dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lineageholder on February 09, 2010, 11:29:13 AM
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On a more positive note, I really love this description of Dorje Shugden from Tharpa's new book "Meeting the Buddhas":
Everyone needs a best friend, helper and protector. Today people have a special close connection with Dorje Shugden, and he is all of these! Just as a rainbow appears from the sky, Dorje Shugden appears from the wisdom of Buddha Manjushri.
One of Dorje Shugden's main jobs is to help us to increase our wisdom and compassion, keeping these "jewels" safely in our hearts. Another is to make sure we always have the chance to practise Buddha's teachings so that we can be happy and free from pain and problems.
Dorje Shugden looks a little different than most of the Buddhas in this book. He rides a white snow lion and may show a fierce, wrathful face to scare off anything that would hurt us. Because he loves us and cherishes our spiritual practice, he protects us like a father would. His yellow robes tell us that he has taken a vow as a monk never to harm, always to help. His golden hat and sword show his wisdom. The heart he holds symbolizes his compassion. On his arm sits a mongoose that spits jewels - this reminds us that Dorje Shugden arranges perfect conditions for us to improve our spiritual practice.
Beautiful! :) Thank you, Great King Dorje Shugden for caring for us so well.
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I also love this by Song Rinpoche, which Helmut Gassner quotes in his address:
"At that conference there was another most impressive Lama from India, Zong Rinpoche,
also giving teachings and initiations. It was from him I received, together with two other people, Dorje Shugden empowerment. I had never heard of Dorje Shugden before, even though I was studying Buddhism intensively and making good progress with my Tibetan. After the empowerment, Geshe gave us some words of advice. He said, “This manifestation of the Buddha has no equal. If you are determined to tame your mind, then he will even give you his heart in order to help you.” "
from http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1069
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As milk turns to cream, this schism is churning the best of our young intelligent and brillant young people into the Cream of the Crop. Dedicated and firm in their beliefs the creativitiy rings on with post and activities that show the world that we are dedicated, organized and bent on Victory over this Murdering Dictator.
We succeed to drive home the point. Because we speak the truth not a vendetta as Dalia Lama pursues to remove Shugden from all the Universes.
I hope we can put this issue to rest while the Lama lives, . I'd rather not have to do this all over again and again.
It ends in this Lifetime not another. Say Goodbye to the Dalia Lamas, this is their last ride on the dais.
Keep shinning and show the world how calm we are as we knock this man out of the saddle.
you can by not dragging DL into this.
Song Rinpoche's words are highly inspiring and i have great respect for this master who is a reincarnation of Chandrakirti, Padampa Sangye and Milarepa because he also happens to be my dearest Guru's root Guru. After reading the description i have no more doubts about Shudgen, because Song Rinpoche said so. And at this time i really do need his help.
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It is he that jumps 'in' to the soup that he alone stirs.
Are you blind or did you think I started this?
Say what?
i love your denial. its entertaining :)
and oh has anyone seen the anti Shudgen propaganda that the Nyigmas put up? Including a modified version of Dorje Drollo stepping on Shudgen, plus a car sticker of a naked and flayed Shudgen, tied up with magic strings with a scorpion stinging his head? whats up with those? i saw them on a recent trip to nepal. anyone saw those as well? or have any info?
edit: I found a picture of it. seems to be some sort of charm that 'protects' against Shudgen. Can anyone shed some light in this?
(http://budda.net.pl/images/DudjomTersar_protection%20amulet.jpg)
The man in the image is wearing the same hat as Shudgen.
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Who are you exactly?
someone who is inspired by Shudgen looking for support. But then again my Lama has told me about the whole Shudgen issue and has pretty much educated me on the approaches, and how to not be disrespectful to DL while at it. He has gave me videos of how tibetans practicing Shudgen were prosecuted etc but at the same time, told me that it was not the Dalai Lama's idea. He also gave me a book to read, that mentioned how DL was threatened with a massacare if he did not comply with the demands of a certain group. From all these clues, i can deduce the real situation.
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Song Rinpoche's words are highly inspiring and i have great respect for this master who is a reincarnation of Chandrakirti, Padampa Sangye and Milarepa because he also happens to be my dearest Guru's root Guru. After reading the description i have no more doubts about Shudgen, because Song Rinpoche said so. And at this time i really do need his help.
In the Early 80's when Zong Rinpoche visited Manjushri Center, he told a group of students there "The Dalai Lama has lost the plot."
In case you are not familiar with english colloquy, this means "the Dalai Lama has gone completely crazy."
i love your denial. its entertaining :)
The way you pretend to be amused by those who do not agree with you makes you look unkind, and to be honest, a little insecure. It gives lie to your stated intention here, and makes it seem silly the way you criticize the speech of others. My guess is that you are a sincere person, and it seems you think you are on a mission here, so why not go ahead and be kind, the way you keep urging others to be? It will improve your chances of being heard.
