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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: thaimonk on March 20, 2011, 08:56:47 AM

Title: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: thaimonk on March 20, 2011, 08:56:47 AM
Exiled Tibetans elect new leader
Thousands of Tibetans worldwide voted on Sunday for a new political leader who hopes to become a fresh face of their struggle for freedom in China, a cause embodied for decades by the Dalai Lama.



Thousands of Tibetans worldwide voted on Sunday for a new political leader who hopes to become a fresh face of their struggle for freedom in China, a cause embodied for decades by the Dalai Lama.

The revered monk, 75, announced 10 days ago that he wanted to retire as political head of his exiled government and hand power to an elected leader who could continue the fight after his death.

Amid anxiety about the change, exiled Tibetans in 13 countries from Australia to the United States cast ballots on Sunday for a new prime minister, known as the Kalon Tripa, and a new exile parliament.

The front-runner for the prime minister's job is 43-year-old Harvard scholar and international law expert Lobsang Sangay, who was born in a tea-growing area of northeast India. He has never visited his homeland.

"His Holiness is devolving powers and we should be more cautious in electing the representatives and the Kalon Tripa," said Tsering Choedup, a political activist in Dharamshala, where the movement is based.

"This time, people feel more responsibility to vote," he said as he waited in line with others to vote at a Buddhist temple.

The exact details of the transfer of power are yet to be worked out -- the parliament in exile still hopes to block the change -- but the Dalai Lama is adamant that the movement must be fully democratic to prepare for the future.

Under his plans, he will remain spiritual head of Tibet and the figurehead of the struggle for autonomy for Tibetans in China, but he will no longer be head of the exile government.

The job is mostly ceremonial -- he signs resolutions, swears in the cabinet and occasionally attends parliament -- but the move is part of the Dalai Lama's plan to hand power to elected representatives.

"Rule by spiritual leaders or by kings, these are now out of date," he told AFP last week during an interview in his home in exile in the foothills of the Indian Himalayas.

Sangay is the clear favourite for Sunday's contest between three secular candidates, having triumphed in a first round of the election last year with nearly 50 percent of the votes.

"People see in me someone who is rooted in tradition but is also modern," he told AFP last Friday.

He voted to applause at a temple in Dharamshala on Sunday morning.

Final results will be known sometime at the end of April. Preliminary figures are expected to emerge in the next few weeks.

The move by the Dalai Lama to relinquish power is seen by observers as a risky but necessary step to prepare for a future without his charismatic leadership, which has kept the cause alive for the last 50 years.

It is unclear, however, whether the new leader will have the power or influence to advance the cause.

Despite 50 years of lobbying, even the Dalai Lama has little to show for his efforts. Beijing continues to brand him a "splittist" and subjects him to virulent attacks in public.

An uprising by Tibetans in 2008 was brutally suppressed.

The victor's legitimacy might also be in question among Tibetans in Tibet who will not take part in the election. Their loyalty remains with the Dalai Lama, who must convince them to accept his transfer of power.

Sangay faces competition from two older candidates, Tenzin Tethong and Tashi Wangdi, who both have a long track record in government in the Tibetan administration in exile in Dharamshala.

The election did not go ahead in Nepal where 20,000 of the estimated 150,000 exiled Tibetans live. Under Chinese pressure, authorities in Kathmandu prevented what they see as an unlawful vote.

"The mood of optimism across the diaspora was marred by the news," said a statement from the International Campaign for Tibet.

The Tibetan exile movement has been based in India since 1959 when the Dalai Lama fled across the Himalayas after a failed uprising against Chinese rule.

Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: thaimonk on March 20, 2011, 09:01:04 AM
Harvard Graduate Lobsang is the face of the new Tibetan govt? If he does a good job, Tibetans will never be ruled by Dalai Lama again. Many of the Dalai Lama's policies will fade in time. Lobsang like many lay Tibetans will know very little dharma and will not be so apt to be involved with alot of religious debates and sect differences. It will be very hopeful for the cause of Dorje Shugden's ban to fade into obscurity.

What Harvard graduate Prime Minister would want to be seen as repressing or supressing religious freedom as the newly elected DEMOCRATIC prime minister?
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: DSFriend on March 21, 2011, 04:22:24 PM
Ah..this is such a refreshing read dear Thaimonk. Thanks for the news.

Harvard. Progressive and forward thinking I would assume. Good looking too! :) I'd think the new generation will be able to relate to him well after a bit of warming up to the new policies.

I certainly do not think any Harvard graduate Prime Minister with friends in the high places and elites of the nations  would want to be associated to run a country with feudal systems, oppression, supressing religious freedom, promotes discrimination and violates human rights. Perhaps it's too premature to bid farewell to the ban, but certainly not too early to say hello to religious freedom and practice of Dorje Shugden!

What I'm not too sure of is how successful he will be in facing China, the Goliath. I personally do not think he will be able to get Tibet "back" but perhaps strike policies that will be a win-win for all..if not, close to it.

Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: WisdomBeing on March 23, 2011, 11:19:00 AM
I came across this interesting article from the New York Times website from September last year.
http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/china-and-tibet-2/

The writer states that "China is waiting for the Dalai Lama to die, so that Tibetans will lose their leader and cohesion. But the result is not that Tibet will be easier to dominate; rather, it is likely to become more violent. There already are many, many young Tibetans who think the Dalai Lama has been too patient, too conciliatory, too pacifist. This is particularly true of the exiles; Tibetans actually in China tend to be more pragmatic and willing to work things out. But overall, my hunch is that we’ll see more violent resistance after the Dalai Lama goes."

Why i found this interesting was that many people think that the Tibetan issue will pass away with the passing of the Dalai Lama, but this writer says that "The chance of a peaceful political solution will die with the Dalai Lama." and that the current restraint on violence from the Tibetans has been because of the Dalai Lama.

The writer should consider how the Dalai Lama didn't ask the anti-Shugden brigade to restrain their violence though.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: LosangKhyentse on March 23, 2011, 01:59:07 PM
Vast majority of Tibetans have very little exposure to the outside world and know very little. To explain democracy, or freedom of religion, or religious supression to them is beyond what they can understand. Their world is very small. Their world consists of:

1. Get Tibet back and be as they were.
2. Dalai Lama will save the day, and no one else in the world can lead them.
3. Recite Om Mani Peme Hungs as much as possible to improve their lot in this life and the next.
4. How to get to US or Europe for a better life and make much more money.
5. Make sure the Dalai Lama is happy and not offended or you'll be ostracized.

Majority of Tibetans living in India and Nepal revolve around the 'GOLDEN FIVE THOUGHTS'. They are not concerned of Global warming, environmental degradation, world economy, wars in the middle east, alternative power sources, rise of China as a super power, or how to help quake victims in Japan, etc. Even if they knew more, they would not be concerned.

By the 'grace' of the Tibetan Govt they are still kept in peasant mode of thinking. The younger generation may have a better education, but the Tibetan Govt does not allow them to think, act, grow or expand. Besides the Dalai Lama, you have no Tibetans who are global force, thinkers, players of any sort. Tibetans do not affect the world as much as the Dalai Lama would like to think and hope so. His very presence as the Dalai Lama was a great unifying force in Tibet of old and kept Tibetans together. But in the modern world today, his role MUST CHANGE DRAMATICALLY. If the younger generation of Tibetans scattered throughout the globe were educated correctly, exposed and aware of events around the world besides their Tibet-centric focus, you would see more Tibetan Global players. But the sad fact is you don't. This leads directly to the failure of the Tibetan Govt in Exile in Dharamsala. Their biggest concern is to make Dalai Lama's star drawing power bigger so they can all make their private connections and move their families out of India and to the eventual safety all Tibetans crave fearing the eventual demise of Dalai Lama. This fear of what will happen to them after the Dalai Lama's death is unspoken as it's 'inauspicious' to talk of the Dalai Lama's death, in other words, treason.

The bigger the Dalai Lama becomes, the more benefits the cronies and subserviants would benefit naturally. Just like in old Tibet.

Dalai Lama holding onto power this long has not brought back independence of Tibet ( the land of milk and honey). Dalai Lama holding onto power has made Tibetan Buddhism mainstream and accepted but with the recent controversies such two Panchen Lamas, two Karmapas, Succession and Dorje Shugden has disappointed many truth be told.

There will be very little significant changes to the Tibetan Govt as long as the Dalai Lama is alive even with the election of the new prime minister or the devolvement of power by the Dalai Lama. Tibetan Buddhism will continue to grow because Dalai Lama is alive which is good. That is the dichotamy. I guess for the growth of Tibetan Buddhism, the Tibetan cause must be 'sacrificed' and remain unfulfilled.

