dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: DharmaSpace on July 19, 2014, 05:01:16 PM
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A young Tibetan has killed himself to avoid arrest by Chinese authorities over the destruction of a statue of a Buddhist “protector” deity denounced by Tibet’s spiritual leader the Dalai Lama in a long-running religious worship controversy, sources say.
Tashi Tsering, 28, stabbed himself to death on Feb. 20 when police attempted to detain him in Markham (in Chinese, Mangkang) county, Chamdo (Changdu) prefecture, in China’s Tibet Autonomous Region over the statue’s destruction six years ago, a Tibetan living in exile told RFA’s Tibetan Service.
Tsering, a layman, had joined together with at least eight monks of Chamdo’s Khenpaluk monastery in 2008 to destroy the deity Shugden’s statue after the Dalai Lama urged Tibetans to abandon its worship, the source said, speaking on condition of anonymity and citing sources in the region.
“The eight monks, along with four other monks, were detained in 2008 because of their protest and were finally released in 2012 and 2013,” the source said.
Tsering, a resident of Buru village in Markham’s Chakthak township, was not detained at that time “but when the police came to know about his involvement and tried to detain him, he took his own life,” he said.
Chinese police frequently investigate and arrest Tibetans deemed to have responded to the wishes or policy directives of the Dalai Lama, whom Beijing considers a dangerous separatist bent on “splitting” Tibet from Chinese control.
'Divisive, sectarian'
When the Dalai Lama in 2008 publicly criticized Shugden worship as divisive and sectarian, Khenpaluk monastery was the first religious establishment in the area to ban the practice, the source said.
“Some monks of Khenpaluk then volunteered to dismantle the statue,” which had been installed by a private sponsor, he said.
About five days before Tashi Tsering’s death last week, Chinese security officers detained another group of 20 Khenpaluk monks on suspicion of having participated in the 2008 protest and of sending photos of the Dalai Lama over the social-media network WeChat, the source said.
“They were released on Feb. 21, after having been held for about a week,” he said.
Meanwhile, dozens of robed Shugden followers demonstrated on Saturday outside a building in San Francisco where the Dalai Lama was scheduled to speak, accusing him of persecuting them over their beliefs.
“We don’t need the Dalai Lama to practice our religion or for us to practice his,” Norden Kelsang, a New York-based 38-year-old nun, said, according to a Reuters report on Feb. 23.
'Distorted prayers'
But speaking inside the Davies Symphony Hall, the Dalai Lama defended his decision to denounce the deity.
The Dalai Lama said that though he himself had once worshipped the spirit, he had come “to realize that there was something wrong with it, particularly in the context of the Buddhist tradition,” said a weekend report on the website of the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA), Tibet’s India-based government in exile.
“He looked into its history and discovered that it had come about during the time of the 5th Dalai Lama who [had assumed political authority over Tibet and] referred to it as a malevolent spirit arisen from distorted prayers…,” the report said.
The current 14th Dalai Lama fled into exile in India after a failed 1959 uprising against Chinese occupation. He has been the face and symbol of the Tibetan struggle for freedom for more than five decades.
Reported by Lobsang Choephel for RFA’s Tibetan Service. Translated by Karma Dorjee. Written in English by Richard Finney.
http://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/controversy-02242014143959.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=shugden (http://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/controversy-02242014143959.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=shugden)
It is really unprecendented in Buddhist history the destruction of buddhist statues plus this person died for it as well. Lets lift the ban as it damages and does not benefit in any way.
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It is sad to know that another man is dead because of the ban on Dorje Shugden.
Due to the ban, many families are divided and separated. The Tibetan society are also divided as Shugden practitioners are being discriminated or not allowed to join the other Tibetan for education, medical treatment, social activities, or even to buy food or daily supply from shops.
Threatening letters are sent against Dorje Shugden practitioners (eg http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/another-threatening-lette/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/another-threatening-lette/) and http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/shocking-letter/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/shocking-letter/)).
Do we want to see all these discrimination and violence? Please lift the ban so that he Tibetan can be united and no more disharmony among the Tibetan.
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One death too many for the ban. One sorrow too many for the Tibetans. Lift the ban and lift this additional sorrow and division for the Tibetans. They have suffered enough, they are displaced enough, they are divided enough. Please lighten their burden, please give them that sense of belonging and unity.
