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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: LosangKhyentse on December 29, 2010, 05:46:46 PM
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Prime Minister Samdhong is Encouraging Violence Against Shugden Practitioners
By goldenmala
Prime Minister Samdhong
This is the news release of Tibetan service of Radio Free Asia of December 24, 2010.
On December 24, 2010, the Prime Minister of Tibetan Government-in-Exile had a public meeting in Delhi attended by some Tibetan Parliament members,… representatives of each province of Tibet, local Tibetans living in Delhi including a representative of Dalai Lama’s office in Delhi.
“Inside and outside of Tibet Shugden followers are opponents of his Holiness Dalai Lama. They are trying to divide Tibetan community and make it against Dalai Lama, so, for example, here, in exile in India, we almost completely won and demolished Shugden followers who used to be very strong in Delhi, but not any more because we, Tibetan people, acted bravely and without hesitation against Shugden followers. But some of the roots are still left, and the Shugden followers on the way stop by in Delhi and carry out some activities. Now, without fear and hesitation, we, Tibetans, must fight and destroy Shugden followers. I am urging you to act against hesitation and fear, but of course, I will not blame you if you fear – they will fight back fearlessly and may beat some of us or kill, but if you fear and do nothing that means Shugden followers are winning. Even though you may die or face beating you must fight – it I very important”.
source:
http://shugdensociety.wordpress.com/2010/12/26/prime-minister-samdhong-is-encouraging-violence-against-shugden-practitioners/
and the original Tibetan version on Radio Free Asia is at this link:
http://www.rfa.org/tibetan/otherprograms/stringer/kalon-tripa-visits-delhi-samyeling-12242010113329.html
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This is indeed scary and worrying announcement encouraging fight. Sounds like a battle is being conjure and do feel sad that again spirituality has become so degenerated and mixed up with political issues. It's shameful to see and hear this especially coming from a religion that has been so well known in preaching compassion and religious harmony and tolerance.
What exactly are they intending to create and do? What would be the TGIE or Tibetans reputation will be from such a statement of action. One thing for sure is that it will not be a good one. It sounds like one of Trijang Rinpoche's predictions coming true again...
“Even these days, some suspect those who rely upon and propitiate Gyalchen (Dorje Shugden) of conjuring ghosts, but it is the babbling talk of those who don’t understand the definitive meaning.”
- Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang Losang Yeshe, Symphony Delighting an Ocean of Conquerers, 1967
I truly hope what ever the Tibetan Govt is doing or intend to create will not create more suffering and dig their own grave bigger. A good reputation can be easily tarnished in just one single, stupid, harmful action forever.
Perhaps they do not intend to continue their legacy of compassion???
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I am initially shocked but recalling the TGIE's history, I am not because they have often played with human emotions of the vast majority of Tibetans who aren't educated and know very little Dharma. Hence, they will rally people based on mere words and mere emotionality of such speeches. I hope more and more Tibetans get exposed to foreign cultures, better education and also 'relearning the Dharma' for its essence and not mere blind faith in the Dalai Lama.
If the TGIE is really watching this forum, I would like say, "You guys are responsible for how the world view the Dalai Lama and the outcome and survival of your nation in exile. In my opinion, fighting and rallying your people to fight amongst yourselves makes Tibetan independence an even more distant dream. You guys should work towards fortifying your government in the event the Dalai Lama is not around anymore (I don't wish this but I am merely stating the inevitable). He may be Chenrezig but his body is mortal and our negative karma is overpowering. So you guys should prepare to lead and make provisions for the future. Don't be short-sighted now."
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What exactly are they intending to create and do? What would be the TGIE or Tibetans reputation will be from such a statement of action.
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I truly hope what ever the Tibetan Govt is doing or intend to create will not create more suffering and dig their own grave bigger. A good reputation can be easily tarnished in just one single, stupid, harmful action forever.
A good point. What democratic, advanced government would make such a politically incorrect move? making statements like this only makes them look very backward and village-like. Unfortunately, they don't even realise what a joke they are making of themselves by saying things like this.
