dorjeshugden.com
General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: Damian.D on June 22, 2011, 08:41:57 PM
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Spare a thought for the Lama who comes back again and again to teach the same students with the same hangups again and again.
To sit day in day out listening to the same issues. Seeing through the pretenses and disguises of the many people who live in samsara. We are open books and the lama is reading us constantly. Just waiting for the day we turn a new leaf and write a direction in our lives. One that gives up on the poisons of this existence.
I am grateful that they are here for us. Students come and go, but eventually all roads will lead back to the source and solution.
May the Lamas of the world live long,
May the students grow in Dharma
May our results inspire others
Our Lama's don't live forever, seize the opportunity while you still can.
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What must it be like for the Lama?
This is interesting. I get tired of having to advise my younger colleagues of their faults at work but did not think how a Lama would be, having to advise so many of his students. Thinking of it now, the Lama has so much patience, love, kindness, compassion, resiliency, wisdom, never giving up and more. Yet with me, it is usually leaving these younger colleagues to their own device after I thought I had done my best for them. My resolve now is to start with my loved ones. And I will pray to Dorje Shugden for strength and wisdom.
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What must it be like for the Lama?
This is interesting. I get tired of having to advise my younger colleagues of their faults at work but did not think how a Lama would be, having to advise so many of his students. Thinking of it now, the Lama has so much patience, love, kindness, compassion, resiliency, wisdom, never giving up and more. Yet with me, it is usually leaving these younger colleagues to their own device after I thought I had done my best for them. My resolve now is to start with my loved ones. And I will pray to Dorje Shugden for strength and wisdom.
Yet in a secular working environment, very quickly one's limitation is identified and one is kept within these, for sake of efficiency.
In a Dharma environment, when one's limitation is identified he is being pushed beyond to improve, out of an IMMENSE care from the lama.
Much more difficult and demanding job than the job of a "boss" at work.
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Spare a thought for the Lama who comes back again and again to teach the same students with the same hangups again and again.
To sit day in day out listening to the same issues. Seeing through the pretenses and disguises of the many people who live in samsara. We are open books and the lama is reading us constantly. Just waiting for the day we turn a new leaf and write a direction in our lives. One that gives up on the poisons of this existence.
There is no one who cares about us more than our Lama in the right way. The right way meaning for the benefit of our current and future lives. It is no doubt that Lamas care for their students out of pure compassion to lead us into the correct path of real self liberation and eventually enlightenment.
If we think of it carefully there is really nothing in it for the Lama to do that. He could have easily pack his bag and go off somewhere or pass on and take another rebirth somewhere else that he does not have to deal with all these tiring pretenses and disguises but then, it would have defeated his purpose of taking rebirth in samsara in the first place. The Lama is here with us because he knows he is able to help us as he has transcended samsara. He may be in samsara but samsara is not in him. He would probably think, if he doesn't help us who else would?
So what must it be like for the Lama? I am sure it is never easy. He nevertheless endures all difficulties so that he can fulfill his previous lives aspiration to lead us out of our suffering.
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Spare a thought for the Lama who comes back again and again to teach the same students with the same hangups again and again.
To sit day in day out listening to the same issues. Seeing through the pretenses and disguises of the many people who live in samsara. We are open books and the lama is reading us constantly. Just waiting for the day we turn a new leaf and write a direction in our lives. One that gives up on the poisons of this existence.
I am grateful that they are here for us. Students come and go, but eventually all roads will lead back to the source and solution.
May the Lamas of the world live long,
May the students grow in Dharma
May our results inspire others
Our Lama's don't live forever, seize the opportunity while you still can.
What a good question! This evokes many other pertinent questions which fall like dominos...
Here I am complaining and being self absorbed with MY problems, MY worries, MY laziness, MY needs, MY wants, ME, ME, ME... If we just put on the brakes for one moment, ask ourselves this question and ponder on this! WOW. Blows one's mind doesn't it?
For me, MY problems just literally melt away (sure it comes creeping back after a spell but I try to curb it as much as I can) and i realise how insignificant I am in the grand scheme of things and that I do not want to living this self absorbed life thinking I am doing "so much" but in actual fact I am doing absolutely "zero" if I am lucky... probably negative if one were to check...