Apparently your Lama has instructed you how to view the situation, and the Dalai Lama. Perhaps he knows your karma, and that it might be best for you to view things in this way. You should follow his advice. You should also realize that this advice is inappropriate for others here, for various reasons, and you might also profitably spend some time thinking about how it is possible to take strong critical public action without hating someone.
I wonder is your Lama someone who is open about his practice of Dorje Shugden, or is he practicing in secret?
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Song Rinpoche's words are highly inspiring and i have great respect for this master who is a reincarnation of Chandrakirti, Padampa Sangye and Milarepa because he also happens to be my dearest Guru's root Guru. After reading the description i have no more doubts about Shudgen, because Song Rinpoche said so. And at this time i really do need his help.
In the Early 80's when Zong Rinpoche visited Manjushri Center, he told a group of students there "The Dalai Lama has lost the plot."
In case you are not familiar with english colloquy, this means "the Dalai Lama has gone completely crazy."
i love your denial. its entertaining :)
The way you pretend to be amused by those who do not agree with you makes you look unkind, and to be honest, a little insecure. It gives lie to your stated intention here, and makes it seem silly the way you criticize the speech of others. My guess is that you are a sincere person, and it seems you think you are on a mission here, so why not go ahead and be kind, the way you keep urging others to be? It will improve your chances of being heard.
Apparently your Lama has instructed you how to view the situation, and the Dalai Lama. Perhaps he knows your karma, and that it might be best for you to view things in this way. You should follow his advice. You should also realize that this advice is inappropriate for others here, for various reasons, and you might also profitably spend some time thinking about how it is possible to take strong critical public action without hating someone.
I wonder is your Lama someone who is open about his practice of Dorje Shugden, or is he practicing in secret?
how does it make me unkind or insecure when i cannot understand the whole anti DL thing and how can it be beneficial to practicing Shudgen? does it make him help us faster if we talk about how DL suppressed his practice?
secondly, is it that him talking about DL in this way makes him secure and kind? how different is his statements or those statements about how DL is a demon etc and things like that than someone asking not to make those statements?
so making baseless attacks against me is somewhat better than me?
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It is he that jumps 'in' to the soup that he alone stirs.
Are you blind or did you think I started this?
Say what?
i love your denial. its entertaining :)
and oh has anyone seen the anti Shudgen propaganda that the Nyigmas put up? Including a modified version of Dorje Drollo stepping on Shudgen, plus a car sticker of a naked and flayed Shudgen, tied up with magic strings with a scorpion stinging his head? whats up with those? i saw them on a recent trip to nepal. anyone saw those as well? or have any info?
edit: I found a picture of it. seems to be some sort of charm that 'protects' against Shudgen. Can anyone shed some light in this?
([url]http://budda.net.pl/images/DudjomTersar_protection%20amulet.jpg[/url])
The man in the image is wearing the same hat as Shudgen.
All I know is that the image is supposedly an amulet averting gyalpo demons from the Dudjom Tersar Lineage.
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It is he that jumps 'in' to the soup that he alone stirs.
Are you blind or did you think I started this?
Say what?
i love your denial. its entertaining :)
and oh has anyone seen the anti Shudgen propaganda that the Nyigmas put up? Including a modified version of Dorje Drollo stepping on Shudgen, plus a car sticker of a naked and flayed Shudgen, tied up with magic strings with a scorpion stinging his head? whats up with those? i saw them on a recent trip to nepal. anyone saw those as well? or have any info?
edit: I found a picture of it. seems to be some sort of charm that 'protects' against Shudgen. Can anyone shed some light in this?
([url]http://budda.net.pl/images/DudjomTersar_protection%20amulet.jpg[/url])
The man in the image is wearing the same hat as Shudgen.
All I know is that the image is supposedly an amulet averting gyalpo demons from the Dudjom Tersar Lineage.
ah thanks but do all gyalpos wear a hat or just this one? just to clarify
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how does it make me unkind or insecure when i cannot understand the whole anti DL thing and how can it be beneficial to practicing Shudgen?
I agree that you do not seem to understand the issue, but this does not at all make you unkind. I was referring to your tone, which seems to me to be condescending. It is the internet, after all, so of course I could be wrong, misreading your tone. But it seems to pop up in post after post. Please excuse me if I am incorrect.
does it make him help us faster if we talk about how DL suppressed his practice?
No, Dorje Shugden is already helping us as fast as we are able to be helped. The point of the demonstrations and the book is entirely other.
secondly, is it that him talking about DL in this way makes him secure and kind? how different is his statements or those statements about how DL is a demon etc and things like that than someone asking not to make those statements?
This is a rather sudden turnaround, from "I have great respect, the reincarnation of Chandra and Mila, my guru's guru..." indeed.