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What exactly are they intending to create and do? What would be the TGIE or Tibetans reputation will be from such a statement of action.
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I truly hope what ever the Tibetan Govt is doing or intend to create will not create more suffering and dig their own grave bigger. A good reputation can be easily tarnished in just one single, stupid, harmful action forever.
A good point. What democratic, advanced government would make such a politically incorrect move? making statements like this only makes them look very backward and village-like. Unfortunately, they don't even realise what a joke they are making of themselves by saying things like this.
I agree with begger, the statement made by the TGIE make them sound like a barbaric government. The encouragement for Tibetans to fight againist other Tibetans who are Shugden practitioners and manipulating their emotions are definitely harming the credibility and reputation of TGIE.
Breeding hatred among fellow Tibetans is definitely not a Buddha's teaching.
I sincerely hope the TGIE will stop in making these types of statements again.
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Prime Minister Samdhong is Encouraging Violence Against Shugden Practitioners
“Inside and outside of Tibet Shugden followers are opponents of his Holiness Dalai Lama. They are trying to divide Tibetan community and make it against Dalai Lama, so, for example, here, in exile in India, we almost completely won and demolished Shugden followers who used to be very strong in Delhi, but not any more because we, Tibetan people, acted bravely and without hesitation against Shugden followers. But some of the roots are still left, and the Shugden followers on the way stop by in Delhi and carry out some activities. Now, without fear and hesitation, we, Tibetans, must fight and destroy Shugden followers. I am urging you to act against hesitation and fear, but of course, I will not blame you if you fear – they will fight back fearlessly and may beat some of us or kill, but if you fear and do nothing that means Shugden followers are winning. Even though you may die or face beating you must fight – it I very important”.
Never in history has Buddha taught us to fight or create violence. Buddhists are taught to practice compassion and tolerance. So this piece of news is just so sad and scary as spirituality has degenerated so much!
I hope that TGIE will stop issuing this type of statements and to deceive and play on the emotions of the ignorant peasant minded Tibetans
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The Beijing Olympic is over, the Tibetan government lost their chance of getting the world attention to support them to claim back Tibet forever, people are feeling down and frustrated, what to do?
Direct the attention outward of course, blame it on....AAA, BBB, CCC...(how about Shugden?) Oh yes, that's a good choice, blame it on Shugden then.
A typical lame tactic by a lame government deceiving the ignorant people.
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The Beijing Olympic is over, the Tibetan government lost their chance of getting the world attention to support them to claim back Tibet forever, people are feeling down and frustrated, what to do?
Direct the attention outward of course, blame it on....AAA, BBB, CCC...(how about Shugden?) Oh yes, that's a good choice, blame it on Shugden then.
A typical lame tactic by a lame government deceiving the ignorant people.
There are many things to cover up and which they need a scapegoat for, the largest being that the state oracle, Nechung, had predicted that Tibet would get its country back by 2000. That never happened, so the attention was then turned (conveniently? by Nechung?) to Dorje Shugden as the main obstacle to achieving this independence.
The Dalai Lama has also been contradictory and confusing in what he has said on the topic of tibetan independence, changing his stance from independence to autonomy? (or perhaps it was always autonomy all along, and there was actually no fight for independence?).
not very clever either, for a government to blame an entirely political, secular matter on "a demon" - they make themselves look so backward and superstitious, don't they realise?
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interestingly enough, i was reading through previous posts on the forum and came across this by TK
(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=567.msg3946#msg3946)
To add to what you say, it is believed that the Prime Minister of Tibet, Professor Samdhong Rinpoche is an emanation of Dorje Shugden.
Who revealed that years ago, HH Trijang Rinpoche mentioned that clearly.
It is interesting because if Samdhong IS Dorje Shugden, then why would he be campaigning against his own practitioners... something to contemplate...
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interestingly enough, i was reading through previous posts on the forum and came across this by TK
([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=567.msg3946#msg3946[/url])
To add to what you say, it is believed that the Prime Minister of Tibet, Professor Samdhong Rinpoche is an emanation of Dorje Shugden.