Dorje Shugden's ban still will not go away, but start to fade with the new prime minister. As he is purely secular, let's hope he doesn't use the Tibetan govt to back up religious edicts as the Dalai Lama has been doing.
It's one thing when one Lama speaks up about a religious issue. It's another thing when the Tibetan Govt backs up the Lama's views and integrates it into their policies for their citizens. So and so Rinpoche may express this or that, but it will not become a govt policy. When Dalai Lama issued his ban, the govt fully 'supported' the ban all the way. The Tibetan constitution was amended to suit the ban. For example children of Dorje Shugden practitioners may not attend Tibetan schools. No other Lama after the Dalai Lama will be supported by the Tibetan Govt. In fact the Tibetan govt will fade after the demise of the Dalai Lama. Any other lamas speaking negatively about Dorje Shugden will be ignored or taken to court for defamation.

Surely the new prime minister will have to please the Dalai Lama for now,  but eventually he and his successors will have to shift his focus away from religious and more towards secular. That is when we shall see the ban fade. It is the beginning to the end.

TK
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: thaimonk on March 24, 2011, 06:15:13 PM
Its confirmed, whats next... Tibetan Parliament accepts Dalai Lama decision The Tibetan parliament has decided to honour the Dalai Lama’s decision to retire. A three-member committee of Tibetan MPs, headed by outgoing Prime Minister Dr Samdhong Rimpoche, on Wednesday tabled a report in parliament providing suggestions for amending the Charter for Tibetans-in-Exile. The 10-page report was read out by Rimpoche. The changes which the committee has proposed include giving more powers to the Tibetan Supreme Justice Commission, Speaker and Deputy Speaker. Rimpoche said that though the committee, comprising Deputy Speaker Gary Dolma and another MP, has agreed to recommend the amendments, the MPs need to go to the people and create a consensus since Tibetans want the Dalai Lama to lead them. On March 10, the 75-year-old Nobel prize winner had announced his decision to quit as the political head of the Tibetan government-in-exile.

from Danielle on Guestbook
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: WisdomBeing on April 01, 2011, 05:16:22 PM
I have just read this interesting news from facebook:

The name of the winner of the recent election, Mr. Lobsang Singey, has leaked through all over Tibetan settlements into the streets, even though the TGIE did not plan to release the results of Kalon Tripa elections until April 27. The overwhelming majority of the Tibetans voted for him – 29,253 leaving behind Tenzin Tethang with 18,415 votes and Tashi Wangdu – 8,967.

Lobsang Singey is an outsider of TGIE, and his victory with such a huge margin demonstrated that the Tibetans are fed up with the existing TGIE and the scandals around it for the last years.

Samdong Rinpoche’s speech in May 2010 in New York City expressed his fear that more and more Tibetan people start losing faith in Dalai Lama. He also mentioned that Rangzen (Tibetan for “Independence”) activists and democratic thinkers are more “dangerous” to Dalai Lama than Chinese communists and Shugden followers.

http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2010/09/10/dangerous-liaison-i/

Certainly Dalai Lama found himself on the same side with Chinese government and on the other side of his supporters in the whole world who had been expressing their support to him and Tibetan independence for the last 50 years.
It is obvious that the recent elections showed that Tibetan people do not want theocracy government any more. Dalai Lama was one step ahead to step down. If he waited then people would ask him to step down. ..

Shugden USA
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: dsiluvu on April 01, 2011, 10:16:44 PM
Oh My Buddha!!! This is really a piece of fresh and interesting news for decades!!!

It is almost like a prophesy coming true where by the Tibetan Govt and H.H. with all due respect will change, Dalai Lama will step down and no longer be the ruler life after life... this is Tibetan history in the making and what is most exciting is that the time for Dharmapala Dorje Shugden to arise is becoming more and more real! I remember TK once used to ask and pose such questions about when the Dalai Lama is old and he starts taking his leave and preparign for his next rebirth, what will the Tibetan then do or say.

Looks like most of them Tibetan are also tired of all the TGIE's games!

This makes me think, and I am convinced truly this whole drama about Dorje Shugden being evil, bad ban was all a premeditated mission by the Dalai Lama to prepare for DS to come in anda big way!!! And all this nonsense of a ban this anwill all surely fade and behold to open up the gateway for Dorje Shugden to just come to the world!

This new young, Lobsang Singey sounds more open and promising...
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: WoselTenzin on April 02, 2011, 02:44:03 AM
Having Lobsang Sangay as the new Prime Minister of the TGIE sounds refreshing and promising for the future of Tibetans.  After decades of being governed by oppressive policies of Shugden ban and the fear of being ostracized for offending the Dalai Lama, Tibetans will for their first time experience a taste of real freedom and democracy. 

Even if not completely in the beginning, having a secular educated leader will send a message to other young progressive educated Tibetans, that the Tibetan communities do not always have to revolve around the Dalai Lama and his policies.  Things can change and there is hope for the future.

I am not sure how successful Lobsang Sangay is going to be but if the leadership of Tibet can be passed over to this young new leader who is attuned to the modern world and it's needs, it is an indication that the future of Tibetans is taking the right direction.  If and when he becomes the Prime Minister, if he is a true sincere leader out there to improve the lot of his country men, he would be dealing with so many real issues and the illogical senseless Shugden ban will be the least of his concern.  Eventually, the archaic Shugden ban policy would fade into oblivion...   
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: Roberto on April 02, 2011, 04:01:16 AM
There are high hopes for the new prime minister. I just hope it won't be like Afghanistan's prime minister, a token puppet in place to satisfy international concerns and keep the situation under wraps and control.

You don't here anything about Afghanistan anymore do you? Would this be any different?

It sounds promising for now, but i were China I would be very concerned as the Tibetans generation today is very far removed from a spiritual background, they have influence of what other cultures and religions are doing for their causes (suicide bombing, international terrorism) all it takes is for them to just get more aggressive and they have a whole new ball game to deal with.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: WisdomBeing on April 02, 2011, 06:39:57 PM
There are high hopes for the new prime minister. I just hope it won't be like Afghanistan's prime minister, a token puppet in place to satisfy international concerns and keep the situation under wraps and control.

You don't here anything about Afghanistan anymore do you? Would this be any different?

It sounds promising for now, but i were China I would be very concerned as the Tibetans generation today is very far removed from a spiritual background, they have influence of what other cultures and religions are doing for their causes (suicide bombing, international terrorism) all it takes is for them to just get more aggressive and they have a whole new ball game to deal with.

Yes i have heard that actually the Dalai Lama is the one keeping the aggression of the Tibetan independence movement under control. So when the Dalai Lama steps down - now on the secular level and then spiritually when he passes - there is speculation that the leash on the pro-independence rebels will be released and there could be violent repercussions. Let's hope that Dorje Shugden protects Tibetans so that there are no casualties due to wrong views.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: Helena on April 02, 2011, 07:17:03 PM
This is a very interesting discussion as CHANGE is set in motion as we speak with the installation of a new Prime Minister, Lobsang Sangay.

This is what I have found about Lobsang Sangay from http://www.kalontripa.org/endorse/see-all-nominees/76.html

Lobsang Sangay la grew up in a Tibetan settlement and attended CST in Darjeeling. He completed his B.A. (Honors) and LLB from Delhi University. In 1992, he was elected as the youngest executive member of the Tibetan Youth Congress (CENTREX).

In 1996, as a Fulbright Scholar, he obtained Masters degree and in 2004, Doctorate in Law from Harvard Law School, the first Tibetan to receive this degree and his dissertation, Democracy and History of the Tibetan Government-in-Exile from 1959-2004 was awarded the Yong K. Kim' 95 Prize for Excellence. In 2005, he was granted waiver by the Department of Education to continue his academic work in the US.


Mr. Sangay is an expert on International Law, Democratic Constitutionalism, and Conflict Resolution. He has spoken in hundreds of seminars around the world and debated with renowned Chinese scholars from top universities in China and is well versed in contemporary Chinese politics and legal issues. He organized seven major conferences among Chinese, Tibetan, Indian and Western scholars including two unprecedented meeting between H.H. the Dalai Lama and Chinese scholars in 2003, and in 2009 at Harvard University.


In 2007, he was selected as one of the twenty-four Young Leaders of Asia by the Asia Society and a delegate to the World Justice Forum in Vienna, Austria, where top legal experts and judges from around the world congregate.

In 2008, he testified as an expert before the US Senate Foreign Relations Sub-committee on East Asia and Pacific Affairs, along with the United States Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte.

He regularly visits Dharamsala and interacts with Tibetan government officials at every level. He has given numerous lectures and workshops in and around Dharamsala and visited many of the Tibetan refugee settlements, monasteries and schools in India. He coordinates the Tibetan Nutritional Project aiding dozen schools in India through Sherig Lekhung.


