Author Topic: Wisdom from 2012  (Read 8284 times)

Vajraprotector

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Wisdom from 2012
« on: July 05, 2012, 08:46:25 PM »
Recently a few of my friends asked me about Tibetan Buddhism, because they have seen the movie "2012". What do you think is the message or "wisdom" we can derive from this part of the movie?

There was a memorable conversation between an older and younger Buddhist monk in a mountain top monastery. The younger monk was telling the older about the giant ships that are being built inside the mountain. The ships were being built secretly by the world’s governments to save the world’s rich and elite from doomsday.

Here’s how the conversation went;

Elder monk: “Do not believe in something simply because you have heard it, Nima.”

Younger monk: “But, great Lama. Tenzin is my brother. He works inside the big tunnel where the ships are built. But what is there in your wisdom, great Lama, if Tenzin is right? What if our world is indeed coming to an end?”

At this question the Elder monk takes the tea kettle and begins to fill, and overflow, the younger monk’s tea cup, spilling tea on the table. The younger monk holds out his hand to signal to the elder to stop pouring.

Younger: “It is full, great Rimpoche”

Elder: “Like this cup you are full of opinions and speculations. To see the light of wisdom, you must first, empty your cup.”

KhedrubGyatso

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Re: Wisdom from 2012
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2012, 02:15:43 AM »
Elder monk: “Do not believe in something simply because you have heard it, Nima.”

Appearances are deceptive as our senses are not completely reliable.

Younger monk: “But, great Lama. Tenzin is my brother. He works inside the big tunnel where the ships are built. But what is there in your wisdom, great Lama, if Tenzin is right? What if our world is indeed coming to an end?”

At this question the Elder monk takes the tea kettle and begins to fill, and overflow, the younger monk’s tea cup, spilling tea on the table. The younger monk holds out his hand to signal to the elder to stop pouring.

Younger: “It is full, great Rimpoche”

Elder: “Like this cup you are full of opinions and speculations. To see the light of wisdom, you must first, empty your cup.”

Our mind is contaminated with falsehoods and mistaken views .No new knowledge and wisdom will go in if we do not remove these wrong views and thoughts.

Tammy

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Re: Wisdom from 2012
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2012, 04:03:15 AM »
Totally agree with the old monk!

To accept new idea, new concept, when listen to dharma teachings - we must always keep an open mind, our mind should be like an 'empty cup' to be able to accept anything new.

Also, we should not just accept anything base on the face value, we should examine the validity of the information given to us, reflect on them before accepting. Only information that had gone through is process stays with us and we will be able to benefit from it. Not just memorize the words what don't mean anything.
Down with the BAN!!!

pgdharma

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Re: Wisdom from 2012
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2012, 11:06:59 AM »
The old man is a wise man. In order for us to see the light of wisdom we have to clear our deluded mind so that we can receive new ideas and views. If our mind is not cleared, no matter how right the views are we will not be able to accept them.  Also we need to check and examine any information imparted before accepting it as sometimes the information may not be correct.

hope rainbow

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Re: Wisdom from 2012
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2012, 12:15:30 PM »
I'll pick up this topic from the angle of "the end of the world".
What is the end of the world, can it really happen, does Buddhism ever talk about an "apocalypse", like the Maya seem to have done or like some other religions talk about?

What is the end of the world?
Could it be the end of the world around us, like in the movie 2012?
Or could it be a nuclear explosion?
Or a huge natural calamity meaning the death of all human life around us?

Wisdom teachings tell us that there is no world "around us", it is not like we are "individuals" experiencing an "outside world". So then how could we experience the end of the world if it was not an intimate experience?

I think the end of the world, and I include the apocalypse into that, is when we die.
When we die we simply experience the end of the world, for the only world we experience is the world we create, and it is a different one for every one of us.
So, when one meditates on death, actually it is like meditating on "the end of the world".


Vajraprotector

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Re: Wisdom from 2012
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2012, 06:40:50 PM »
I found out that the story is very similar to a zen story below:

A Cup of Tea

Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"



Perhaps the moral of the story is that since we have filled our cups with preconceptions, expectations, prejudices, assumptions, and opinions, we think we already know what is happening and hence not open to hear the truth, but we are projecting our deluded 'truth' to other.

In this case, perhaps there was no 'end of the world' like what Nima thought, the end of the world is when our 'world' ends - when we die. Hence, the master or the Elder monk doesn't seem to fear death or end of the world.

Klein

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Re: Wisdom from 2012
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2012, 09:17:54 PM »
I found out that the story is very similar to a zen story below:

A Cup of Tea

Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"



Perhaps the moral of the story is that since we have filled our cups with preconceptions, expectations, prejudices, assumptions, and opinions, we think we already know what is happening and hence not open to hear the truth, but we are projecting our deluded 'truth' to other.

What vajraprotector stated makes a lot of sense. In addition to that, I think our views may be tainted from preconceptions even though we are opened to learning. This is because our preconceptions will pollute what we currently perceive.

So it's important to unlearn and then, relearn. It's like deleting the computer's software and replacing it with a new and improved software. What is "true" in the past may not be true in the present. This is due to impermanence.

When we understand that impermanence is inevitable, we will naturally let go of the past and focus on the current truth. Otherwise, we continue to live in delusion.

Positive Change

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Re: Wisdom from 2012
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2012, 09:07:49 PM »
I'll pick up this topic from the angle of "the end of the world".
What is the end of the world, can it really happen, does Buddhism ever talk about an "apocalypse", like the Maya seem to have done or like some other religions talk about?

