Author Topic: Maybe CTA should look into this Chinese Tantra Buddhism Organization?  (Read 11158 times)

Namdrol

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ermm...I don't know how to begin, but I just found this in some Chinese forum, it is an organization in Australia called Chinese Han Tantrayana Buddhism - Holy Tantra Jin-Gang-Dhyana Buddhism...something like, even the name is confusing, but looks like it has something to do with Vajrayana/Tibetan Buddhism.

I am not in a position to judge another guru/organization so I will not comment on their authenticity, but from the physical outlook, it is quite unorthodox if it is a Vajrayana group.

Since it could be Vajrayana, then perhaps the CTA should look into it? Didn't CTA persecute Geshe Michael Roach for his long hair and other stuff a few years ago? And I think this Chinese Tantra Organization surpasses Geshe Michael Roach's "weird look" by miles?

And what about the Tsongkhapa-hat-look-alike thingy? Can CTA please kindly write to them and ask them not use a hat similar to Gelugpa's yellow hat because it may create confusion to the public? Please help us to protect the purity of Gelugpa's image will you CTA since you are the Vajrayana's highest authority?

Since CTA is so engrossed to be a religious police in Vajrayana, can CTA pls go check this organization out? Give the Shugden monks a break will you? At least Shugden monks still wear proper monks' robes, hold their vows, do their pujas, serve their gurus...

I will keep looking out for organizations like this for CTA to keep them busy, so that they can leave Shugden monks alone for a while...

 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 10:05:34 PM by Admin »

Big Uncle

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Re: Maybe CTA should look into this Chinese Tantra Buddhism Organization?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 05:54:32 AM »
Dear Namdrol,

I understand what you are saying about the confusion that may arise but the CTA is powerless outside of Tibetan community of India. They have no jurisdiction to say anything about other sects and traditions especially those that have established overseas. From what you are saying, I think there is not enough similarities to make a judgement.

Just similarities between hats is very bad way to judge the authenticity of a tradition. After all, there are organisations within the countries that are invested with such authority that one may write to for such purposes. However, I think it is unnecessary to do this. What is important is if we practice our own lineage properly and uphold our own commitments. 

Ensapa

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Re: Maybe CTA should look into this Chinese Tantra Buddhism Organization?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 09:39:03 AM »
I find this very interesting as the vajrayana lineage of China was virtually wiped out during the Tang dynasty, and what was left was encrypted into sutras of that time. One of their most unique tantra/sutra/lamrim combo is the Shuragama sutra, which also contains a mantra as long as 500 lines, and the most interesting part would be that the mantra itself contained the secret mantras of Hayagriva, Chakrasamvara, Yamantaka and even Vajrayogini's. Other sutras who are in reality a combination of sutra and tantra include the lotus sutra. However in all of these sutras advanced meditations such as those that control the winds were omitted and many things were absent as they were carried over to China before the existence of many mahasiddhas in india. Fortunately, their lineage was transmitted to Japan and survived as the Shingon and Tendai traditions there.

The Vajrayana lineage in China is also very unique due to the conditions that arose. There are 4 main tradtions in Chinese mahayana: ch'an (or zen), tiantai, vajrayana and pureland. Over the years, the traditions fused with each other and became interchangeable. However they have lineage masters that dates back to Bodhidharma (which is our protector!!) which ended with Master Hsuan Hua, who received the lineage from his master Hsu Yun, who also received his lineage directly from the 6th and last official patriarch of China. These lineage masters hold the lineage and the most secret teachings for all the traditions including the vajrayana teachings, or what is left of it that is incomplete that can be derived from sutras that were encrypted with it. Hsuan Hua did not pass out the vajrayana transmission as far as I know, however he promoted the shuragama sutra heavily. Hsuan Hua did not not pass on his lineage to anyone as well.

I would not invalidate this vajrayana tradition completely, but without a proper lineage there wont be much effect as the last lineage holder has passed away. They have found several tantras translated to chinese, namely Chakrasamvara and Hevajra. It would be interesting to see if this lineage would have any results, given the lack of a direct lineage.

samayakeeper

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Re: Maybe CTA should look into this Chinese Tantra Buddhism Organization?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 11:49:35 PM »
Why is the CTA so selective and target only the Dorje Shugden practitioners? Why the selective witch hunts targeted at only Dorje Shugden practitioners? Well, the CTA may say they have the right only over Tibetans who are Dorje Shugden practitioners, so should not CTA also ban Tibetans who are practitioners of Bon or other religions and deprive them of their basic human rights?

It is time already for CTA to focus and help Tibetans in their daily needs and lives and STOP playing being the highest governing spiritual body for Tibetan people! 

dorjedakini

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Re: Maybe CTA should look into this Chinese Tantra Buddhism Organization?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2012, 02:34:31 AM »

It is time already for CTA to focus and help Tibetans in their daily needs and lives and STOP playing being the highest governing spiritual body for Tibetan people! 


