dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: WisdomBeing on January 02, 2011, 11:18:38 AM
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I was reading an article which said that:
"It was Shakya Shri Bhadra, who was the previous incarnation of Buton, who was the previous incarnation of Dulzin Dragpa Gyaltsen, who later appeared as Dorje Shugden. There is no way around this."
http://www.wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org/dorjeshugden061.php
A reference is given http://www.dechen.org/resources/shakyashri.html, but i didn't find the reference to Shribhadra who was the previous incarnation of Buton.
This is the first I have heard of Shri Bhadra as one of Dorje Shugden's previous incarnations. According to the Detailed Lineage as listed here, http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=2181, Dorje Shugden's previous incarnation was as the Sakya Master, Sachen Kunga Gyaltsän, more usually known as Sakya Pandita.
Could anyone shed any light on this?
Many thanks...
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I could be wrong, but I think they are one and the same.
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Hi Lineage,
I thought that could be a possibility too but according to this website article, http://www.dechen.org/resources/shakyashri.html, it says:
"At Nyang, northeast of Sakya in Tsang, he was visited by the 23 year-old Khon lama and future 'Sakya Pandita', Kunga Gyaltsen, whose knowledge of Sanskrit greatly impressed the mahapandita. The descendants of Sachen had already inherited a vast ocean of dharma, unrivalled by other institutions, of which the foremost were the tantric teachings of the great lotsawas Bari, Drokmi and Mal. Through his studies with the mahapandita and the junior panditas, the young Khon's learning was increased yet more with works of sutra, tantra and, importantly, classical secular subjects which were previously unknown in Tibet, brought from the now destroyed universities of India. Sapan returned to Sakya to continue his studies with Sugatasri, one of the learned assistant panditas."
So although a Buddha can emanate in two forms at once, it states here that ShriBhadra met Kunga Gyaltsen. Would you know if there are any references of Shri Bhadra as a reincarnation of Buton?
Cheers..
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Thanks WisdomBeing, I now think they are different.
If you read 'Music Delighting an Ocean of Protectors', Trijang Rinpoche quotes Shakya Shri as a previous incarnation of Dorje Shugden and he gives the incarnation lineage as:
SHAKYA SHRI
CHOKU OZER
BUTON RINCHEN DRUB
PANCHEN SONAM DRAGPA
SONAM YESHE WANGPO
SONAM GELEG PELSANG
TULKU DRAGPA GYALTSEN
But there's no mention of Sakya Pandita, although Trijang Rinpoche does list him as an incarnation later in the text.
Here, there is a lovely biography of Sakya Pandita where Shakya Shri was his Teacher at one point:
http://www.hhthesakyatrizin.org/tradition_founder4.html
Perhaps it is like Je Tsongkhapa and Duldzin Dragpa Gyaltsen, who although they were concurrent, were both emanations of Manjushri.
Can anyone shed any light on Shakya Shri?
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In the article on Rabjampa Ngawang Lobsang, Trinley Kalsang writes:
The author refers back to how the later reincarnation of Panchen Sonam Dragpa, Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen, fulfilled this request:
Thus by the condition of this request, he intentionally arose to protect Je Lama’s dharma and its followers, performing extremely wrathful and fast activities for the sake of completely destroying inappropriate harm with force, reducing enemies of the Dharma to dust in an instant, conquering legions of demons holding the boundless, powerful Vajra. He manifested the form of Gyalchen Dorje Shugden Tsel. This was said by the lineage of past lamas through oral teachings and up to now became praised as the protector of Je Lama Tsongkhapa’s dharma.
The author then goes on to explain that Panchen Sonam Dragpa became famous as the reincarnation of Buton Rinchen Drup and that Buton Rinchen Drup became famous as the reincarnation of Shakya Shri. In other words, they are all in the same reincarnation lineage.
Later, he says:
The purpose of following the lineage back to Shakya Shri quoting these stories is part of the thesis the author is creating to establish the legitimacy of Dorje Shugden with the following points:
1. The previous reincarnation lineage of Panchen Sonam Dragpa includes the incarnations of Buton and Shakya Shri, who are definitely exalted beings.
