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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Atishas cook on December 15, 2010, 04:03:50 PM

Title: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: Atishas cook on December 15, 2010, 04:03:50 PM
hi everyone -

a friend asked me earlier today: "How many people rely on Duldzin Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?"  i said that i had heard that there are millions of practitioners; he asked me where they all are. the more he asked the less certain i was!

i looked around for figures, even estimates, but never found any info. more substantial than "millions".  does anyone have any more information, or know where i can find some?  we hear about the practice spreading, despite the ban, but it'd be nice to have some more detailed estimate of the numbers involved.

just how many people are there in the world today relying on Dharmapala Gyalchen Dorje Shugden?

with love,
AC x
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: beggar on December 15, 2010, 05:53:55 PM
Yes, this would be interesting to find out.

I think one way to start might be perhaps to locate monasteries, temples, centers that are known to practice Dorje Shugden and see if we can find out how many members / sangha there are. Even if we can't get exact numbers of members, I think it would also be good to know how many DS centers there are in different countries around the world. You could also track growth in that way.

There's a section on this website about monasteries or Dharma centers that practice Dorje Shugden. It would be very nice if readers, browsers, forum participants can also submit information , write-ups, photos of others DS centers from around the world. That way, people from around the world who log in can also check out if there's a center near their area and may be inspired to join and start their practice!
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: Mohani on December 15, 2010, 06:55:56 PM
Hi AC,
I don't think there are currently millions of practitioner. In the past I think many tibetans used to rely on Duldzin, they where very loyal to Trijang. If I am correct there are or where 6 million tibetans, so I think it is fair to guess there were over a million followers of Duldzin. There are still some in tibet and Mongolia who have faith in Duldzin.
I think the statement made on the wss book about liberating millions of Dorje Shugden followers must refer to practitioners to come and the ones who have been affected in Tibet. There cant bee more than say 20,000 in the non Tibetan world. This is all guess work, sorry.. This is a question I have been pondering the last couple of days.
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: Atishas cook on December 15, 2010, 09:48:10 PM
yes, this is what i've been thinking about.  of course, there are the monasteries, but really that can't be more than a few thousands, or - maybe - tens of thousands?

then there are the Tibetans living inside and outside Tibet - and if there are a large proportion still practising in secret then maybe several tens - or hundreds - of thousands?  then, there are the various new non-Tibetan Sanghas in the East and the West - again, a few thousands - maybe tens of thousands?

so i was thinking: just how many Dorje Shugden practitioners are there in Mongolia? China? Russia? India? elsewhere? could there really be, right now, millions? :-)

it'd be great to have even an estimate, but i just don't have enough info.  how wonderful it would be if we could say with confidence that around x-hundred thousand, or x million, people worldwide rely on our Protector!
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: TA on December 16, 2010, 03:47:14 AM
There are  thousands of tibetans still worshipping inside and outside of tibet and I represent one of them.
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: LosangKhyentse on December 16, 2010, 05:18:22 AM
There are  thousands of tibetans still worshipping inside and outside of tibet and I represent one of them.


That is truly wonderful to hear. Please speak up more.

tk
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: Lineageholder on December 16, 2010, 08:34:42 AM
There are  thousands of tibetans still worshipping inside and outside of tibet and I represent one of them.

I rejoice!  May your numbers grow.  Please tell us more.
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: thaimonk on December 16, 2010, 11:14:57 PM
There are  thousands of tibetans still worshipping inside and outside of tibet and I represent one of them.

Speak up more please. Get involved here. Work with the rest of us here please. Encourage others to do so also please. Welcome!!
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: TA on December 17, 2010, 12:54:02 AM
Our sincere gratitude to every one of you. Although we(tibetans) may not actively take part in the forum, we are frequent  visitors here who religiously follow every topics that is being posted. We truly appreciated all the love and support.
OM VAJRA WIKI VITRANA SOHA

 Truth shall triumph.
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: Atishas cook on December 17, 2010, 01:13:32 AM
thank you, TA.

i deeply apologise if my strong words are ever offensive to those with faith in the Dalai Lama. 

i find it necessary to be strongly critical, and i feel it necessary to continue.  it very much saddens me that there are many faithful people who will find my words painful.  these strong words are motivated by love, however, and the desire to protect our holy lineages and practice.

i am, after all, an object for everyone's patience...
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: Helena on December 17, 2010, 01:22:07 AM
Our sincere gratitude to every one of you. Although we(tibetans) may not actively take part in the forum, we are frequent  visitors here who religiously follow every topics that is being posted. We truly appreciated all the love and support.
OM VAJRA WIKI VITRANA SOHA

 Truth shall triumph.

