Dorje Shugden is the Protector of real Dharma. Dorje Shugden would never allow Dharma to die, not on HIS watch. This, I firmly and truly believe.
After Tibetan Buddhism have broken out into the world - the real practitioners of Dharma seem to be all those living outside of Tibet. Westerners and Easterners alike - the newly "baptised" Tibetan Buddhists are more concerned with making Dharma part of their everyday lives, if not incorporating into every aspect of their lives period.
After studying Dharma and having a Guru for so many years, I have come to the conclusion that Dharma is not some dry dead intellectual or even academic pursuit. It is not even really a religion - to be just propitiated and revered on a pedestal.
Dharma is to be lived, experienced, learnt and then it evolves with us as we grow and evolve as well.
With the way things have turned out, I can see how great attained and Enlightened Beings will work and have worked to bring Dharma to everyone. Literally, to bring Dharma onto every door step and to help individuals become real Dharma practitioners. How else can anyone achieve Enlightenment? It is certainly not accomplished through just praying and lighting incense and revering spiritual leaders.
The transformation within has to take place...then that's real Dharma in action.
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RECENT NEWS:
After Gaden Jangtze Monastery expelled their own Gyurme Kensur Geshe Chatee from their monastery in order to please the Dalai Lama in such haste, they had an after thought. After the Dalai Lama finished his stay in Gaden and the dust settled, Gaden Jangtze monks had a meeting and regretted the expulsion of this great lama and master. Many in Jangtze have received teachings from him. But what is done is done. Regrets and broken samaya is the lot of the day for them who commit actions for political ends. They expelled one of their great teachers just to look clean and Shugden free. But what they ended up on the table with is much worse-broken samaya.
TK
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RECENT NEWS:
After Gaden Jangtze Monastery expelled their own Gyurme Kensur Geshe Chatee from their monastery in order to please the Dalai Lama in such haste, they had an after thought. After the Dalai Lama finished his stay in Gaden and the dust settled, Gaden Jangtze monks had a meeting and regretted the expulsion of this great lama and master. Many in Jangtze have received teachings from him. But what is done is done. Regrets and broken samaya is the lot of the day for them who commit actions for political ends. They expelled one of their great teachers just to look clean and Shugden free. But what they ended up on the table with is much worse-broken samaya.
TK
It is not easy for samsaric beings not to fall under the influence of the 8 worldly concerns. Even the monastics who are highly trained in Dharma are not spared if real practice is not internalised. When the stakes are high and those involved have the authority and power at their disposal to protect themselves, it is most likely they will use it even if it is at the expense of someone whom they have receive great care and benefit from.
At this point gratitude, loyalty and integrity are all thrown to the wind. Self protection predominate regardless of the price. However, when the dust settles and some conscience prevails, all is too late. The unimaginable broken samaya has been committed.
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RECENT NEWS:
After Gaden Jangtze Monastery expelled their own Gyurme Kensur Geshe Chatee from their monastery in order to please the Dalai Lama in such haste, they had an after thought. After the Dalai Lama finished his stay in Gaden and the dust settled, Gaden Jangtze monks had a meeting and regretted the expulsion of this great lama and master. Many in Jangtze have received teachings from him. But what is done is done. Regrets and broken samaya is the lot of the day for them who commit actions for political ends. They expelled one of their great teachers just to look clean and Shugden free. But what they ended up on the table with is much worse-broken samaya.
TK
Thanks for sharing this news. I guess the motivation of the monks behind the expulsion of their Gyume Kensur were on the eight mundane concerns - to want praise from the Dalai Lama and not want blame, to want a good reputation and not want shame, to want to ensure they have material support from the TGIE and not want material loss.
Regret after the fact is always a bummer. At least they do realise and regret - that's a start, though in this case, there's nothing much they can do about broken samaya.
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RECENT NEWS:
After Gaden Jangtze Monastery expelled their own Gyurme Kensur Geshe Chatee from their monastery in order to please the Dalai Lama in such haste, they had an after thought. After the Dalai Lama finished his stay in Gaden and the dust settled, Gaden Jangtze monks had a meeting and regretted the expulsion of this great lama and master. Many in Jangtze have received teachings from him. But what is done is done. Regrets and broken samaya is the lot of the day for them who commit actions for political ends. They expelled one of their great teachers just to look clean and Shugden free. But what they ended up on the table with is much worse-broken samaya.
TK
It is not so much the 8 worldly concerns that motivated the monks to expel Gyurme Kensur. It was total fear. Fear of the Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama would not say expel this person or that person these days as he has been highly criticized for that in the past. So he will drop hints. If the hints are not taken he will not be pleased with Gaden Jangtze. One word that he is displeased with Gaden Jangtze or any Gelug Monastery would bring heaps of trouble and bad reputation for them. So when he mentioned Gyurme Kensur doesn't come to see him anymore or attend his teachings, the inference is Gyurme Kensur MUST HAVE DEFECTED TO THE SHUGDEN CAMP. So therefore he doesn't attend the Dalai Lama's events. From this hint and this hint alone, the Abbot of Gaden Jangtze went into a tailspin and expelled Gyurme Kensur. Sadness, politics, fear, undemocratic policies and religious persecution rules the Gelug Monasteries these days.
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With so much persecution and suppression still going on in Gaden Monastery, it is inevitable these highly attained lamas like Denma Locho Rinpoche, Gyume Kensur Rinpoche and Ven Choden Rinpoche will join forces with Shar Gaden ot Serpom Monastery one day.
It is only a great loss of Gaden Monastery of all these senior and knowledgable high lamas who are expelled as they can give so many dharma teachings and empowerments to the young monks.