The Dalai Lama cannot have just found out about the history of Dorje Shugden. Please do not belittle his teachers and himself. He is no ignorant, callow youth but a Noble Prize Winner for Peace. For Buddha's sake, please do give more credit than that!
That statement was meant for ignoramus. For whatever political game being played, please give the general public more credit. Not all Westerners are that ignorant. Please give the minutest detail as to the real reason for the ban.
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Guys, how does one stab oneself to death? That sounds like some foul play there, sort of like in South Africa when anti-apartheid leaders would all commit suicide during white police interrogations.
hmm.
You know, the Dalai Lama should bring down this ban, so that China will knock this stuff off. He is causing division, of course (which is something he does best) but then China wants to make the Dalai Lama look bad, which really isn't helping anything.
You know, the Dalai Lama could just say that he dislikes the practice, won't do the practice, etc., but you know, he could ask people to allow others to practice, rather than acting like a dogmatic king from the 1600s or something.... You know, I don't know how this guy writes books asking for peace harmony and religious tolerance. Who writes them for him, because he certainly doesn't understand the first thing about it.
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What a sad piece of news. Perhaps it is Tsering's karma for destroying a Buddha's statue ripening. Whatever it is, to have committed suicide shows that this person felt he had no other choice. I hope the Dalai Lama will hear of this and realise what his ban on Dorje Shugden is doing to his people. Chenrezig is the Buddha of Compassion and not one who creates suffering. Lift the ban and alleviate suffering! It's time.
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Whatever it is, to have committed suicide shows that this person felt he had no other choice.
Indeed, and this is the very essence of the mental slavery imposed by cultish, terrorist sects such as dalaism: to make one feel that one lacks choices other than being a fanatic minion of the cult leader, such as the evil dalai.
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What a sad piece of news. Perhaps it is Tsering's karma for destroying a Buddha's statue ripening. Whatever it is, to have committed suicide shows that this person felt he had no other choice. I hope the Dalai Lama will hear of this and realise what his ban on Dorje Shugden is doing to his people. Chenrezig is the Buddha of Compassion and not one who creates suffering. Lift the ban and alleviate suffering! It's time.
I think traditionally, that bad karma doesn't ripen that fast; this is a western myth, which I am told isn't traditional. I mention this, because I feel it's an excuse sometimes, not that I think Wisdom Being intends that, but people will often mistakenly think of like 'instant' karma, which then leads people to berate each other, saying oh, that happened because you did something bad. What have you been doing lately? If they haven't done anything bad, then it can get misconstrued that they must be doing something bad, like oh, Dorje Shugden practice....
At any rate, I mention this, because I see people saying this to each other all the time.... anyway, I am really sorry this person killed himself, except, I think it like sounds like a homicide (how does one stab oneself to death?), so I am really sorry that someone (China?) committed a homicide. I am doing mani for this person,as well as other prayers.
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I think traditionally, that bad karma doesn't ripen that fast; this is a western myth, which I am told isn't traditional.
Horrendously unskilful actions, such as creating schism within the Sangha (which is precisely the case with the suiciding Tibetan), are known as ”karma of immediate retribution”, meaning that their negative effects are to be received already in the next, immediate rebirth.
Still, such horrendous actions might well work, if not as main causes, as contributory conditions for the ripening of previously accumulated unskillful karma, thus leading to the despair and consequent suicide of the brainwashed, fanaticized follower of the evil dalai.
Therefore, while it would be indeed too much to say that the suicide might be ”Tsering's karma for destroying the Buddha's statue ripening”, it would be reasonable to accept that Tsering's hideous crime helped the ripening of previous unskilful karma, thus leading to his suicide.
I think it like sounds like a homicide (how does one stab oneself to death?),
Self-stabbing is a well-known way of suiciding, and every once in a while there are news of people stabbing themselves to death.
http://www.fsijournal.org/article/0379-0738(92)90151-L/abstract?cc=y?cc=y (http://www.fsijournal.org/article/0379-0738(92)90151-L/abstract?cc=y?cc=y)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9376436/Stressed-Bank-of-England-official-stabbed-self-to-death.html, (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9376436/Stressed-Bank-of-England-official-stabbed-self-to-death.html,)
http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/crimes/29-01-2013/123615-suicide_five_times-0/ (http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/crimes/29-01-2013/123615-suicide_five_times-0/)
Not to mention the harakiri or seppukku, which is a well-known, traditional Japanese self-stabbing suicide method.
so I am really sorry that someone (China?) committed a homicide.