It is what they should do and focus on since day one. They just hide behind Shugden issue and did not do their best to improve the living quality of their citizen, worse is that they create disharmony and doubt between their people.

Thanks Namdrol for all the interesting news found online. We should focus on our lineage practices and keep it alive by transforming our mind and rely on Shugden strongly.

triesa

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Re: Maybe CTA should look into this Chinese Tantra Buddhism Organization?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2012, 06:43:12 AM »
I agree with Big Uncle that there is nothing much CTA can do for buddhist sects that are established outside the Tibetan community of India. Also, we are not in a position to judge the authenticity of this Chinese Tantra Buddhism Organization in Australia. Afterall, a name is a name, the yellow hat does bear resemblance to the Gelug Sect, but the robes are totally different and can be differentiated easily.

On the note of the CTA, I do think they are making some progress on the DS ban issue. Recently, Namdrol also posted this new thread where by it was found that all the topics regarding DS has been removed from the offical website of CTA. Check the link below.

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1739.0

This is definitely some rejoicing news to see and hear!

And I believe the current CTA is understanding the real picture now. Afterall, even Samdong Rinpoche, the ex Kolan Tripa of TGIE (now CTA), was himself a DS practitioner, (it was also said Samdong Rinpoche is also an enmanation of Dorje Shugden). He said not too long ago in an interview that he was strictly following Trijang Rinpoche, his Guru's intruction to serve the Dalai Lama well, which he did during his tenure as kolan Tripa. So whatever he did during his term as the prime minister of TGIE, it was strictly following his Guru, Trijang Rinpoche's instruction only.

I am hopeful Dr Lobsang Sangay, the present Kolan Tripaof CTA, will slowly relax the pressure for DS practitioners, afterall this is the 21st century, how he runs CTA is being watched and observed by heads of other countries. And the language spoken in the 21st century is freedom of religion, freedom of human rights. Why prosecute your own people because of a difference in belief in one dharma protector and accept all the other religions with even more differences in the whole context of the spiritual practices?




Ensapa

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Here's a brief history of all of the Buddhist schools in China. It is good that we learn up and understand so that we  know how to spread Dorje Shugden more effectively and also on how Dorje Shugden can help compliment them.

Quote
Chinese Buddhism - an overview

This article provides a brief history of the origin, development and decline of Buddhism in China and various schools of Chinese Buddhism that flourished in its long history till recent times.

Buddhism entered China a few centuries after the passing away of the Buddha, at a time when Confucianism and Taoism were the predominant religions in a country that was as a big as a continent and rivaled India in historical antiquity and cultural pluralism. In the early phases of its entry, Buddhism did not find many adherents in China. But by the 2nd Century AD, aided to some extent by the simplicity of its approach and some similarities with Taoism, it managed to gain a firm foothold and acquired a sizeable following.

The arrival of many new Buddhist scholars from the Indian subcontinent and central Asia, like An Shih-Kao, a Parthinian monk, and Lokakshema, a Kushana monk from Central Asia gave an impetus to the new religion that had many attractive features besides an inbuilt organizational approach to the study and pursuit of religion. During the same period many Buddhist texts were translated from Pali and Sanskrit into Chinese.

The collapse of Han dynasty around 220 AD,  was followed by a period of confusion which continued to trouble Chinese society for the next 350 years. During this period Confucianism and Taoism gradually yielded place to  Buddhism. The new Mongolian rulers of China from the Northern Wei dynasty and some rulers in the south like Emperor Wu found in Buddhism a great opportunity to demolish the old order and establish a new one. As a result by 6th Century AD, China was teaming with millions of Buddhist monks and thousands of monasteries.

During this turbulent period in China, two major developments took place in Buddhism. One group consisting mostly of the sophisticated gentry dwelled on the philosophical and mystical aspects of Buddhism, while the other group dominated by rural folk followed Buddhism in their own superstitious and simple ways imparting to it in the process a peculiar Chinese Character. 

During this period many Buddhist scholars came to China from the east and worked selflessly to make Buddhism a mass religion. Notable among them were scholars like Dharmaraksha (3rd Century AD)  Kumarajiva (4th Century AD), who got a number of Buddhist texts translated into Chinese. By this time China produced its own eminent Buddhist scholars with extraordinary vision like Seng-Chao, Tao-Sheng and Fa-hsien who also contributed richly to the growth of Buddhism China through their translations.

