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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ensapa on June 17, 2012, 03:50:33 PM
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found this on Phayul:
Tibet Marcher Tsetan Dorjee sentenced to five years by Nepali court
Phayul[Friday, June 15, 2012 17:55]
By Tendar Tsering
DHARAMSHALA, June 15: In an unexpected ruling, a court in Nepal today sentenced Tsetan Dorjee, the Tibetan who was on a march back home, to five years and five months, and 25 days in prison for illegally entering Nepal.
Dorjee was kept in detention for nearly two months before his sentencing.
He was arrested by the Nepali police at Thumpo Rin, 15 kms from the Nepali capital Kathmandu on May 21.
“During his detention period, Tsetan Dorjee had refused to bribe the police and stuck to his goal of marching on to Tibet,” Mogru Tenpa, a member of the Tibetan Parliament, who was with Dorjee just before he entered Nepal, told Phayul. “As a result, he has now been passed this heavy sentence.”
As of now, there is no information on whether Dorjee will move a higher court on his sentencing.
Dorjee along with his mother, Dhumpo Kyi and sister, Lhamo Kyi had embarked on their peace march to Tibet from Dharamshala, the seat of the Central Tibetan Administration on March 10.
After marching for over two months and covering more than 1,300 kms, the exile family was stopped by Nepali border police and forcibly returned to India in May.
However, slipping past Nepali border posts, Dorjee left behind his mother and sister on the Indian side and carried on with his March to Tibet in Nepal. He was arrested eight days later on the outskirts of Kathmandu.
Dorjee has been living in Israel for the last few years along with his wife and two children, and came back to India to begin his journey back home.
“If I die under the Chinese gun at the border, my message to all Tibetans is to be united in our struggle,” Dorjee had told Phayul before beginning his march.
“As Tibetans in Tibet keep burning themselves for a free Tibet, it is our responsibility to be united and stand together for Tibet,” Dorjee said. “It is time to be a Tibetan for Tibet, not just for one’s own family.”
Reports last month had indicated that Chinese authorities in Tibet are planning to re-launch the infamous Strike Hard Campaign not only in Tibet but also in Nepal.
According to the exile Tibetan administration, Chinese authorities have commissioned plans to “crackdown” on Tibetans across Tibet, and those living in Nepal through “collaboration with the Nepalese police.”
Boo hoo hoo, self pity, Nepal has no right to jail that Tibetan marcher despite the fact that he did not obtain any legal documents (oh! conveniently missed out in the article!). why did nobody arranged for that poor man's documents and visas to pass nepal? WHY DOES CTA KEEP SENDING THEIR CITIZENS TO DIE OR TO GET INTO SAD SITUATIONS FOR THEIR PUBLICITY???!??! THEN DOING NOTHING TO SAVE THEM!!!! THEY DONT CARE ABOUT THEIR PEOPLE! WHAT A DISGUSTING GOVERNMENT!
At least, respect and save your citizens! Lift the ban and the suffering it caused the people!
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found this on Phayul:
Tibet Marcher Tsetan Dorjee sentenced to five years by Nepali court
Phayul[Friday, June 15, 2012 17:55]
By Tendar Tsering
DHARAMSHALA, June 15: In an unexpected ruling, a court in Nepal today sentenced Tsetan Dorjee, the Tibetan who was on a march back home, to five years and five months, and 25 days in prison for illegally entering Nepal.
Dorjee was kept in detention for nearly two months before his sentencing.
He was arrested by the Nepali police at Thumpo Rin, 15 kms from the Nepali capital Kathmandu on May 21.
“During his detention period, Tsetan Dorjee had refused to bribe the police and stuck to his goal of marching on to Tibet,” Mogru Tenpa, a member of the Tibetan Parliament, who was with Dorjee just before he entered Nepal, told Phayul. “As a result, he has now been passed this heavy sentence.”
As of now, there is no information on whether Dorjee will move a higher court on his sentencing.
Dorjee along with his mother, Dhumpo Kyi and sister, Lhamo Kyi had embarked on their peace march to Tibet from Dharamshala, the seat of the Central Tibetan Administration on March 10.
After marching for over two months and covering more than 1,300 kms, the exile family was stopped by Nepali border police and forcibly returned to India in May.
However, slipping past Nepali border posts, Dorjee left behind his mother and sister on the Indian side and carried on with his March to Tibet in Nepal. He was arrested eight days later on the outskirts of Kathmandu.
Dorjee has been living in Israel for the last few years along with his wife and two children, and came back to India to begin his journey back home.
“If I die under the Chinese gun at the border, my message to all Tibetans is to be united in our struggle,” Dorjee had told Phayul before beginning his march.
“As Tibetans in Tibet keep burning themselves for a free Tibet, it is our responsibility to be united and stand together for Tibet,” Dorjee said. “It is time to be a Tibetan for Tibet, not just for one’s own family.”
Reports last month had indicated that Chinese authorities in Tibet are planning to re-launch the infamous Strike Hard Campaign not only in Tibet but also in Nepal.
According to the exile Tibetan administration, Chinese authorities have commissioned plans to “crackdown” on Tibetans across Tibet, and those living in Nepal through “collaboration with the Nepalese police.”
