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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: WisdomBeing on May 26, 2011, 12:08:22 AM
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Just read this interesting news (http://www.unpo.org/article/12675) that His Holiness is expected to live 113 year as per a prophecy made by Nechung Choekyong Chenmo. This news was announced by Samdhong Rinpoche - the outgoing Kalon Tripa - during the concluding session of Second Tibetan National General Meeting yesterday.
However, he further said that it all dependent on the collective accumulations of good merit of the Tibetan people and that all of us should rededicate ourselves to abide by His Holiness's kind advises. (no Shugden for you! - okay, he didn't say that)i
I remember his Holiness saying that he dreamed of living to 113 a few years ago too.
So, do you think Nechung will be accurate?
Will we have to wait for another 20+ years for the ban on Shugden to be lifted?
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I am doubtful of Nechung's accuracy as Nechung is still an unenlightened being.
I remember reading how the Dalai Lama did say that he foresees himself to be with us here for another 20 years. He's currently 76, so that's till 96 years old.
We would be very, very fortunate if the Dalai Lama lives till 113 though!
Everything is impermanent.
Perhaps the Dalai Lama will "lift" the ban on the practice of Dorje Shugden.... :P..... and perhaps scold those who gave up their practice for being so floppy and unstable. That would be a good laugh.
Or perhaps the Dalai Lama will push down Shugdenpa's even more and push the controversy into the global spotlight.
So many "perhaps". For now, I wish the Dalai Lama a very long life. :)
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If you guys have been listening to the biographies of Previous Enlightened Masters encounter with Nechung. Do you think that what Nechung says is correct??? ::)
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If you guys have been listening to the biographies of Previous Enlightened Masters encounter with Nechung. Do you think that what Nechung says is correct??? ::)
Can you place the biographies here or at least a link? It would be interesting to read.
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I don't think Nechung can be accurate when he says the Dalai Lama will live to 113.
1. Nechung is not an enlgihtened being how can he predict what is going to happen.
2. Dalai Lama is now only 76 and many times it has been said and even Dalai Lama himself say he will live for another 20 yrs ++ added up that will make Dalai Lama's age less than 100 yrs only.
3. If merits are needed and be accumulated to lengthen Dalai Lamas life. Then it depends on the Tibetan people to generate the merits. But we do not know how much merit can be accumulated.
4. I think the Dalai Lama wants to see what the people's reaction would be and test them to see how devoted they are when they have been practicing Dorje Shugden in the past and now abandoned him showing disloyalty to Dorje Shugden.
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Just read this interesting news ([url]http://www.unpo.org/article/12675[/url]) that His Holiness is expected to live 113 year as per a prophecy made by Nechung Choekyong Chenmo. This news was announced by Samdhong Rinpoche - the outgoing Kalon Tripa - during the concluding session of Second Tibetan National General Meeting yesterday.
However, he further said that it all dependent on the collective accumulations of good merit of the Tibetan people and that all of us should rededicate ourselves to abide by His Holiness's kind advises. (no Shugden for you! - okay, he didn't say that)i
I remember his Holiness saying that he dreamed of living to 113 a few years ago too.
So, do you think Nechung will be accurate?
Will we have to wait for another 20+ years for the ban on Shugden to be lifted?
His Holiness said it first? Maybe Nechung's run out of mis-prophecies, and he's starting to go through the archives for ideas...
You know what? He's an unenlightened being, so I'm not going to put my eggs into his basket. What I will say though, is that His Holiness the Dalai Lama's students had better take a page out of the book that's teaching FPMT's students right now about guru devotion, and learn quick because what's happening to Ven. Lama Zopa Rinpoche now may happen to their own teacher at any time he chooses to manifest it.
May all holy lamas live long to spread the Dharma, and may Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition blaze in the ten directions forever.
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So, do you think Nechung will be accurate?
Will we have to wait for another 20+ years for the ban on Shugden to be lifted?