Let us pray that Lobsang Sangay's expertise in "Democratic Constitutionalism, and Conflict Resolution" will translate into lifting the ban of Dorje Shugden and uniting the Tibetan community across the globe.

With or without regaining Tibet, all Tibetans-In-Exile should be 'guided' into the reality of the world as it really is. As long as they remain within the confines of Dharamsala and the exiled communities, they are not going to grow and develop in ways that would allow them to be independent and resourceful beyond HHDL.

As long as the Tibetans-In-Exile keep thinking and relying on one person to save them and resolve all their problems for them, they would never truly be free and independent even if they did regained Tibet. It is their mind set, more than anything else, that has been kept in exile from reality.

Ironically, because of what has transpired with the ban on Dorje Shugden and etc - all Dorje Shugden practitioners and Lamas have been forced to become independent and self-reliant. Funny enough, all DS practitioners and Lamas have learnt how to move on and are carving a place for themselves everywhere in the world. I can't say the same for those still living within the exiled community.

Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: DharmaDefender on April 03, 2011, 05:27:01 PM
This is a very interesting discussion as CHANGE is set in motion as we speak with the installation of a new Prime Minister, Lobsang Sangay.

This is what I have found about Lobsang Sangay from [url]http://www.kalontripa.org/endorse/see-all-nominees/76.html[/url]

Lobsang Sangay la grew up in a Tibetan settlement and attended CST in Darjeeling. He completed his B.A. (Honors) and LLB from Delhi University. In 1992, he was elected as the youngest executive member of the Tibetan Youth Congress (CENTREX).

In 1996, as a Fulbright Scholar, he obtained Masters degree and in 2004, Doctorate in Law from Harvard Law School, the first Tibetan to receive this degree and his dissertation, Democracy and History of the Tibetan Government-in-Exile from 1959-2004 was awarded the Yong K. Kim' 95 Prize for Excellence. In 2005, he was granted waiver by the Department of Education to continue his academic work in the US.


Mr. Sangay is an expert on International Law, Democratic Constitutionalism, and Conflict Resolution. He has spoken in hundreds of seminars around the world and debated with renowned Chinese scholars from top universities in China and is well versed in contemporary Chinese politics and legal issues. He organized seven major conferences among Chinese, Tibetan, Indian and Western scholars including two unprecedented meeting between H.H. the Dalai Lama and Chinese scholars in 2003, and in 2009 at Harvard University.


In 2007, he was selected as one of the twenty-four Young Leaders of Asia by the Asia Society and a delegate to the World Justice Forum in Vienna, Austria, where top legal experts and judges from around the world congregate.

In 2008, he testified as an expert before the US Senate Foreign Relations Sub-committee on East Asia and Pacific Affairs, along with the United States Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte.

He regularly visits Dharamsala and interacts with Tibetan government officials at every level. He has given numerous lectures and workshops in and around Dharamsala and visited many of the Tibetan refugee settlements, monasteries and schools in India. He coordinates the Tibetan Nutritional Project aiding dozen schools in India through Sherig Lekhung.



His story sounds like what many of my mates have gone through. Born in settlements, given scholarships to schools and universities, and then go off to the States to study something to do with politics or democracy or human rights.

Let's hope he makes good for the Tibetan people.

As much as I lambast the TGIE for their failure to take care of their people, I have to admit that for the privileged few, they do have access to many opportunities because a lot of nations and educational institutions sympathise with their stateless plight.

Having said that, the goodwill can't last forever, especially in the light of suppressing Dorje Shugden practitioners. Sooner or later, the TGIE is going to start losing foreign support.
There are high hopes for the new prime minister. I just hope it won't be like Afghanistan's prime minister, a token puppet in place to satisfy international concerns and keep the situation under wraps and control.

You don't here anything about Afghanistan anymore do you? Would this be any different?

It sounds promising for now, but i were China I would be very concerned as the Tibetans generation today is very far removed from a spiritual background, they have influence of what other cultures and religions are doing for their causes (suicide bombing, international terrorism) all it takes is for them to just get more aggressive and they have a whole new ball game to deal with.


Yes i have heard that actually the Dalai Lama is the one keeping the aggression of the Tibetan independence movement under control. So when the Dalai Lama steps down - now on the secular level and then spiritually when he passes - there is speculation that the leash on the pro-independence rebels will be released and there could be violent repercussions. Let's hope that Dorje Shugden protects Tibetans so that there are no casualties due to wrong views.


That's true...news like this (http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/news/tibet/1582-china-arrests-3-monks-in-tibet-heavy-restrictions-placed) has been filtering out more and more in recent times.

Since Nangpa La, there have been rumblings that groups (especially involving the youth) want a more aggressive approach towards China. It's a bit ironic since more often than not, the ones who want an aggressive approach have never stepped foot in Tibet before. Why fight for something you have never experienced or don't fully understand?

To be honest, I think the government should be more focused on keeping their people happy wherever they are, right here, right now. Makes more sense that way.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: thaimonk on April 03, 2011, 07:49:18 PM
There are groups within the Exiled Tibetan communities who wish to be more violent or more virulent in their approach to Tibetan Independence, but it is ill founded.

They are too little in number, no financial backing and no backing from any government in the world. What government will benefit from a Free Tibet? No one. Why would anyone put resources towards this? Not practical.

What everyone wants now is a stable China. If Dalai Lama passes and Tibetans try their hands at violence, it will be pure suicide and no one will come to their aid. It is better to work with the Chinese within Tibet to preserve the religion, culture and unique way of life. After all a preserved Tibetan culture will benefit China also. I do not agree with China taking over Tibet decades ago, but we have to work with the current situation and the actual circumstances. Reality is important to face now. I am sorry for the many Tibetans that have suffered, but we must work a solution that no more will suffer in the future.

Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: WisdomBeing on April 04, 2011, 07:31:20 PM
There are groups within the Exiled Tibetan communities who wish to be more violent or more virulent in their approach to Tibetan Independence, but it is ill founded.

They are too little in number, no financial backing and no backing from any government in the world. What government will benefit from a Free Tibet? No one. Why would anyone put resources towards this? Not practical.


Whenever there is a change in government or a civil war or when a nation is overtaken by another nation, there will always be sections of society who wish that things were how they used to be, not realising that everything is impermanent. These pockets of resistance become domestic terrorists who can continue for centuries and aside from causing pain and destruction to small and usually innocent sections of society, do not achieve anything for their cause. It is quite sad how much anger and bitterness people hold because they are unable to accept that things have changed.

Quote

What everyone wants now is a stable China. If Dalai Lama passes and Tibetans try their hands at violence, it will be pure suicide and no one will come to their aid. It is better to work with the Chinese within Tibet to preserve the religion, culture and unique way of life. After all a preserved Tibetan culture will benefit China also. I do not agree with China taking over Tibet decades ago, but we have to work with the current situation and the actual circumstances. Reality is important to face now. I am sorry for the many Tibetans that have suffered, but we must work a solution that no more will suffer in the future.


I agree that to work with the current situation is the best way forward. There have been so many 'protests' and support from international leaders of nations, yet there have been no results. China is too big an economic power in the world today, and sad to say, economics rule. Sometimes it is better to work with the system rather than against it in order to achieve the bigger goal of peace and harmony.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: diamond girl on April 04, 2011, 09:23:07 PM
In any change, there is hope for something better. This is no different with the stepping down of the DL and the upcoming Lobsang Sangay. Reading what Sangay has done as posted by Helena, it does no doubt raise the hopes of many who want change. I do not feel that he will resort to violence and retaliation, I doubt that they teach that in Harvard. Then again I could be wrong since wars have been started by Harvard graduates.

The biggest fear of many Tibetans is the demise of the DL despite having such a qualified and eloquent new PM. Everything they were taught that shaped their thoughts were by the DL. I feel for them as losing DL would be like losing their minds. And in this mental madness (dramatically put) violence is a possible consequence.

Let's just say that Sangay does a good job and fulfills the secular aspects, what will happen to the spiritual aspects when HHDL passes? I will not say that I am well-versed in Tibetan culture, but from what I have read, the spiritual aspect of their lives is the core of their being. I do think that this is a bigger and more grave problem.

Yes, I do see that with this development, and if the secular and religious do not mix, the DS ban will eventually be non-existent. I have a thought: for 50 years DL has kept the Tibet Cause alive despite not reaping the results, but people are still going at it. Similarly, in his Ban he has kept DS alive. Perhaps DL does work in mysterious ways and eventually everything will work out with the successful execution of the new TGIE under new leadership. I do wish and pray that this will be and no more violence and bans.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: DharmaDefender on April 05, 2011, 10:04:05 AM
There are groups within the Exiled Tibetan communities who wish to be more violent or more virulent in their approach to Tibetan Independence, but it is ill founded.

They are too little in number, no financial backing and no backing from any government in the world. What government will benefit from a Free Tibet? No one. Why would anyone put resources towards this? Not practical.