Welcome, TA and thank you for sharing your thoughts/feelings.

Truth shall indeed triumph!
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: WisdomBeing on December 17, 2010, 05:23:25 AM
Excellent topic for discussion!

I guess the minimum number would be the monks in the Shugden monasteries as mentioned by Beggar, plus all the NKT - does anyone know what is the total number of members of NKT? I tried to browse around but didn't find any numbers. According to their website, they have 1100 centres, so if there are an average of 100 members per centre, that would be 110,000? HE Gangchen Rinpoche has 100 Inner Peace Education centres or Self-Healing Study Groups worldwide but I don't know the numbers involved there either. Does anyone have more information?

Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: DharmaDefender on December 17, 2010, 06:54:23 AM
Thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions...

That leaves us more than 6 billion human lives to touch :)

WB - that's not counting all the follows who aren't signed up to the centres, but still attend. Because I'm sure not everyone whom Gangchen Rinpoche passes the mantra on to necessarily become his students, but still recite the mantra anyway for protection, etc.
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: Atishas cook on December 17, 2010, 09:23:57 AM
hey WB -

i think in NKT's case it's 1100+ Centers & branches, meaning groups or classes.  so 100 students average is probably too much.  i'd estimate - and it's an estimate not based on any real data! - that NKT's total student numbers would be in the tens, rather than hundreds, of thousands.  i might well be wrong, though, but at least it's an estimate...

anybody else - TA? beggar?  WB?  etc., etc. - able to give an approximation, an estimate, of the size of their Sangha?
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: WisdomBeing on December 17, 2010, 02:10:50 PM
Think we'd have to rely on someone from NKT who might have a better idea... I have no clue...
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: Mahayana Disciple on December 17, 2010, 03:41:49 PM
Hi I'm new to this forum but I've been attending NKT Centres for a few years and AC's correct in saying that the 1100 centres and branches mentioned on NKT website includes some very small branch classes where maybe only 5 or 6 people attend each week.

However, there are 250 actual NKT Centres throughout the world (including Hotel Kadampas and International Retreat Centres) and each Centre will have at least 100 people in their wider community - some will have ALOT more than that but some might have less so if we go with that as a conservative 'minimum' estimate it's at least 25,000 NKT practitioners worldwide, in reality probably alot more.

I wouldn't know about any other groups though. I've heard there are quite alot of Swiss DS practitioners?
Great question, btw :)





Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: Atishas cook on December 17, 2010, 03:45:55 PM
 :D   no - i meant: could any of you guys give estimates for your own Sanghas/traditions/organisations?

my unofficial estimate for my tradition, the NKT (sorry it's so rough), is a few tens of thousands (meaning practitioners who rely on Dorje Shugden as part of their daily practice, as opposed to the numbers of folks who attend the occasional class but are yet to go for refuge formally) - perhaps somewhere around Mahayana Disciple's estimate above.

AC x
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: beggar on December 19, 2010, 06:37:39 PM
I wonder also how many people may have just an image of Dorje Shugden, or just recite his mantra occasionally alongside their other prayers, or just make offerings once in a while at a temple - would they be considered practitioners and be counted in as well? If so, then you might want to take into account quite a few million people in places like China as well, for example - i have heard that there is a presence of the great king there, but it is serious practice yet - just the occasional visit to the temple, offering incense and that kind of traditional thing (for now).
Title: Re: How many people rely on Great King Dorje Shugden, and where are they all?
Post by: pgdharma on December 20, 2010, 04:53:00 PM
It is really difficult to estimate how many people rely on the Great King Dorje Shugden, but I am proud to say that I am one of them who relies on Dorje Shugden and will never give up this practice!