I like questions like this because it is brilliant grounding for our egos but having said all that, it only does help if one truly believes in one's Lama and have faith in our protector DS whom will help us overcome our minds if we surre
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DO EXCUSE PREVIOUS POST. THE END GOT CUT OFF!
Spare a thought for the Lama who comes back again and again to teach the same students with the same hangups again and again.
To sit day in day out listening to the same issues. Seeing through the pretenses and disguises of the many people who live in samsara. We are open books and the lama is reading us constantly. Just waiting for the day we turn a new leaf and write a direction in our lives. One that gives up on the poisons of this existence.
I am grateful that they are here for us. Students come and go, but eventually all roads will lead back to the source and solution.
May the Lamas of the world live long,
May the students grow in Dharma
May our results inspire others
Our Lama's don't live forever, seize the opportunity while you still can.
What a good question! This evokes many other pertinent questions which fall like dominos...
Here I am complaining and being self absorbed with MY problems, MY worries, MY laziness, MY needs, MY wants, ME, ME, ME... If we just put on the brakes for one moment, ask ourselves this question and ponder on this! WOW. Blows one's mind doesn't it?
For me, MY problems just literally melt away (sure it comes creeping back after a spell but I try to curb it as much as I can) and i realise how insignificant I am in the grand scheme of things and that I do not want to living this self absorbed life thinking I am doing "so much" but in actual fact I am doing absolutely "zero" if I am lucky... probably negative if one were to check...
I like questions like this because it is brilliant grounding for our egos but having said all that, it only does help if one truly believes in one's Lama and have faith in our protector DS whom will help us overcome our minds if we surrender to him. How privilege and blessed for those of us to have a Lama to guide us and DS to protect us!
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For me, MY problems just literally melt away (sure it comes creeping back after a spell but I try to curb it as much as I can) and i realise how insignificant I am in the grand scheme of things and that I do not want to living this self absorbed life thinking I am doing "so much" but in actual fact I am doing absolutely "zero" if I am lucky... probably negative if one were to check...
I like questions like this because it is brilliant grounding for our egos but having said all that, it only does help if one truly believes in one's Lama and have faith in our protector DS whom will help us overcome our minds if we surrender to him. How privilege and blessed for those of us to have a Lama to guide us and DS to protect us!
I totally agree with you Positive Change. Whatever "problems" we may have is really nothing when we think of what our Lama has to go through. If we think of his spiritual responsibilities towards the many hundreds or thousands of his students and other sentient beings, our problem immediately shrink to insignificance.
I think this is one way we can meditate whenever we get into a "poor me" self absorbed mode where we imagine that our miniscule problems are insurmountable. What's worse is that it is mostly self created and within our control to change if we kick our butt hard enough to get out of our comfort zone, attachments and hang ups. The question is whether we are prepare to go through the withdrawal symptoms of transforming. Like any other types of addictions, attachments and laziness takes effort to get out of and any attempt of it will entail pain.
This suddenly occurred to me when I spoke to a friend yesterday. Something we can all think about.
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Yes, ALL Lamas are here to teach us the dharma and imagine how much problems we created for them over and over again due to our ignorance, ego and attachments? They returned life after life just teach us more, and we are so stuck with our own views and habituation. The Lama has to use all different methods to get the teaching to us.. which actually takes up a lot of energy and don't forget even if they are enlightenment, they are in human form... just like us. Sometimes in order to teach us something, they have to manifest flaws and lower down to our standard... They are not superman, if they are they would have taught us how to fly. So we must not abuse the fact that just because they are highly attained, they must have the compassion of enduring our bad qualities. In fact, we are only creating a cause of our lama becoming more distant to us.
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Yes, ALL Lamas are here to teach us the dharma and imagine how much problems we created for them over and over again due to our ignorance, ego and attachments? They returned life after life just teach us more, and we are so stuck with our own views and habituation. The Lama has to use all different methods to get the teaching to us.. which actually takes up a lot of energy and don't forget even if they are enlightenment, they are in human form... just like us. Sometimes in order to teach us something, they have to manifest flaws and lower down to our standard... They are not superman, if they are they would have taught us how to fly. So we must not abuse the fact that just because they are highly attained, they must have the compassion of enduring our bad qualities. In fact, we are only creating a cause of our lama becoming more distant to us.