Boo hoo hoo, self pity, Nepal has no right to jail that Tibetan marcher despite the fact that he did not obtain any legal documents (oh! conveniently missed out in the article!). why did nobody arranged for that poor man's documents and visas to pass nepal? WHY DOES CTA KEEP SENDING THEIR CITIZENS TO DIE OR TO GET INTO SAD SITUATIONS FOR THEIR PUBLICITY???!??! THEN DOING NOTHING TO SAVE THEM!!!! THEY DONT CARE ABOUT THEIR PEOPLE! WHAT A DISGUSTING GOVERNMENT!
At least, respect and save your citizens! Lift the ban and the suffering it caused the people!
Truly a sad affair this.... CTA claims to be the voice of the people, to back the Free Tibet Cause... whatever that means (no disrespect but merely expressed within this context)! But a simple case of speaking up for ONE of their own and sparing the man the anguish and disappointment cannot be accomplished. What more is there to say about the bigger picture?
Where is the Prime Minister in all of this? Why is Dr Lobsang Sangay silent? With his Ivy League education, surely he could find a way to help... or at least "pretend".
I agree with you Ensapa, I too am disgusted... and I will not even go as far as calling them a Government because they do not even deserve that entitlement!
However everything is impermanent... speak up now CTA or forever hold your tongue! Speak up when it is required and stop hiding behind your petty roles and just DO IT! Prove to YOUR people you are there for them when it matters most! But alas... perhaps I am just putting water on a duck's back?
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To be honest, I am not too surprised at all. This is caused directly by the Dorje Shugden ban. The ban encouraged the blatant disrespect of human rights and thus it causes CTA to not respect any of its citizens' rights as people in general. They do not care, neither do they see people as people, they see them as pawns to further their ambitions into "getting" Tibet back. So what if yet another person sets themselves on fire and suffer a painful and agonizing death? So what if another one of protesters, who were working for our cause get into trouble? Sacrifices need to be made for the greater good, right? So it does not matter if these people get into trouble, it does not matter that we do not try and get this protestor out of trouble. He chose it anyway so we just sit back and write a pity party story about how Nepal is soooo harsh on an illegal, er, our protestor.
Dear Dalai Lama, this is what the ban is doing to the CTA. They are disregarding even their own as real individuals. If they can see Dorje Shugden practitioners as nothing, destroying their properties and homes, degrading them, insulting them, throwing them to the street even though they are senior monks and have total disregard for their human rights, CTA can do that too to anyone, including their own citizens. If Nechung allows CTA to take back Tibet again, millions more will suffer. Why would Nechung allow that?! NEVER. Unless CTA improves.
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There is an Office of the Representative and a Tibetan Refugee Welfare Office in Kathmandu, Nepal. Why was nothing done to help this poor Tibetan? And what happened with the member of the Tibetan Parliament, who was with Dorjee just before he entered Nepal? Why can’t they just bribe the police for him? A cheap bribe saves someone from suffering in the prison for 5 years and 5 months.
Anyway, I don’t think CTA can do much to help either because in 2005, the Nepalese government closed both office above in Nepal citing reasons that the Tibetan offices had not registered as required under Nepalese law.
2 things came into my mind when I first read the news. First, why didn’t the offices that look after more than 20,000 Tibetan refugees not register with the Nepalese authority? Second, knowing that The Tibetan Refugee Welfare Office (TRWO) had been helping many destitute Tibetans who fled from Tibet across Himalayan passes, Nepal still did cheap “trick” like this to please China. Of course, who dares antagonise China.
It just shows how sad the situation is for CTA/ Tibetans, and the only person who has some say or influence is slowly losing power to help on these secular issue as His Holiness wants to focus more on religion and not politics.
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There is an Office of the Representative and a Tibetan Refugee Welfare Office in Kathmandu, Nepal. Why was nothing done to help this poor Tibetan? And what happened with the member of the Tibetan Parliament, who was with Dorjee just before he entered Nepal? Why can’t they just bribe the police for him? A cheap bribe saves someone from suffering in the prison for 5 years and 5 months.
Anyway, I don’t think CTA can do much to help either because in 2005, the Nepalese government closed both office above in Nepal citing reasons that the Tibetan offices had not registered as required under Nepalese law.
2 things came into my mind when I first read the news. First, why didn’t the offices that look after more than 20,000 Tibetan refugees not register with the Nepalese authority? Second, knowing that The Tibetan Refugee Welfare Office (TRWO) had been helping many destitute Tibetans who fled from Tibet across Himalayan passes, Nepal still did cheap “trick” like this to please China. Of course, who dares antagonise China.
It just shows how sad the situation is for CTA/ Tibetans, and the only person who has some say or influence is slowly losing power to help on these secular issue as His Holiness wants to focus more on religion and not politics.
From how I see it, it is very clear that the CTA not only disrespects their own citizens and disrespects their rights, but they also disrespect other countries as well. Would it not be the proper thing to do to request the government for a license to run welfare office and do whatever is necessary to obtain it, not just open an office as and when you please on the land of others with total disregard for the government of that land! How insolent. And as a result, so many Tibetans in nepal are not well taken care of and they have nowhere to turn to for support and help when they need it. I dont think that the issue is due to China at all but due to the Tibetans disrespecting the government officials of Nepal which Nepal does not really take kindly to. In short, the Tibetans offended Nepal by disrespecting their rules and regulations, which is why they have to reap the consequence.