On another note, while Gaden Monastery is stupidly chasing these high lamas out, and when these high lamas who have strong faith in Dorje Shugden and who have never utter a word to condemn Dalai lama, join Shar Gaden or Serpom Monasteries, they will reinforce to the rest of the world that Shugden practice is not wrong.
Dorje Shugden practice will remain strong and steadfast with the shinning examples of these lamas and tulkus.
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One monastery's great loss is another monastery's great gain.
While the loss will bear heavy karma as nothing is worse than broken samaya and it will carry forth a fate worse than death...they will be denied of precious teachings and practices that will benefit them not in this life but also their future lives. So, it is really a horrible position to be trapped in. How does one get out, when even regret will not be sufficient?
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It is not so much the 8 worldly concerns that motivated the monks to expel Gyurme Kensur. It was total fear. Fear of the Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama would not say expel this person or that person these days as he has been highly criticized for that in the past. So he will drop hints. If the hints are not taken he will not be pleased with Gaden Jangtze. One word that he is displeased with Gaden Jangtze or any Gelug Monastery would bring heaps of trouble and bad reputation for them. So when he mentioned Gyurme Kensur doesn't come to see him anymore or attend his teachings, the inference is Gyurme Kensur MUST HAVE DEFECTED TO THE SHUGDEN CAMP. So therefore he doesn't attend the Dalai Lama's events. From this hint and this hint alone, the Abbot of Gaden Jangtze went into a tailspin and expelled Gyurme Kensur. Sadness, politics, fear, undemocratic policies and religious persecution rules the Gelug Monasteries these days.
I can't even imagine what it's like in the monasteries. Living in fear - just because I wish to continue a Dharma Protector practice which was given to me by my Guru and which out of Guru Devotion, I would never give up.
The TGIE talk about democracy but this expulsion of the Gyurme Kensur which is based on zero evidence, except for a passing word from His Holiness, is far from democratic! Truly frightening but very real.
I agree with what Triesa said about the High Lamas of Gaden moving to Dorje Shugden monasteries. When Shar Gaden and Ser Pom monasteries flourish as they already are, and with great masters in these monasteries, such as HH Trijang Rinpoche, and HH Gaden Trisur, HE Zemey Rinpoche, Dorje Shugden practice will become stronger and prevail over the petty politics. It is possible that these Shugden monasteries will become mainstream in the end. Everything is impermanent after all.
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It is very disheartening to hear or read news about how old elite lamas are treated in the Tibetan Buddhism world. When I first read this, I was upset and was thinking how ungrateful the students are towards their guru who has taught them dharma.
However, we are not talking about ordinary beings here. These old elite lamas are definitely NOT ORDINARY and this applies to HH also. The more I think about it is the more I think HH is very skillful. In reference to the Gyume Kensur Rinpoche of Jangtze incident, definitely HH who is Cherenzig, foresee what the Abbot of Gaden Jangtze will do when HH mentioned that sentence. I would like to believe that it is HH skillful way of getting the great masters out to enable them to have the "freedom" to teach and spread DS far and wide. After all, these great masters have high respect of HH.
I'm looking forward to news on these old elite lamas joining Shar Gaden or Serpom monastery.
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It is very disheartening to hear or read news about how old elite lamas are treated in the Tibetan Buddhism world. When I first read this, I was upset and was thinking how ungrateful the students are towards their guru who has taught them dharma.
However, we are not talking about ordinary beings here. These old elite lamas are definitely NOT ORDINARY and this applies to HH also. The more I think about it is the more I think HH is very skillful. In reference to the Gyume Kensur Rinpoche of Jangtze incident, definitely HH who is Cherenzig, foresee what the Abbot of Gaden Jangtze will do when HH mentioned that sentence. I would like to believe that it is HH skillful way of getting the great masters out to enable them to have the "freedom" to teach and spread DS far and wide. After all, these great masters have high respect of HH.
I'm looking forward to news on these old elite lamas joining Shar Gaden or Serpom monastery.
Shugden promotor, I like what you worte regarding HHDL skillfully getting these high lamas out to join Shar Gaden or other Shugden monasteries whereby they can have the freedom to practise and teach without any hinderance.
Yes, and you are also right with the fact that these high lamas all have great respect of HHDL, in fact, I have never read or heard of any of them making any bad statements or comments against HHDL.
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Only in TGIE world that this kind injustice can be exercised with full of justification.
I guess it is really time for the TGIE to turn a new chapter, a new leaf and usher in New Members with broader minds. No disrespect but you wld think that this sort of action will obviously create a negative light on His Holiness. Bad PR folks...but I suppose it is not too worrying since His Holiness is stepping down from political issues. So next question is... what is next? Thought I am not wishing and definitely not looking forward to it but what happens after his passing...the inevitable...?
It is on one side a good hope for Dorje Shugden practitioners to come out and on the others side sad news as TGIE would have lost their cash cow...sorry to say. So if I was them, I will seriously create as much good PR before they are very quickly forgotten.
Amazing that this kind of thing still exist in the 21st century! Who would ever hear such a news in their country now... it wld really be against people's rights and wld cause great civil wars and disharmony. No one, not even our parents have the right to tell us what we should pray and belief after age18. It is unheard of in our society.
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High Lamas and Great Masters have suffered and still suffering in order to preserve the teachings and worship of Dorje Shugden, so that lay practitioners will benefit from worshipping this Great Protector.
In appreciation we learn of their suffering and that their suffering to benefit us will enhance our faith in DS.
Let us respect and reverend and be devoted to these great Lamas and Masters. In appreciation read and learn about some of them in this article.