Author Topic: Mountian Phoenix on Dorje Shugden  (Read 7013 times)

beggar

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Mountian Phoenix on Dorje Shugden
« on: November 10, 2010, 12:11:44 PM »
Found this on the website which is quite unusual. Very refreshing to see a pro-dalai-lama / anti-DS view written in this way that is quite balanced, and probably the least offensive one I have come across so far. Full article can be read here: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=6357

Mountain Phoenix on Dorje Shugden

I’d like to draw your attention to a couple of blog posts by Tibetan Mountain Phoenix on her blog ‘Mountain Phoenix over Tibet’ which provides some interesting analyses of the Dorje Shugden issue from a less biased point of view than other Tibetan commentators:
http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/2010/10/mountain-phoenix-on-dorje-shugden.html

Even though the blog posts were a couple of years old but the issues she refers to are still relevant, unfortunately. In her first post, amusingly titled ‘Ghostbusters: I ain’t afraid of no ghost’, she says:

    “ Even if the pro-ghost people were all unpatriotic, selfish, pro-Chinese, Kundun-haters, and devil-worshippers, I’d wish the Kundun followers wouldn’t behave like riffraff. Honestly, it’s not flattering to the Dalai Lama to have such a following. I would wish for His Holiness to distance himself from this kind of behaviour. And I would also wish he would stop raising the issue in public. From an innocent bystander point of view, it would be more effective to debate the issue with the defiant Lamas and Geshes directly. After all, it’s them who need to be persuaded. The collateral damage of raising the issue in front of the public has reached a frightening proportion.

    Actually, I wish Kundun would consider dropping this issue altogether – just like what some of the Tibetan media have done. He has successfully discouraged the practice for years. So then the ones who remain stubborn just can’t be helped, can they? Why not leave it at that? There can’t be too many renegades left by now, can there? A couple of Lamas here and there, and most are keeping a low profile anyway. If the Dalai Lama stops to speak against the practice, they will stop defending themselves. If he intensifies his efforts, they will too. The way I see it, it is Kundun that controls this. “


‘Kundun’ is a name for the Dalai Lama. The destruction of Dorje Shugden’s practice has been an obsession of the Dalai Lama for over thirty years. He can’t stop mentioning it in public.

As Mountain Phoenix says:

    “The collateral damage of raising the issue in front of the public has reached a frightening proportion.”

It certainly has. Every time the Dalai Lama mentions it, there is a witch-hunt in which innocent Dorje Shugden practitioners are persecuted. They are already denied basic human rights such as travel permits, education and medical treatment. They are also barred from shops because of their religious beliefs. This has gone on for far too long and has even resulted in a split within the spiritual community. Dorje Shugden worshipping monks have been expelled from the monasteries under the control of the ‘Ganden Podrang’ or Tibetan Government in Exile and have had to build their own monasteries of Shar Gaden and Serpom. The division caused by the Dalai Lama’s words is probably irreparable, even if he were to retract his statements.

Mountain Phoenix wants to say this to the Dalai Lama:

Dear Kundun,
Do you surf the net sometimes? I really hope so. I humbly wish you would read what a fellow Tibetan has to say and people like Acha Purbu-la think. I wish you would agree that this ghost hunt leads us nowhere and is disrupting social harmony. I wish you would stop making the ghost an issue and lead us again on the path to cope with the big problems that lie ahead of us as a people.


Sadly, because she follows the Dalai Lama, she refers to Dorje Shugden as ‘a ghost’, even though later she acknowledges that there is a view held by some that he is a Buddha:

“To be fair to the other side, I should mention that they don’t think they are worshipping a ghost. For them, the ghost is an enlightened being (a Buddha or something to that effect). A view, that many people don’t like to hear, no Tibetan media reports on, and nobody wants to openly talk about. Nevertheless, if the other side believes the ghost is a divine Being, it is their right. Likewise, it is the right of the mainstream people to believe that the ghost is a demon. It is their right to believe in one way or the other but just keep quiet about it. On the other hand, one can opt out from making a stand and just keep quiet about it.”

She refers to Dorje Shugden as a demon and calls it a mainstream view. This shows how much damage the Dalai Lama’s view has caused in the last thirty years. Through blind faith in ‘Kundun’ and his draconian ban on the practice, Tibetans have turned away from the practice of Dorje Shugden, a once mainstream Gelugpa practice. However, there are those who sincerely wish to keep their commitments to their spiritual Teachers and have steadfastly refused to abandon the practice; and they have been marginalized and ostracised from Tibetan society.

Her final conclusion puts Tibetan democracy to the test and it is a more balanced outlook:

“The way Tibetans have been handling the Dholgyal/Shugden issue says quite a bit about the state of our democratic values. We, Tibetans are okay with dissenters being forced into obedience. We see nothing wrong with this political method. We have no issues with the Dalai Lama exerting pressure on dissenters by using secular government bodies and tolerating the taking of oaths and signatures in his name. Some even believe it is their duty to expose Dholgyal/Shugden supporters and slander them.”

Sadly, not much has changed since Mountain Phoenix wrote her original blog post two years ago. The Dalai Lama is still speaking out against the practice (even as recently as last month) and Dorje Shugden practitioners are still being ostracised and vilified by the majority of Tibetans.

Vajraprotector

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Re: Mountian Phoenix on Dorje Shugden
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2010, 08:30:07 PM »
Thank you beggar for sharing this post. It is indeed good to read expression of opposite view that is written without bad-mouthing/ condemning / bashing. I think that is a good reflection of this person's faith towards His Holiness and his/her sincerity in trying to think of how to go about this in a Buddhist way  (e.g. wishes that HH Dalai Lama would consider dropping this issue altogether).