2. The reincarnation lineage after Panchen Sonam Dragpa (the gzims khang gong ma lineage reincarnation lineage) includes Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen among others.
3. The reincarnation after Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen definitely became Dorje Shugden.
4. Therefore, Dorje Shugden is an emanation and not an ordinary rebirth as a result of throwing karma.
So Buton Rinchen Drub is definitely an incarnation of Shakya Shri.
http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/among-shugden-texts-1800b.html
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I think the position among sakyas is that they usually deny these claims.
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Dear Lineageholder,
Thanks for the useful information - so much to read and learn... :)
Zach - yeah.. the Sakyas are now in severe denial though I heard that it is because of pressure from TGIE.
Cheers!
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The article A SAKYA TALE also gives a very clear account of how important and central Dorje Shugden was in the Sakya lineage. It's a beautiful article, wonderful story-telling. Do have a read. I've read it a few times, and always get goose bumps reading it. I really like their reference to Dorje Shugden as one with Avalokiteshvara (that must be a slap in the TGIE's face!)
Here's the article!
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=4002
ORIGINAL: http://truthaboutshugden.wordpress.com/category/past-masters/sakya-history/
There's also been a thread on forum about this article:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=885
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Found this online, supported by nice images:
Dorje Shugden is generally believed to be a worldly protector deity that was likely practiced first in the Sakya Tradition of Tibetan Buddhism. According to some accounts he was inducted into the pantheon of Sakya protectors by Sakya Trizin Sonam Rinchen (1705-1741). Later, placed together with the two protector deities Dorje Setrab and Tsi'u Marpo they were collectively known as the Three Kings (Gyalpo Sum).
In the Sakya texts Shugden is known as Dorje Shugden Tanag, or rather Dorje Shugden Riding a Black Horse. He holds a butcher's stick upraised in the right hand and a heart in the left lifted up to the mouth. Dressed in the robes of a monastic and wearing a gold lacquer riding hat, he sits atop a black horse.
In the early 20th century Dorje Shugden Tanag fell out of favour with the Sakya Tradition in general. His devotees and practices have subsequently diminished. Since the late 20th century the offering rituals for the Three Kings are no longer found in the standard daily use Sakya Protectors manuals in monasteries in India or Tibet.
Sakya depictions of Dorje Shugden Tanag in paintings can be dated to circa 1800 . Although so far no sculpture have appeared nor are there any paintings with Shugden Tanag as the principal central figure. In all there are approximately half a dozen Sakya paintings known that have Shugden Tanag as a minor figure in the composition, a number of these are from the first half of the 20th century - research is ongoing.
Liturgical formulas and religious texts for presenting offerings to Dorje Shugden were created in the Sakya, Gelug, and Drugpa Kagyu Traditions of Tibetan Buddhism. The Drugpa Kagyu texts are from Bhutan. (No Drugpa Kagyu paintings have so far come to light). It is possible that other traditions aside from these three mentioned also propitiated the worldly deity and created visual depictions. The Sakyas have several short liturgical works all written approximately 200 years ago or more, whereas in the last century the Gelugpas have feverishly written enough new material to fill two standard size Tibetan volumes. This collection of works is called in short the Dorje Shugden Be'u Bum. The collection also includes those early Sakya writings.
Source: http://www.himalayanart.org/search/set.cfm?setID=490
1. Five Foremost Deities - Mo Lha (item no. 74078)
Tibet, circa 1800 – 1899
Sakya Lineage
Ground Mineral Pigment on Cotton
a) Main picture
At the top center is Padmasambhava. At the top right is Sakya Trizin Wangdu Nyingpo and an unidentified teacher sits at the top left. At the bottom are the two principal forms of Shri Devi, Palden Lhamo with four hands and Magzor Gyalmo with two hands. At the bottom right corner is Dorje Shugden Tanag riding a black horse.
