Author Topic: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama  (Read 12259 times)

Damian.D

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Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« on: June 07, 2011, 06:58:21 AM »
I don't want to become one of these people that goes into the details about what does it mean, is it anything, should I seek answers further. Just want to know is there anything someone has heard in a teaching or read somewhere.

I have been told that everything in dreams are just manifestation of the mind, so don't read too much into them. Don't want to be another crazy in the end.

Would like to think its always nice to dream of one's Lama.

hope rainbow

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2011, 12:05:55 PM »
I don't want to become one of these people that goes into the details about what does it mean, is it anything, should I seek answers further. Just want to know is there anything someone has heard in a teaching or read somewhere.
I have been told that everything in dreams are just manifestation of the mind, so don't read too much into them. Don't want to be another crazy in the end.
Would like to think its always nice to dream of one's Lama.

I learnt a long dedication prayers in tibetan and by heart because I was severely scolded in a dream by my guru for not knowing it.
The funny thing is that it happened before I even met him (though I knew of him already).
I actually learnt it because I wanted to avoid experiencing that wrath for real!
Did my dream mean anything? Maybe not, but it made me learn a powerful dedication prayer. That's the power of a dream!

DSFriend

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2011, 05:04:34 PM »
Dear Hope Rainbow
I'd do the same if I were you! Thanks for sharing.  ;)

Damian
I have read that it is good to have dreams about one's lama.

I am not one to remember my dreams .... i can count the number of times I remember them. More than often, the dreams I remember are not pleasant dreams and the few pleasant ones are of my lama...which I vaguely remember now. Isn't it sad!

What does our dreams mean and how much should we investigate on them? I have received advice in general regarding dreams, to not focus on them too much but to focus on study, meditations, engaging in virtuous works is best.... or directly ask our lama if we are fortunate to have one, or senior students. These are more reliable sources to guide us than our dreams.

dsiluvu

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2011, 07:48:58 PM »
Dear Damian,

I think it depends on what the Lama is doing to you??? Did you get a nice feeling in the end or a bad one? I haven't read anywhere either but I've been told by my Lama that it is always GOOD if you dreamt of your Lama especially washing his feet or cleaning his body, house (represent his mandala). If the Lama is scolding you, he is purifying you... in a way it is good also.

Dreams from what I've read is your subconscious mind or subtle mind working. Some people call it astral travelling. And I've also heard in higher practices, if one is very good and in control one can actually travel at the speed of thoughts and can even go in to different dimensions. But you have to be very careful because if you are unfamiliar or without proper guidance, sometimes you can get stuck, you may see other beings who sees you and tries to stop you from getting back to your body. Hence it is adviced not to get in to this unless you have your Guru to guide you. 

Does this help?


Helena

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2011, 04:27:32 PM »
I have to agree with DS Friend here.

There are more important things to rely on than dreams.

For example, what would be the point of dreaming of our Lamas and having all these seemingly holy dreams but in real life we do not even listen to what our Guru advises us to do or just follow our Guru's teachings.

Just having dreams of our Gurus or anything holy or anyone does not at all help us become better people. It is what we do in our day to day practice.

Hope Rainbow's sharing is very relevant here - in his dream, he was scolded but because of the dream, he did something positive in his real life. And learning the Dedication Prayer by heart does benefit him, after all. So, he has chosen to do something real that would help him further and not just rely on his dreams alone.

He could very well choose to do nothing and then he would have gained nothing as well.

At the end of the day, how dreams really help us is measurable and seen in our real every day lives when we are awake.
If everything begins and ends in our dreams, then that is all we will have - just dreams.
Hence, in our every day lives, we gain nothing real.


Helena

Damian.D

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 09:14:41 AM »
Thanks everyone for your views and thoughts on the matter.

Yes agree totally with @Helena, that we begin and end in a dream and that nothing is real. How to convince myself I am in a dream, since dreams don't have consequences or so it seems.

1. In a dream we could commit negative actions due to a belief that it causes nobody harm, or does it?

What is real then if even in a our day to day state is considered not real also, sounds like we are bordering on "emptiness" yet I know nothing of it or where to begin to understand "emptiness".