Lets just take a look at Nechung's track record:
Incorrect advise to dalai lama to stay in Tibet when the Chinese were invading
Incorrect medicine to the 13th dalai lama, probably causing his death
Incorrect prediction of Tibet's fate during the british invasion
Incorrect advice of Dorje Shugden's status as a spirit
So now, when I hear that Nechung predicts the Dalai Lama to live until 113, my alarm bells can't help but go off a little. How much can the words of a worldly spirit with a bad track record be believed?
Best to take Nechung's words with a large-ish pinch of salt.
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I'm with you there re taking Nechung's advice with a gallon of salt, but I still don't get why the Dalai Lama keeps consulting Nechung when Nechung has had a bad track record and why would the Dalai Lama consult an unenlightened protector when he could consult an enlightened one, like Palden Lhamo for example.
Something that also bothers me regarding Nechung is that he was instrumental in the manifestation of Dorje Shugden, yet he seems to be screwing up everywhere else. I find it quite contradictory, don't you?
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Something that also bothers me regarding Nechung is that he was instrumental in the manifestation of Dorje Shugden, yet he seems to be screwing up everywhere else. I find it quite contradictory, don't you?
Nechung is playing into the role already predestined. Remember who is waiting at his temple's southern gate.
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Something that also bothers me regarding Nechung is that he was instrumental in the manifestation of Dorje Shugden, yet he seems to be screwing up everywhere else. I find it quite contradictory, don't you?
Nechung is playing into the role already predestined. Remember who is waiting at his temple's southern gate.
Our dear King Dorje Shugden.......
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It's said that how long a Lama lives depend on how well his students' spiritual practices progress and transform. It's such a dynamic situation that no one can know for sure.
Nevertheless , I sincerely pray that the Buddha of Compassion and all high Masters will live long and continue to benefit as many as possible.
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Something that also bothers me regarding Nechung is that he was instrumental in the manifestation of Dorje Shugden, yet he seems to be screwing up everywhere else. I find it quite contradictory, don't you?
Perhaps he's trying to make people lose faith in him gradually, and return back to Dorje Shugden...you know, manifesting inconsistencies and bad predictions and all that.
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Something that also bothers me regarding Nechung is that he was instrumental in the manifestation of Dorje Shugden, yet he seems to be screwing up everywhere else. I find it quite contradictory, don't you?
Perhaps he's trying to make people lose faith in him gradually, and return back to Dorje Shugden...you know, manifesting inconsistencies and bad predictions and all that.
That's a very good point Dharma Defender. After all, Nechung was the catalyst in Dorje Shugden arising as a Dharma Protector. Nechung certainly had achieved clairvoyance by then to have made that request, and he would had known that Dorje Shugden would become a "competitor" at a certain point of time (current). I don't think he was so stupid to create a competitor in order to be jealous of him later.
I believe all this is an illusory play in order to fulfill the Tibetan prophecy of Dorje Shugden replacing Nechung as the Chief Dharmapala of Tibet (and perhaps Tibetan Buddhism ???). After all, the prophecy also said that Dorje Shugden will replace Nechung as Nechung has become enlightened .
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Looks like Nechung cannot be trusted and it also appears that his false prophecies is deliberate. Despite his inherent inaccuracies, the Dalai Lama continue to consult him. There must be a reason for all these. So far, what Thaimonk suggested seemed to offer a glimmer of hope in understanding what is going on. Honestly, as for what Nechung says about the Dalai Lama, I can only take it with a pinch of salt. However, whatever it is, from how I look at it, I think that the passing of the Dalai Lama is very important as it will surely mark the dawn of a new era. It will be Dorje Shugden's time at that time.
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Nechung's prediction about HH Dalai Lama may seem preposterous at this point.We can just dismiss it as inaccurate, based on some of his previous predictions.
Yet if we go back to that point in time when it was he who was instrumental for the arising of Dorje Shugden as an uncommon Dharma Protector to protect Je Tsongkapa's teachings, we would need to think twice about dismissing what he predicts. It 's a strange and uncommon alliance between Nechung and Dorje Shugden.