What a coincidence that we're talking about Uniting in Harmony in the other thread. Ultimately, whether we're consider pro or "anti" Dalai Lama (although I will never think that Shugden practitioners are anti-Dalai Lama), it is the real practice of Dharma (kind words/ speech) that will shine through. Something to reflect on.

Also, thank you for sharing about Wangse's mantra of developing great speech. It's a good reminder for us to be conscious about our speech to not harm/ hurt. 


triesa

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Re: Mountian Phoenix on Dorje Shugden
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2010, 01:24:47 AM »

Mountain Phoenix on Dorje Shugden

    Actually, I wish Kundun would consider dropping this issue altogether – just like what some of the Tibetan media have done. He has successfully discouraged the practice for years. So then the ones who remain stubborn just can’t be helped, can they? Why not leave it at that? There can’t be too many renegades left by now, can there? A couple of Lamas here and there, and most are keeping a low profile anyway. If the Dalai Lama stops to speak against the practice, they will stop defending themselves. If he intensifies his efforts, they will too. The way I see it, it is Kundun that controls this. “[/color]

‘Kundun’ is a name for the Dalai Lama. The destruction of Dorje Shugden’s practice has been an obsession of the Dalai Lama for over thirty years. He can’t stop mentioning it in public.

 The Dalai Lama is still speaking out against the practice (even as recently as last month) and Dorje Shugden practitioners are still being ostracised and vilified by the majority of Tibetans.

It may seems absurd that that Dalai Lama could continuously speak about the DS ban in public for 30 over years, but like what Mountain Phoenix said, the more the Dalai Lama speaks about this in public, the more the DS practitioners will defend themeselves.  If he stops, so will DS practitioners. Mountain Phoenix is dead on right in saying that it is Kundun (Dalai Lama) who controls this. So over the years, there have been constant publicity for DS and his practitioners.

We have to take all this as a positive campaign for making DS more well known to many non-buddhists in the world. As whatever the Dalai Lama said carries tons of weight, many would start to investigate who this so called "demon' is as claimed by the Dalai Lama, and eventually they would discover so much contradictions and illogical facts made by the Dalai Lama.

The truth will ALWAYS prevail, all these are leading more to find out the truth........

Zach

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Re: Mountian Phoenix on Dorje Shugden
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2010, 06:50:16 AM »
Thank you beggar for sharing this post. It is indeed good to read expression of opposite view that is written without bad-mouthing/ condemning / bashing. I think that is a good reflection of this person's faith towards His Holiness and his/her sincerity in trying to think of how to go about this in a Buddhist way  (e.g. wishes that HH Dalai Lama would consider dropping this issue altogether).

What a coincidence that we're talking about Uniting in Harmony in the other thread. Ultimately, whether we're consider pro or "anti" Dalai Lama (although I will never think that Shugden practitioners are anti-Dalai Lama), it is the real practice of Dharma (kind words/ speech) that will shine through. Something to reflect on.

Also, thank you for sharing about Wangse's mantra of developing great speech. It's a good reminder for us to be conscious about our speech to not harm/ hurt. 



We arent Anti-Dalai lama , We are Anti-Bull poo.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Mountian Phoenix on Dorje Shugden
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2010, 07:13:01 AM »
Thank you beggar for sharing this post. It is indeed good to read expression of opposite view that is written without bad-mouthing/ condemning / bashing. I think that is a good reflection of this person's faith towards His Holiness and his/her sincerity in trying to think of how to go about this in a Buddhist way  (e.g. wishes that HH Dalai Lama would consider dropping this issue altogether).

What a coincidence that we're talking about Uniting in Harmony in the other thread. Ultimately, whether we're consider pro or "anti" Dalai Lama (although I will never think that Shugden practitioners are anti-Dalai Lama), it is the real practice of Dharma (kind words/ speech) that will shine through. Something to reflect on.

Also, thank you for sharing about Wangse's mantra of developing great speech. It's a good reminder for us to be conscious about our speech to not harm/ hurt. 



We arent Anti-Dalai lama , We are Anti-Bull poo.

Zach,

It's good to hear you are not Anti-Dalai Lama (though who are the 'we' you are talking on behalf of?) but what exactly are you anti? The reference to bovine excrement is rather non-specific.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Zach

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Re: Mountian Phoenix on Dorje Shugden
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2010, 09:13:46 AM »
Thank you beggar for sharing this post. It is indeed good to read expression of opposite view that is written without bad-mouthing/ condemning / bashing. I think that is a good reflection of this person's faith towards His Holiness and his/her sincerity in trying to think of how to go about this in a Buddhist way  (e.g. wishes that HH Dalai Lama would consider dropping this issue altogether).

What a coincidence that we're talking about Uniting in Harmony in the other thread. Ultimately, whether we're consider pro or "anti" Dalai Lama (although I will never think that Shugden practitioners are anti-Dalai Lama), it is the real practice of Dharma (kind words/ speech) that will shine through. Something to reflect on.

Also, thank you for sharing about Wangse's mantra of developing great speech. It's a good reminder for us to be conscious about our speech to not harm/ hurt. 



We arent Anti-Dalai lama , We are Anti-Bull poo.

Zach,

It's good to hear you are not Anti-Dalai Lama (though who are the 'we' you are talking on behalf of?) but what exactly are you anti? The reference to bovine excrement is rather non-specific.

We ( The general assembly of practitoners who know these claims to be false )
Anti BS ( False claims of Dorje shugden being a lowly spirit )
Cleared up ?  :)