Between the 6th Century AD and 10th Century AD China was ruled by Sui and T'ang dynasties who were also patrons of Buddhism. During this period Buddhism reached its glorious heights in China. At the same time the process of degeneration also began. Many Buddhist monasteries turned to serious business and indulged in farming, trade and money lending for their own benefit neglecting the spiritual side of their responsibilities. Strangely, in a very uncharacteristic way, the Buddhist monasteries cultivated the farm lands, ran mills and oil presses using slave labor and low ranking monks and hoarded vast amounts of precious stones and metals. They also indulged in pawn brokering and money lending.

Many new schools of Buddhism also emerged in China during this period. Each school  derived its authority from some ancient Buddhist text or doctrine. Some of these schools spread to countries like Korea and Japan and contributed to the emergence of Buddhism as the predominant religion.

The fall of Buddhism began during the reign of a Chinese Emperor Wu-Tsung (841-847). Probably noticing the greed that characterized many monasteries, he ordered for the general destruction of all Buddhist establishments and  return of all Buddhist monks and nuns to lay life. This shook the foundations of Buddhism though it did not destroy it. Emperor Wu dismantled the greedy monasteries probably to fill his own coffers, but not Buddhism. However his actions definitely reversed the fortunes of Buddhism in China and sowed the seeds of its decline .

From 11th Century onwards, China witnessed the reemergence of Confucianism and revival of people's interest in their traditional religions. By their own excesses and neglect of their primary duties, the Buddhist monasteries became the contributory factors to the declining popularity of Buddhism. During the same period the Buddhism faced tremendous challenges from the increasing popularity of Brahmanism and the aggressive policies of the Islamic rulers of the Indian subcontinent.

These new developments in the land of the Buddha had a direct impact on the fortunes of Buddhism in China since for a very long period the monks from the subcontinent provided a recurring source of inspiration and information to their brethren in China. This decline contributed greatly to the slackening of standards in the recruitment of monks and  the emergence of some decadent schools of Buddhism. These schools deviated from the original rules prescribed by the Buddha for monastic discipline among the brethren and  emphasized the need for exploring the lighter side of life in the practice of Buddhism instead of sorrow and suffering. One prominent example was the emergence of Pu-Tai, or the Laughing Buddha. He was but a decadent version of the exalted and highly revered Maitreyi Buddha.

The Yuan dynasty that came to power in 1280 adopted Lamaism as their state religion. It was the Tibetan version of Buddhism which gained ascendance in the mountainous country following the emergence of Vajrayana Buddhism in eastern India. During this period some secret schools of Buddhism also emerged in China. They believed in the future advent of Maitreya and the emergence of new world order. These schools practiced martial arts like Kungfu and sometimes indulged in the petty politics of the local warlords.

Although Buddhism lost most of its dynamism and vibrancy by the 20th century, it continued to flourish in China till the advent of the Communism. As is well known, the emergence of  communism sounded the death knell of Buddhism. The Communist government of China did succeed officially in putting an end to the practice of religion by abolishing all forms of public worship and closing down all the monasteries.

The excesses of cultural revolution put an end to whatever hopes the followers of Buddhism had about its revival. Today Buddhism in China is a relic of the past, an ancient monument that has been ravaged and vandalized by the clash of classes and ideological notions. It is really difficult to say how long it would take for the cycle of Dhamma to regain its supremacy and whether it would ever happen at all.

Chinese Schools of Buddhism

The principal schools of Buddhism which flourished in China were:

1. The Vinaya School (Lu-tsung)

2. The Realistic School (Chu-she)

3. The Three Treatises School (San-lun)

4.The Idealist School (Fa-hsiang)

5. The Mantra or Tantric School (Mi-tsung or Chen-yen)

6. The Avatamsaka or Flower Adornment School (Hua-yen)

7. The T'ien-t'ai or White Lotus School (Fa-hua)

8. The Pure Land School (Ching t'u)

9. The Dhyana School (Ch'an)

1. The Vinaya School (Lu-tsung): As the name suggests, this school concentrated upon the monastic discipline (Vinaya) of the Buddhist monks and adhered strictly to do's and don'ts prescribed for them in the Vinaya Pitaka. This school was said to have been founded by Tao-hsuan  in the 7th Century AD. 

2. The Realistic School (Chu-she): This school derived its inspiration from the Abhidhamma Kosha of Vasubhandu (316-396), a Peshawar based Indian monk who was originally a Sarvasthivadin and was faithful to the original teachings of the Buddha. In course of time it became a part of the latter day Idealist school.

3. The Three Treatises School (San-lun): This school followed the teachings of  the Madhyamika sutras of the famous south Indian Buddhist monk, Nagarjuna who is remembered by history for his Sunyavada or the theory of Absolute emptiness. His approach to the notions of reality was akin to the Upanishadic idea of  non-self and the doctrines of the Advaita or non dualistic schools of Hinduism. His ideas were brought to China by Kumarajiva  (549-623)  through the translation of the Sutras, which were later expounded in the form of commentaries by Chih-Tsang (549-623). Chih-Tsnag argued in one of his works that  it would be possible to understand metaphysical truths only through negation of things in view of the limitations of the mind to understand transcendental reality. This school also derived its inspiration from  the Shata Shastra (The treaties of Hundred Scriptures) of Aryadeva. With the emergence of the Idealistic school, this school suffered a decline. It was later revived in the 7th Century AD by an Indian monk called Suryaprbhasa.