What everyone wants now is a stable China. If Dalai Lama passes and Tibetans try their hands at violence, it will be pure suicide and no one will come to their aid. It is better to work with the Chinese within Tibet to preserve the religion, culture and unique way of life. After all a preserved Tibetan culture will benefit China also. I do not agree with China taking over Tibet decades ago, but we have to work with the current situation and the actual circumstances. Reality is important to face now. I am sorry for the many Tibetans that have suffered, but we must work a solution that no more will suffer in the future.


The whole situation in Tibet is a painful reminder of attachment. Their attachment to an idea of a free land is continuing to cause them pain (just see http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Rights-group-says-Tibetan-monk-dies-after-torture-1322575.php for another reminder).

Of course the Tibetans will blame the Chinese for their inhumane treatment of the people. Whilst I don't agree with the Chinese government's methods in the slightest, I also can't help but think that the Tibetans blame everyone but themselves for their own problems. They should take a page out of the Fifth Dalai Lama's biography, and learn that apologising, forgiveness and acceptance all bring happiness because so far, their own methods haven't worked.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: WisdomBeing on April 05, 2011, 10:42:49 AM
Mr. Sangay is an expert on International Law, Democratic Constitutionalism, and Conflict Resolution. He has spoken in hundreds of seminars around the world and debated with renowned Chinese scholars from top universities in China and is well versed in contemporary Chinese politics and legal issues. He organized seven major conferences among Chinese, Tibetan, Indian and Western scholars including two unprecedented meeting between H.H. the Dalai Lama and Chinese scholars in 2003, and in 2009 at Harvard University.
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I just re-read this and thought it was interesting that Mr Lobsang Sangay, who WILL be the next Prime Minister has good relationships with the Chinese, and that he even managed to organise meetings between the Dalai Lama and Chinese scholars. Perhaps Lobsang Sangay will be the bridge to peace between Tibet and China. And since he seems to have unprecedented support in the recent elections, perhaps most Tibetans really just want to get on with life and how to live in harmony with the Chinese government. Lobsang Sangay certainly seems very qualified to take this forward.

May peace prevail everywhere.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: Mana on April 27, 2011, 10:45:28 AM
source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13205481

27 April 2011 Last updated at 07:03 GMT

Lobsang Sangay elected Tibetan exile leader

(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/sangay.jpg)
Lobsang Sangay is an Indian-born legal expert who has spent years as a Harvard University academic

A Harvard University academic has been elected prime minister of the Tibetan government-in-exile and will take on the political role previously played by the Dalai Lama.

Lobsang Sangay won 55% of the votes cast by Tibetans around the world.

He defeated two candidates for the role, Tenzin Tethong and Tashi Wangdi.

Mr Sangay must now assume the political functions of the Dalai Lama, who said in March he wanted to devolve this responsibility to an elected official.

The Dalai Lama will retain his role as Tibetan spiritual leader.

'Middle way'

The elections were held in March and the result announced on Wednesday in Dharamsala, India, where the Tibetan government-in-exile is based.

"The Election Commission of the Central Tibetan Administration of His Holiness the Dalai Lama has declared Dr Lobsang Sangay as the third kalon tripa," Election Commissioner Jampal Thosang announced, using the Tibetan term for prime minister.

Almost 83,400 Tibetan exiles were eligible to vote and more than 49,000 ballots were cast, he said.

Tenzin Tethong, a former representative of the Dalai Lama in the US, got 37.4% of the vote and Tashi Wangdi, a government-in-exile bureaucrat, received 6.4%.

The 42-year-old winner is an Indian-born legal expert who has never lived in Tibet. His father fled Tibet in 1959, the same year as the Dalai Lama.

He says he will move to Dharamsala to serve as prime minister and that he supports the Dalai Lama's stance on ties with China.

"What His Holiness stands for is the 'Middle Way', which is genuine autonomy within China or within the framework of the Chinese constitution," he told the BBC earlier this month.

"If Tibetans are granted genuine autonomy then his Holiness the Dalai Lama said he is willing to accept Tibet as part of China."

Daunting task

An official told Reuters news agency that that Dalai Lama was "very happy" that people "took a very active part in the election process".

The 76-year-old monk announced in March that he wanted an elected official to assume some of his responsibilities, saying that such a move was in the best interests of the Tibetan people.

Analysts say he aims to ensure that even if China's government tries to select the next Dalai Lama, the Tibetans will have an elected leader they can look to who is outside China and beyond the Communist Party's control.

The BBC's Mark Dummett says Lobsang Sangay has the daunting task of trying to keep the issue of Tibet alive while the man who embodies the struggle for Tibetan rights gradually steps back from the limelight.

He has been elected head of a government which no country recognises and will face in China an opponent which has shown no sign of wanting to compromise, our correspondent adds.

Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: iloveds on April 27, 2011, 11:21:15 PM
Almost 83,400 Tibetan exiles were eligible to vote and more than 49,000 ballots were cast, he said.

Tenzin Tethong, a former representative of the Dalai Lama in the US, got 37.4% of the vote and Tashi Wangdi, a government-in-exile bureaucrat, received 6.4%.

The 42-year-old winner is an Indian-born legal expert who has never lived in Tibet. His father fled Tibet in 1959, the same year as the Dalai Lama.

He says he will move to Dharamsala to serve as prime minister and that he supports the Dalai Lama's stance on ties with China.


Hat's off and congratulations to him... I come from a small town so when I saw his result I were a little skeptical. Did you know the population of Tibetans in the world is around 2.6-2.8million depending on who you want to believe. Yet of them 83,400 were eligible to vote!?@


The words sound legit, "elligible to vote" "ballots cast, of the 3 candidates xxx% was received. I can't help but feel sorry for him, his work really is cut out for him, and in a "Landslide Victory" it seems very much like there is a scramble to put somebody in and fast!

Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: DharmaDefender on May 01, 2011, 03:40:26 AM
You know what? I'm happy for him because he gets a chance; I'm happy for the Tibetans because they get a chance at having a decent goverment. I'm sad for him because he inherits such an archaic, backwards-thinking political administration.

May he find the strength and support necessary to create an open, free-thinking administration that follows world standards of human rights, politics, democracy and ethics.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: LosangKhyentse on May 01, 2011, 06:16:18 AM
His win in the elections did not please most of the Tibetan Govt people. Lobsang Sangay is very outspoken and direct. The old stalwarts in the current Tibetan Govt do not like this style. They do not like to be criticized in any way although they have failed in such a dismal manner. So it is a open dislike of him. If you visit the various Tibetan forums, they criticize Lobsang Sangay vehemently and he didn't even take office yet.

It will not be easy for the Tibetans to switch to democracy. They have no idea what real democracy really is. They have been under a Monarchy for hundreds of years. Sometimes brutal. Even till now they have made no progress in autonomy with China. China has given no concessions whatsoever. Even if after the Dalai Lama passes away and the remaining handful of Tibetans go violent, they will be crushed immediately and silenced forever. Tibetans are not very capable to run a real govt, if they were, they would not have lost their country and immersed the world in so many Tibetan Buddhist controversies such as two karmapas, Shugden ban, Panchen kidnap, Chushi Gangdruk, Serpom, Shar Gaden and so on and on.

Nevertheless it will be interesting to see how the new prime minister of Tibet's saga unfolds.

TK
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: DharmaDefender on May 02, 2011, 05:26:03 PM
His win in the elections did not please most of the Tibetan Govt people. Lobsang Sangay is very outspoken and direct. The old stalwarts in the current Tibetan Govt do not like this style. They do not like to be criticized in any way although they have failed in such a dismal manner. So it is a open dislike of him. If you visit the various Tibetan forums, they criticize Lobsang Sangay vehemently and he didn't even take office yet.

It will not be easy for the Tibetans to switch to democracy. They have no idea what real democracy really is. They have been under a Monarchy for hundreds of years. Sometimes brutal. Even till now they have made no progress in autonomy with China. China has given no concessions whatsoever. Even if after the Dalai Lama passes away and the remaining handful of Tibetans go violent, they will be crushed immediately and silenced forever. Tibetans are not very capable to run a real govt, if they were, they would not have lost their country and immersed the world in so many Tibetan Buddhist controversies such as two karmapas, Shugden ban, Panchen kidnap, Chushi Gangdruk, Serpom, Shar Gaden and so on and on.

Nevertheless it will be interesting to see how the new prime minister of Tibet's saga unfolds.

TK

That sounds so daft. Surely he was elected because he won the majority vote...but the majority don't like him? So why did they vote for him? So it really does mean they have no idea what real democracy is...they're complaining about their own choice!