Who revealed that years ago, HH Trijang Rinpoche mentioned that clearly.
It is interesting because if Samdhong IS Dorje Shugden, then why would he be campaigning against his own practitioners... something to contemplate...
Thank you Wisdom Being. I never knew that. I always thought that he was the incarnation of Desi Sangye Gyatso. Desi is the regent of the 5th Dalai Lama, who built the Potala Palace, performed the funerary rites after the passing of the 5th Dalai Lama and then recognised and installed the 6th Dalai Lama. However, that could still mean that he is an incarnation of Dorje Shugden.
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interestingly enough, i was reading through previous posts on the forum and came across this by TK
([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=567.msg3946#msg3946[/url])
To add to what you say, it is believed that the Prime Minister of Tibet, Professor Samdhong Rinpoche is an emanation of Dorje Shugden.
Who revealed that years ago, HH Trijang Rinpoche mentioned that clearly.
It is interesting because if Samdhong IS Dorje Shugden, then why would he be campaigning against his own practitioners... something to contemplate...
Wow, if Samdhong Rinpoche is an emanation of Dorje Shugden, I wonder what will unfold later.
I can't get all these into a logical arguements, except that some heavy purifications are much needed for Dorje Shugden's practice to spread more widely to benefit more people. In the meantime, I just hold my breath and wait patiently.............
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interestingly enough, i was reading through previous posts on the forum and came across this by TK
([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=567.msg3946#msg3946[/url])
To add to what you say, it is believed that the Prime Minister of Tibet, Professor Samdhong Rinpoche is an emanation of Dorje Shugden.
Who revealed that years ago, HH Trijang Rinpoche mentioned that clearly.
It is interesting because if Samdhong IS Dorje Shugden, then why would he be campaigning against his own practitioners... something to contemplate...
Even bad publicity is good publicity? :D :D :D :D :D
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interestingly enough, i was reading through previous posts on the forum and came across this by TK
([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=567.msg3946#msg3946[/url])
To add to what you say, it is believed that the Prime Minister of Tibet, Professor Samdhong Rinpoche is an emanation of Dorje Shugden.
Who revealed that years ago, HH Trijang Rinpoche mentioned that clearly.
It is interesting because if Samdhong IS Dorje Shugden, then why would he be campaigning against his own practitioners... something to contemplate...
Even bad publicity is good publicity? :D :D :D :D :D
Interesting now this is said Trinley Kelsang said something about there have been mutterings in Dharmsala that Samdong is a Dorje shugden practitoner...Hmmm
This senario is almost like an episode out of Dynasty. ;D
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Hi Zach
I mentioned this to a friend who has friends in the Gelugpa community and he said that he had also heard that Samdhong is an emanation of Shugden. Of course all this is hearsay but interesting nevertheless.
I also read this - that Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen would incarnate everywhere....
"Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen himself wrote poetic verses mentioning that in future he will incarnate everywhere, not only in Tibet (stated in the introduction to the be.bum). A more recent scholar, one of this century, Kachen Sopala from Tashi Lhunpo Monastery, claims that Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen reincarnated in the incarnation line of Ngari Tulkus. The present Ngari Rinpoche is the brother of the Fourteenth Dalai Lama." (http://www.shugdensociety.info/Bernis2EN.html)
If Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen has incarnated as a direct relative of HH Dalai Lama, how come the Dalai Lama hasn't thrown him into prison or worse?
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Every Enlightened Being works in his or her own mysterious ways to bring about the most benefit.
That is the most amazing part.
Let's not get caught up and carried away with the illusory plays but play a concrete beneficial role in every situation that reflects our Guru's teachings well.
Those are the real results that last through time and future lives.
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Hi Zach
I mentioned this to a friend who has friends in the Gelugpa community and he said that he had also heard that Samdhong is an emanation of Shugden. Of course all this is hearsay but interesting nevertheless.
I also read this - that Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen would incarnate everywhere....
"Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen himself wrote poetic verses mentioning that in future he will incarnate everywhere, not only in Tibet (stated in the introduction to the be.bum). A more recent scholar, one of this century, Kachen Sopala from Tashi Lhunpo Monastery, claims that Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen reincarnated in the incarnation line of Ngari Tulkus. The present Ngari Rinpoche is the brother of the Fourteenth Dalai Lama." ([url]http://www.shugdensociety.info/Bernis2EN.html[/url])
If Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen has incarnated as a direct relative of HH Dalai Lama, how come the Dalai Lama hasn't thrown him into prison or worse?
Its certainly all Interesting.
Perhapes there is something going on behind the scenes...
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It is a understood fact Samdhong Rinpoche is an emanation of Dorje Shugden. The senior high Dorje Shugden lamas all know this even before Tibet 1959. Samdhong Rinpoche and his household (labrang) would take three days to prepare for a one day Dorje Shugden puja monthly. The amount of care and effort put into a Dorje Shugden puja monthly in Samdhong Labrang (Tibet) was very well known and famous.
Samdhong Rinpoche as the prime minister pushed Shugden to the forefront even more so.
The big picture is definitely in play and as Trijang Rinpoche already predicted.
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I found the following article online but i am not sure if the date is the date of the broadcast or date of the posting of the article. If anyone knows more information on this, please post here.
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 2011
(Translated text of Tibetan transcript of broadcasts in Voice of Tibet Radio)
Reporter: Kalon Tripa showered praise, for there are no more religious and material interaction with Dholgyal (Shugden) followers. Kashag (Cabinet) acknowledged it as a significant initiative. Rinpoche also said that this initiative must be maintained even in the future.
Samdhong Rinpoche: These great seats have absolutely no connection with evil Dholgyal. You have created opportunity for His Holiness to give teaching delightfully, If His Holiness gives teachings. The Cabinet I lead acknowledges it as noble result and significant initiative. Even in the future, for the benefit of Buddha Dharma and for the welfare of Tibetan people, it is massive responsibility not to mix worldly deity and Dharma deity. We have faith and hope that the status quo must be maintained continuously.
Reporter: Similarly, [Samdhong] has given explanation that Dholgyal followers enjoy rights on a par with other Tibetans.
Samdhong: Those followers, who went separately, being not able to forsake evil Dholgyal, were separated from teachings and so forth from His Holiness in the great seat. Apart from this, Tibetan exile community didn't segregate them. It is different matter if one separated on his way. Therefore, Departments of Religion, Education and Home Affairs grant the rights enshrined for Tibetans. If [they] don’t know, we cannot force them. If they know, we provide what they know.
Reporter: At the end of his commentary on Root Wisdom of Madhiyamika, His Holiness the Dalai Lama introduced the brief account of Dholgyal. We were also told that since the commitment of Guru and disciple is significant, those who have connection with Dholgyal worship are not welcomed for Yamantaka Empowerment which would be given at Gaden Shartse Monastery on the 5th of this month.
Dalai Lama: If there is Dholgyal devotee, don’t come to Empowerment. I have already said in Varanasi recently. I always say in abroad. So I thought to say again. Those who have little faith in Dholgyal in deep mind, although not worship him for external appearance, are not welcomed. I don't have thousand of eyes and hands. I have many acquaintances. Be it in Tibet or abroad – many send me messages. Although I have no thousand hands and eyes, I can say that I have thousand ears. Therefore I sometimes hear various news. I hear that some, for external appearance, acted looking fine in front of me, but not as it is behind. One must think since ones mind is not obscure to oneself. As the Dalai Lama imposed ban on Dholgyal worship, if you have in your mind a thought that [he] is a supreme deity - Dharma protector of Tsongkhapa teaching, but pretend otherwise, don’t come to Yamantaka Empowerment. Do you understand? Lamas and abbots who travel abroad and who stay here- there are some doubts on the way they contact in Tibet. It is freedom of speech if you come out and protest. It is right thing. In his speech Samdhong Rinpoche thanked for both supporter and opponent. This is true. We walk on democratic path. It is right if one refute the wrong. It is one's freedom. It is lie and two faced if one show different expressions in front and behind. If there are one who is not able to forsake by mind, don’t come to Yamantaka empowerment on fifth. If [you] come, may spiritual commitment deteriorate!