4.The Idealist School (Fa-hsiang): This school was founded on the ideals of Yogachara school of Vasubhandu as expounded in his Vimsatika- Karika or the Book of Twenty Verses. The school became popular because of Hsuan-Tsang (596-664) who traveled to India in the 7th Century AD to collect original Buddhist texts and bring them back to China. Hsuan Tsang was an adventurous monk who combined in himself the traits of a monk as well as inveterate traveler. Undaunted by the task ahead of him and driven by his goal to see the land of the Buddha, Hsuan-Tsang travelled to India by a circuitous route via the Silk Road through the perilious terrain of the north western frontires, and reached the University of Nalanda in eastern India after a great hardship. He spent considerable time there in the study of the Yogachara philosophy under the guidance of a teacher called Silabhadra. From there he went to the court of the famous Indian king by name Harshavardhana, who was a powerful but generous ruler of his times and ruled parts of northern and eastern India. He developed a great liking for the Chinese monk and insisted him to stay in his court for several years. Hsuan-Tsang complied with the king's request and stayed in his court for a few years before resuming his journey. He returned to to China after many hardships, and managed to carry with him a huge collection of about 650 Buddhist texts and some Buddha relics. He spent the rest of his life in the translation of the texts and in spreading the teachings of Vasubhandu. Despite of the fact that the translations he arranged were not superior in quality, Hsuan-Tsang earned a place for himself in the history of China by his unique contribution to the development of Chinese Buddhism. Through his familiarity with the teachings of Vasubhandu, he made the Idealist School one of the most popular schools of Buddhism in ancient China.

5. The Mantra or Tantric School (Mi-tsung or Chen-yen): This is the Chinese version of Tantric Buddhism. It flourished in China for less tha  a hundred years, starting with the arrival of Subhakarasimha(637-735) from India during the reign of T'ang dynasty. Subhakarasimha translated the Mahavairochana Sutra which expounded the Tantric teachings. Two other monks who played a key role in the growth of Tantric Buddhism in China were Vajrabodhi (670-741) introduced the concept of Mandalas to the Chinese, while Amoghavajra said to have initiated three T'ang emperors into Tantricism. the Tantric school of Buddhism believed in magic, incantations, drawing of mandalas, casting of spells and elaborate and often secret rituals. The school was later replaced by Lamaism, which was a more popular version of Tantricism.

6. The Avatamsaka or Flower Adornment School (Hua-yen): This school flourished in China for about 200 years, starting from the 7th Century AD and attracted the attention of the famous Empress Wu (690-705). It was based upon the teachings of the Buddha as contained in the Avatamsaka Sutra. The followers of this school believed that the sutra contained the most complex teachings of the Buddha, not comprehensible to ordinary followers. The Avatamsaka school expounded a cosmic view of the universe containing the two principal aspects of the reality,  namely li and shih, an approach which is in some ways resembles the concept of  Purusha (spiritual) and Prakriti (physical) of Hinduism, adopted later on by the Tantric schools. It also believed that in each and every aspect the cosmic reality reflected the same relationships and balance of forces, signifying the ultimate truth of one in all and all in one. The school was founded by Tu-shun, whose commentary of Avatamsaka, known as Ha-chieh Kuan, (Contemplating the Dharmadhatu) provided the necessary background for the emergence of this school in the Buddhist world. He was followed by four patriarchs, Chihyen(602-668), Fa-tsang (exact period unknown), Chiangling(738-838) and Tsung-mi(780-841).

7. The T'ien-t'ai or White Lotus School (Fa-hua): Like the Avatamsaka school, the White Lotus School also was based upon the highest teachings of the Buddha, but compared to the former, provided a more a elaborate view of the cosmic reality. It was founded by a Chinese monk by name Chih-i (538-597) who lived in Chekiang province of China, and formed his doctrines on the basis of the Saddharma-pundarika sutra, an  ancient Buddhist text, which he believed to be the vehicle of all other truths. According to this school, Truth operated from three levels or aspects. At one extreme was the void or emptiness, the unknown or the non self, about which nothing much could be speculated except talking in terms of negation and denial. At the other extreme was temporariness that was in reality nothingness but would manifest itself temporarily or momentarily because of the activity of the senses, as some kind of an illusion or as an image on the film screen. The third level is a middle state, 'middle' for our understanding, but not necessarily middle, 'different' for our understanding but not necessarily different,  because it  unites the two and presents them together as the one Highest Truth. These three levels of truth are also not separate or different from each other. They are the aspects of the same reality, that is universal as well as ubiquitous. The school advocated the practice of concentration and insight (chih and kuan) to understand the transience of things and attain the Buddha Mind in which the above mentioned three aspects of Truth reside in perfect harmony. Chih-i said to have become very popular during his life time and caught the attention of the emperor who donated the revenues of a district for the maintenance of his monastery. The While Lotus School was introduced into Japan in the 9th century AD and  became popular as Tendai.