Perhaps, Dorjee was used as a sacrificial lamb by the CTA to generate more sob stories for their "cause" for Tibet and undermining China and so that they have more pity cards to pull out from. CTA caused and put him in jail in Nepal. The government official that was him is left out of the report in the news. This is not nice at all. This goes against so many Buddhist principles when people are used for political pawns and purposes. Sad. CTA is really, really degenerate.
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Now isn't that silly Dorjee! Why I cannot understand, do they think they live in a time where documents and papers and not required. Wake up!!! This is the 21st century people. You cannot just move about from one country to another without any proper papers... this is not sob story, this is a silly man who did something illegal and got arrested - the end.
How can you expect to cross a border full of shoulders and officers with very tight security and not expect to get yourself in to trouble? It definitely shows the type of mindset the Tibetans have and well even worst since they say they represent Tibetans as a whole... they represent their so govt too - CTA. Well CTA not only does not care about the marcher... they obviously does not care about their own reputation too. Silly! How on earth do they expect any seriousness from this and expect world leaders to pay them any attention? Not to mentioned the powerful Chinese Govt who will look at this and laugh their heads off. Oh dear :o CTA you've done it again... making yourself look really silly. You did not help your people and your people do not help you because the methods are all just foolish acts.
Look you want to march, crawl, walk, swim to any country... you need authorities to approve and well you need papers/passport and well sometimes a visa buddy.
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Ensapa,
Come on, if the Central Tibetan Administration really cared for her people, they wouldn't have enforced the ban till today. The Dalai Lama has stepped down and he no longer hold the reins of the government, why have they not dissolved the ridiculous ban on Dorje Shugden?
This point already illustrates how much that the Central Tibetan Administration really cares for her people. I am sorry but this guy is just one guy and there are so many suffering Dorje Shugden practitioners that the Central Tibetan Administration is totally neglecting. The funny thing is that all of Central Tibetan Administration's staff are Buddhist but none of them exude an ounce of compassion. All their policies have been to carry out instructions blindly and to impose and enforce self-serving rules.
You know something, if they took better care of their own people, the CTA would have a better chance of opening dialogue with China. They would be able to argue that, "Look, we are able to take care of our own people and so, give us the autonomy but we are still be under you(China)." This may seem simplistic but it can be the basis of a bigger and better plan. There's just so many things the CTA could do that will help with their situation with China instead of being trapped in a stalemate situation that will never be resolved.
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I just read this online:
The Embassy of Denmark in China on 19 June stated that Danish Parliament’s Foreign Policy Committee delegation will visit both Beijing and the Western Province Qinghai to discuss China’s environmental, social, economic and political challenges, foreign policy and growing role on the international stage. The delegation will visit Yushul Tibetan Prefecture People’s Congress and local villages in Yushul.
“We hope the Danish Parliamentary delegation be allowed by the Chinese authorities to carry out independent interviews with members of local community in Yushul,” said Dicki Chhoyang, Kalon for the CTA’s Department of Information & International Relations.
From: http://tibetoffice.com.au/ (http://tibetoffice.com.au/)
Why is it that the CTA expects/ "hopes" that the Danish Parliamentary delegation will carry out interviews? What has Denmark got to do with Tibet that they had to 'take over' CTA's job?
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Ensapa,
Come on, if the Central Tibetan Administration really cared for her people, they wouldn't have enforced the ban till today. The Dalai Lama has stepped down and he no longer hold the reins of the government, why have they not dissolved the ridiculous ban on Dorje Shugden?
This point already illustrates how much that the Central Tibetan Administration really cares for her people. I am sorry but this guy is just one guy and there are so many suffering Dorje Shugden practitioners that the Central Tibetan Administration is totally neglecting. The funny thing is that all of Central Tibetan Administration's staff are Buddhist but none of them exude an ounce of compassion. All their policies have been to carry out instructions blindly and to impose and enforce self-serving rules.
You know something, if they took better care of their own people, the CTA would have a better chance of opening dialogue with China. They would be able to argue that, "Look, we are able to take care of our own people and so, give us the autonomy but we are still be under you(China)." This may seem simplistic but it can be the basis of a bigger and better plan. There's just so many things the CTA could do that will help with their situation with China instead of being trapped in a stalemate situation that will never be resolved.
If they can ban the religious freedom of others and also mistreat them in a very bad way, they can definitely do it to anyone else. Here, in this example, this man was not a Dorje Shugden practitioner and he is on the side of the CTA and he is doing something for their sake and even then the CTA heartlessly abandoned him and made almost no effort to save him from trouble. Next thing we know, his wife marries a certain minister and the whole thing was an elaborate set up to put him to jail so that one of the ministers can marry the wife. But that's just a theory and even if it happens i am not surprised. The ministers are not known to be professional in the first place. Point is, what happened to the member of parliament that was together with him? why did he abandon dorjee and the phayul report conveniently misses out on that part and also the part where the CTA attempts to rescue him? They more or less do not give a damm about ppor Dorjee and that is probably the same attitude they have for everyone else in Dharamsala and Tibet. They dont care if many more suffer for the sake of their cultural identity.