DSFriend

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 12:38:12 PM »

1. In a dream we could commit negative actions due to a belief that it causes nobody harm, or does it?




Your question got me curious to search for an answer. this is what I came across. What do you guys think?

Does it affect our karma to engage in negative actions during dreams?

Source from FPMT's site: http://www.fpmt.org/education/programs/discovering-buddhism/faq/360-faq-module-6-page-2.html

A student writes:

Buddhism states that intention is everything. Our motivations need to be positive, our intentions good in order to plant virtuous seeds in our karma. Bad intentions or motivations plant negative seeds that will later ripen.

But what about dreams? In dreams sometimes we do terrible things, with horrible intentions, and wake wondering . . . Was that really me?? Do these dream intentions affect our karma at all? They can be really intense and so real, it seems like they would have an impact on the mind. I know sometimes they are very disturbing they feel so real.

T. Y. responds:

…I sent your email to a friend, Jampa Ignyen. JI has been the tutor for the Basic Program at Chenrezig Institute on several occasions, studied for many years at Sera Monastery up to the point of being able to take his geshe exams which he decided not to do, got his PhD in Australia last year with a dissertation on Abhidharma...in other words, a highly qualified Australian.

He replied:

"This is certainly a favourite topic of debate. In general it is regarded that dreams are wrong awareness (log shes) since the objects that appear in dreams do not exist though they appear to be real. For instance in a lucid dream one realizes it is a dream though the vivid appearance of its reality is compelling. Though dreams are illusory they can have a message, or teach us important things, or be 'true,' it is just that the landscape is fictitious.

"Actions committed in relation to illusory dream objects are incomplete actions because the four parts of an action: motivation, basis, preparation and conclusion are incomplete. Here since the actual basis or the object in relation to which the action is committed does not exist only three parts of the action are possible. For instance if one kills a dog thinking it is a human one does not obtain the karma of killing a human, since the object is not a human. If one kills a dream human it is not actually killing a human since a dream human is not a human etc. Or if one were to shoot the image of a human on a movie screen thinking it was really a person, one would not be killing a human. In these cases the discrimination or recognition of the object is incorrect, and it must be correct to complete the four parts of an action. However since three parts of an action form a significant measure of a complete action, it has the potency to lay down karmic seeds in the mental continuum especially when the intention is strong. Therefore dream actions are significant. And for that reason in vinaya, actions committed in dreams need also to be purified by applying the four opponent powers etc."

Hope this answers your question.

Best wishes,

Thubten Yeshe

Garry Benson adds:

In terms of karma a dream does not necessarily indicate an intention to commit a bad deed if you dream it - in some cases it represents a deep-seated test of the quality of your vows. The dream simile occurs over and over in the sutras to teach about emptiness - the sutras say, "Dreams are false and illusory." A consciousness perceiving these is nevertheless mistaken because, for example, a mirror image of a face or a dream of a face appears to be a face, but is illusory.

So dreams are classed as imaginary forms.

Dreams appear in the earliest Buddhist writings, and played no less an important role in Buddhism than in our lives today. For example, in the well-known "Vajra (Diamond) Sutra", the Buddha taught that:

"All conditioned dharmas are like a dream, like an illusion, like a bubble, like a shadow, like a dewdrop, like a lightning flash; you should contemplate them thus."

According to the Prasangikas a dream consciousness is solely a mental consciousness appearing in the aspects of the five sense consciousnesses. Dreams symbolise the changing and impermanent nature of all things known to the senses. Sights, sounds, smells, flavors,

sensations of touch and thoughts are all dream-like, fleeting, and ultimately unobtainable.

In "The Great Wisdom That Crosses Over Sutra," Nagarjuna's presentation of dreams represents the available knowledge of third and fourth century India. When Buddhists in India dreamed they dealt with their dreams in a variety of ways. Certain types of dreams occurred frequently enough to the ancients to merit listing as separate categories for dream-analysis.

The categories show the following different kinds of dreams. The most distinctive use, for Buddhists, was

1) seeing dreams as a simile for emptiness, the ultimate nature of all things.

2) seeing dreams as portents of things to come, which overlapped with another type of dream:

3) as messages or teaching by the gods, spirits or bodhisattva.

