Author Topic: Disturbing & Encouraging News  (Read 23487 times)

Helena

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2011, 10:13:18 AM »
Well, that is precisely why they just have to blame it all one someone...in this case, Dorje Shugden.

Now, we are beginning to see the real results - which group is falling apart and its existence is in danger of completely diminishing, and what group is growing and becoming stronger.

The end is near for TGIE.
Helena

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2011, 04:09:47 AM »
The Tibetan govt never learns it's lessons. You already lost your country which is a huge embarrassing shame. And cannot get it back, double shame. Now you create religious discord within your own communities. Even the Chinese are allowing Tibetans to practice whatever sect they choose in Tibet. It's ironic. For religious freedom, looks like the Tibetans should return to Tibet. At least under the Chinese govt you can practice whatever form of Buddhism you wish.

TK

I have NOT come across any articles or watched any videos of Tibetan refugees in India expressing how happy they are nor have what they expected to, which was to be close to the Dalai Lama and to be able to freely practice.

What's the point of risking their lives and taking the arduous and dangerous journey over the great mountains? Where is the religious freedom? It is sad, a lost cost. They are separated from their families...all for what? I'm sorry, but it seems like a mirage in the desert.

TK, IF i was a Tibetan refugee in India, more than likely i would have returned to Tibet!

The comforting thought is that China, the fast growing giant has taken in Dorje Shugden!

I agree. If I was a Tibetan refugee in India, I would either get myself back to Tibet or get to a foreign country and far far far away from the TGIE. 

Precisely many Tibetans have purchased their visas for Indian Rupees 700,000 (US$22,000) in Delhi. There are 'agents' set up in Delhi who are getting wealthy. They have special connections and can get Tibetans special visas to enter the US and stay within a year or sooner. Many Tibetans have left India using this and once they get to the US they apply for their green card.

Many Tibetans living in for example New York City are washing dishes, working as nannies, cooking in resteraunts, or busboys. Some are delivery boys for Pizza places. Anything to get away from India. Many have left due to relgious persecution and more have left because TGIE has been ineffective in creating jobs to support the Tibetans in India. Livelihood is very difficult. 

Dalai Lama is aging. More and more will leave for fear of the aftermath of his death and their lives in India.

TK

vajrastorm

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2011, 08:44:38 AM »
Yes, the news of the two great Lamas being so callously treated is most disturbing and appalling. Yet, I agree with Jessicajameson that it’s got the makings of an illusory drama.

It’s making not only Tibetan refugees in India wonder, but interested people everywhere else also, why the practice of Tibetan Buddhism (in the other parts of the world) under the Dalai Lama is experiencing such great schism and repression , whereas in China, not only is the practice of the pure Gelugpa lineage of Je Tsongkapa (with its Dharmapala Dorje Shugden) being 'strongly encouraged', but the other three lineages are also being allowed to be practiced freely there too.

Indeed, the more these stories are being circulated, the more people are going to be looking towards the Shar Gaden and Serpom Monasteries in India, and other Dorje Shugden monasteries elsewhere in the world to preserve and spread the Dharma of the pure Gelugpa lineage as the hope for Liberation and Enlightenment for people of this age.

DSFriend

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2011, 11:44:07 AM »
TK
This is news to me about the visas and how the Tibetans are in desperation just to leave India, not knowing where life will take them and settling for anything just to make ends meet. How sad! What a fragmented society...
I suppose this is what the laypeople will do

And just like what Vajrastorm observed, ordained sangha members who are excommunicated/expelled/ leave their original monastery for Serpom, Shar Gaden.

As the saying goes, when one door closes, many, many other doors will open...

Helena

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2011, 01:58:41 AM »
Hey DS, I love what you wrote - when one door closes, many, many doors will open.

Let's create the causes for many more doors to open and for Dorje Shugden to really grow and spread even more.

In whatever we do - be it just talking or explaining to a new friend about Dorje Shugden or distributing brochures, whether we tweet, blog or put it in our Facebook or create websites and Forums - everything helps a great deal.

When our efforts are combined as such - all over the world - imagine the impact.

How beautiful is that!

We are benefiting so so many people in this way, bringing Dorje Shugden into their lives.
Helena

jessicajameson

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2011, 09:19:37 PM »

Many Tibetans living in for example New York City are washing dishes, working as nannies, cooking in resteraunts, or busboys. Some are delivery boys for Pizza places. Anything to get away from India. Many have left due to relgious persecution and more have left because TGIE has been ineffective in creating jobs to support the Tibetans in India. Livelihood is very difficult. 

Dalai Lama is aging. More and more will leave for fear of the aftermath of his death and their lives in India.