Tibetans seem to have very little regard for authority and very little exposure. There seems to be a pattern here where they like to do whatever they like without getting the proper permissions from the local government or if their actions are actually illegal in that particular country. Then, they get into trouble and CTA proceeds to make a sob story out of it. If the Tibetans are happy in Dharamsala, does this mean that CTA does not have much rules to begin with to keep them happy? A government without proper laws is not a government. How can anyone take a government like this seriously?
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The ban took away many of the priviledges the tibetan people should enjoy. It has show signs of a monarchy government and even wanted to control religious belief. In the present century, countries around the world advocates religious freedom rather than banning and stopping from people to belive and worship their deity they have followed through many generations. It a shame to the CTA and even if they have gotten back in power of tibet, i wonder if it benefits the tibetan ppl.
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To be honest, I am not too surprised at all. This is caused directly by the Dorje Shugden ban. The ban encouraged the blatant disrespect of human rights and thus it causes CTA to not respect any of its citizens' rights as people in general. They do not care, neither do they see people as people, they see them as pawns to further their ambitions into "getting" Tibet back. So what if yet another person sets themselves on fire and suffer a painful and agonizing death? So what if another one of protesters, who were working for our cause get into trouble? Sacrifices need to be made for the greater good, right? So it does not matter if these people get into trouble, it does not matter that we do not try and get this protestor out of trouble. He chose it anyway so we just sit back and write a pity party story about how Nepal is soooo harsh on an illegal, er, our protestor.
Dear Dalai Lama, this is what the ban is doing to the CTA. They are disregarding even their own as real individuals. If they can see Dorje Shugden practitioners as nothing, destroying their properties and homes, degrading them, insulting them, throwing them to the street even though they are senior monks and have total disregard for their human rights, CTA can do that too to anyone, including their own citizens. If Nechung allows CTA to take back Tibet again, millions more will suffer. Why would Nechung allow that?! NEVER. Unless CTA improves.
I agree. CTA is very busy enforcing the ban. After all, they have to look busy. So busy that nothing else or nobody else matters. This forum allows freedom of speech and freedom of spiritual practice unlike CTA. Even when there was a teeny weeny voice who was on this forum who wrote in favor of the ban, the moderator did not suspend his/her postings. But no, all hell will break loose if a teeny weeny person were to speak up for Dorje Shugden in Dharamsala. I wonder why HHDL talks of interfaith harmony but the CTA is adamant in ostracizing Shugdenpas to the point it is ruthless and inhumane?
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The ban took away many of the priviledges the tibetan people should enjoy. It has show signs of a monarchy government and even wanted to control religious belief. In the present century, countries around the world advocates religious freedom rather than banning and stopping from people to belive and worship their deity they have followed through many generations. It a shame to the CTA and even if they have gotten back in power of tibet, i wonder if it benefits the tibetan ppl.
CTA has a very dark and nasty history of banning lamas who have gotten more powerful than them from reincarnating and seizing all their property while they're at it. It will not benefit the Tibetans at all even if they regained Tibet, but instead more people suffer. Why? Just look at their history before China's invasion and how barbaric they were. CTA and their propaganda material may be able to disseminate lies to unsuspecting people but they cannot erase and hide historical material that talks about their brutal past and failures forever. they never cared for Buddhism, all they cared about was to polish the Dalai Lama's apple as how to fill up their pockets with money even if it means that they bring down others and cause suffering to others. They were never a Buddhist government from the start, just using the name Buddhism as a cover.
If only the ban was reversed and the Tibetans re-educated to actually care for the welfare of their people, China would feel more secure to hand back Tibet to them. They should really show proof that they can instead of demanding without collaterals.
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Another heartbreaking update to this story...why is the CTA not doing this themselves? The poor man's mother had to raise awareness in this way for her son to be released. In a normal country, when a citizen has been arrested by another country, the country immediately holds talks with the other country to reclaim their citizens, like how China immediately demanded North Korea to hand back their fishermen. They did not keep quiet the way CTA did. Learn from your enemy CTA, you have much to learn.
I was thinking if only WSS used this strategy instead of the protest, would it have made a difference?
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Tibetans in Nepal to move court for Tibetan marcher’s release
Phayul[Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:23]
By Tendar Tsering
([url]http://phayul.com/images/news/articles/120718113016M3.jpg[/url])
Tsetan Dorjee, his younger sister Lhamo Kyi and mother Dhumpo Kyi being confronted by border police at the Nepali border in Sonauli, May. (Phayul file photo)
DHARAMSHALA, July 18: Tibetan NGOs based in Nepal are all geared up to seek the release of jailed Tibetan peace marcher Tsetan Dorjee.
According to sources, the NGOs will be re-appealing Dorjee’s case in the court.
Last month, a court in Nepal had sentenced Dorjee to five years and five months and 25 days in prison for illegally entering Nepal.
He was arrested by the Nepali police at Thumpo Rin, 15 kms from the Nepali capital Kathmandu on May 21 while on his return march to Tibet and kept in detention for nearly two months before his sentencing.
Earlier this month, coinciding with the Dalai Lama’s birthday celebrations, Dorjee’s mother, Dhom Po Kyi was seen distributing pamphlets in the exile headquarters o Dharamshala, requesting Tibetans, Tibetan NGOs, and the international community to help secure her son’s release.