Come on - even Barack had a year before the hounds closed in.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: LosangKhyentse on May 02, 2011, 11:34:18 PM
His win in the elections did not please most of the Tibetan Govt people. Lobsang Sangay is very outspoken and direct. The old stalwarts in the current Tibetan Govt do not like this style. They do not like to be criticized in any way although they have failed in such a dismal manner. So it is a open dislike of him. If you visit the various Tibetan forums, they criticize Lobsang Sangay vehemently and he didn't even take office yet.

It will not be easy for the Tibetans to switch to democracy. They have no idea what real democracy really is. They have been under a Monarchy for hundreds of years. Sometimes brutal. Even till now they have made no progress in autonomy with China. China has given no concessions whatsoever. Even if after the Dalai Lama passes away and the remaining handful of Tibetans go violent, they will be crushed immediately and silenced forever. Tibetans are not very capable to run a real govt, if they were, they would not have lost their country and immersed the world in so many Tibetan Buddhist controversies such as two karmapas, Shugden ban, Panchen kidnap, Chushi Gangdruk, Serpom, Shar Gaden and so on and on.

Nevertheless it will be interesting to see how the new prime minister of Tibet's saga unfolds.

TK

That sounds so daft. Surely he was elected because he won the majority vote...but the majority don't like him? So why did they vote for him? So it really does mean they have no idea what real democracy is...they're complaining about their own choice!

Come on - even Barack had a year before the hounds closed in.

Please read carefully what was written. The Tibetan Government people do not like him as he is outspoken against their corrupt practices and archaic methods. The majority of the common Tibetan people who voted for him, of course like him very much. Tibetan Govt people only make up a tiny majority of the total voting population.

TK
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: WisdomBeing on May 04, 2011, 11:47:12 AM
I just came across this article which says that Lobsang Sangay "will share the leadership of the Tibetan exiles with the Karmapa Lama, who will replace the Dalai Lama as the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism following his death."

This is the first I have heard of it - did Dean Nelson get his facts wrong??


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/tibet/8476717/Harvard-academic-elected-Tibets-first-non-Lama-political-leader.html

Harvard academic elected Tibet's first non-Lama political leader
A Harvard academic and law expert has been elected as Tibet's political leader, becoming the first non 'reincarnated' Lama to carry out the role.

By Dean Nelson, New Delhi 4:16PM BST 27 Apr 2011

Lobsang Sangay's election, with 55 per cent of the votes cast by Tibetans around the world, follows the Dalai Lama's announcement of his plans to retire earlier this year and his determination to avoid creating a leadership vacuum. He had feared China would exploit his future death and seek to impose a pro-Beijing leadership on Tibetan Buddhists.

The 43-year-old will be the first Tibetan 'Kalon Tripa' or prime minister to have been raised in India. According to China and Tibet analysts, he will share the leadership of the Tibetan exiles with the Karmapa Lama, who will replace the Dalai Lama as the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism following his death.

Mr Sangay was raised in Darjeeling, the former British colonial hill station, and has worked as a fellow at Harvard Law School for the last 15 years.

He is seen as a follower of the Dalai Lama's pursuit of "meaningful autonomy" for Tibet within a Chinese state, but some suspect he may have more radical ambitions as a former member of the pro-Independence Tibetan Youth Congress.

Mohan Guruswamy, director of New Delhi's Centre for Policy Alternatives, said the election of Mr Sangay and the rise of the Karmapa Lama marked a division of the two roles, both of which have until now been carried out by the Dalai Lama. It is also an attempt to counter Chinese claims that the Tibetan exiles favour a return to feudal rule by Buddhist lamas.

Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: LosangKhyentse on May 05, 2011, 12:17:15 PM
I just came across this article which says that Lobsang Sangay "will share the leadership of the Tibetan exiles with the Karmapa Lama, who will replace the Dalai Lama as the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism following his death."

This is the first I have heard of it - did Dean Nelson get his facts wrong??


[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/tibet/8476717/Harvard-academic-elected-Tibets-first-non-Lama-political-leader.html[/url]

Harvard academic elected Tibet's first non-Lama political leader
A Harvard academic and law expert has been elected as Tibet's political leader, becoming the first non 'reincarnated' Lama to carry out the role.

By Dean Nelson, New Delhi 4:16PM BST 27 Apr 2011

Lobsang Sangay's election, with 55 per cent of the votes cast by Tibetans around the world, follows the Dalai Lama's announcement of his plans to retire earlier this year and his determination to avoid creating a leadership vacuum. He had feared China would exploit his future death and seek to impose a pro-Beijing leadership on Tibetan Buddhists.

The 43-year-old will be the first Tibetan 'Kalon Tripa' or prime minister to have been raised in India. According to China and Tibet analysts, he will share the leadership of the Tibetan exiles with the Karmapa Lama, who will replace the Dalai Lama as the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism following his death.

Mr Sangay was raised in Darjeeling, the former British colonial hill station, and has worked as a fellow at Harvard Law School for the last 15 years.

He is seen as a follower of the Dalai Lama's pursuit of "meaningful autonomy" for Tibet within a Chinese state, but some suspect he may have more radical ambitions as a former member of the pro-Independence Tibetan Youth Congress.

Mohan Guruswamy, director of New Delhi's Centre for Policy Alternatives, said the election of Mr Sangay and the rise of the Karmapa Lama marked a division of the two roles, both of which have until now been carried out by the Dalai Lama. It is also an attempt to counter Chinese claims that the Tibetan exiles favour a return to feudal rule by Buddhist lamas.




This is very interesting. It can lead to a few scenarios:

1. The Dalai Lama passes away (sorry) and everything falls apart within  few years. This would seem very likely. What can be accomplished without the Dalai Lama? With the Dalai Lama's current worldwide respect, influence, celebrity-hood, contacts, and power he could still do nothing for the Tibetans in Tibet or autonomy. What is expected to be accomplished with someone so much 'lesser?' It doesn't make sense. Unless the Chinese leadership turns around completely, then perhaps there is room to appeal. Unlike the USSR (past), China has no history of granting autonomy to any minorites. China has many minorities always pining for autonomy and/or indiependence. We do not hear much in the media as they are silenced fast. In the case of independent Taiwan, China refuses any diplomatic relations claiming it is a Chinese province. Many in the world will not accept Taiwan as a sovereign nation in order not to anger China. An independent fully functioning wealthy country such as Taiwan cannot gain their 'independence' from China, what can Tibet ever hope to do.

2. It's odd why some people target the Karmapa to be the next leader after Dalai Lama. Why not Ling Rinpoche? Or Trijang Rinpoche, or Zong Rinpoche, or the next Sakya Trizin or Gaden Tripa. Why not one of the other spiritual heads such as Drukchen Rinpoche or Drigung Gyabgon, the head of the Drigung Kagyu sect?  Or any other Lama? What makes Karmapa qualified to do this? What makes any Lama qualified to take over after the Dalai Lama who was groomed for his position. It will be highly unlikely and a utopian dream that the powers of state in spiritual matters will be passed to Karmapa or any other lama. To make matters simple, no lama (besides Dalai Lama) except perhaps the Panchen Lama will have the overall respect of majority of Tibetans trascending which sect they belong to. Sectarianism irregardless of outer appearances is very strong within Tibetan society. It's just the non-Tibetans of East and West going to one lama and another claiming Rimey. Have you ever heard of Rimey lamas such as Jamyang Kyentse Chokyi Lodro giving empowerment of Lama Tsongkapa? Chokyi Lodro was supposedly the foremost Rimey lama of the last century before the fall of Tibet in 1959. Dilgo Kyentze, Dzongsar Kyentze, Beru Kyentze, etc are suppose to be direct emanations of Chokyi Lodro. Chokyi Lodro has five body emanations. Having said that, have you heard of 'Rimey' lamas such as Dzongsar Kyentze getting or giving teachings indigenous of Gelug School. Have you heard of Karmapa giving or receiving teachings indigenous of Gelug? Most likely no to both. Sakya, Nyingma and Kagyu are 'united' in their focus of Guru Rinpoche's practice and prominence. In Gelug, it is Tsongkapa, considered one with Manjushri inadvertently 'cutting' off ties to the other three schools. Complicated as it seems, it somehow worked with the Dalai Lama in power in the past. The Dalai Lama's 'mistake' was to not pass power much earlier. Not training up more people earlier. Not giving more spiritual power to the heads of the four sects of Buddhism such as Gaden Tripa to 'rule' their own schools.

3. Having two 'prime ministers' would be very strange. One heads secular and the other spiritual after the Dalai Lama? Why would the other sects follow what Karmapa wills on the spiritual level? Karmapa has no history of 'ruling' the other sects. Karmapa has no knowledge of other sects, traditions and practices. This would be highly unlikely even if he was crowned the spiritual head after Dalai Lama. From the side of the other sects, why would they follow Karmapa? They have their own spiritual heads. How can Karmapa who has no recent history of ruling Tibet by listened to be obeyed by the other sects. Filling a spiritual vacuum for the time being is one thing, looking at him as the next Dalai Lama is unlikely. Even if he is crowned spiritual head after the Dalai Lama, the 'rule' will not last long.