8. The Pure Land School (Ching t'u): This school was founded by Hui-yuan (334-416), who was originally a Taoist. It was based upon the teachings of the Mahayana school and the belief in the Bodhisattvas, the highest beings, who were next to the Buddha in the order and just a step away from salvation, but would postpone their own salvation for the sake of others. This school worshipped Amitabha and sought his grace for deliverance from this world under the notion that salvation could not be gained on ones own efforts (jiriki) but with the help of the other power (tariki), the grace of Amitabha. The school practiced devotional forms of worship and regular chanting of O-mi-to-fo (the Chinese rendering of Amitabha) as the means to salvation. It followed the teachings contained in the Smaller and Larger Sukhavati-vyuha sutras. The school was subsequently introduced into Korea and Japan where it flourished under three different names.

9. The Dhyana School (Ch'an): This was the most popular of the Chinese schools of Buddhism, which became popular in Japan and later in the west as Zen Buddhism. Chan was a "way of seeing into the nature of ones own being." (D.T.Suzuki). Though it was introduced into China by an Indian monk by name Bodhidharma, around 520 AD, Chan was essentially a product of Chinese character, which unlike the Indian, evolved out of the practical and down to earth philosophy of life. Chan rejected book learning as the basis of enlightenment, set aside all notions and theories of suffering and salvation, and relied upon day to day events, simple thinking and ordinary living as the means to enlightenment. Enlightenment descended upon one as a sudden shift in awareness, not because of elaborate study of the Buddhist sutras, exposition of the philosophies,  nor worship of the images of the Buddha but from a sudden shift in the paradigm, from an instantaneous chasm in the process of thought, from a kind of Eureka experience, characterized by a sudden opening of the mind and removal of a veil, after years of silent waiting and steady preparation. The Chan school discouraged the intellectual kind of pursuit of religion as it believed that any scholarly approach would tend to stiffen the mind and prevent it from experiencing the sudden flowering of Chan.

Although the Chan masters did not encourage preoccupation with scriptural studies, they encouraged the initiates to study the basic Chan scriptures like the  Lankavatarasutra,  the Vimalakritinirdesa,  the Vajracchedika Sutras and some additional Chan texts as a a part of their preparation for the subsequent stages of observing into the nature of things. By denigrating the scriptural knowledge, the Chan masters therefore were not promoting illiteracy, but were preparing the students to free themselves from opinionated intellectuality and scholarly affectations to emerge into a world of notionless observations.

The word 'chan' is a corrupt form of the Sanskrit word, 'dhyana' meaning concentrated meditation or contemplation. Dhyana was an essential aspect of Chan Buddhism aimed to develop inner stillness and accumulation of chi energy among the practitioners. But what Chan encouraged, more than the mechanical aspects of meditation, was the development of an unfettered and detached mind, that would not cling to anything and would not rest anywhere and would flow with the flow of life, gathering nothing and gaining nothing. Chan Buddhism did not place too much emphasis on meditation, unlike the Zen Buddhism of Japan, but on finding the Buddha mind in the most mundane tasks and conversations of day to day life. In short, Chan made living a deeply religious act aimed to break the encrusted layers of thought.

Chan Buddhism underwent a schism during the 7th century resulting in the formation of two rival school, a southern school led by Hui-neng and a northern school led by Shenhsiu. While the northern school disappeared over a period of time, the Southern school underwent further sub-divisions resulting in the formation of five Houses and seven sub sects of which two survived. One was Lin-chi (Jap. Rinzai) and Tsao-tung(Jap.Soto).

Chan Buddhism influenced Chinese way of life profoundly. The Chan art became famous in ancient China for its spontaneity and simplicity of expression. But with the decline of Buddhism in China, Chan also gradually retreated into remote monasteries and gradually lost its appeal.




dsiluvu

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ermm...I don't know how to begin, but I just found this in some Chinese forum, it is an organization in Australia called Chinese Han Tantrayana Buddhism - Holy Tantra Jin-Gang-Dhyana Buddhism...something like, even the name is confusing, but looks like it has something to do with Vajrayana/Tibetan Buddhism.

I am not in a position to judge another guru/organization so I will not comment on their authenticity, but from the physical outlook, it is quite unorthodox if it is a Vajrayana group.