“My son has been jailed in Nepal just because he was on a peace march to Tibet, demanding the resolution of the ongoing crisis inside Tibet based on the principles of genuine autonomy,” Dhom Po Kyi said, appealing for her son’s release.
Dorjee’s younger sister, Lhamo Kyi has also brought out a newspaper titled, “Tsetan Dorjee,” which has information on the arrested marcher in Tibetan, English, and Chinese langauges.
Dorjee along with his mother, Dhumpo Kyi and sister, Lhamo Kyi had embarked on their peace march to Tibet from Dharamshala on March 10.
After marching for over two months and covering more than 1,300 kms, the exile family was stopped by Nepali border police and forcibly returned to India in May.
However, slipping past Nepali border posts, Dorjee left behind his mother and sister on the Indian side and carried on with his March to Tibet in Nepal. He was arrested eight days later on the outskirts of Kathmandu.
Reports in May had indicated that Chinese authorities in Tibet are planning to re-launch the infamous Strike Hard Campaign not only in Tibet but also in Nepal.
According to the exile Tibetan administration, Chinese authorities have commissioned plans to “crackdown” on Tibetans across Tibet, and those living in Nepal through “collaboration with the Nepalese police.”
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CTA is one strange government, it has the energy to enforce a ban on Dorje Shugden, ostracize a lot of the top Gelugpa Lamas who could actually help its cause for freedom. So even the ban on Dorje Shugden is not done for the benefit for the Tibetans there is some self serving reason behind the ban.
But it is clear from this example there is no way that CTA would act based on the benefit of their people. Any country in their right mind would defend, protect their people and make known to everyone and the world do not mess with my people. We will take all measures to protect our people. CTA acts in the opposite manner.
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CTA is one strange government, it has the energy to enforce a ban on Dorje Shugden, ostracize a lot of the top Gelugpa Lamas who could actually help its cause for freedom. So even the ban on Dorje Shugden is not done for the benefit for the Tibetans there is some self serving reason behind the ban.
But it is clear from this example there is no way that CTA would act based on the benefit of their people. Any country in their right mind would defend, protect their people and make known to everyone and the world do not mess with my people. We will take all measures to protect our people. CTA acts in the opposite manner.
It's pretty ironic isnt it? the resources it took to make all the anti Shugden propaganda could have been used efficiently to improve the Tibetan community instead of being used to enforce a ban which has no clear or direct benefits to the community although they would like to believe that it 'safeguards' Buddhism and its for the spiritual benefit of the people, but it is not and in reality, it is just to get on the Dalai Lama's good side and nothing more beyond that.
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Well, CTA has always been ineffective in governing the country....found this little story about CTA during the 17th century.
Shabkar's life story is illustrative of the time and place in which he lived. For example, political authority and rule of law were quite variable. In many cases, Shabkar himself mediates long-standing feuds between clans in Amdo which had been otherwise leading to seemingly endless rounds of bloodshed (493). We see that bandits posed a significant threat in Amdo as well (58, 167, 502). For wandering pilgrims like Shabkar, the dogs raised by nomads to fend off bandits were a threat in themselves. One wealthy family had fifteen dogs who chased and attacked him (106). While visiting Lhasa, Shabkar discovers one man deceiving children and selling them into servitude. He rebukes him, using Buddhist reasoning and also calls upon the moral and legal authority of the Ganden Podrang, reminding the man that "he would certainly be punished if the Palace of Ganden heard about it," (388). This suggests two things: first, that the Ganden Podrang held some power and authority to punish wrongs, and second that the reach of its arm was not necessarily very long. The reference to the Ganden Podrang comes across more as a general admonition rather than a specific threat to punitive action.
Sad to say, nothing much has changed since.
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Why “the voice of the Tibetan people” neglect the well being of its people? Why it is so contradicting? This is no surpise to me really, an exiled government which clearly prioritize personal agendas rather than the welfare of their own people. Why would CTA keeping quiet on this issue and allow Nepal to please the Chinese government by enforcing laws on Tibetan ‘refugees’? How many more of your people will have to suffer for the lack of care and integrity shown by you? Do something CTA, your people are suffering from the ban, mismanagement and your lack of compassion and practice of inequality. And you claim that you are Buddhists????? Illogical!
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Why “the voice of the Tibetan people” neglect the well being of its people? Why it is so contradicting? This is no surpise to me really, an exiled government which clearly prioritize personal agendas rather than the welfare of their own people. Why would CTA keeping quiet on this issue and allow Nepal to please the Chinese government by enforcing laws on Tibetan ‘refugees’? How many more of your people will have to suffer for the lack of care and integrity shown by you? Do something CTA, your people are suffering from the ban, mismanagement and your lack of compassion and practice of inequality. And you claim that you are Buddhists????? Illogical!
Well the CTA did do something, and that was to talk to their friends in other countries to try and put pressure on Nepal. But then again, it could have been done on their own initiatives instead of CTA's prompting. And you're right: CTA's silence on this matter is a little unnerving and it also shows that they dont really care about the Tibetans. It was more or less the same as the 17th century where criminals go unpunished, but those who oppose them will be punished with impunity. Nothing has changed or improved since.