From a misinformed assumption (that one cannot suicide by self-stabbing) you blindly jumped to a unwarranted conclusion (that there was a homicide) and immediately to a hateful suggestion (that ”China” murdered the Tibetan fanatical terrorist). Maybe you are just too excited today.
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I think traditionally, that bad karma doesn't ripen that fast; this is a western myth, which I am told isn't traditional.
Horrendously unskilful actions, such as creating schism within the Sangha (which is precisely the case with the suiciding Tibetan), are known as ”karma of immediate retribution”, meaning that their negative effects are to be received already in the next, immediate rebirth.
Still, such horrendous actions might well work, if not as main causes, as contributory conditions for the ripening of previously accumulated unskillful karma, thus leading to the despair and consequent suicide of the brainwashed, fanaticized follower of the evil dalai.
Therefore, while it would be indeed too much to say that the suicide might be ”Tsering's karma for destroying the Buddha's statue ripening”, it would be reasonable to accept that Tsering's hideous crime helped the ripening of previous unskilful karma, thus leading to his suicide.
I think it like sounds like a homicide (how does one stab oneself to death?),
Self-stabbing is a well-known way of suiciding, and every once in a while there are news of people stabbing themselves to death.
[url]http://www.fsijournal.org/article/0379-0738(92)90151-L/abstract?cc=y?cc=y[/url] ([url]http://www.fsijournal.org/article/0379-0738(92)90151-L/abstract?cc=y?cc=y[/url])
[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9376436/Stressed-Bank-of-England-official-stabbed-self-to-death.html,[/url] ([url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9376436/Stressed-Bank-of-England-official-stabbed-self-to-death.html,[/url])
[url]http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/crimes/29-01-2013/123615-suicide_five_times-0/[/url] ([url]http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/crimes/29-01-2013/123615-suicide_five_times-0/[/url])
Not to mention the harakiri or seppukku, which is a well-known, traditional Japanese self-stabbing suicide method.
so I am really sorry that someone (China?) committed a homicide.
From a misinformed assumption (that one cannot suicide by self-stabbing) you blindly jumped to a unwarranted conclusion (that there was a homicide) and immediately to a hateful suggestion (that ”China” murdered the Tibetan fanatical terrorist). Maybe you are just too excited today.
Okay, well, I am aware that there is Japanese ritual suicide, though I would not call it self-stabbing, but rather self-diembowling. And as I think we all know, people can suicide, like they do sometimes, by for instance, jumping off a high building. But, you know when the circumstances are strange, like when activists for equality die under police protection, running and committing suicide off buildings, like in South Africa during apartheid, etc., then you know, it does make one wonder... this man supposedly killed himself... then on top of that, is supposedly doing it because he fears arrest. I am not hateful in saying China might have done it. There is a divide in the Tibetan Buddhist community, caused by the Dalai. So, I am just saying, and with a question mark, China? Because this is not something the Tibetan community benefits from at all; the division of the Tibetans is only benefiting the politicians. (Nor do I mean the whole country obviously. Like when JFK was assassinated, a lot of people thought the CIA is involved--- okay--- probably they were, but not the whole CIA, just a few members who didn't like progress).
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Another mindless death of a young 28 years old man. Buddha taught about the preciousness of human rebirth due to its unique possibilities of enlightenment. Another human rebirth wasted due to DS ban. How many more lives have to be lost from both side either pro-Shugden or anti-Shugden? The atrocities against DS practitioners are a disgrace to Buddhism and a disgrace to what HHTDL represents.
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Okay, well, I am aware that there is Japanese ritual suicide, though I would not call it self-stabbing, but rather self-diembowling.
Seppukku is self-disemboweling through self-stabbing, not through self-hanging or self poisoning. Self-stabbing is a most usual way of suiciding, as shown by the links in my previous post.
But, you know when the circumstances are strange, like when activists for equality die under police protection, running and committing suicide off buildings, like in South Africa during apartheid,
The only strange circumstance here is that the fanaticized Tsering was himself engaged in promoting apartheid thorough violent actions. And it is not unusual that fanaticized people suicide out of despair.
Your comparison of the fanaticized Tsering with anti-apartheid activists in South Africa is quite unfortunate. Tsering's victims, such as Dorje Shugden practitioners, but not Tsering, could be compared with apartheid victims.
