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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: LosangKhyentse on June 13, 2010, 11:04:29 AM

Title: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: LosangKhyentse on June 13, 2010, 11:04:29 AM: Please see this wonderful blog post. Thank you to some of the forum goers who introduced me to this wonderful blog site. I like this post very much. Short and penetrating:

http://blog.tsemtulku.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/2010/06/stephen-hawking-on-religion-science-will-win-.html#tp

TK :)
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: thaimonk on June 13, 2010, 03:15:13 PM: In the video Stephen Hawking said "Religion is based on authority, Science is based on observation and reason. Science will win, because it works."

Well, in Buddhism there is no authority until it comes to Dorje Shugden issue...and Dorje Shugden will win, because it works too!
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: LosangKhyentse on June 13, 2010, 03:46:34 PM: Quote from: thaimonk on June 13, 2010, 03:15:13 PM
In the video Stephen Hawking said "Religion is based on authority, Science is based on observation and reason. Science will win, because it works."

Well, in Buddhism there is no authority until it comes to Dorje Shugden issue...and Dorje Shugden will win, because it works too!

Dear thaimonk,

VERY WELL SAID. VERY WELL SAID. VERY WELL DONE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

TK
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: Zach on June 13, 2010, 04:16:44 PM: It can be said there is no creator god, As it is not logical in accordence with the Impermenance and so forth or Dependent relationship of Phenomena.

:)
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: Lineageholder on June 13, 2010, 04:20:47 PM: I love this short and penetrating logical refutation of God by Epicurus:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

- Epicurus - Greek philosopher, BC 341-270
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: LosangKhyentse on June 13, 2010, 04:28:31 PM: Quote from: Lineageholder on June 13, 2010, 04:20:47 PM
I love this short and penetrating logical refutation of God by Epicurus:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

- Epicurus - Greek philosopher, BC 341-270

EXCELLENT!! CLEAR AND LOGICAL!! THANK YOU!

Tk
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: DSFriend on June 13, 2010, 08:10:30 PM: Many years back, I had a conversation with a genius friend (specialized in mathematical physics) regarding creation. I was a Christian at that time and was very curious as to what science has to say about this topic. He said science came about primarily from observing phenomena. Scientific theories are formulated based on observation. From observation, science attempts to "recreate" the observed phenomena to proof hypothesis and theories.

I remember clearly when he said, that science cannot directly proof or explain that which cannot be observed. It can only DOCUMENT the phenomena as it unfolds before our naked eyes. In line with what Steven Hawking said,..."science is based on observation and reason.."

I felt really troubled after that conversation because I felt that science couldn't provide the answers i was looking for,..what about the many more phenomenon which our naked eyes cannot observe like existence of life forms, multiplication of atoms in vacuum space etc..

My mind found much rest in Buddhism as it goes beyond just observing phenomenon/effects. It presents much on what brought the effects about..the causes. I still do love science for its' advance observation methods which has been instrumental in promoting the unmistaken Buddhist teachings among many other contributions.

Perhaps one day, Science will be able to answer our beloved Steven Hawking's question, "why there is something rather than nothing"...

May Steve Hawking, all great minds of the sciences and spiritual masters live long and their works to flourish to benefit all.

DSFriend
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: icy on June 14, 2010, 02:40:20 AM: Quote from: thaimonk on June 13, 2010, 03:15:13 PM
In the video Stephen Hawking said "Religion is based on authority, Science is based on observation and reason. Science will win, because it works."

Well, in Buddhism there is no authority until it comes to Dorje Shugden issue...and Dorje Shugden will win, because it works too!

Thaimonk, you are full of wisdom. :)

icy
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: triesa on June 14, 2010, 05:47:45 AM: Quote from: Lineageholder on June 13, 2010, 04:20:47 PM
I love this short and penetrating logical refutation of God by Epicurus:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

- Epicurus - Greek philosopher, BC 341-270

Dear Lineageholder

I love this quote. Simple yet penetrating. Sometimes I can't stand my friends saying, "There is a God and God will know if we are good or bad.....". Indirectly, this is a way of saying, watch out for your "Karma".

Triesa
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: pgdharma on June 14, 2010, 09:00:40 AM: Quote from: thaimonk on June 13, 2010, 03:15:13 PM
In the video Stephen Hawking said "Religion is based on authority, Science is based on observation and reason. Science will win, because it works."

Well, in Buddhism there is no authority until it comes to Dorje Shugden issue...and Dorje Shugden will win, because it works too!

For me, Religion is based on faith and trust and Dorje Shugden will win, because it works!

pgdharma
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: WisdomBeing on June 15, 2010, 02:18:46 PM: i remember at school, we used to say - if God is all powerful, can he create a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: Middleway on June 15, 2010, 10:38:06 PM: Quote from: WisdomBeing on June 15, 2010, 02:18:46 PM
i remember at school, we used to say - if God is all powerful, can he create a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?

love it!
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: DharmaDefender on June 17, 2010, 08:07:58 PM: Quote from: triesa on June 14, 2010, 05:47:45 AM
Quote from: Lineageholder on June 13, 2010, 04:20:47 PM
I love this short and penetrating logical refutation of God by Epicurus:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

- Epicurus - Greek philosopher, BC 341-270

Dear Lineageholder

I love this quote. Simple yet penetrating. Sometimes I can't stand my friends saying, "There is a God and God will know if we are good or bad.....". Indirectly, this is a way of saying, watch out for your "Karma".

Triesa

They make God sound like Santa Claus...!
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: icy on June 20, 2010, 01:52:49 AM: God is in thyself. Isn't this more appropriate?

icy
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: jingang on June 23, 2010, 12:34:04 AM: I have many friends who have became Christians because it is a religion that preaches God's love and I do think everybody needs love and care, hence it is easy to accept.

Many of them always asked me this question, how do you explain the beginning of the world then? And because I failed to give them an explanation, I always feel that I have failed as a Buddhist. The "No beginning, no end" that his Holiness said in reply to the "beginning" of the world/universe is also very difficult to fathom.

Anyone has any idea as a good point to explain or put it in simple way to negate the point?
Title: Re: god doesnt exist says Hawking~~Interesting
Post by: Middleway on June 23, 2010, 08:10:31 AM: Quote from: jingang on June 23, 2010, 12:34:04 AM
I have many friends who have became Christians because it is a religion that preaches God's love and I do think everybody needs love and care, hence it is easy to accept.

Many of them always asked me this question, how do you explain the beginning of the world then? And because I failed to give them an explanation, I always feel that I have failed as a Buddhist. The "No beginning, no end" that his Holiness said in reply to the "beginning" of the world/universe is also very difficult to fathom.

Anyone has any idea as a good point to explain or put it in simple way to negate the point?

The onus is really on them to prove how there could be an absolute beginning, not the other way around. There is no beginning to time because there is no beginning to mind. The whole of existence is just an appearance to mind - mind is the creator. The primary cause of mind is the previous moment of mind. Mind is an impermanent phenomenon & impermanent phenomenon depend upon causation - hence there is an endless series of previous moments of mind. That 'seems' impossible if we don't have some grasp of ultimate truth, but that doesn't excuse people who instinctively deny the idea from providing a logically coherent reason why it is not so. They can try but they will fail as they try & point at reasons which require inherent existence as part of their make up - such as an inherently existent creator. The beginning-less time thing is great because it starkly shows just how wrong our basic premise about the nature of reality is. If people don't want to face up to that that's their choice.