What is the end of the world?
Could it be the end of the world around us, like in the movie 2012?
Or could it be a nuclear explosion?
Or a huge natural calamity meaning the death of all human life around us?

Wisdom teachings tell us that there is no world "around us", it is not like we are "individuals" experiencing an "outside world". So then how could we experience the end of the world if it was not an intimate experience?

I think the end of the world, and I include the apocalypse into that, is when we die.
When we die we simply experience the end of the world, for the only world we experience is the world we create, and it is a different one for every one of us.
So, when one meditates on death, actually it is like meditating on "the end of the world".

What is the "big" deal with the concept of the "end of the world" anyway? The only "sure thing" is that we WILL die and in dying it is after all the "end of the world" as we perceive it? So there is no real difference apart from the fact that a whole lot of other beings "leave" at more or less the same time.... Sure the fear of death is in all of us in varying degrees... varying perhaps we are somehow still living in a deluded state of mind whereby we still live as though we will live forever...

So in reference to the storyline and that particular conversation between the two monks, the elder of the two was in fact bringing the younger one "back on track" so to speak... because in fearing the end of the world, he was in essence fearing death... and that was the least of his problems because as a monk, one meditates on death constantly and should be something he is ready to face!

dsiluvu

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Re: Wisdom from 2012
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2012, 07:23:01 PM »
I'll pick up this topic from the angle of "the end of the world".
What is the end of the world, can it really happen, does Buddhism ever talk about an "apocalypse", like the Maya seem to have done or like some other religions talk about?

What is the end of the world?
Could it be the end of the world around us, like in the movie 2012?
Or could it be a nuclear explosion?
Or a huge natural calamity meaning the death of all human life around us?

Wisdom teachings tell us that there is no world "around us", it is not like we are "individuals" experiencing an "outside world". So then how could we experience the end of the world if it was not an intimate experience?

I think the end of the world, and I include the apocalypse into that, is when we die.
When we die we simply experience the end of the world, for the only world we experience is the world we create, and it is a different one for every one of us.
So, when one meditates on death, actually it is like meditating on "the end of the world".

What is the "big" deal with the concept of the "end of the world" anyway? The only "sure thing" is that we WILL die and in dying it is after all the "end of the world" as we perceive it? So there is no real difference apart from the fact that a whole lot of other beings "leave" at more or less the same time.... Sure the fear of death is in all of us in varying degrees... varying perhaps we are somehow still living in a deluded state of mind whereby we still live as though we will live forever...

So in reference to the storyline and that particular conversation between the two monks, the elder of the two was in fact bringing the younger one "back on track" so to speak... because in fearing the end of the world, he was in essence fearing death... and that was the least of his problems because as a monk, one meditates on death constantly and should be something he is ready to face!

Hahaha Ditto! Exactly positive change... what is the whole point??? End of the world or not... look the thing called "karma still follows u like a shadow! Why worry about the "end of the world" for it will be the end of our worlds when we think we can live forever and get away from our negative minds... hence it would be wiser to focus on now, our practice, and what are we doing now to determine we have a good rebirth... perhaps not even in this solar system of ours(?)

One thing is for sure... if we have a great Dharma Protector like Dorje Shugden, we are so fortunate already and hence the connection with this special protector is that He will lead you, holding your hand to migrate. Hence it is very important for us to keep our samaya and commitments to our Lamas for DOrje Shugden and the Lama is one :) 

dsiluvu

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Re: Wisdom from 2012
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2012, 07:36:09 PM »
I'll pick up this topic from the angle of "the end of the world".
What is the end of the world, can it really happen, does Buddhism ever talk about an "apocalypse", like the Maya seem to have done or like some other religions talk about?

What is the end of the world?
Could it be the end of the world around us, like in the movie 2012?
Or could it be a nuclear explosion?
Or a huge natural calamity meaning the death of all human life around us?

Wisdom teachings tell us that there is no world "around us", it is not like we are "individuals" experiencing an "outside world". So then how could we experience the end of the world if it was not an intimate experience?

I think the end of the world, and I include the apocalypse into that, is when we die.
When we die we simply experience the end of the world, for the only world we experience is the world we create, and it is a different one for every one of us.
So, when one meditates on death, actually it is like meditating on "the end of the world".

What is the "big" deal with the concept of the "end of the world" anyway? The only "sure thing" is that we WILL die and in dying it is after all the "end of the world" as we perceive it? So there is no real difference apart from the fact that a whole lot of other beings "leave" at more or less the same time.... Sure the fear of death is in all of us in varying degrees... varying perhaps we are somehow still living in a deluded state of mind whereby we still live as though we will live forever...

So in reference to the storyline and that particular conversation between the two monks, the elder of the two was in fact bringing the younger one "back on track" so to speak... because in fearing the end of the world, he was in essence fearing death... and that was the least of his problems because as a monk, one meditates on death constantly and should be something he is ready to face!

bambi

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Re: Wisdom from 2012
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2012, 07:16:49 AM »
LOL.. Before coming across Buddhism teachings, I have always wondered myself, is there such a thing called end of the world? Where do we go then? A whole cycle continuing again in another dimension? Or going back to prehistoric time where dinosaurs roam the earth? A 'restart' button? Good questions I thought to myself.  ???
Now to me, I would think that the saying means dying because we will never know where we will end up. Where our karma will take us. That to me is the end of the world.

The old monk was teaching younger one that there is no point in believing what people say. We should experience the actual thing then believe it. This is what the Buddha taught.

"Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don't infer or be deceived by appearances."

"Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion."

"Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good."

- The Buddha