Besides, the fanaticized Tsering was not under the protection of the Chinese police when he suicided; rather, he was trying to avoid such protection, because of his extremist, fanaticized views.
etc., then you know, it does make one wonder... this man supposedly killed himself... then on top of that, is supposedly doing it because he fears arrest.
For no reason. His 20 accomplices had just been released by the police without any further trouble, after having been held for one week.
Therefore, the fanaticized Tsering suicided only because of the mental imbalance produced by his tortuous belief in the evil dalai and his criminal ideology.
I am not hateful in saying China might have done it.
It is a thoroughly gratuitous, unwarranted, unsubstantiated accusation, which therefore can only have hatred as its cause.
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How many more lives will be sacrificed in order to lift the ban on Dorje Shugden’s practice ? It’s really very sad to see Tashi Tsering being misled by certain quarters into taking such drastic action. He should not had taken and wasted this human rebirth literally . As a monk, he should had known very well whatever mistaken actions he has done could be resolved as all things are impermanent.
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one ban, so many death, this ban has cause countless death. But with such suicide incident by the Pro-Dalai Lama supporter, shows how aggressive and fanatic they are. Why does such action happening? without a doubt, the ban has cause family to split apart, and monks being targeted and attacked by fanatic Pro-Dalai Lama followers, and CTA keeping mum on the attacked to DS practitioners.
The ban should come down now and hope HHDL will lift the ban to put an end to all the unnecessary death.
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A lot of people had sacrificed their life be it emotional or physical, and in some cases even the life of a previous human being is ended. Due to this conflicts (ban) many families members were separated, and some of them do not even pay their visit to their own ageing parents which i think it is a fundamental value in human kind even more so if we proclaiming ourselves to be a Buddhist. All of this is still happening only for one reason, the ban which H.H.T.D.L claimed or rather accusing Dorje Shugden is a spirit, therefore banning all Buddhist from practising this Protector.
Why?
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This is just another sad example of the result of the ban. Like the senseless self immolation of young Tibetan monks over the cause to free Tibet from China, another young life has heedlessly ended as a direct result of HHDL's call for the DS ban. And what is HHDL's stand on all these deaths for his causes? Nothing it seems as explained in the following statements found in an article this link:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/dalai-lama-asks-monks-to-remember-the-buddhist-faith/
During the Dalai Lama’s visit to Australia in June 2013, the Dalai Lama gave the following answer when questioned about the spate of self-immolations:
Tibetans could “easily hurt other people”, but instead were choosing “to sacrifice their own lives, not hurting others”.
And in 2008 in Drepung Monastery in India, the Dalai Lama has the following to say about the actions being taken against Dorje Shugden practitioners:
Recently monasteries have fearlessly expelled Shugden monks where needed. I fully support their actions. I praise them. If monasteries find taking action hard, tell them the Dalai Lama is responsible for this.
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How come the Dalai Lama, revered by Tibetans as Chenrezig, only came to realize that he all along he had been doing a spirit practice after so many decades?
What next?
Will the Dalai Lama wake up one fine day and realize that Lama Tsongkhapa was just an illiterate butcher who faked his attainments? Will the Dalai Lama ban the practice? Then there will be no Gelug lineage? Then what about all the Dalai Lamas???
"The Dalai Lama said that though he himself had once worshipped the spirit, he had come “to realize that there was something wrong with it, particularly in the context of the Buddhist tradition,” said a weekend report on the website of the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA), Tibet’s India-based government in exile."
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Buddhists should be afraid of their own actions and the repercussions of it instead of the formless Buddhas and Dharma protectors. Destroying a statue in the name of a unfounded ban should be the least important part of our practice. We should not reduce the teachings of Je Tsongkhapa, Atisha and the Buddha himself down to the worship of authentic deities. The refutation of Dorje Shugden should be carried down on the debate floor in the same manner as Nalanda and the great Indian masters of old.
They should do it like how the great debate at Samye with Shantarakshita representing the Indian side and Hvashang representing the Chinese side. In the end, through debate, the Indian master and their rich tradition of Buddhist study, enquiry and gradual method towards enlightenment won the debate. Ever since, Tibetans would only draw the Buddhist teachings from Indian masters and monasteries. Likewise, they should do one for Dorje Shugden and I think most of us who are in the know will already know what the outcome would be.