I stil hold strong to my thoughts, after Dalai Lama passes away, Shugden's ban will be ineffective. Many of the people practicing are in democratic countries and they will eventually not tolerate any bans. Even in Maoist China, Shugden practice is allowed and no restrictions. What more is there need to say within the Tibetan community where religious bans and marginalizations are the order of the day still. If another lama takes over the reigns from Dalai Lama and becomes the 'spiritual leader', it will be impossible for him to keep the ban in place as he will need to keep his position in place first. The ban will be the least of his concerns.

TK


Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: Mana on May 05, 2011, 02:26:01 PM
Many good thoughts posted by various people. Lots of food for thought.

Mana
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: vajrastorm on May 06, 2011, 09:55:30 AM
First of all, I think the election of Lobsang Sangay as Prime Minister of the TGIE definitely signifies the start of a split between the religious and the secular. The Dalai Lama will continue to promote the Dharma and the voice of Tibetan politics will be more that of a younger generation to which Lobsang Sangay belongs.

It is heartening to see that  Lobsang Sangay  appears to be likely to show a more conciliatory and non-aggressive approach towards China.  This is borne out by what Helena has posted about his efforts in organizing conferences among the Chinese, Tibetan as well as other scholars, as well as in organizing “two unprecedented meetings between HH the Dalai Lama and Chinese scholars ….in Harvard”. So he brings, from these efforts and other experiences( and from his studies in Harvard ), the right skills and expertise for “conflict resolution” through peaceful negotiations.

I find it difficult to understand why the current Karmapa is still being ‘touted’ as the likely successor to the Dalai Lama. There are contentious issues, like the fact that the other three schools of Tibetan Buddhism have their own Heads, to whom (as Heads of their respective Lineages) they give their wholehearted and unquestioning support, respect and devotion. Furthermore, there has been the raid on the Karmapa, in recent times; also, there is yet another contender to  the Karmapa throne and title.

The way I see it, in regard to the Dharma, the ban on Dorje Shugden will just fade away with the passing of the Dalai Lama. Tibetan politics of the TGIE will be played out on a different stage from the religious one.  I feel that Lobsang Sangay holds the card on how the political story of the future will unfold.
But he is unlikely to have much interest in the ban and its enforcement, as he will be more interested to see how he is to play his political card with China. Without the need for any further resistance or counter-resistance, Dorje Shugden’s star( as Dharma Protector of the clear and unexcelled teachings of the lineage of Lama Tsongkhapa) will  soon shine in the firmament brightly and without a single obstruction!
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: Helena on May 06, 2011, 08:01:23 PM
Very confusing indeed...

A secular Prime Minister and then a Spiritual Leader = two heads ruling over a group of people who no longer have a country?
And if we consider that recently there is a third contestant claiming to be the real 17th Karmapa as well.
The drama never ends.

Lbsang Sangay sure have his work cut out for him. I am inclined to agree that the Shugden ban will become the least of his problems. His real imminent problem will be, will there be anything to preside over as the new Prime Minister?

If I take a step back and look at all this - this is really what samsara is all about, isn't it?

We fight over nothing and we will not really gain anything in the end. We will all lose in the end. Today, we have a country. Tomorrow it is gone. Today we have a leader. Tomorrow we can't decide which is the real leader.

Without Dharma, there will be no sanity. No escape!

Without Dorje Shugden, it will be the beginning of the scariest roller coaster ride that will not end.

Good luck to the new Prime Minister. I think he may have to start praying to Dorje Shugden for some real help.





Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: WisdomBeing on May 10, 2011, 08:00:06 AM
Ok, ok so this is gossip but i couldn't resist: I read this interesting news from another forum 9http://forums2.phayul.com/forums/index.php?/topic/19760-dr-lobsang-sangay-is-a-pure-khampa/page__st__20) which says that Lobsang Sangay is a "Khampa Lithang, whose ancestors like other Lithangpas are Shugden followers but he (Lobsang Sangay) left Shugden worshipping 3 years ago so he is now clean":

Another forum participant replied, "As you said that Lobsang Sangay is Shugden follower and he left 3years ago, why too late His Holiness has requested to stop Shugden practice almost three decades. In 1996 onward His Holiness urged urgently all the Tibetan not to practice because it is bad for the cause of Tibet and if you till wish to do so then do do not come to any blessing from him. Till there is more question arises whether Lobsang Sangay has stopped the practice or he has just pretended too. And I have never hard him talking about Shugden."

This is disputed hotly by other Tibetans in this discussion but there is a video (http://youtu.be/E84KXGkNE3c) where Lobsang Sangay does declare himself to be aligned with Lithang although of course he supports HH Dalai Lama.

If Lobsang Sangay was a Shugden practitioner 3 years ago and he has either stopped or is still continuing privately - this bodes well for Shugden practice in the future. Well, I am just indulging in wishful thinking because all this is just hearsay... but if anyone else has any other news to verify this, it would be very welcome!
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: LosangKhyentse on May 10, 2011, 11:48:32 AM
Ok, ok so this is gossip but i couldn't resist: I read this interesting news from another forum 9http://forums2.phayul.com/forums/index.php?/topic/19760-dr-lobsang-sangay-is-a-pure-khampa/page__st__20) which says that Lobsang Sangay is a "Khampa Lithang, whose ancestors like other Lithangpas are Shugden followers but he (Lobsang Sangay) left Shugden worshipping 3 years ago so he is now clean":

Another forum participant replied, "As you said that Lobsang Sangay is Shugden follower and he left 3years ago, why too late His Holiness has requested to stop Shugden practice almost three decades. In 1996 onward His Holiness urged urgently all the Tibetan not to practice because it is bad for the cause of Tibet and if you till wish to do so then do do not come to any blessing from him. Till there is more question arises whether Lobsang Sangay has stopped the practice or he has just pretended too. And I have never hard him talking about Shugden."

This is disputed hotly by other Tibetans in this discussion but there is a video ([url]http://youtu.be/E84KXGkNE3c[/url]) where Lobsang Sangay does declare himself to be aligned with Lithang although of course he supports HH Dalai Lama.

If Lobsang Sangay was a Shugden practitioner 3 years ago and he has either stopped or is still continuing privately - this bodes well for Shugden practice in the future. Well, I am just indulging in wishful thinking because all this is just hearsay... but if anyone else has any other news to verify this, it would be very welcome!


Lithang is large region and has a huge population. There are many Lithang monks in Gaden, Sera and Drepung. They are Khampas and traditionally practice Shugden very strongly for hundreds of years. The freedom movement headed by Lithang Athar was the group that escorted Dalai Lama out of Tibet in 1959 risking their lives. They are called CHUSHI GANGDRUK (Four Waters and Six Mountains). This organization was very large and powerful recruiting very strong Khampa men in the thousands that fought Chinese aggression, very patriotic and very devoted to Dalai Lama. Their protector was Dorje Shugden. Everyday at sunrise, they would offer protector incense to Shugden with prayers before they did their work. They risked their lives to escort Dalai Lama out of Tibet in 1959 and many of them lost their lives with Dalai Lama and Shugden on their lips.
They were famous for their Shugden practice and commissioned Shugden pujas monthly and as when needed.

When they escorted the Dalai Lama in 1959, it took some 20 odd days, everyday before travelling, they did Shugden prayers. The young Dalai Lama was fully aware of this and participated with them. Remember, the 14th Dalai Lama has even composed a prayer to Shugden at Dromo Geshe's Monastery.

It is very suspicious of Lobsang Sangay to say he has absolved himself of Shugden three years ago when Dalai Lama had the ban in place years ago and speaking against Shugden decades ago. Khampa Tibetans have a strong reputation of being fiercely loyal. They are very devoted to their lamas, protectors and regional customs/heritage. So for Lobsang Sangay to 'suddenly' openly declare he does not practice anymore wouldn't guarantee he gave up on Shugden. It could be a shrewd poltical move.

Thousands of Tibetans have to go underground with their practice of Shugden or they will be expelled from the monasteries, their workplaces and be denied any small benefits the Tibetan Govt in exile have to offer. Something as simple as travelling outside of India for a visit to another country, you would need a stamp of approval on your travelling documents from the Tibetan Govt and if you practice Shugden they will make it very hard for you to leave India or flatly deny you. Yes, it is happening now.

In order for any foreign country to give visa to a Tibetan Exile in India, the Tibetan Govt in exile must stamp their documents prior. This is the procedure. There are many other injustices that are completely undemocratic if you openly practice Shugden. You could have studied for 18 years and ready to obtain your Geshe degree, but that will be denied if you do not renounce Shugden.