4) Buddhists in India and in China thought, like Freud and Jung, that it was possible to diagnose aspects of the dreamer's mental and physical health from the symbols of dreams.

5) Buddhist psychologists saw dreams as the return at night of things thought on during the day.

6) Finally, Nagarjuna explained dreams as a standard for testing the quality of a bodhisattva's vows.

Damian.D

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 05:03:25 PM »
Quote
6) Finally, Nagarjuna explained dreams as a standard for testing the quality of a bodhisattva's vows.

This is quite interesting. Never thought of it that way before. I can accept 1-5 for interpretations of the dream state, but number 6. Now that is quite thought provoking.

Just how many times have you been in a dream and while you wouldn't do it in your waking state you give in to your desires, or passions in the dream state and just let go. So if you hold vows during the day, why would you not hold them when asleep?

Now that is quite a hard one to practice, but with knowing what we know now... its pretty much time to put this into practice.

How many refuge vows did you break last night in your dream hmmmmmmm?

Barzin

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 09:20:49 PM »
Never thought of this way before.  Like what Damian D wrote :

"How many refuge vows did you break last night in your dream hmmmmmmm?" 

Even though dream can be seen like illusory, but how Nagarjuna uses it as a standard measure for testing the quality of a bodhisattva's vows is mind provoking...  It is true though, if we are able to control our mind and actions in the day, then why not even when we are sleeping?  That suddenly makes sense to me that a highly attained being is able to control his sleep and his thoughts even when he appear to be sleeping.  How wonderful!  This might be just part of the qualities of a Buddha, simply because Buddha doesn't sleep and always find ways to benefiting people!  Maybe that is why we dream of our lama?

kurava

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2011, 02:16:03 AM »

How many refuge vows did you break last night in your dream hmmmmmmm?


For ordinary people like us, we can give ourselves a pat on the back if we can control all our actions and thoughts when we are awake. When we are asleep, all hells break loose in our minds/ dreams.

Only highly cultivated bodhisattvas can maintain virtuous minds during their sleep . With controlled minds they  continue to accumulate merits  awake and asleep.

Our Lama is the embodiment of the three jewels, all things virtuous. To dream of one's Lama is to acquaint our minds with virtues even in dreams. How wonderful !

Positive Change

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2011, 02:14:06 PM »
Quote
"Actions committed in relation to illusory dream objects are incomplete actions because the four parts of an action: motivation, basis, preparation and conclusion are incomplete. Here since the actual basis or the object in relation to which the action is committed does not exist only three parts of the action are possible. For instance if one kills a dog thinking it is a human one does not obtain the karma of killing a human, since the object is not a human. If one kills a dream human it is not actually killing a human since a dream human is not a human etc. Or if one were to shoot the image of a human on a movie screen thinking it was really a person, one would not be killing a human. In these cases the discrimination or recognition of the object is incorrect, and it must be correct to complete the four parts of an action. However since three parts of an action form a significant measure of a complete action, it has the potency to lay down karmic seeds in the mental continuum especially when the intention is strong. Therefore dream actions are significant. And for that reason in vinaya, actions committed in dreams need also to be purified by applying the four opponent powers etc."

Most interesting indeed! It does actually make a lot of sense as dreams are a result of our mind stream and hence we are 'connected' to our dream state. I guess in a nutshell, the dreams actually came from somewhere. We did not just pluck it out of our consciousness. Interesting to note as well the following:

Quote
6) Finally, Nagarjuna explained dreams as a standard for testing the quality of a bodhisattva's vows.

It really sums up the fact that we cannot hide from even our dreams... it is a part of us and we are accountable. Which brings me to the question of what if we had "bad" dreams and do not remember it? Surely one cannot plead ignorance? How does one purify ones negative karma if one does not even remember committing it? Hhmmmm....

fruven

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2012, 11:08:37 PM »
6) Finally, Nagarjuna explained dreams as a standard for testing the quality of a bodhisattva's vows.

How many refuge vows did you break last night in your dream hmmmmmmm?