Of course, no one knows Zong Rinpoche's mind other than himself and the enlightened beings, but I feel confident that he was both secure and kind. Do you think his statements indicate he is anything other? That is how you tend to respond here, calling "hate" and "anger" every time you see a view that deviates from the current undigestible nonsense of "DL is spreading the DS practice." I really do think this is something one might hope to be true so that one can keep imagining that samsara is just a cosy pair of bunny-print pyjamas. In truth, Zong Lama was just fearless, and he said what he thought. This was a well known attribute of ZR.
How different are his words from words about DL?
1. There was no political motivation in his speech
2. He didn't repeat it in public over and over in public and advise that DL be banned.
3. He didn't use political power to enforce his beliefs where he had no right and no authority to do so, damaging the spiritual life of thousands and thousands.
I myself do not go in for saying that the Dalai Lama is a demon, so I would be careful in that regard. I am, however, very comfortable saying he is a liar, etc. because this is true, and easily verified.
For you to ask others not to make these statements, that is just fine, as long as you are prepared to be resoundingly ignored. As you are powerless to enforce your views, your speech and the DL's speech are very different. So of course you are free to say what you like.
I am not complaining about this, other than finding the point of view you subscribe to uninteresting, a product of that heady mix religious/politics the Tibetan religion is coming to be known for.
What I was remarking on is how condescending you can seem in your tone, and trying perhaps to make you aware of how you are coming across. I am an outspoken type of person, and don't bite my tongue. Perhaps I am being a real jerk as well.
so making baseless attacks against me is somewhat better than me?
Sorry if you perceived my words as attacks on you, I was trying to point out how your words seem, I am sure you are a perfectly decent person. Moreover, I am quite convinced I am not better than you.
good luck!
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how does it make me unkind or insecure when i cannot understand the whole anti DL thing and how can it be beneficial to practicing Shudgen?
I agree that you do not seem to understand the issue, but this does not at all make you unkind. I was referring to your tone, which seems to me to be condescending. It is the internet, after all, so of course I could be wrong, misreading your tone. But it seems to pop up in post after post. Please excuse me if I am incorrect.
does it make him help us faster if we talk about how DL suppressed his practice?
No, Dorje Shugden is already helping us as fast as we are able to be helped. The point of the demonstrations and the book is entirely other.
secondly, is it that him talking about DL in this way makes him secure and kind? how different is his statements or those statements about how DL is a demon etc and things like that than someone asking not to make those statements?
<--i was referring to your statement saying that by saying i was unkind by asking Lhakpa to not drag DL into it. Not Zong Rinpoche. It's impossible for him to make callous statements because he already knows what to say and what not to say :)
This is a rather sudden turnaround, from "I have great respect, the reincarnation of Chandra and Mila, my guru's guru..." indeed.
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Of course, no one knows Zong Rinpoche's mind other than himself and the enlightened beings, but I feel confident that he was both secure and kind. Do you think his statements indicate he is anything other? That is how you tend to respond here, calling "hate" and "anger" every time you see a view that deviates from the current undigestible nonsense of "DL is spreading the DS practice." I really do think this is something one might hope to be true so that one can keep imagining that samsara is just a cosy pair of bunny-print pyjamas. In truth, Zong Lama was just fearless, and he said what he thought. This was a well known attribute of ZR.
How different are his words from words about DL?
1. There was no political motivation in his speech
2. He didn't repeat it in public over and over in public and advise that DL be banned.
3. He didn't use political power to enforce his beliefs where he had no right and no authority to do so, damaging the spiritual life of thousands and thousands.
I myself do not go in for saying that the Dalai Lama is a demon, so I would be careful in that regard. I am, however, very comfortable saying he is a liar, etc. because this is true, and easily verified.
For you to ask others not to make these statements, that is just fine, as long as you are prepared to be resoundingly ignored. As you are powerless to enforce your views, your speech and the DL's speech are very different. So of course you are free to say what you like.
I am not complaining about this, other than finding the point of view you subscribe to uninteresting, a product of that heady mix religious/politics the Tibetan religion is coming to be known for.
What I was remarking on is how condescending you can seem in your tone, and trying perhaps to make you aware of how you are coming across. I am an outspoken type of person, and don't bite my tongue. Perhaps I am being a real jerk as well.
so making baseless attacks against me is somewhat better than me?
Sorry if you perceived my words as attacks on you, I was trying to point out how your words seem, I am sure you are a perfectly decent person. Moreover, I am quite convinced I am not better than you.
good luck!