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CTA does not care about their people at all. When Dorjee and family is one of those who supports their ban. It is not like they are a Shugden practitioner that the CTA disagree with or something. But even if it is a Shugden practitioner who is a Tibetan under the care of CTA, CTA should still do something to take care of them. Caring and support them, no matter what they are still your citizens.
It is very selfish of CTA to just ignore for the benefits of the situation. True, it might be a rumor that one of the ministers wants to marry Dorjee's wife, but they cannot just ignore a citizen like that just to benefit themselves. The CTA should really grow up and take on the responsibilities that they should be carrying instead on asking other countries to solve their problems. And not making use of situations like this for poor me stories.
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Whatever it is, CTA as a political government has a duty to protect ALL of its' people no matter what religion or whether they are actually supporting you or not. A government is supposed to protect and support its people when time of need. This is the main purpose for a government to be set up anyways, not harming or discriminating its citizen. In this case ignoring the pleas of your own people is just too much. I pity the Tibetans because they have no other choice but to rely on such a government.
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CTA does not care about their people at all. When Dorjee and family is one of those who supports their ban. It is not like they are a Shugden practitioner that the CTA disagree with or something. But even if it is a Shugden practitioner who is a Tibetan under the care of CTA, CTA should still do something to take care of them. Caring and support them, no matter what they are still your citizens.
It is very selfish of CTA to just ignore for the benefits of the situation. True, it might be a rumor that one of the ministers wants to marry Dorjee's wife, but they cannot just ignore a citizen like that just to benefit themselves. The CTA should really grow up and take on the responsibilities that they should be carrying instead on asking other countries to solve their problems. And not making use of situations like this for poor me stories.
I really doubt that they care about their people at all, if at all as they are more concerned with their own welfare more than anything else. The CTA did nothing to help Dorjee, and all they did was sit back while this man was being detained and did not attempt to do anything to rescue him from his situation. And then what is worse is they wrote a poor me story about him but nothing was being done to help him from his predicament. An attempt at least, would have made them look better...
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I really doubt that they care about their people at all, if at all as they are more concerned with their own welfare more than anything else. The CTA did nothing to help Dorjee, and all they did was sit back while this man was being detained and did not attempt to do anything to rescue him from his situation. And then what is worse is they wrote a poor me story about him but nothing was being done to help him from his predicament. An attempt at least, would have made them look better...
Yes, and I believe if the Tibetan community stand up to the CTA, like how they stood up for protests against China, the CTA would know that the Tibetans are looking and started to question their authority. When their authority is being threatened, the likelyhood of the CTA standing up to do something for the citizen. It is usually when someone brings up the issue, but without the high publicity of issue, it would not cause enough pressure to push for a cause that the Tibetans would want.
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Yes, and I believe if the Tibetan community stand up to the CTA, like how they stood up for protests against China, the CTA would know that the Tibetans are looking and started to question their authority. When their authority is being threatened, the likelyhood of the CTA standing up to do something for the citizen. It is usually when someone brings up the issue, but without the high publicity of issue, it would not cause enough pressure to push for a cause that the Tibetans would want.
If that would ever happen, I am sure that the CTA will be forced to replace those who are not efficient as they now know that what they are doing is wrong and they cannot continue. But sadly the Tibetans are too attached to their 'heritage' and 'culture' to change things. they lost their country, and now all they have left is the heritage and culture from the old Tibet which is not necessarily good,but they still want to preserve them and not improve them anyway. It is sad and funny at the same time.
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If that would ever happen, I am sure that the CTA will be forced to replace those who are not efficient as they now know that what they are doing is wrong and they cannot continue. But sadly the Tibetans are too attached to their 'heritage' and 'culture' to change things. they lost their country, and now all they have left is the heritage and culture from the old Tibet which is not necessarily good,but they still want to preserve them and not improve them anyway. It is sad and funny at the same time.
It is just silly how the Tibetans want to preserve everything. Instead, they should choose certain things that they think is correct, keep them. But for the wrong things like the way CTA is governing them, they should want for that change. This is to improve themselves as a whole so that they would be able to catch up with what the rest of the world is like.
The Tibetans should be letting the CTA know that the way they are governing them is wrong, asking or demanding for a change. This is so to prepare them for the future when the get back their land. Only by showing China that they are able to take care of themselves properly, I believe at that point, China will return their land to them. This is so as there are already Chinese citizens living in Tibet now. If the Tibetans are not able to take care of themselves, how would China trust them to give the Tibetans back their land with some of their citizens living at that piece of land.
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It is just silly how the Tibetans want to preserve everything. Instead, they should choose certain things that they think is correct, keep them. But for the wrong things like the way CTA is governing them, they should want for that change. This is to improve themselves as a whole so that they would be able to catch up with what the rest of the world is like.
The Tibetans should be letting the CTA know that the way they are governing them is wrong, asking or demanding for a change. This is so to prepare them for the future when the get back their land. Only by showing China that they are able to take care of themselves properly, I believe at that point, China will return their land to them. This is so as there are already Chinese citizens living in Tibet now. If the Tibetans are not able to take care of themselves, how would China trust them to give the Tibetans back their land with some of their citizens living at that piece of land.