b) Close up of Dorje Shugden Tanag
2. Mahakala (Buddhist Protector) - Shadbhuja (Six-hands) (item no. 252)
1700 – 1799
Sakya Lineage
Fine Gold Line, Black Background on Cotton
Collection of Rubin Museum of Art
a) Main picture
At the bottom left is Damchen Garwa'i Nagpo holding a hammer in the right hand and riding a brown goat. Next is Kartaridhara Mahakala. At the bottom right is the 'Gyalpo Sum' (Three Kings) of the Sakya School. The upper figure is Tsi'u Marpo the protector of 'Samye Chokor Ling.' Beneath him is Dorje Saitrap and slightly to the left is Dorje Shugden wearing a gold monastic riding hat, holding a vajra in the right hand and a gold vase in the left; riding a black horse. All are mounted on horseback.
The subject of the painting is the protector Shadbhuja Mahakala along with various forms of Mahakala. The Gyalpo Sum and Damchen Nagpo are worldly deities. The iconography indicates that the painting belongs to the Sakya School, however the irregularities in the forms would more precisely suggest a sub-school such as Tsar or Bulug (Shalu).
b) Close up of Gyalpo Sum
c) Close up of Dorje Shugden Tanag
3. Teacher (Lama) - Sakya Tridzin 32, Wangdu Nyingpo (item no. 77218)
Circa 1800 – 1899
Sakya Lineage
Ground Mineral Pigment on Cotton
Collection of Publication: Wisdom Publications, 2002 calendar
a) Close up of Dorje Shugden Tanag
- unfortunately the main image is not online. If anyone has a 2002 Wisdom Publications calendar, perhaps can scan and upload here?
Depicted at the top of the painting are the principal meditational deities special to Wangdu Nyingpo. At the top left are Chakrasamvara, Vajrayogini and Hevajra. At the top right are Vajrakila, Hayagriva and Vajrapani. At the middle left is Shmashana Adhipati, the two dancing skeletons, and on the right is Dorje Shugden Tanag, riding a black horse. At the bottom center is Panjarnata Mahakala with Brahmarupa Mahakala on the left and Shri Devi Dudsolma on the right. The gold background of the composition is filled with small depictions of the Buddha of long life Amitayus.
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Dear Vajraprotector,
What a nice post with so much information and great pictures. Thanks for the effort. I enjoyed looking through it very much.
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I think the position among sakyas is that they usually deny these claims.
NOW they will deny it. Too bad. Shugden was very kind to the Sakya lineage.
Even the current Sakya Trizin speaks against Dorje Shugden. I had tremendous respect for him until he spoke against Dorje Shugden. He should have remained like Penor Rinpoche and Dilgo Kyentse Rinpoche, completely quiet on the Shugden matter.
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Liturgical formulas and religious texts for presenting offerings to Dorje Shugden were created in the Sakya, Gelug, and Drugpa Kagyu Traditions of Tibetan Buddhism. The Drugpa Kagyu texts are from Bhutan. (No Drugpa Kagyu paintings have so far come to light). It is possible that other traditions aside from these three mentioned also propitiated the worldly deity and created visual depictions. The Sakyas have several short liturgical works all written approximately 200 years ago or more, whereas in the last century the Gelugpas have feverishly written enough new material to fill two standard size Tibetan volumes. This collection of works is called in short the Dorje Shugden Be'u Bum. The collection also includes those early Sakya writings.
Source: [url]http://www.himalayanart.org/search/set.cfm?setID=490[/url]
Thank you so much for all this info, VajraP, and the fab pictures! Would you know if any of this collection of works is in English and published? I presume this includes Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang's Musical Delighting which is on this website already. I don't think there are any books solely on Dorje Shugden, is there?
3. Teacher (Lama) - Sakya Tridzin 32, Wangdu Nyingpo (item no. 77218)
Circa 1800 – 1899
Sakya Lineage
Ground Mineral Pigment on Cotton
Collection of Publication: Wisdom Publications, 2002 calendar
a) Close up of Dorje Shugden Tanag
- unfortunately the main image is not online. If anyone has a 2002 Wisdom Publications calendar, perhaps can scan and upload here?