I personally believe Lobsang Sangay still has tremendous respect and faith in Shugden, but he must flow with the political climate at this time.

TK
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: WisdomBeing on May 10, 2011, 05:09:32 PM
Just to bring up a previous thread -
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1054

Beggar said "There's a new kid in town - since Samdhong Rinpoche is about to step down as the Prime Minister of the TGIE, Dr Lobsang Sangay is being primed to take over. (there are many videos of him all over YouTube, speaking on various political matters which you can check out).

I have been hearing from sources within Shar Gaden that his people have been going down to Shar Gaden and asking them to vote for this Lobsang Sangay as the new Prime Minister. "

I thought then and still now that it is interesting why they would even consider lobbying excommunicated monasteries who were Shugden practitioners.

In that same thread, Mana said "So far we have never heard him say one thing about the Shugden issue...

So...it could be a sign of better things to come for Shugden practitioners in the Tibetan community for this Dr Sangay, let's keep our finger crossed..."

Let's hope that this bodes well for the future of Dorje Shugden practice.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: vajrastorm on May 11, 2011, 09:08:03 AM
This is interesting: the fact that the newly elected Prime Minister, Dr Lobsang Sangay, is a Kampa Lithang and Kampa Lithangs have a long-standing tradition of being Dorje Shugden followers and practitioners. The plot thickens. For we are also told that Lobsang Sangay stopped worshipping Dorje Shugden three years ago.

TK has also explained how the Khampas have been strong Shugden practitioners and also how the Khampas are also members of a freedom movement that had “fought Chinese aggression” and are “very patriotic and very devoted to the Dalai Lama”. A group of them had also “risked their lives to escort Dalai Lama out of Tibet in 1959 and many lost their lives with Dalai Lama and Shugden on their lips”. 

In light of all this, it is only fair and logical  that Lobsang Sangay, a master politician and yet true son of the Kampa Lithangs, would declare that he is no longer practicing Dorje Shugden, only three years ago and many years after the Dalai Lama had started urging all to stop the Shugden practice. Whether he is practicing Shugden in private or not , we do not know. However, I believe he has raised hopes in regard to the future of Dorje Shugden practice.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: Losang_Tenpa on May 12, 2011, 04:50:25 PM


New Tibetan leader open to talks with China

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/05/12/general-as-india-tibet_8462871.html (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/05/12/general-as-india-tibet_8462871.html)
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: thaimonk on May 12, 2011, 06:43:06 PM


New Tibetan leader open to talks with China

[url]http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/05/12/general-as-india-tibet_8462871.html[/url] ([url]http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/05/12/general-as-india-tibet_8462871.html[/url])


Associated Press
New Tibetan leader open to talks with China
Associated Press, 05.12.11, 04:38 AM EDT 

NEW DELHI -- The newly elected head of the Tibetan government-in-exile says his administration will be ready to negotiate with China "anytime, anywhere."

Lobsang Sangay also told reporters in New Delhi on Thursday that his priorities as political leader of Tibetan exiles would include bringing more freedom to Tibet and seeing the Dalai Lama return to his homeland.

Nine previous rounds of talks between China and the Dalai Lama's envoys made no headway.

The 43-year-old was elected by tens of thousands of Tibetans around the world last month after the 75-year-old Dalai Lama said he wanted to devolve political authority to an elected leader.

China occupied Tibet in 1950. The Dalai Lama fled into exile in northern India in 1959.

**************************************************************

It is highly doubtful China will hold talks with the Lobsang Sangay. If China speaks to him, it would acknowledge he is the newly elected leader of the Tibetans. That would be awkward since China does not recognize Tibet as a sovereign state.

If they do not wish to speak to the Dalai Lama, why would they speak to him? He has no actual power. He will be considered clearly as a Dalai Lama puppet.

China's grip on Tibet is complete. China has the whole world agreeing with them Tibet is an inalienable part of China. Why hold talks with 'leaders' of a renegade province?

Lobsang Sangay and the Tibetan Govt is of no threat or worry to China. China is just playing the waiting game for Dalai Lama to pass to honourable fields.
 
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: DSFriend on May 13, 2011, 10:46:07 AM

It is highly doubtful China will hold talks with the Lobsang Sangay. If China speaks to him, it would acknowledge he is the newly elected leader of the Tibetans. That would be awkward since China does not recognize Tibet as a sovereign state.

If they do not wish to speak to the Dalai Lama, why would they speak to him? He has no actual power. He will be considered clearly as a Dalai Lama puppet.

China's grip on Tibet is complete. China has the whole world agreeing with them Tibet is an inalienable part of China. Why hold talks with 'leaders' of a renegade province?

Lobsang Sangay and the Tibetan Govt is of no threat or worry to China. China is just playing the waiting game for Dalai Lama to pass to honourable fields.
 

Can't agree more to the points you have clearly stated. On what terms would TGIE negotiate to get what they want?

If anything were to change, it'd be on china's terms and grace.

And if china were to change anything in regards to Tibet, it'd be something China will benefit from.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: WisdomBeing on May 13, 2011, 12:38:22 PM
Thai Monk was right. China doesn't want to talk to the new PM. It is interesting though that China says they will meet the Dalai Lama's people although the topic is limited to the Dalai Lama's future.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110513/wl_nm/us_china_tibet
China effectively rules out talks with new exiled Tibet PM

– Fri May 13, 4:50 am ET
BEIJING (Reuters) – China has effectively ruled out dialogue with the Tibetan government-in-exile's new prime minister, saying it will only meet with representatives of the Dalai Lama and will limit any talks to the Tibetan spiritual leader's future.

The remarks by Zhu Weiqun, a vice minister of the Chinese Communist Party's United Front Work Department -- which has led unsuccessful on-off talks with the Dalai Lama's envoys -- are Beijing's strongest reaction yet to the election of Harvard law scholar Lobsang Sangay as Tibet's new prime minister in exile.

In excerpts of Zhu's interview, carried on the website of the China News Service on Thursday ahead of publication in state-owned magazine "China's Tibet" this weekend, Zhu said the exiled government was an illegal group with no recognition.

"We have two basic points when it comes to contacts and negotiations. The first is that the capacity of the other side can only be as the Dalai Lama's private representatives," the article cited Zhu as saying.

"It does not matter who is the 'kalon tripa' (prime minister) of his 'government in exile', they are a splittist political clique that has betrayed the motherland. There is nothing legal about them and they have no qualifications to 'talk' with the central government's representatives," he added.

Sangay told Reuters in an interview this week that he was willing to negotiate with Beijing "anytime, anywhere," suggesting his leadership would not be significantly different from that of the Dalai Lama.

The Nobel Peace Prize-winning Dalai Lama said in March he would relinquish the four-century old tradition of political guidance in favor of a popularly elected leader by the Tibetan diaspora.

In giving up his political powers, the 75-year-old has made it more difficult for China to influence the course of the independence movement after his death, analysts say.

Zhu, whose department oversees the Party's dealings with religious organizations, said the only meaningful thing the exiled government could do was dissolve itself.

"Everyone knows what the central government's long-standing policy is: provided the Dalai Lama genuinely abandons his 'Tibet independence' stance ... we can talk about his personal future," Zhu said.

"The content of negotiations can only be about the Dalai Lama's future, or at most that of a few of his personal aides," he said.

Zhu said that he felt "regret" the Dalai Lama had "deviated from the good things he had once done for the country."

The Dalai Lama was still "the head of the political clique which seeks Tibet's independence, the loyal tool of anti-China international forces, the main source of social unrest in Tibet," Zhu added.

The Dalai Lama denies he supports either violence or Tibetan independence, insisting he seeks only true autonomy for the remote region, ruled with an iron fist by China for the last six decades.

The Tibetan government-in-exile, which sits in the northern Indian town of Dharamsala, fears China will use the thorny issue of succession to split the movement.

(Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Editing by Ken Wills and Sugita Katyal)
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: Mana on May 13, 2011, 02:08:42 PM
Lobsang Sangay ready to talk with China, but China not willing

Elected Leader, Dr. Lobsang Sangay Ready for Talks with China

source: http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/news/international/1689-elected-leader-dr-lobsang-sangay-ready-for-talks-with-china

London: - The recently elected Kalon Tripa, Dr. Lobsang Sangay told reporters in New Delhi, today that he was ready to begin talks with China "anytime, anywhere".

The newly elected head of the Tibetan government in exile also told reporters that his priorities as political leader of Tibetan exiles include bringing more freedom to Tibet and seeing the Dalai Lama return to his homeland. Lobsang stated in his acceptance message that, "His Holiness the Dalai Lama is my inspiration and I will seek to achieve the ambitious objectives he has set for us," today he added to this sentiment by once again assuring Tibetans that he will uphold His Holiness' policies.