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I don't really want to get into the big debates going on here as it seems rather tiresome. Let's go back to the original thread which is positive and yes, inspiring!
thank you for posting that description. i've always loved studying iconography of statues and the profound meanings that they represent, which can bring so much to our own contemplate and practice. i'd also like to recommend the nice descriptions on the wisdombuddhadorjeshugden website about
- the nature of Dorje Shugden (http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org/dorjeshugden-nature.php)
- benefits of relying on Dorje Shugden (http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org/dorjeshugden-benefits.php)
- the way to rely upon Dorje Shugden (http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org/dorjeshugden-rely.php)
I've found these to be quite useful and hope it'll be of some benefit to your practices!
PS it would be good to have something like this on this website also - i.e. to give more information about DS and his practice etc. Would anyone know anyone from the wisdombuddhadorjeshugden website and do you think they'd mind sharing info? ;D
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Sssh! This is a Secret Practice and not too much can be just give away on a public forum.
Perhaps honeydakini didn't mean the actual practice, but perhaps different interpretations or analysis of information about him...for example his prayers which are available on this website, to inspire confidence in Dorje Shugden. I've recently been having a conversation on Phayul whereby someone keeps referring to the heart that Dorje Shugden holds, and blood and human skins, saying that all of that shows how evil DS is. Of course, that person is refusing to see the symbology...but for people like us who DO want to know, how much info / analysis is there about his iconography, that's written in clear laymen's terms?
I know people who enjoy discussion of prayers because many people just recite them (DS-related or not) without contemplating their meaning. It wouldn't be wrong to analyse verses already available on the website, would it? Those verses aren't very secret! :)
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okay since we have this thread about the description can we start one of those new threads where we talk about the iconography of DS image. I think the noobs like myself would like to learn more about the symbology of DS.
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I find this description very true. Dorje Shugden is indeed the compassionate and great Dharma protector that he had promised to be. Sadly,there are those who disagree with the fact and stir up unpeaceful acts. The people who disagree often say false and baseless things.
If the CTA really wants to criticize the Shugdeners they should find a real reason with a solid base, not just make up stories.
I really hope that the CTA will stop mistreating Shugdeners and make peace with Dorje Shugden.
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I love the description of Protector Dorje Shugden too! And I totally agree that he is the very best friend one could ever have in our secular life and most of all, in our spiritual life. Always covering our backs and preparing us as we walk the path towards attainments, his compassion is tireless and endless. How wonderful that we have the merits to recognise his Buddha self and not the ignorance of claiming him a "spirit". May the illogical ban on this wonderful enlightened Protector be swiftly lifted and more to be able to benefit from his practise.
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Yes I love this description too. Dorje Shugden is truly our best friend, helper and protector and we are so blessed to have close connection with Hm. Dorje Shugden not only helps us in our secular life but also our spiritual life; we are very fortunate to have his guidance and protection.
I hope the Dalai Lama will lift the ban on Dorje Shugden so that more people can benefit from this practice.
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I love this description of Dorje Shugden. Not just beautiful words, but deep within lies a promise to care for us until we achieve enlightenment. I believe it's Dorje Shugden's boundless compassion to appear to us in this form which is so similar to ourselves so that we could all connect with him easily.
The illogical ban on Shugden practice have taken too long and many people have suffered badly. I am in agreement with many millions of people everywhere requesting His Holiness the Dalai Lama to lift the ban on Dorje Shugden. Please grant us the freedom to practice the religion of our choice.
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Everyone needs a best friend, helper and protector. Today people have a special close connection with Dorje Shugden, and he is all of these! Just as a rainbow appears from the sky, Dorje Shugden appears from the wisdom of Buddha Manjushri.
One of Dorje Shugden's main jobs is to help us to increase our wisdom and compassion, keeping these "jewels" safely in our hearts. Another is to make sure we always have the chance to practise Buddha's teachings so that we can be happy and free from pain and problems.
Dorje Shugden looks a little different than most of the Buddhas in this book. He rides a white snow lion and may show a fierce, wrathful face to scare off anything that would hurt us. Because he loves us and cherishes our spiritual practice, he protects us like a father would. His yellow robes tell us that he has taken a vow as a monk never to harm, always to help. His golden hat and sword show his wisdom. The heart he holds symbolizes his compassion. On his arm sits a mongoose that spits jewels - this reminds us that Dorje Shugden arranges perfect conditions for us to improve our spiritual practice.
Indeed, this is a beautiful quote and I wish that this endless ban comes down swiftly so that He can protect more beings! Thanks for sharing!
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Beautiful description of Dorje Shugden. The iconography is a teaching in itself. I especially like the description of compassion and wisdom as a jewel to keep safely in our hearts.
For many of us in this era, it is very hard to connect with the older Protectors. Even to connect with Dorje Shugden himself already is difficult. To obtain the merits and good karma to connect with Dorje Shugden is difficult. Is that why we have to suffer for the practice? That we have to purify something in order to continue to receive the practice?
May the ban be lifted soon and that we may purify our negative karma in a different way now that, due to the ban, the practice has been introduced to thousands more.