Dear Barzin,
I like and agree with what you said here.
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The closest example I can think of is our mother.
My Lama often reminds me of my mother - no matter how stubborn I was, how hopelessly forgetful, how much I took her for granted - tirelessly she would always be reminding me the things I was supposed to do, always understanding, always supportive.
For those who are mothers themselves can , perhaps, understand the hope, happiness, disappointment, frustrations, immense patience and love the Lama has for his students without the motherly attachment.
The Lama looks into every aspect of the students' well being- from material to emotional & spiritual which is much more than what mothers do.
The Lama is really our mother from life after life.
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The closest example I can think of is our mother.
My Lama often reminds me of my mother - no matter how stubborn I was, how hopelessly forgetful, how much I took her for granted - tirelessly she would always be reminding me the things I was supposed to do, always understanding, always supportive.
For those who are mothers themselves can , perhaps, understand the hope, happiness, disappointment, frustrations, immense patience and love the Lama has for his students without the motherly attachment.
The Lama looks into every aspect of the students' well being- from material to emotional & spiritual which is much more than what mothers do.
The Lama is really our mother from life after life.
I agree with you Kurava... what you have written above is very apt. And this is because our mothers also work out of/from compassion... even when "angry" they do it for our good or benefit. Of course there are exceptions to the rule (I cringe to think of it!) but on a whole a mother has that innate instinct to benefit her child.
On top of looking after our material, emotional and spiritual paths, the Lama also looks beyond the mere limitations of our current life as well. Through the Lama's skillful methods he will even steer us on a path that will ensure we do not create more negative karma for our future lives. This is also on top of helping us remove obstacles and purify our existing negative karma...
And all this multiplied by the hundreds if not thousands of
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The closest example I can think of is our mother.
My Lama often reminds me of my mother - no matter how stubborn I was, how hopelessly forgetful, how much I took her for granted - tirelessly she would always be reminding me the things I was supposed to do, always understanding, always supportive.
For those who are mothers themselves can , perhaps, understand the hope, happiness, disappointment, frustrations, immense patience and love the Lama has for his students without the motherly attachment.
The Lama looks into every aspect of the students' well being- from material to emotional & spiritual which is much more than what mothers do.
The Lama is really our mother from life after life.
I agree with you Kurava... what you have written above is very apt. And this is because our mothers also work out of/from compassion... even when "angry" they do it for our good or benefit. Of course there are exceptions to the rule (I cringe to think of it!) but on a whole a mother has that innate instinct to benefit her child.
On top of looking after our material, emotional and spiritual paths, the Lama also looks beyond the mere limitations of our current life as well. Through the Lama's skillful methods he will even steer us on a path that will ensure we do not create more negative karma for our future lives. This is also on top of helping us remove obstacles and purify our existing negative karma...
And all this multiplied by the hundreds if not thousands of students the Lama has PLUS ALL other sentient beings... Feeling pretty insignificant now huh! :P ;)
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What must it be like for the Lama?
This is interesting. I get tired of having to advise my younger colleagues of their faults at work but did not think how a Lama would be, having to advise so many of his students. Thinking of it now, the Lama has so much patience, love, kindness, compassion, resiliency, wisdom, never giving up and more. Yet with me, it is usually leaving these younger colleagues to their own device after I thought I had done my best for them. My resolve now is to start with my loved ones. And I will pray to Dorje Shugden for strength and wisdom.
You've brought up a key point about the qualities of the Lamas... the perfection of the six paramitas :
generosity, ethics, patience, enthusiastic perseverance, concentration and wisdom
May we develop these qualities to repay the kindness of our lamas.
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And this is because our mothers also work out of/from compassion... even when "angry" they do it for our good or benefit. Of course there are exceptions to the rule (I cringe to think of it!) but on a whole a mother has that innate instinct to benefit her child.
Dear PA,
I think there is no exceptions when it comes to mothers.
It may be a very demanding journey for someone who had to endure a "mean" mother to discover the infinite compassion she actually displayed while carrying her baby and everything else... But it is a necessary journey.
There is nobody who can be exempted from contemplating on the compassionate nature of his/her mother.
Nobody one can say to: "oh, it's ok, in your case your mother was essentially evil, no hope anyway, maybe mediate on the true compassion of your pet-dog instead".