Since it could be Vajrayana, then perhaps the CTA should look into it? Didn't CTA persecute Geshe Michael Roach for his long hair and other stuff a few years ago? And I think this Chinese Tantra Organization surpasses Geshe Michael Roach's "weird look" by miles?

And what about the Tsongkhapa-hat-look-alike thingy? Can CTA please kindly write to them and ask them not use a hat similar to Gelugpa's yellow hat because it may create confusion to the public? Please help us to protect the purity of Gelugpa's image will you CTA since you are the Vajrayana's highest authority?

Since CTA is so engrossed to be a religious police in Vajrayana, can CTA pls go check this organization out? Give the Shugden monks a break will you? At least Shugden monks still wear proper monks' robes, hold their vows, do their pujas, serve their gurus...

I will keep looking out for organizations like this for CTA to keep them busy, so that they can leave Shugden monks alone for a while...



NAMDROL you are HILARIOUS... this perhaps the funniest and most exciting thing I've read thus far on this FORUM! LOVE IT!!! CTA should thank you for your hard work! Though really they have no jurisdiction to poke their noses in a different land/territory. But that has some how never stopped them for policing us Shugdenpas.

I remember when I was holidaying in Singapore one time, there was this YELLOW BOOK that were placed in several strategic center around Singapore... they even got it translated in to Chinese! Well this is the kind of ways that the CTA poke their noses and centres that like to rub shoulder with His Holiness to get fame and sponsorships do, could do to make other people's life difficult even though it is not in their jurisdiction to do so. Many accounts of such negative experiences, really you cannot even practice Dorje Shugden freely even though you are outside of Dharamsala. There are many centers who will judge, ban and condemned you, sometimes even smear your name to others saying you worship a "demon" hence you cannot even enter their center or events! Down right religious discrimination! Have you seen on of the post on this forum about
Dorje Shugden practitioners are drug traffickers? http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1543.0

Basically a statement was put out in every forms of Amitabha Buddhist Center, Singapore (http://www.fpmtabc.org/), whether it is a trip to attend Dalai Lama's teaching in South East Asia, Kalachakra, or a trip to Dharamsala. On top of name, passpost number, addresses etc personal details, you need to declare that you do not practice Dorje Shugden first. 

So yeah, not only our dear sanghas in Dharamsala are going through injustice, we outside of India and Nepal are also going through such ridiculousness which why it is high time we put a stop to such injustice. And we shall do so by working harder to educated anyone who crosses our path on Dorje Shugden.

Thank you Namdrol for saying it! CTA why don't you look at those who are more weird then the Shugden practitioners?

Vajraprotector

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I don't think CTA can do much, especially when it comes to persecution, how and with what authority can they exercise such power?

In my personal opinion, CTA is merely parroting His Holiness' reasons to ban Shugden practice. If they really want to head towards the direction of democracy, why not have a meeting with the monasteries and high lamas and vote whether or not the ban is necessary or even make sense? Perhaps debate it out?

By the way, Shugden practitioners do not cause harm (ok, there were some loud protests around the world by WSS), whereas groups and organisations out there that perhaps are misleading the public or their lineage appears to be a bit suspicious, I don't think CTA spend time to find out, nor it is under their jurisdiction to do anything about it.

Tibetan Buddhism doesn't belong to CTA, however they want to think. It is nevertheless their best export to the world and His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the best spokesperson, but it doesn't have to remain so.

Also, I do agree that this group is quite unorthodox. Some info about this group from their website: http://www.jingangdhyanaincnet.org/

Holy Tantra Jin Gang Dhyana Buddhism is Chinese Han transmission of Tantrayana Buddhism (previously called TangTantra).

It claimed that their tradition was a merge of three transmission from the ancestral masters of
Great Holy Jewel Nagna Hutuktu (Tibetan transmission)
Great Holy Jewel Dilouhua Hutuktu (Mongolian transmission)
Great Holy Jewel Jing Wu Great Dharma Lord (Han transmission)

And that the Heir of modern times (of course!) is: Holy Zhi Ji Vimalakirti Ahdharma Buddha The Most Venerable Patriarch Master WANG

It was said that the three transmissions merging to one in the twenties of the twentieth century took place at Ling Jiu Sheng Mi Tian, Peak Fei Lai, Hang Zhou, China.

After extermination of Buddhism by Wu Zong Emperor of Tang Dynasty (841-846), Chinese Han transmission Tantrayana completely concealed underground, relinquished temples to mingle with the common people, abandoned Sangha jewel form, giving up oneself for Dharma, sacrificing oneself to deliver sentient beings, concealed without revealing identity, conveniently followed conditions, established outdoor mandala which are called Sheng Mi Tian. Ling Jiu Sheng Mi Tian in Hang Zhou is one of the hundreds Sheng Mi Tian in China.