Policies such as the ‘Middle Way Approach', which accepts Tibet within the framework of the Constitution of the Chinese Government, but seeks out a strong and genuine right to self-government (autonomy) for all the Tibetan nationalities within China. In his speech to the gathered reporters he stated categorically that, "When I take over I will implement that policy (Middle Way Approach)".

The Tibetan government in exile has attempted dialogue with the Chinese government but nine previous rounds of talks between Beijing and the Dalai Lama's envoys have made no headway. Past meeting have been seen by the international community as simply China's need to be seen as engaging the Tibetans to resolve the issue, yet not improving Tibetans' livelihood and freedom. Lobsang is adamant that such discussion will once again take place, "From our side we are willing to negotiate with the Chinese government anytime, anywhere," the 43-year-old Harvard legal scholar said.

He is hoping for a more productive and positive set of discussions rather than the stagnant nine rounds of meetings that began in 2002.

Sangay is to be sworn in on May 30 in Dharmsala but will only assume office in August when the term of the current prime minister ends.

________________________________________________________________________



China seems to rule out talks with Tibetan leader

CHRISTOPHER BODEEN, Associated Press

source: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/article/China-seems-to-rule-out-talks-with-Tibetan-leader-1377623.php

BEIJING (AP) — China appeared to rule out talks with the new head of Tibet's government-in-exile on Friday, quashing any hope of improved relations between Beijing and the new leadership.

Beijing does not recognize the government, based in India, that until recently was headed by the Dalai Lama. It has held talks with the Tibetan Buddhist leader and his representatives in the past, but nine rounds have made no headway.

Recently, though, the Dalai Lama turned over political power to an elected head of the government, Lobsang Sangay, a 43-year-old Harvard legal scholar who won April elections.

Lobsang Sangay said this week he was ready to negotiate with China "anytime, anywhere."

However, in an interview with the official "Chinese Tibet" magazine, a top official for Tibetan contacts said Beijing would only meet with personal representatives of the Dalai Lama.

"That government-in-exile of his, no matter who leads (it), it's all just a separatist political clique that betrays the motherland with no legitimacy at all and absolutely no status to engage in dialogue with the representatives of the central government," said Zhu Weiqun.

China accused the Dalai Lama — and other exiled Tibetans — of seeking independence, though the spiritual leader insists he only wants greater autonomy for the region.

Zhu did not say if China would meet with Lobsang Sangay if he were to adopt another title. Previously, China has met with officials of the exile government in their capacity as the Dalai Lama's special representatives.

Lobsang Sangay was elected last month by tens of thousands of Tibetans around the world after the 75-year-old Dalai Lama said he wanted to shift his political authority to an elected leader.

Lobsang Sangay said his government would seek genuine autonomy for Tibet under Chinese rule by following the "middle path," the Dalai Lama's policy of measured compromise.

China claims Tibet has been its territory for centuries, although many Tibetans say they were effectively independent for most of that time. The Dalai Lama fled into exile in amid an abortive uprising against Chinese rule in 1959, nine years after communist forces entered the Himalayan region.


Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: WisdomBeing on May 13, 2011, 05:32:22 PM
Lobsang Sangay says that he will uphold the Dalai Lama's policies which implies that he will uphold the ban... however, he could just be posturing for the benefit of the Dalai Lama's people... and when the Dalai Lama passes on, things could change. After all, everything is impermanent.

As for this strange phrase :
Zhu did not say if China would meet with Lobsang Sangay if he were to adopt another title. Previously, China has met with officials of the exile government in their capacity as the Dalai Lama's special representatives,

Does that imply that Lobsang Sangay could be appointed as one of the Dalai Lama's special representatives and thus be entitled to meet with the Chinese government?

Politics make my head spin - in not a good way...
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: WisdomBeing on May 17, 2011, 03:22:37 PM
So there is going to be a 15th Dalai Lama? Interesting.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2011/05/china_and_tibet

No way, Sangay

May 17th 2011, 2:13 by Banyan

AS CHINA gears up to celebrate the 60th anniversary of its annexation of Tibet, it has issued a stinging rebuff to the newly elected prime minister of the Tibetan government-in-exile, Lobsang Sangay. The winner of an election among Tibetans outside China, Mr Sangay will have a higher profile than his predecessors. The Dalai Lama, Tibet’s spiritual leader, has said he will withdraw from his political role, giving the elected leader greater prominence and responsibility.

So Mr Sangay, a 43-year-old fellow at Harvard Law School, has been visiting his electorate, most of whom are in India, and discussing his plans. He offered to negotiate with China “any time, anywhere”. China’s response came in the form of an interview in the official magazine “China’s Tibet” with Zhu Weiqun, a senior official in the Communist Party’s “United Front” department, and a frequent spokesman on Tibet.

Mr Zhu’s contempt almost splutters off the page, as he rants about “that government-in-exile of his”:  “it’s all just a separatist political clique that betrays the motherland, with no legitimacy at all and absolutely no status to engage in dialogue with the representatives of the central government.”

So that’s clear then. It would appear that the Dalai Lama’s decision to democratise his government-in-exile has made reconciliation with China even less likely. At least, under the previous dispensation, a series of fruitless talks between China and Tibetan exiles has lurched ahead every few months since 2002, usually breaking down in acrimony. Even that now seems too much to hope for.

But Robert Barnett, a Tibet expert at Columbia University in New York, points out that there is nothing new in China’s rejection of Mr Sangay’s overture. It has never had any truck whatsoever with the government-in-exile. The Tibetan side in the talks has always been filled by the Dalai Lama’s representatives. There is no reason that should not continue. Indeed, the Tibetan exile parliament, discussing a new constitution, last month approved a draft which asks the Dalai Lama and his successors, despite his retirement, to “speak on behalf of the Tibetan people, to explain and discuss their concerns and needs as well as to appoint representatives and envoys to serve the interests of the Tibetan people in any part of the world.”

By distancing himself from the exile government, the Dalai Lama has in effect met a Chinese demand. China could, if it chose, regard it as a concession. It could also look that way on the Dalai Lama’s resignation statement in March, in which he said that two pro-independence “political promulgations” he had made in the past would become “ineffective”. The Dalai Lama has long given up the demand for independence in favour of enhanced autonomy under Chinese sovereignty. China has always presented this as a tactical ruse.

China seems to hope that with the passing of this Dalai Lama, Tibetans, deprived of an internationally revered figurehead, will give up the struggle. So it may have been alarmed by the Dalai Lama’s remark at a press conference in New Jersey, America, this month, that Tibetans are close to “finalising” the process for finding his successor—his reincarnation as the 15th Dalai Lama. He said that all the schools of Tibetan Buddhism are involved in this. He seems in good health, but is now 75.

This unity among the various schools would be unprecedented—and  important, since it seems quite likely that the next incarnation of the Dalai Lama will be contested, with one candidate backed by China and one, probably in exile, revered by most Tibetans.

The Dalai Lama appears to retain the loyalty of most Tibetans inside China, too. The focus of Tibetan resistance since March has been around the Kirti monastery in an area of Sichuan province that Tibetans regard as Amdo, part of historic Tibet. Protests that started with the self-immolation of a young monk have seen hundreds of monks detained, two elderly laypeople trying to protect them killed, a continuing heavy security presence in the area, and the burning of books not approved by the authorities.

So, as it celebrates, on May 23rd, the 60th anniversary of the “17-point agreement” in which a young Dalai Lama agreed to accept Chinese sovereignty over Tibet, China can be confident that there is no immediate threat to its rule. But it knows that many Tibetans still resent its rule.

It is, for China, in some ways a peculiar document to commemorate. In it, China promised not to alter “the existing political system in Tibet”, a promise swept aside in 1959 as China crushed a Tibetan rebellion and the Dalai Lama and 80,000 followers fled into exile. In 1951, the political system was a feudal theocracy. Now that exiles enjoy the forms of parliamentary democracy, they find China no more trustworthy. China’s  leaders, for their part, find their political system no more appealing.
Title: Re: Lobsang Sangay-New Prime Minister of Tibetan Govt in Exile??
Post by: Dondrup Shugden on February 26, 2015, 05:22:07 AM
When HH Dalai Lama retired as the secular head of Tibetans in 2011, Lobsang Sangay was appointed as the Prime Minister.  There was much hope among Shugdenpas that a Harvard University graduate, obviously having lived in USA would be open minded and modern enough to respect religious freedom and human rights.

At that point hopes were high, but what is now happening does not seem to reflect any deliverance of modern thinking with CTA, being lead by a Harvard Graduation.

This set my mind into thinking, DID HH DALAI LAMA RETIRE?  Food for thoughts.  Results are the answer.