TK

It's so sad, how the TGIE is the government for Tibet - Tibet is the heart of Buddhism (to many) - TGIE represents HHDL by representing His country - The country that TGIE represents, represents Buddhism.

Yet they cannot care enough about their people to concentrate their limited resources and energy towards where things matter.

They don't care enough to make changes where things matter to their own people.

Can't they create jobs instead of sticking their noses into places where they create more harm than good?

Can't they try to provide their own people with better lives, instead of wasting their time and money printing out hate posters all over a country that's not even theirs.

So much for practicing compassion.
 

thaimonk

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2011, 11:29:41 AM »
Just because they are Tibetans does not mean they understand Buddhism let alone practice. Many Tibetans are very ignorant and know very little of Buddhism. I have met one Tibetan Buddhist monk who didn't know what Tara looked like! I kid you not.

Most lay Tibetans are more concerned on how to make enough money to live the good life. They just follow along govt policies because they have no choice and do not know any better. Nor do most of them care. They all know after the Dalai Lama passes, it's the end. Now that is why you see the mad scramble of many of them trying to immigrate to other countries out of India, Nepal and Bhutan.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2011, 06:06:01 PM »
Just because they are Tibetans does not mean they understand Buddhism let alone practice. Many Tibetans are very ignorant and know very little of Buddhism. I have met one Tibetan Buddhist monk who didn't know what Tara looked like! I kid you not.

Most lay Tibetans are more concerned on how to make enough money to live the good life. They just follow along govt policies because they have no choice and do not know any better. Nor do most of them care. They all know after the Dalai Lama passes, it's the end. Now that is why you see the mad scramble of many of them trying to immigrate to other countries out of India, Nepal and Bhutan.

I guess that is simply samsara. I'm quite amazed at the Tibetan monk who didn't know what Tara looked like! I can imagine lay Tibetans not being familiar with Buddhist deities but a monk? Gosh.

For the pure Buddhist teachings to spread to other countries, i guess Tibet had to be invaded so the Lamas would travel to all corners of the world and the Dalai Lama would become the international 'celebrity' and icon of Buddhism that he has turned into. I wonder what would have happened if Tibet had NOT been invaded. What would the world's Buddhist landscape be like. Would Dorje Shugden practice be banned? After all, there would be no threat to Tibet's independence then. Interesting.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2011, 05:02:37 AM »
Just because they are Tibetans does not mean they understand Buddhism let alone practice. Many Tibetans are very ignorant and know very little of Buddhism. I have met one Tibetan Buddhist monk who didn't know what Tara looked like! I kid you not.

Most lay Tibetans are more concerned on how to make enough money to live the good life. They just follow along govt policies because they have no choice and do not know any better. Nor do most of them care. They all know after the Dalai Lama passes, it's the end. Now that is why you see the mad scramble of many of them trying to immigrate to other countries out of India, Nepal and Bhutan.

I guess that is simply samsara. I'm quite amazed at the Tibetan monk who didn't know what Tara looked like! I can imagine lay Tibetans not being familiar with Buddhist deities but a monk? Gosh.

For the pure Buddhist teachings to spread to other countries, i guess Tibet had to be invaded so the Lamas would travel to all corners of the world and the Dalai Lama would become the international 'celebrity' and icon of Buddhism that he has turned into. I wonder what would have happened if Tibet had NOT been invaded. What would the world's Buddhist landscape be like. Would Dorje Shugden practice be banned? After all, there would be no threat to Tibet's independence then. Interesting.

Wisdom Being, I like your thoughts and hypotheticals.
I believe if Tibet was not invaded, the dharma would still spread but much slower and not as mainstream. The Tibetan govt are a very closed group of ppl in the past. In the early 1900 before the invasion they banned most of the foreigners who wished to visit Tibet. They refused diplomatice ties with many. A few like Anagarika Govinda and Alexandra David Neel had to disguise their way in. Stayed undercover throughout their whole journey in Tibet. A few also did get permission but not many. Tibetans and especially the then Tibetan govt were very xenophobic.

The Tibetan govt are open now and welcome any diplomatic ties and connections to the rich, big and famous because they need financial and diplomatic support. Because of their mishandling of their country, they lost it. It's been embarrassing for them to have no headway in their negotiations with China. China is smarter than anticipated by the Tibetans.