Source: http://buddhadorjeeshugdensfact.blogspot.com/
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You know I was just thinking that this seperation is a very good thing. In reality it will make Dorje shugden practitoners Self-reliant and more able to preserve the lineage while the mainstream Gelugpa will eventually be swallowed by the Rime movement the way things are heading :-\
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Seeing as Shar Gaden and Serpom are already established and running smoothly, the Dorje Shugden practitioners could very well become another tradition. Tibetan Buddhism does seem to evolve over time - with Tsongkhapa distilling the essence six hundred years ago, who's to say it doesn't evolve again to suit the current times? Interesting.
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Seeing as Shar Gaden and Serpom are already established and running smoothly, the Dorje Shugden practitioners could very well become another tradition. Tibetan Buddhism does seem to evolve over time - with Tsongkhapa distilling the essence six hundred years ago, who's to say it doesn't evolve again to suit the current times? Interesting.
A new buddhist tradition induced by the great protector Dorje Shugden and validated by this extraordinary lineage that is the Gelugpa lineage. A new tradition that transcends (tibetan) politics and becomes an exponantial worldwide affair.
Sounds real neat to me, and it brings a wide smile to my face!
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It is a understood fact Samdhong Rinpoche is an emanation of Dorje Shugden. The senior high Dorje Shugden lamas all know this even before Tibet 1959.
I also read this - that Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen would incarnate everywhere....
"Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen himself wrote poetic verses mentioning that in future he will incarnate everywhere, not only in Tibet (stated in the introduction to the be.bum). A more recent scholar, one of this century, Kachen Sopala from Tashi Lhunpo Monastery, claims that Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen reincarnated in the incarnation line of Ngari Tulkus. The present Ngari Rinpoche is the brother of the Fourteenth Dalai Lama." ([url]http://www.shugdensociety.info/Bernis2EN.html[/url])
If Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen has incarnated as a direct relative of HH Dalai Lama, how come the Dalai Lama hasn't thrown him into prison or worse?
There are many things to cover up and which they need a scapegoat for, the largest being that the state oracle, Nechung, had predicted that Tibet would get its country back by 2000. That never happened, so the attention was then turned (conveniently? by Nechung?) to Dorje Shugden as the main obstacle to achieving this independence.
This is a lot to digest in: Samdhong Rinpoche is believed to be an emanation of Dorje Shugden (he was the Prime Minister in the TGIE)...HHDL's brother is Ngari Rinpoche (he is in the line of incarnated tulkus that Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen reincarnated in)...and the same state oracle/spirit (Nechung), who asked Duldzin to swear to become a protector of Tsongkhapa's teachings, then turned the heat onto DS from Nechung's own failure in keeping the promise as to give Tibet back to it's people.
Can someone explain this!?? This is all happening under HHDL's nose! His own PM is an emanation of DS, someone who's blood related is an incarnation of TDG...I even saw in a video once that it was DS who helped HHDL escape from Tibet during the Chinese invasion!
It seems to reconfirm my belief that there's a "bigger picture" (as those on this forum call it) behind the DS ban. Why? It can't be that there are that many contradictions in Dharma (and on this global scale) and there be no bigger and better meaning to it.
I don't believe that HHDL, Chenrezig himself, having such strong and close connections with Dorje Shugden (especially with his own guru, Trijang Rinpoche and his guru Pabongkha Rinpoche being strong practitioners), see any fault with the protector practice. There's no way that he's banning DS practice simply on a whim or from Nechung's advice. This forum is engaging in a discussion that is so deep and complicated. Takes me a while to piece things together.
Always remind myself: Keep an open mind!
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So there's possibilities that :
1) Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen reincarnated in the incarnation line of Ngari Tulkus, who Ngari Rinpoche so happened to the brother of the 14th Dalai Lama.
2) Ruling along side 14th Dalai Lama, the Prime Minister of TGIE, Samdhong IS Dorje Shugden.
And TGIE is stirring problems to split the Tibetan people by what they practice or not...? What an irony! Seems to me Dorje Shugden is in the very centre of action.. :)
Well, what we have on hand for sure are...