Does it mean negative karma do ripen in your dreams thus you're capable of breaking vows? As conditioned are met karma will ripen and dharma seeds will open, therefore you're actually looking at something quite powerful here. You can actually create karma and merits because how you react or respond is another cause which will have an effect. So therefore in your dreams if you treat it as what would happen in real life, and by maintaining good conduct, benefiting others and spreading the Dharma, therefore you accumulate positive karma or merits.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if dharma seeds open during when we are awake because if it only happens in dream it is just a dream? Maybe this is a good trigger or sign because I seldom have dreams, or perhaps I am forgetful I couldn't recall much after I wake up every day. I rejoice at people who have dreams with their Lama because they have much merits which mean they have done much virtuous actions in their previous life and now they are having signs and indicators to point to them clearly in the right directions. As for those don't have much dream including me perhaps we haven't done much virtuous in our last life now is the time to buck up because in somehow we have are born as human and meet the Dharma. ;D

buddhalovely

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2012, 07:02:48 AM »
Tibetans believe that strong signals from our inner consciousness can communicate impending misfortune and good fortune. Many of you reading this will have the gift of great insight, even without you knowing, and these manifest as predictive dreams. Once you become aware of this possibility and start to tune in consciously, you will begin to take notice of your dreams.

Be alert to the possibility that you can indeed be gifted with the ability of clairvoyant dreams, and if so, you can start to consciously try to recall your dreams. In time, you can even predict lucky events for yourself and your family. Remember we are all psychic to some extent, but we need to consciously develop it.

Tibetans all believe in their own capability to do so and are thus very aware of the meanings of the things they dream.

Predictive dreams usually take place just before you wake up at dawn, and such dreams are usually very clear. Like other forms of natural inner divination, they occur as the result of some special dilemma or problem you are trying to deal with inside your head. The symbolism manifested for you is usually easily understood by you yourself instinctively, and you will indeed receive some kind of overall feeling of negative or positive energy.

Ensapa

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2012, 01:17:12 PM »
I had several dreams of my Lama and they were all extremely clear and vivid. All of them lasted a few days in my mind and left a very strong impression in my heart as if they were real events.

The 1st dream occurred when I first met him. I dreamt that there were zombies all over the road and that the town i was staying in was quite deserted. I was walking and strangely i was not afraid of the zombies although they were chasing me. I got into a white van and my lama was inside. I paid my respects and requested him for a method to calm the zombies, and he taught me how to do mandala prayers.

The 2nd dream was when I did some mistakes and damaged my samaya while working for my lama. I dreamt that everyone was invited to a sengdongma initiation, but my lama came in and told me to sit outside while he gave the commentary and initiation to the people in the room. The feeling of being left out was so real, so intense, deep and dark that i was unable to feel anything else for the next few weeks.

The 3rd dream came after my samayavajra retreat. I dreamt of me having an audience with my lama in his old ladrang, and he was very happy to see me and hugged me and told me that my samaya with him is now purified.

The 4th dream was about me being invited to a white container modified into a room, with cheap vinyl carpet and a cheap wooden table. My lama was sitting on the floor with just the table and tantric instruments on the table and he was without any assistants. His students were not my Dharma brothers and sisters, but a group of nepali/tibetan students. When my lama opened his mouth to speak, it was not english, but tibetan.

The last dream I had was seeing my Lama dead in the coffin and the first taught I had was "who is going to teach me the Dharma and train me now?" The feeling of despair was extremely real and again, it lasted for weeks. It was right after that dream that i was determined to quit my day job to join my Dharma center full time to serve my lama.

I dont really know what each of these dreams mean, but it would be nice if someone could tell me, because they were extremely unusual dreams.

bambi

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Re: Is it auspicious to dream of the Lama
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2012, 04:58:22 AM »
Interesting topic. How did I miss this thread?  :o

Recently, from time to time I do dream of a specific Lama and I can remember Him being in the dream but not what it was about. The first time I dreamed of him I was surprised and happy because it seemed so real, it was as if I was having audience with Him. Then I had some more dreams and it was then I told myself, you just think of Him too much, that's why you're dreaming of Him. I still don't think of it having any special meaning. I believe it is from my subtle mind that I dreamed of Him.