Aurore

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CTA may not have the authority over others outside of Tibetan community of India, however they have done a lot to destroy reputations of certain lamas which creates a rippling effect to other mindless Vajrayana/Buddhist councils around the world.

One classic example is an event held by Jamseng Rinpoche in Malaysia which created bad press and publicity by the Malaysian Buddhist Consultative Council (MBCC). Apparently, MBCC cannot verify the authenticity of its Buddhist lineage. They are obviously referring to the Shugden practice and any centres who practices Shugden is a cult!
See the news write up here --->http://blackandwhite999.blogspot.com/2010/12/press-statement-on-buddha-relics.html.

It is pretty ridiculous to claim that the exhibition would be anything but authentic coming from an authentic monk like Jamseng Rinpoche who is one of the highest-ranking Lamas and is recognized by Serkong Tritul Rinpoche, a great Lineage holder of the Kadampa School of Tibetan Buddhism.

Below are his emanations and incarnations:
- An emanation of Avalokiteshvara
- A reincarnation of Dromtonpa, the great Kadampa master.
- An emanation of Mahasiddha Mahipa (one of the 84 Mahasiddhas of India)
- A reincarnation of Dromtonpa (Founder of Kadampa Lineage)
- A reincarnation of Phagpa the Imperial Preceptor to the Emperor of the Yuan Dynasty
- A reincarnation of Jamyang Choje Tashi Palden (Founder of Drepung Monastery)

His Holiness the 18th Dromtug Rinpoche is a Geshe in both Sutra and Tantra Buddhism, which is equivalent to a double Degree in Sutra and Tantra Buddhism. His Holiness is a lineage holder of many rare uncommon lineages. Rinpoche has perfect Dharma lineages that stem from Je Tsongkhapa, such as the lineages of the Lamrim, the four classes of Tantra, the four empowerments of the maha-yoga practice, and Rinpoche has attained perfect practices and realizations through these Tantric practices.

There are politics involved everywhere and not only within the Indian community. CTA ... please focus on organizations that looks weird rather than lamas which are proven authentic already. If this will get them off their case, then I support Namdrol to continue scouting.  ::)


Ensapa

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Re: Maybe CTA should look into this Chinese Tantra Buddhism Organization?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2012, 12:10:56 PM »
Interesting statements, but I do have some comments to add to them:

I don't think CTA can do much, especially when it comes to persecution, how and with what authority can they exercise such power?
They do it by spreading untruths and the wrong idealogies and influencing others to believe that Dorje Shugden is bad and Dorje Shugden Lamas such as Pabongkha Rinpoche is bad by twisted logic and biased reasoning. They also do it with influencing deluded lay practitioners into thinking that they are the authoritative representatives of Tibetan Buddhism as mentioned in the case below.  And they have succeeded.

In my personal opinion, CTA is merely parroting His Holiness' reasons to ban Shugden practice. If they really want to head towards the direction of democracy, why not have a meeting with the monasteries and high lamas and vote whether or not the ban is necessary or even make sense? Perhaps debate it out?
And the reason why they do that is because it is much more easier to comply with the ban thanto stand up and challenge the Dalai Lama and convince him that the ban is wrong. Actually, i believe that HHDL wants that secretly because he always pairs his explanations on why Dorje Shugden is bad to that we always need to check the advice of our teachers. But neverthenless, he is dissapointed.

By the way, Shugden practitioners do not cause harm (ok, there were some loud protests around the world by WSS), whereas groups and organisations out there that perhaps are misleading the public or their lineage appears to be a bit suspicious, I don't think CTA spend time to find out, nor it is under their jurisdiction to do anything about it.

Tibetan Buddhism doesn't belong to CTA, however they want to think. It is nevertheless their best export to the world and His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the best spokesperson, but it doesn't have to remain so.
It does not, but CTA seems to have some form of control over it and is able to influence many "mainstream" centers to follow their policies. These mainstream centers and councils in each country were not formed for the benefit of the people but to spread fear and mistrust amongst the Buddhists. Luckily, there are stil smart people who can see past this and not follow the machinations of the CTA.

Also, I do agree that this group is quite unorthodox. Some info about this group from their website: http://www.jingangdhyanaincnet.org/

Holy Tantra Jin Gang Dhyana Buddhism is Chinese Han transmission of Tantrayana Buddhism (previously called TangTantra).

It claimed that their tradition was a merge of three transmission from the ancestral masters of
Great Holy Jewel Nagna Hutuktu (Tibetan transmission)
Great Holy Jewel Dilouhua Hutuktu (Mongolian transmission)
Great Holy Jewel Jing Wu Great Dharma Lord (Han transmission)

And that the Heir of modern times (of course!) is: Holy Zhi Ji Vimalakirti Ahdharma Buddha The Most Venerable Patriarch Master WANG

It was said that the three transmissions merging to one in the twenties of the twentieth century took place at Ling Jiu Sheng Mi Tian, Peak Fei Lai, Hang Zhou, China.