Most likely Shugden's practice would not have been banned as there is no reason for the ban. If Tibet was not invaded, Dalai Lama would have full power of authority with no dissension therefore no need to ban Shugden. Shugden has been banned for partially political reasons and then of course the spiritual reason. Shugden is blamed for all the mishaps that occur within the exiled Tibetan community as illogical to karma as it sounds. Shugden is blamed for not gaining headway with China Talks. Shugden is even blamed for potentially threatening the long life of Dalai Lama. In short, Shugden is a 'great' scapegoat.* Trijang Rinpoche already predicted the obstacles that would arise and how Dalai Lama and Shugden would work hand in hand to make the practice enormous in the world. Trijang Rinpoche clearly said, it may not appear Dalai Lama is helping Shugden practice to grow, but it is only appearance. All the pro and anti Dalai Lama/Shugden sentiments are only temporary.

2,000 years ago Christians were fed to the lions for five hundred years and accepted as the correct thing to do among the Romans. Well now Christianity is a dominant force. Likewise who knew the persecution against the early Christians would fuel the underground Christian movement of those times and make Christianity what it is today. Similarily, the persecution Shugdenpas feel today by the Dalai Lama is all part of the plan. The protests, Geshe Kelsang's stance, Trijang Rinpoche's volume on Shugden, this website, many other websites, Tibetan Govt's childish behaviour, etc etc are all part of the grand scheme of things. A few decades later, a few hundred years later all this will be forgotten and Shugden's practice prevails.

TK

*just imagine the rise of Nazi's are blamed on Mother Mary. The death of Martin Luther King is blamed on his guardian angels. Or Gandhi's death is blamed on Shiva' lack of protection. Nelson Mandela's two decade imprisonment is St Michael's fault. Imagine if all world leaders blame mishaps and potential/actual assasinations as the fault of mystical non-physical entities as does the superstitious-minded Tibetan govt. Why would Dalai Lama attribute problems within the Tibetan community as arising from Shugden and the peasant Tibetans believe it?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 03:57:01 AM by Mana »

Helena

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2011, 04:21:30 PM »
Very profound and thought provoking points set forth by TK and WB.

Thank you both. It has given me a lot to think about.

When TK puts it as the monk who does not even know what Tara looks like - it reminds me of something my Guru said - that the real Dharma will disappear in the future. There may be temples or centers but there will be no real practice of Dharma. That is how Dharma will die.

Come to think of it - what we have witnessed of Tibet's history or journey is similar to the statement above.

The whole country may be Buddhists and have many temples and centers but not every one is really practising any real Dharma. They seem to revere more than practice. And when we revere - it is usually something kept at a distance, not incorporated into our daily lives. Therefore, it is not part of us but more like something outside of us.

If this is so, then definitely Dharma would have been dying in Tibet. Or at least, starting its demise.

If China did not invade Tibet - Dharma would not have flourished and here, I mean real practising Dharma - not just pray and adhere to some spiritual monastic rules and policies. I mean, the Dharma that lives inside of us.

This is why Dorje Shugden is needed more than ever - Dorje Shugden is the Protector of real Dharma. Dorje Shugden would never allow Dharma to die, not on HIS watch. This, I firmly and truly believe.

After Tibetan Buddhism have broken out into the world - the real practitioners of Dharma seem to be all those living outside of Tibet. Westerners and Easterners alike - the newly "baptised" Tibetan Buddhists are more concerned with making Dharma part of their everyday lives, if not incorporating into every aspect of their lives period.

After studying Dharma and having a Guru for so many years, I have come to the conclusion that Dharma is not some dry dead intellectual or even academic pursuit. It is not even really a religion - to be just propitiated and revered on a pedestal.

Dharma is to be lived, experienced, learnt and then it evolves with us as we grow and evolve as well.

With the way things have turned out, I can see how great attained and Enlightened Beings will work and have worked to bring Dharma to everyone. Literally, to bring Dharma onto every door step and to help individuals become real Dharma practitioners. How else can anyone achieve Enlightenment? It is certainly not accomplished through just praying and lighting incense and revering spiritual leaders.
 
The transformation within has to take place...then that's real Dharma in action. 
Helena

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2011, 07:32:50 PM »
RECENT NEWS:

After Gaden Jangtze Monastery expelled their own Gyurme Kensur Geshe Chatee from their monastery in order to please the Dalai Lama in such haste, they had an after thought. After the Dalai Lama finished his stay in Gaden and the dust settled, Gaden Jangtze monks had a meeting and regretted the expulsion of this great lama and master. Many in Jangtze have received teachings from him. But what is done is done. Regrets and broken samaya is the lot of the day for them who commit actions for political ends. They expelled one of their great teachers just to look clean and Shugden free. But what they ended up on the table with is much worse-broken samaya.