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One more innocent life is lost due to the ban on Dorje Shugden. This ban is nothing but suffering and pain for the Dorje Shugden followers including the pro-Dalai Lama supporters. It simply does not benefit anyone at all! Why is His Holiness Dalai Lama remained unperturbed? Does His Holiness Dalai Lama care about the well-being of all affected by this terrible ban on Dorje Shugden? For sentient beings' sake, please lift the ban!
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Very sad news that people who are loyal DS practitioners have to sacrifice their lives for the practice. Don't the Dalai Lama felt any sense of guilt that because of the impose of the ban that so many people perish and also separated from their families?
How much more sufferings these people have to go through before the ban will be lifted?
Maybe it's about time now for the ban to be finally lifted so that everyone can practice openly without any fear.
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It is a very sad situation There is too much suffering out there.I feel really sad for the people who said something negative about Dorje Shugden who is an Enlightened Buddha .May there be freedom for all regardless of sect,religion,class or creed.May compassion rule and the ban lifted.
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Another death. Another life prematurely terminated as a result of the ban. So many people have suffered strict oppression, pressurized and had no alternative but to take their own lives as a result of great pressure. It is not a matter of who is right or who is wrong. It is not a matter of which side a person is. The end result is the ban has caused too much turmoil, unrest and worse still, in this case DEATH .So in a very real sense, his blood is on CTA's hands because everyone of this act is a direct result of the ban.
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The refutation of Dorje Shugden should be carried down on the debate floor in the same manner as Nalanda and the great Indian masters of old.
You thoroughly miss the point. What is at stake is not the authenticity of the deity Dorje Shugden, but rather the universal human right of freedom of belief and religion, the right to worship any deity or no deity at all, as long as you don't interfere with the same right of others, without being harassed, persecuted, or discriminated.
They should do it like how the great debate at Samye with Shantarakshita representing the Indian side and Hvashang representing the Chinese side. In the end, through debate, the Indian master and their rich tradition of Buddhist study, enquiry and gradual method towards enlightenment won the debate. Ever since, Tibetans would only draw the Buddhist teachings from Indian masters and monasteries. Likewise, they should do one for Dorje Shugden and I think most of us who are in the know will already know what the outcome would be.
Another ridiculous proposal. Freedom of belief and religion is a human right, period, and not the topic for any idiotic debate aiming at curtailing it.
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I hope the Dalai Lama will hear of this and realise what his ban on Dorje Shugden is doing to his people. Chenrezig is the Buddha of Compassion and not one who creates suffering.
This goes with all the other people who has suffered and created more negative karma from the ban.
If Dalai Lama is truly Chenrezig, he would know the effects of the ban on his people and everyone else for the matter who is against and for the Dalai Lama. It is true everyone creates their own karma. Karma is created when there is a condition to open up a karmic seed. This is especially puzzling to those who believed in the bigger picture and this ban is an act of divine play by the higher beings. I have no answer for this but I know that Chenrezig or any buddhas will not forget those who committed such negative actions to suffer but to find ways to help them.
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If Dalai Lama is truly Chenrezig, he would know the effects of the ban
If the evil dalai were Chenrezig, he would not perpetrate the ban to start with.
And there is no need for one to be ”Chenrezig” in order to know the effects of the vicious ban; it is enough that one is not a psychopath, but this is exactly what the evil dalai is.
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The evil dalai's attemp to destroy Buddhist statues and symbols shows that he is faithful to his Muslim terrorist roots. Look at what his fellow Muslims are doing right now in Iraq.
Cultural terrorism in Iraq
Islamist militants from the Islamic State faction in the Iraqi city of Mosul have been destroying cultural landmarks and religious shrines, claiming they are contrary to Islam. The residents are fighting back.
At the weekend the Islamic State militants decided to target the 840-year-old Crooked Minaret and converged on the area armed with explosives. Hundreds of local residents ran to the area and packed the courtyard, telling the militants that if they destroyed the Minaret then they would have to do so over their dead bodies. The militants backed down and went away. For now.
In the last few weeks, however, the militants have ignored pleas from locals and have begun a systematic iconoclastic campaign to destroy all monuments they claim do not respect Islam, because they claim that by representing figures other than Allah, they are encouraging worship away from Allah.
The militant faction has been in control of Mosul since June.
http://english.pravda.ru/news/society/29-07-2014/128178-iraq_terrorism-0/ (http://english.pravda.ru/news/society/29-07-2014/128178-iraq_terrorism-0/)