If we love the whole universe of all sentient beings, ALL, but justify one exception, we have failed to develop compassion to the most important being of them all.
That's what I think.
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Yes, only a compassionate Lama, who is a Buddha, will return again and again to samsara to help and guide us towards total liberation from suffering and complete Buddhahood. There is no one else who cares for us and can care for us with such limitless compassion and using such infinitely skillful means.
To make direct connections with our totally deluded minds, the Lama (of infinite compassion) will choose to incarnate in a form and under conditions and circumstances of great suffering (that we, with our deluded minds, can relate to and understand); and , like a true Bodhisattva, he will take this suffering into his path of practice. Thus, by a path of suffering, does he come to us to help us overcome our suffering and the causes of our suffering.
My Lama sees my weaknesses and flaws more clearly than I (with my mind of delusions) can see them. He then uses his skillful means to help me work on them and overcome them. If my laziness kicks in and my mental afflictions rage and create havoc with me, until I cannot see the wood for the trees, he will still patiently endeavor in different ways to help me get past all my mental obstacles.
When he knows I need a tangible show of kindness (in case I loosen my grip of faith or trust in him), he quickly comes on the scene and displays his infinite kindness in ways that open up my heart and my mind in eternal gratitude and indebtedness to his infinite compassion.
His kindness is without agenda, and he shows equal compassion to all. This means that every one of his students receives the same infinite love and compassion from him. So my Lama embodies what is said in the final verse of Shantideva's Bodhicharyavatara (Dedication Prayer):
"For as long as space remains,
For as long as sentient beings remain
Until then may I too remain
To dispel the miseries of the world."
Thus do Holy Beings return as Lamas again and again for the sake of all.
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And this is because our mothers also work out of/from compassion... even when "angry" they do it for our good or benefit. Of course there are exceptions to the rule (I cringe to think of it!) but on a whole a mother has that innate instinct to benefit her child.
Dear PA,
I think there is no exceptions when it comes to mothers.
It may be a very demanding journey for someone who had to endure a "mean" mother to discover the infinite compassion she actually displayed while carrying her baby and everything else... But it is a necessary journey.
There is nobody who can be exempted from contemplating on the compassionate nature of his/her mother.
Nobody one can say to: "oh, it's ok, in your case your mother was essentially evil, no hope anyway, maybe mediate on the true compassion of your pet-dog instead".
If we love the whole universe of all sentient beings, ALL, but justify one exception, we have failed to develop compassion to the most important being of them all.
That's what I think.
Dear HR,
I used the term "exceptions to the rule" merely to illustrate that not all mothers act out of compassion for their child. It is not meant to use the mother as an excuse or scapegoat for the child's own shortcomings, failures or thinking the child has been dealt bad cards in life. It is to basically say mothers are not exempt from acting out of selfishness, anger, etc.
However, it is most likely than not, that mothers DO want the best for their child/children as having to actually "endure" and eventually enjoy the euphoria of having a child does make most mothers act out of compassion for their child... but not always! That was what I meant to say!.
In the case of the Lama... this act of compassion is CONSTANT and FAIR and knows no boundaries given our karma to receive the Lama's kindness of course. I mean, after all, if we keep accumulating negative karma, we wont even have the privilege let alone the good fortune to receive blessings from the Lama. Not because the Lama is not compassionate or wanting to help... we have not created the causes for it. Everything in our lives (positive or negative) have and will be created by us and not one else.
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Dear HR,
I used the term "exceptions to the rule" merely to illustrate that not all mothers act out of compassion for their child. It is not meant to use the mother as an excuse or scapegoat for the child's own shortcomings, failures or thinking the child has been dealt bad cards in life. It is to basically say mothers are not exempt from acting out of selfishness, anger, etc.
However, it is most likely than not, that mothers DO want the best for their child/children as having to actually "endure" and eventually enjoy the euphoria of having a child does make most mothers act out of compassion for their child... but not always! That was what I meant to say!.
It is interesting as I very recently met someone who told me that this meditation on "every being having been my mother before" would not work for him as his mother was really mean and not compassionate.
I told him that he was very lucky to have such a difficult object of meditation, contemplation and compassion, for if he can over-ride his perception of his mother, he would make tremendous progress on his spiritual journey. Maybe that was the real compassionate gift of his mother to him.