To me, it is just something that comes from a deep sense of insecurity with themselves and their cultural identity. But eventually people learn to move on from things like these and learn to adapt and change. The Tibetans however refuse to as they are too afraid of losing the only cultural identity that they could ever have. I do find it sad but there is nothing anyone can do unless the Dalai Lama himself speaks up on this and educates the people on the importance of adapting to the new times.
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On one hand the CTA cannot care care of their own (see above).
On the other hand, the Government of China is showing extra care for the Tibetan heritage in the Chinese Tibet.
The CTA has nothing much to fight for anymore, it seems as if it is better to be Tibetan in China than in Nepal or even India (especially as a Dorje Shugden practitionner).
See this article: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=3873.0, (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=3873.0,) and change your mind as to how "bad" China is treating Tibet nowadays!
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On one hand the CTA cannot care care of their own (see above).
On the other hand, the Government of China is showing extra care for the Tibetan heritage in the Chinese Tibet.
The CTA has nothing much to fight for anymore, it seems as if it is better to be Tibetan in China than in Nepal or even India (especially as a Dorje Shugden practitionner).
See this article: [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=3873.0,[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=3873.0,[/url]) and change your mind as to how "bad" China is treating Tibet nowadays!
It has been so many decades now and CTA has not produced any results at all with their work of taking care of the Tibetans, apart from the initial infrastructures that the Dalai Lama has set up when he first arrived to Dharamsala. This proves that the CTA are not dedicated to neither to their work or cause at all and they do not really care about the Tibetans. CTA should really just quit and be normal citizens or they should learn from India on how to manage people and develop Dharamsala into a more hospitable place.
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To me, it is just something that comes from a deep sense of insecurity with themselves and their cultural identity. But eventually people learn to move on from things like these and learn to adapt and change. The Tibetans however refuse to as they are too afraid of losing the only cultural identity that they could ever have. I do find it sad but there is nothing anyone can do unless the Dalai Lama himself speaks up on this and educates the people on the importance of adapting to the new times.
Personally I do not really think that it is because of their insecurity that is why they do not accept change and want to try to adapt to changes. But instead, I feel that it is because of their laid back attitude that does not allow them to change and improve further. That is why, if the Dalai Lama speaks and forces them to change, they would change for the better.
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On one hand the CTA cannot care care of their own (see above).
On the other hand, the Government of China is showing extra care for the Tibetan heritage in the Chinese Tibet.
The CTA has nothing much to fight for anymore, it seems as if it is better to be Tibetan in China than in Nepal or even India (especially as a Dorje Shugden practitionner).
See this article: [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=3873.0,[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=3873.0,[/url]) and change your mind as to how "bad" China is treating Tibet nowadays!
It has been so many decades now and CTA has not produced any results at all with their work of taking care of the Tibetans, apart from the initial infrastructures that the Dalai Lama has set up when he first arrived to Dharamsala. This proves that the CTA are not dedicated to neither to their work or cause at all and they do not really care about the Tibetans. CTA should really just quit and be normal citizens or they should learn from India on how to manage people and develop Dharamsala into a more hospitable place.
Actually, the CTA could do great good for the Tibetans in exile, by doing this:
1.
Lift the ban on Dorje Shugden that is not within their jurisdiction in anyway, not to mention the inadequacy of this ban all together.
2.
Make peace with China, shake hands and embrace the future rather than dwell in the past.
3.
Represent the Tibetans in exile that wish to go and settle in the Tibetan province of China and ease their return.
4.
Drop their political agenda and become a cultural and representative body of the Tibetan culture and Tibetan people that have chosen to settle outside of the Tibetan Province and become the media body between them and China, in a peaceful, non-vindictive and cooperative way.
So, what about THAT agenda?
Can the CTA have the courage to do that?
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Actually, the CTA could do great good for the Tibetans in exile, by doing this:
1.
Lift the ban on Dorje Shugden that is not within their jurisdiction in anyway, not to mention the inadequacy of this ban all together.
2.
Make peace with China, shake hands and embrace the future rather than dwell in the past.
3.
Represent the Tibetans in exile that wish to go and settle in the Tibetan province of China and ease their return.
4.
Drop their political agenda and become a cultural and representative body of the Tibetan culture and Tibetan people that have chosen to settle outside of the Tibetan Province and become the media body between them and China, in a peaceful, non-vindictive and cooperative way.
So, what about THAT agenda?
Can the CTA have the courage to do that?
I do agree too that the Dalai Lama supporters should stop doing things that is against the growth of their country and city. Instead, act like what the list has written to practice things that are like that to benefit all that would help to spread Dharma in the years to come.
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Their action clearly shows that they do not care about their own people, it's obvious. But it's kind of sad that some of them who did not see the issue and yet support the CTA's action on segregating their own Tibetan people, this is really sad to know about. I personally find the fact that 'war' and discrimination in one's country are the worst thing a country can ever have. A country without peace and love is not a country.
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Results shows the cause. After over 50 years, the Tibetans have no improvement in their status nor regain back their country and identity and culture in Tibet, shows whether or not CTA cares about their people.
What a mess. Any details of dialogue with China?