After extermination of Buddhism by Wu Zong Emperor of Tang Dynasty (841-846), Chinese Han transmission Tantrayana completely concealed underground, relinquished temples to mingle with the common people, abandoned Sangha jewel form, giving up oneself for Dharma, sacrificing oneself to deliver sentient beings, concealed without revealing identity, conveniently followed conditions, established outdoor mandala which are called Sheng Mi Tian. Ling Jiu Sheng Mi Tian in Hang Zhou is one of the hundreds Sheng Mi Tian in China.



Vajrayana in China still survives, but the lineage given is (sorry!) dubious to say :(. Their lineage is actually the same as the Mahayana lineage that starts with Nagajurna in india, Bodhidharma in China and all the way to the 6th Patriarch Hui Neng. The term "patriarch" actually refers to lineage Guru. So, their main lineage should start from them. It is said that Hui Neng held the lineages for all 5 schools of Buddhism in China, and somehow all of his lineages were transmitted to Hsu Yun (root Guru of Hsuan Hua) who transmitted it Hsuan Hua. Below is Hsuan Hua's explanation of Chinese Vajrayana which he calls it the Secret School:

Quote
The Secret School derives its name from the fact that the response that one receives from the power of reciting mantras is secret. No one can tell you about it. You must cultivate it yourself and then you will know the mantra’s influence for yourself; just as when you drink water you yourself know whether it is warm or cold. It is not that the mantras themselves are secret.

The Secret School specializes in holding mantras. Mantras have the following four meanings:

1. All mantras are the names of god and ghost kings. When you recite the names of the god and ghost kings, the small gods and ghosts are well-behaved, and do not dare to cause you trouble. Why? It is because they wonder, “How do you know our ghost king? How do you know our god king?”

2. Mantras are also like a soldier’s password. In the army there is a different password every day. Only your own people know it and the people outside do not. Let’s say the password is “victory”. If you meet a soldier whom you do not know, then you ask him what the password is. If he says “victory”, then you say “right”. You know that he is one of us. But if you ask him the password and he says “lucky”, you know that he is not one of us. Mantras work the same way. As soon as the gods and ghosts hear you recite the mantra, they say, “Oh, that is our password,” so they are all well-behaved. Otherwise they would want to fight with you.

3. Mantras are a kind of secret language, which only certain people understand. An analogy will make this clear. Suppose there is a person who is very poor and lowly. He goes abroad where people do not know him. He tells them, “I am the king of a certain country, but the generals revolted and there was a change of government. I secretly escaped and came to this country.” The king of this country really does not know whether he is genuine or not. He is a phony, but the king thinks that he is genuine, so he gives him one of the princesses for a wife. This makes him a prince, a member of the king’s household. He was not a king before, but he acts like it. Day in and day out he is always losing his temper.

Then a person comes to this country who knows that this impostor was a poor and lowly person, and says to the princess who is married to him, “When he gets angry, you need only say these few sentences: ‘Originally you were a poor and lowly person who drifted in from another country far away. Why must you have such a big temper?’ As soon as you say this, he will know, ‘Oh, she knows my humble origins,’ and will not get angry anymore.” A mantra has the same effect. As soon as you recite the mantra, the gods and ghosts will assume that you understand their origins, that you know what they are all about, and so they will not dare to cause you trouble.

4. Mantras are the mind-imprint of all Buddhas. “Mind-imprint” alludes to the way in which the minds of two enlightened beings interact and acknowledge each other. They are the secret language of all Buddhas which can only be known by them. Because all other living beings do not understand them, mantras are left untranslated.

In the Sutras it clearly explains that people who keep mantras must very carefully uphold the moral regulations. For example, the Buddha, in the Shurangama Sutra, gave these instructions on what is required for mantra cultivation:

To do so, they must find as their teacher a foremost Shramana (Bhikshu) who is pure in the precepts. If they do not encounter a member of the Sangha who is truly pure, then it is absolutely certain that their deportment in moral precepts cannot be perfected. After perfecting the precepts, they should put on fresh, clean clothes, light incense in a place where they are alone, and recite the spiritual mantra spoken by the Buddha of the mind one hundred and eight times.


He also mentions in brief, the 5 main schools in China. Tientai should be under the secret schooi.

Quote
Mantra study and practice comes under the province of the Secret School, one of the five major divisions or “schools” of the Buddha’s teachings. The five schools are:

1. The Chan School.
2. The Teaching (Scholastic) School.
3. The Vinaya (Ethics) School.
4. The Secret School.
5. The Pure Land School.


from: http://cttbusa.org/buddhism_brief_introduction/chapter8.asp