He was a bit skeptical to my comment at first, but then it got him thinking.... hehehe...
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Dear HR,
I used the term "exceptions to the rule" merely to illustrate that not all mothers act out of compassion for their child. It is not meant to use the mother as an excuse or scapegoat for the child's own shortcomings, failures or thinking the child has been dealt bad cards in life. It is to basically say mothers are not exempt from acting out of selfishness, anger, etc.
However, it is most likely than not, that mothers DO want the best for their child/children as having to actually "endure" and eventually enjoy the euphoria of having a child does make most mothers act out of compassion for their child... but not always! That was what I meant to say!.
It is interesting as I very recently met someone who told me that this meditation on "every being having been my mother before" would not work for him as his mother was really mean and not compassionate.
I told him that he was very lucky to have such a difficult object of meditation, contemplation and compassion, for if he can over-ride his perception of his mother, he would make tremendous progress on his spiritual journey. Maybe that was the real compassionate gift of his mother to him.
He was a bit skeptical to my comment at first, but then it got him thinking.... hehehe...
HR.... this is precisely the reasoning we all give ourselves at some point in our lives. Some more often than most! The fact that others are to blame for our shortcomings or downfalls. Whilst they may be in part a contributing factor in the equation, the sum of the problem is actually ours and ours alone. We created the conditions for such matters to arise within ourselves and others.
I believe this to be true because, if kindness, goodness and all other "good" factors are conditional to exterior circumstances, there would not be any good in this samsaric existence! Great minds, great prophets, great sages, great people all fought the tide to get to where they are... they never blamed anyone but themselves. In fact, these "greats" were often challenged way beyond our own perceptions to be where they are. Such is life... do we go against the current to succeed or do we take the "easy" route and just go with the current and when we reach that waterfall we say... "oh oh!"
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Such is life... do we go against the current to succeed or do we take the "easy" route and just go with the current and when we reach that waterfall we say... "oh oh!"
LOL,
I like the way you imaged this.
Very real!
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Such is life... do we go against the current to succeed or do we take the "easy" route and just go with the current and when we reach that waterfall we say... "oh oh!"
LOL,
I like the way you imaged this.
Very real!
I imagined this analogy purely because it is so real to me... If we go with the current, they are times when its smooth and we just float along and enjoy the ride, at times it gets a little rough and we need to "navigate" with our oars and such.... and at times the "rapids" are so strong we either capsize or we fight to stay afloat... but after all the ups and downs, it only leads to ONE result... the waterFALL and then its OH OH.
Hence we dont we just try to go against the current for as hard as possible, sometimes slipping and getting carried by the current but always fighting AGAINST it to try to reach the safety of the banks... At least then, we are guaranteed some "salvation" and our efforts would not be in vain.... :)
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Yes, ALL Lamas are here to teach us the dharma and imagine how much problems we created for them over and over again due to our ignorance, ego and attachments? They returned life after life just teach us more, and we are so stuck with our own views and habituation. The Lama has to use all different methods to get the teaching to us.. which actually takes up a lot of energy and don't forget even if they are enlightenment, they are in human form... just like us. Sometimes in order to teach us something, they have to manifest flaws and lower down to our standard... They are not superman, if they are they would have taught us how to fly. So we must not abuse the fact that just because they are highly attained, they must have the compassion of enduring our bad qualities. In fact, we are only creating a cause of our lama becoming more distant to us.
I think Barzin you have hit the nail to head on this one! Agree. One thing for sure, the best gift anyone could give back to the Lama is one's transformation. Like what DD said the Lama is... Just waiting for the day we turn a new leaf and write a direction in our lives. One that gives up on the poisons of this existence.
So when do we stop taking and start giving? When do we really change and turn in to that new leaf? When instead of asking the Buddhas to please bless, please help and please give... when do we really give back?
So what do can we do when our strong bad habituations keep rising up before us, how do we stop it and challenge it especially when one is down already? Knowing the answers and all the theories we read in Dharma books and actualising it is really different and to do that take great amount of will power especially to make it consistent. So how do we make it consistent when our minds jump up and down like monkeys? How do we quickly overcome our inner obstacles?