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What still baffles me is the fact that although the CTA claimed that every movement or actions of the government are of the welfare of the nation. Where is the evidence to support to this statement and claim ? According to the statistic in 2005, only 11.5% of the Tibetan population had secondary education or higher. The younger generations of the Tibetans are in a highly disadvantaged position to get further education . What has the CTA being doing ?
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You mean there was statistics only up to 2005 where only 11.5% of Tibetans had secondary school education or higher.
Any statistics that is current. Or the CTA does not even bother with that now. Can anyone check that out? Maybe things are so deteriorated that it is wiser to avoid knowing and having statistics. OMG!!!!!
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It is really clear that the CTA can't do anything beside bad. The CTA is making life horrible for Shugden practitioners and now it is making life horrible for it's own people, how long more will this ordeal last?
It is clearly obvious that the CTA will soon run out of targets to harass, but with their greedy attitude those targets just aren't enough, that's probably why the CTA is targeting people of it's own kind to do all the risky things for them.
To the Dalai Lama, I highly advise His Holiness to look carefully at what the CTA is doing to his people, If his Holiness wants Tibet to achieve independence, he should do it without the CTA as the CTA only means harm to the independence of Tibet.
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It is still bad that he tries to cross borders illegally and he should know that in this day and age you cannot get away with this kind of thing. Borders cannot be crossed easily these days and he is not very smart for attempting to get away with that kind of thing. But he reflects his government as where are they? They do not care and they really are just going to let this marcher suffer. They always make mistakes and they are a sloppy government, even though this case may not be their fault 100%, but still. It still relates back to them.
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It is unfortunate for Tsetan Dorjee who would lost 5 years of his life due to his action of illegal trespassing national boundary.
If CTA cares about Tibetans they would have make a stand on the ban and discrimination against Dorje Shugden practitioners. Unfortunately it is still not happening. They have their own interests.
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Poor Tibethen who cannot defense themselves yet their so call government also not doing anything for them , the CTA is so much care about their own wealfare where they care about the unity of their own people very sad case.
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Very true, Ensapa. If the CTA actually cares about their people, they would have done something about it. But no, they did not even care enough to send a message to Nepal to tell them to release Dorjee. I am certainly not part of this but for god's sake, Dorjee is only a man and he needs to be protected by his own government, if not, who else is going to protect him?
All the CTA cares about is what the Dalai Lama says. Have they try to create harmony and peace after they have lost their country to China? No, what they did was to separate DS practitioners even if they are Tibetans, treating them poorly and disrespectfully as they were trash. If this is it, it is better that the CTA never gets to rule Tibet back because if they do, the whole Tibet is going to be in chaos.
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"Unite and free Tibet'? You must be joking. You call for a ban and discrimination against your own people for practicing Dorje Shugden and you want the world to believe that you can unite? Be the peace loving Tibetans you were before this ban. Be the compassionate and kind beings with wisdom first before you talk about freedom. How do you expect to rule a country if you cannot even behave as grown ups?
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Because the CTA can get away with the ban, and the discrimination, they are then emboldened to go that little step further and push boundaries and see how much they can get away with before their knuckles get rapped. So, why won't they try it?
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CTA is indeed very confused!
Firstly, CTA should have legally established themselves in Nepal and other countries to be seen as the legitimate government of Tibet. They would have more political clout when dealing with ministerial officials of the countries that accepted their application of office.
Secondly, CTA should have supported Tsetan Dorjee in his march to China. They could have gained political mileage on the potential international sympathy of its citizen marching to go home and how they care for its citizens. They could have been the hero. Instead they harped on Tsetan Dorjee carrying a Chinese flag amongst Tibetan, Indian and Nepalese flags. To Tsetan Dorjee, the Chinese flag was symbolic of his acceptance to autonomous rule which was in line with the Dalai Lama's proposed negotiation for the Tibetans-in-exile's return to Tibet. CTA declares the Chinese flag as a symbol of Chinese tyranny in Tibet. With that stance, how does CTA expect to fulfill the Dalai Lama's wishes? Do they expect the Chinese government to accept them back into Tibet when knowing CTA is still the political enemy? How naive!
More that 50 years of imposing the illogical ban on Dorje Shugden, CTA still have not learnt. The ban that had created so much sufferings for the practitioners is a negative controversy that diminishes their status internationally. Why would governments trust them if CTA keeps manipulating the politics for their own selfish gains and never show any care for the welfare of its own people? They should have promoted their rich Tibetan traditions and their authetically pure Buddhism to the whole world. With positive international awareness of their plight, they would have a greater chance of returning to Tibet. I may be wrong but international sympathy could have played a part in the Jews getting their country. After the Holocaust, the Jewish refugees unity and gained.
The CTA should wake up and change their way of governing. Lift the ban on Dorje Shugden and reunite all Tibetans to gain strength in numbers.
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I agree with you, Ensapa, but maybe not to the degree of seriousness you feel regarding this subject xD
What the CTA did here to one of their own was wrong. It is almost cruel. To send one of your people to a place where you know there will be consequences but still sending them there is terrible. And the worst part is that they are not going to help the marcher, he is just left there to suffer in jail. I am not too sure what the CTA is trying to get out of this. If they are trying to get any kind of publicity, its working. But they are not getting positive publicity, but instead negative. They are simply showing how cruel they are to their own people.