A picture of Dorje Shugden was on a Wisdom Publications calendar???!!!
Gosh - i hope someone has a copy stashed somewhere and can scan it!
By the way, does anyone know how Dorje Shugden's horse turned into a snowlion? I presume that he started off with a horse as his mount since he manifested to the Sakyas first?
Thank you.
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I think the position among sakyas is that they usually deny these claims.
NOW they will deny it. Too bad. Shugden was very kind to the Sakya lineage.
Even the current Sakya Trizin speaks against Dorje Shugden. I had tremendous respect for him until he spoke against Dorje Shugden. He should have remained like Penor Rinpoche and Dilgo Kyentse Rinpoche, completely quiet on the Shugden matter.
When you have the Dalai lama with his hand on your shoulder I think many would find it hard not to say anything.
With remaining silent there is a problem as we know not towing the party line can result in unpleasentrys and accusations. :'(
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I can empathize with what Zach W wrote. Now, we can imagine why some monks would prefer to be dead at this time rather than to be made to choose.
Thank you so much, VP for taking the time and trouble to post those wonderful information and pictures.
There is indeed so much to read and learn. Efforts such as these make this website truly enriching for all.
THANK YOU, EVERYONE!
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I think the position among sakyas is that they usually deny these claims.
NOW they will deny it. Too bad. Shugden was very kind to the Sakya lineage.
Even the current Sakya Trizin speaks against Dorje Shugden. I had tremendous respect for him until he spoke against Dorje Shugden. He should have remained like Penor Rinpoche and Dilgo Kyentse Rinpoche, completely quiet on the Shugden matter.
When you have the Dalai lama with his hand on your shoulder I think many would find it hard not to say anything.
With remaining silent there is a problem as we know not towing the party line can result in unpleasentrys and accusations. :'(
The Dalai Lama has no say over the other Tibetan Buddhist schools, hence the focus on a Gelugpa protector. As Thai Monk says, the Sakya Trizin could have been like the other leaders such as Penor Rinpoche and Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche. HH Penor Rinpoche didn't just remain silent but opened the doors of his monastery to Shugden monks so that they could have access to food and other essentials. That is truly the Buddhist spirit. May these great Tulkus return life after life to help us...
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Thanks for sharing this wonderful article, it nice to see our protector in his another emanation who is on black horse.
I heard some interesting stories from one of my friend who is also a very well known lama in the west.
By tradition, highest Sakya throne holder title is held between the two Sakya palaces since Khon Könchok Gyelpo's (1034–1102) reign, the Dolma Phodrang and Phuntsok Phodrang. Current Sakya Trizin is head of the Dolma Phodrang. H.H. Jigdal Dagchen Sakya (b. 1929) is the head of the Phuntsok Phodrang, and lives in Seattle, Washington currently. Which mean when the head of Dolma Phodrang passed away, the head of Phuntsok Phodrang will be enthroned as the throne holder of Sakya lineage and vice versa.
I was told the current H.H. Jigdal Dagchen Sakya is one of the DS practitioner, and H.H. Dagchen Rinpoche does DS practice even until now. HH Dagchen Rinpoche is a well known non-sectarian lama, who received teaching from various lineage masters.
H.H. Dagchen Rinpoche’s family lineage is considered divine because family records and Tibetan histories state that his family is descended from celestial beings from the realm of heavenly clear light. HH Dagchen Rinpoche is in the twenty-sixth generation of the Sakya-Khon lineage descended from Kön Gönqog Gyäbo and is regarded as an embodiment of Manjushri. Does it mean HH Dagchen Rinpoche and DS is same mind stream, since both of them are emanation of Manjushri, even Phuntsok Phodrang Family Seal is Manjushri's wisdom sword sits on top of a Dharma text.