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I believe all this is an illusory play in order to fulfill the Tibetan prophecy of Dorje Shugden replacing Nechung as the Chief Dharmapala of Tibet (and perhaps Tibetan Buddhism ). After all, the prophecy also said that Dorje Shugden will replace Nechung as Nechung has become enlightened .
I do believe this script is the best every 'written' and that the characters, plots, sub plots, intrigue, deceit, hope, defeat, etc is all part of a complex yet rather 'simple' means of getting the best out of our degenerate times.
It is after all, the 'forbidden fruit' that has always intrigued and subdued mankind... who we seemingly chose as our heroes or villain in this play is irrelevant so to speak as the culmination of this plot has only one objective... and that is to reinstate The King! And when it comes to making that 'curtain call'... all the 'actors' would be given a much deserved standing ovation!
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I doubt Nechung's prediction can be accurate at all. Based on track record, Nechung has ever predicted that Tibet will be returned to the Tibetan (can't remember the exact date) and during that time even the Dalai Lama had told the Tibetan that they will see him in Lhasa in the year XXXX as predicted by Nechung.
Many Tibetan believed it at that time and I heard that all Gelug monasteries in India has stopped all building and construction work. The monks and many lay Tibetans all waited in anticipation of that day to return to Tibet. However, the prophesized date came and go and that day never happened. So why is Nechung's prediction going to be true this time?
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I think it doesn't matter if Nechung was correct or not, but I sincerely wish for His Holiness the Dalai Lama to have a good health, continue to live long and turn the wheel of Dharma to all sentient beings. If His Holiness will live until He's 113, with a healthy body, it's a good thing isn't it?
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I do not think that Nechung is very accurate in his prediction as he is not yet an enlightened being. He cannot judge when another sentient being dies. However, if the length of the Dalai Lamas life depends on the merits he receives then he may live for another 20+ years as there are many many people around the world who dedicate merits to the long like of the Dalai Lama. So if the Dalai Lama were to live longer or make it to the age of 113, the ban would not be lifting until that time. Unless something happens which completely goes against what i have just said. To answer the questions, No i do not think that Nechung is accurate and yes i think we will most likely have to wait another 20+ years for the ban to be lifted.
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If His Holiness will live until He's 113, with a healthy body, it's a good thing isn't it?
In general, the longer an evildoer lives the worse for himself, because the longer he engages in his evil actions. Still, as far as others are concerned, there is no harm that the evil dalie lives very long, provided that he spends his years where he belongs, the garbage bin of history.
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I personally do not think is important or not His Holiness live till 113yeras old the most crucial one is he willing to have a discussion with the Shugden people to find a solution to lift the ban if His Holiness is benefiting mankind then I do not see why he cannot live long and continue teach the holy Dharma.
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It is because of a promise made by Dultzin to Nechung and his reminding Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen that today we are fortunate to have Dorje Shugden as our protector and Protector for the past over 350 years.
If Nechung predicts that DaLai Lama will live to 113 years, I rejoice out of respect for a High Lama that has brought Tibetan Buddhism to the world.
Strange that Nechung who requested for the arising of Dorje Shugden should go against DS with the presence of Dalai Lama who bans the worship of DS. Does it make sense for one who asked for Dorje Shugden yet hold back the propitiation of DS?
To my low level of mind, it really does not make sense, for I am not clairvoyant to see the bigger picture.
May all these celestial beings make it easier for us lay people and lift the ban, that is all Shugdenpas request and may our request be granted soon.
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I think we will be happy that the Dalai Lama lives on as long as possible. May the Dalai Lama reincarnate again to bring benefit to sentient beings.
Some people have said that due to Nechung's service to the Dalai Lama, Nechung is reaching enlightenment really fast due to his service towards the Dalai Lama. Nechung initiated the road towards the arising of Dorje Shugden, so we are grateful he did what he did.