1) Where is Tibet? There's no Tibet right now...
2) Who will be the 14th Dalai Lama's successor? If there will be one, it's going to be tough. The Indian government doesn't seem to give a flip about TGIE even now that the Dalai Lama is still alive. How long will TGIE still have a place on the Indian soil to operate TGIE?
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Tibet is a political issue, a cultural issue, as well as an issue of a people being forcefully culturally assimilated, an issue of freedom of speech, an issue for a country to be free to decide for itself, and there is more to say.
I have empathy for the tibetan people.
The spread of Dharma however is a spiritual issue, and I am sorry to say it is bigger than Tibet, it is bigger than this world, it is bigger than this universe!
In the current situation, with a lost country, with the loss of a "political" platform for spreading Dharma... how?
How to turn a problem into an opportunity?
If Tibet is lost, how not to loose Dharma as taught by the tibetan masters?
Can the loss of Tibet become a platform for spreading Dharma? Yes it can, it has already been realized!
Now what about the future? What will happen of the Dharma, of the teachings of tibetan masters after the passing of the Dalai Lama and the attention buddhism go through his actions? Will the wave of interest for it as experienced in that last 30 years continue? Will it decrease?
It looks to me as if the good work of Dorje Shugden is shaping avenues for the practitioners of tomorrow, so that Dharma remains and increases!
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Great nations rise and fall, governments are formed and dissolved,...but the Buddhas out of compassion have remained and incarnate in this realm with the sole purpose to liberate us. As conflicting and confusing it all seems to be, I believe that the Dharma King, Lord Dorje Shugden will lead us thru it all.
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Great nations rise and fall, governments are formed and dissolved,...but the Buddhas out of compassion have remained and incarnate in this realm with the sole purpose to liberate us. As conflicting and confusing it all seems to be, I believe that the Dharma King, Lord Dorje Shugden will lead us thru it all.
Forget the Dalai Lama bigger picture hypothesis - the even bigger picture is that one of the reasons why Tibet was taken over was so that Tibetan Buddhism would leave Tibet and go all over the world. If China had not claimed Tibet, the Dalai Lama would have stayed in Tibet and not gone to the West and created so much awareness about Buddhism. The high Lamas would not be all over the world - in so many different countries now, ranging from Europe to Americas to Taiwan to India to Australia etc. Yes of course Tibetans suffered/are suffering under the change of regime - they have lost their country and there must have been karma arising from that. But there is some positivity about that - and I think that if we manage to see the positivity in every situation, then there is hope...
And yes, to add to what DSfriend said - I'm sure that Dorje Shugden will help Tsongkhapa's teachings to spread everywhere so that more people will have access to them...
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Great nations rise and fall, governments are formed and dissolved,...but the Buddhas out of compassion have remained and incarnate in this realm with the sole purpose to liberate us. As conflicting and confusing it all seems to be, I believe that the Dharma King, Lord Dorje Shugden will lead us thru it all.
Forget the Dalai Lama bigger picture hypothesis - the even bigger picture is that one of the reasons why Tibet was taken over was so that Tibetan Buddhism would leave Tibet and go all over the world. If China had not claimed Tibet, the Dalai Lama would have stayed in Tibet and not gone to the West and created so much awareness about Buddhism. The high Lamas would not be all over the world - in so many different countries now, ranging from Europe to Americas to Taiwan to India to Australia etc. Yes of course Tibetans suffered/are suffering under the change of regime - they have lost their country and there must have been karma arising from that. But there is some positivity about that - and I think that if we manage to see the positivity in every situation, then there is hope...
And yes, to add to what DSfriend said - I'm sure that Dorje Shugden will help Tsongkhapa's teachings to spread everywhere so that more people will have access to them...
Well said! So the great Dharma Protectors that were propitiated in Tibet for centuries are still protecting... They didn't take a break. They were protecting the Dharma and not Tibet. It was the collective merit of the world that Buddhism is spreading everywhere. But how well, it is practice is the merit of the our times...