I'm not too sure how true this news is but it definitely exciting if this is real, because we will know Dorje Shugden lineage is well spread in another main school of Vajrayana, not just treated as "world deity" as claims by current Sakya Trizin. If HH Dagchen Rinpoche really practice DS, which mean he might pass down the lineage to his descendants, which mean the next Sakya Trizin might practice DS too :)
I also wonder how HH Dagchen Rinpoche feel when he see the current all Sakya Trizin's view on DS controversy.
Wikipedia on Sakya:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakya)
Wikipedia on HH Jigdal Dagchen Sakya:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.H._Jigdal_Dagchen_Sakya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.H._Jigdal_Dagchen_Sakya)
Pic 1: HH Dagchen Sakya Rinpoche
Pic 2: Phuntsok Podrang Family seal
Pic 3: HH Dagchen Rinpoche and his descendants (left: Dhungsey Avi Kritar Rinpoche, right: Dhungsey Asanga Rinpoche)
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Thanks WisdomBeing, I now think they are different.
If you read 'Music Delighting an Ocean of Protectors', Trijang Rinpoche quotes Shakya Shri as a previous incarnation of Dorje Shugden and he gives the incarnation lineage as:
SHAKYA SHRI
CHOKU OZER
BUTON RINCHEN DRUB
PANCHEN SONAM DRAGPA
SONAM YESHE WANGPO
SONAM GELEG PELSANG
TULKU DRAGPA GYALTSEN
But there's no mention of Sakya Pandita, although Trijang Rinpoche does list him as an incarnation later in the text.
Here, there is a lovely biography of Sakya Pandita where Shakya Shri was his Teacher at one point:
[url]http://www.hhthesakyatrizin.org/tradition_founder4.html[/url] ([url]http://www.hhthesakyatrizin.org/tradition_founder4.html[/url])
Perhaps it is like Je Tsongkhapa and Duldzin Dragpa Gyaltsen, who although they were concurrent, were both emanations of Manjushri.
Can anyone shed any light on Shakya Shri?
I can't believe I missed this thread before this. I have looked into Music Delighting an Ocean of Conquerors and I found what you were saying. Apparently, the names of Lamas you quote here were not Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's recognition but were recognized based upon one of Kyabje Ling Rinpoche's previous lives. Just above those names, it is stated that...
"ACCORDING TO LOSANG LUNGTOG TENZIN TRINLEY,
KYABJE LING DORJE CHANG’S PREVIOUS INCARNATION"
Anyway, I found this on Facebook on the Himalayan Art Resources. It is an apparently old depiction of Dorje Shugden riding a black horse. I am guessing that this was the form that the Sakyas used to propitiate before. Behold...
(http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/931376_10151450202126025_1487092420_n.jpg)
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The current Sakya Trinzin has outlawed the practice of Dorje Shugden in his own school and have downplayed his role as well in the Sakya Tradition.
H.H. Sakya Trizin, Head of the Sakya Tradition:
“In the beginning the Sakya throne holder Sakya Sönam Rinchen bound Shugden to protect Dharma. However, neither Shudgen nor other worldly spirits were depended upon during prayer meeting at Sakya. The statue of Shugden was in some shrine rooms but in the lowest category in the pantheon. No Sakya follower has ever taken life pledging empowerment through the medium of Shugden… Later Shugden worship decreased strongly among Sakyas due to the efforts of three leading Sakya lineage lamas” [including the root Guru of Sakya Trizin who was] extremely unhappy with Shugden practice and advised on the demerits of Shugden practice. One of his disciples, Ngawang Yönten Gyatso, took strong actions to remove Shugden statues from the Sakya monasteries and to destroy them. Khyentse Dorje Chang Chökyi Lodrö was also very unhappy with Shugden practice, although he didn’t destroy statues, he performed rituals to banish Shugden. Since these three leading Sakya Lamas were against Shugden, this practice declined greatly among Sakya followers.”
But that is sad because the Sakyas have previously held Dorje Shugden in high regard. But because of the ban and the 'dislike' of his root Gurus, Dorje Shugden is 'stepped down' by the Sakyas now. I wonder if this has anything to do with pleasing the Dalai Lama or perhaps their karma with Dorje Shugden has exhausted?