Do we engage in a puja? Just continue with our practise or do we engage in a retreat? Do purification practices???
Hopefully not too late and before the opportunity is lost.
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Yes, ALL Lamas are here to teach us the dharma and imagine how much problems we created for them over and over again due to our ignorance, ego and attachments? They returned life after life just teach us more, and we are so stuck with our own views and habituation. The Lama has to use all different methods to get the teaching to us.. which actually takes up a lot of energy and don't forget even if they are enlightenment, they are in human form... just like us. Sometimes in order to teach us something, they have to manifest flaws and lower down to our standard... They are not superman, if they are they would have taught us how to fly. So we must not abuse the fact that just because they are highly attained, they must have the compassion of enduring our bad qualities. In fact, we are only creating a cause of our lama becoming more distant to us.
I think Barzin you have hit the nail to head on this one! Agree. One thing for sure, the best gift anyone could give back to the Lama is one's transformation. Like what DD said the Lama is... Just waiting for the day we turn a new leaf and write a direction in our lives. One that gives up on the poisons of this existence.
So when do we stop taking and start giving? When do we really change and turn in to that new leaf? When instead of asking the Buddhas to please bless, please help and please give... when do we really give back?
So what do can we do when our strong bad habituations keep rising up before us, how do we stop it and challenge it especially when one is down already? Knowing the answers and all the theories we read in Dharma books and actualising it is really different and to do that take great amount of will power especially to make it consistent. So how do we make it consistent when our minds jump up and down like monkeys? How do we quickly overcome our inner obstacles?
Do we engage in a puja? Just continue with our practise or do we engage in a retreat? Do purification practices???
Hopefully not too late and before the opportunity is lost.
Wonderful thread! When DO we give back? At least when do we actually act upon or take heed our Lama's advice. Anything and everything done by our Lama is to benefit us. How can it not as they are enlightened and compasionate beings. If the Lama's actions seem otherwise, we should look deeper inside ourselves and we will find the true culprit to the misconception... albeit very well hidden behind years if not lifetimes of habituations.
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I think it is world's most difficult job! I would think that it is easier to run a country than to be a Lama. As a President of a country, his pledge to his fellow country men is to make sure the country is peaceful, progresses and level of poverty is kept at its minimum level. His perks and rewards are bountiful then.
As for a Lama, he not only has to do all of the above, but has to device personalised spiritual plans for each individual while working around each individual's karma that is ever changing, inundated with ridiculous requests as though a Lama is a magician, and worse still, when the Lama tells a student out of great compassion the Truth and not taken well because Truth always hurt, there could potentially be back lashes.
And the perks a Lama gets is if and when the student transforms. Nothing in it at all for the Lama. So everyone who is reading this, do you still want to be a Lama??
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I fully agree with Rihana that the Lama's job is the "world's most difficult job!'
Most Lamas are highly Evolved and Enlightened Beings, who come back lifetime after lifetime as our spiritual teachers and guides ; to listen to all our tiresome 'problems ', advise us (and do we listen ?), to teach us, to set us on the right path, to correct our flaws , to transform our minds, care and love us. Not just a few of us, but to everyone who seeks the Lama's help.
The Lama is the personification of Compassion, Living Kindness and Wisdom, and all he ever wants from us is to practice the Dharma and achieve attainments that we eventually be Enlightened. He has sacrificed everything in the material world and his own comfort for us, he even takes upon himself our sicknesses and negative karma so we may be safe .
He is patient and he never gives up on us. He has to come up with with different ways to handle different difficult students. He coaxes, persuades, screams, shouts - just to get us to 'wake up' from our own delusions. He has to plan specific tasks to individuals to bring out our fullest potential ( yes he recognises what we are individually capable of , even if we don't know ourselves ), holds our hands , shows us step by step how to achieve these assignments.
He gives away to deserving causes, all the donations he receives. He ensures that we do not go hungry, sick, cold or homeless. He ensures that we benefit from the Dharma and most importantly, he ensures that we have good rebirths when we die.
His unconditional love for us goes beyond any other love one can receive or expect - not even from our own parents. It is not duty that the Lama does all this for us - it is out of pure Compassion !
I cannot possibly imagine what it is like for the Lama, what he goes through for us and does for us, is just the tip of the iceberg.