TK

WoselTenzin

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2011, 02:59:01 AM »
RECENT NEWS:

After Gaden Jangtze Monastery expelled their own Gyurme Kensur Geshe Chatee from their monastery in order to please the Dalai Lama in such haste, they had an after thought. After the Dalai Lama finished his stay in Gaden and the dust settled, Gaden Jangtze monks had a meeting and regretted the expulsion of this great lama and master. Many in Jangtze have received teachings from him. But what is done is done. Regrets and broken samaya is the lot of the day for them who commit actions for political ends. They expelled one of their great teachers just to look clean and Shugden free. But what they ended up on the table with is much worse-broken samaya.

TK

It is not easy for samsaric beings not to fall under the influence of the 8 worldly concerns.  Even the monastics who are highly trained in Dharma are not spared if real practice is not internalised.   When the stakes are high and those involved have the authority and power at their disposal to protect themselves, it is most likely they will use it even if it is at the expense of someone whom they have receive great care and benefit from.

At this point gratitude, loyalty and integrity are all thrown to the wind.  Self protection predominate regardless of the price.  However, when the dust settles and some conscience prevails, all is too late.  The unimaginable broken samaya has been committed.   

 



WisdomBeing

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2011, 06:52:56 PM »
RECENT NEWS:

After Gaden Jangtze Monastery expelled their own Gyurme Kensur Geshe Chatee from their monastery in order to please the Dalai Lama in such haste, they had an after thought. After the Dalai Lama finished his stay in Gaden and the dust settled, Gaden Jangtze monks had a meeting and regretted the expulsion of this great lama and master. Many in Jangtze have received teachings from him. But what is done is done. Regrets and broken samaya is the lot of the day for them who commit actions for political ends. They expelled one of their great teachers just to look clean and Shugden free. But what they ended up on the table with is much worse-broken samaya.

TK

Thanks for sharing this news. I guess the motivation of the monks behind the expulsion of their Gyume Kensur were on  the eight mundane concerns - to want praise from the Dalai Lama and not want blame, to want a good reputation and not want shame, to want to ensure they have material support from the TGIE and not want material loss.

Regret after the fact is always a bummer. At least they do realise and regret - that's a start, though in this case, there's nothing much they can do about broken samaya.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Mana

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2011, 04:04:06 AM »
RECENT NEWS:

After Gaden Jangtze Monastery expelled their own Gyurme Kensur Geshe Chatee from their monastery in order to please the Dalai Lama in such haste, they had an after thought. After the Dalai Lama finished his stay in Gaden and the dust settled, Gaden Jangtze monks had a meeting and regretted the expulsion of this great lama and master. Many in Jangtze have received teachings from him. But what is done is done. Regrets and broken samaya is the lot of the day for them who commit actions for political ends. They expelled one of their great teachers just to look clean and Shugden free. But what they ended up on the table with is much worse-broken samaya.

TK

It is not so much the 8 worldly concerns that motivated the monks to expel Gyurme Kensur. It was total fear. Fear of the Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama would not say expel this person or that person these days as he has been highly criticized for that in the past. So he will drop hints. If the hints are not taken he will not be pleased with Gaden Jangtze. One word that he is displeased with Gaden Jangtze or any Gelug Monastery would bring heaps of trouble and bad reputation for them. So when he mentioned Gyurme Kensur doesn't come to see him anymore or attend his teachings, the inference is Gyurme Kensur MUST HAVE DEFECTED TO THE SHUGDEN CAMP. So therefore he doesn't attend the Dalai Lama's events. From this hint and this hint alone, the Abbot of Gaden Jangtze went into a tailspin and expelled Gyurme Kensur. Sadness, politics, fear, undemocratic policies and religious persecution rules the Gelug Monasteries these days.



« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 04:05:57 AM by Mana »

triesa

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Re: Disturbing & Encouraging News
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2011, 02:30:40 PM »
With so much persecution and suppression still going on in Gaden Monastery, it is inevitable  these highly attained lamas like Denma Locho Rinpoche, Gyume Kensur Rinpoche and Ven Choden Rinpoche will join forces with Shar Gaden ot Serpom Monastery one day.

It is only a great loss of Gaden Monastery of all these senior and knowledgable high lamas who are expelled as they can give so many dharma teachings and empowerments to the young monks.

On another note, while Gaden Monastery is stupidly chasing these high lamas out, and when these high lamas who have strong faith in Dorje Shugden and who have never utter a word to condemn Dalai lama, join Shar Gaden or Serpom Monasteries, they will reinforce to the rest of the world that Shugden practice is not wrong.

Dorje Shugden practice will remain strong and steadfast with the shinning examples of these lamas and tulkus.