These people claimed they have given up Dorje Shugden practice. They cut ties with Dorje Shugden followers and sometimes they condemn Dorje Shugden practice openly. If it is their gurus’ instructions to serve the 14th Dalai Lama and the 14th Dalai Lama has told them to give up Dorje Shugden practice, do they have to follow?

In the case of Thupten Jinpa and Samdhong Rinpoche, does serving another person means following all the instructions even though the instructions seem to go against what their gurus? Will they accumulate any negative karma?

What he has said about not having a future in the monastery shows he does not have faith in Dharma and Buddha’s teachings. Dharma and what he has learnt when he was in the monastery become a money earning for him. It is a pity that something so precious is used to satisfy one’s greed.

It is sad to see some Buddhist practitioner has degenerated to this level. If we apply Dharma in our lives, our lives and our mind will get better. We will be able to deal with problems more skilfully. We will become happier.

Thanks for your wisdom, teachings and blessings to all sentinent beings. May same spiritual path prevalent through out the life.

the article is very informtive and further shining to our heart

Lama la sawang toey

It would appear that your comments on my earlier post have attracted quite a bit if interest from many quarters, some of which I am obliged to share with readers.

Earlier on I refuted a number of claims you made in your comments to which I welcome a response or a rebuttal from yourself. In the meantime I would like to add a number of points to support the fact that both you and Zemey Rinpoche were ardent practitioners of Dorje Shugden and strong advocates of the Protector.

I have been informed by some senior students of Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche that you have actually received Dorje Shugden’s sogtae (life entrustment initiation/empowerment) from His Holiness Kyabje Zong Rinpoche in Gaden Shartse Monastery many years ago! That was during a time when Kyabje Zong Rinpoche was giving Dorje Shugden sogtae to many Western students, and you were the translator for much of the ceremonies and events. Obviously, Thupten Jinpa you did not consider Dorje Shugden as a worldly protector at that time for if you did, you would not have asked for and received Dorje Shugden’s sogtae. What changed? Did Dorje Shugden suddenly changed after 360 years or did you, for certain reasons, changed?

You also mentioned that Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche “was never an ardent practitioner of worldly protectors”. On the contrary it has also been confirmed that your guru, Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche gave Dorje Shugden sogtae in Gaden Shartse Monastery on many occasions during his life. If indeed He was not an “ardent practitioner” of such Shugden as you claimed, why would Zemey Rinpoche follow and furthermore give the protector’s initiation many times in Ganden itself, which according to you did not encourage the propitiation of worldly gods let alone taking life entrustment under one. Obviously Dorje Shugden is not a worldly protector, and neither Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche did not consider Dorje Shugden as a worldly protector.

Not only that, Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche conducted Dorje Shugden puja and black tea (serkym) to the end of his days, and even when he could not speak anymore due to his illness. Sick as Zemey Rinpoche was with stroke,the great master, your own guru, would still do black tea offerings to Dorje Shugden silently, on a daily basis. This is a fact many close disciples of Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche can and are prepared to attest to.

Contrary to what Thubten Jinpa wrote, he does practice Dorje Shugden. He may have gone underground with his practice but in the monastery, many senior monks know of Thubten Jinpa and that he sponsors Dorje Shugden pujas at Gaden Shartse Tenkhang as thanksgiving for a safe journey after every trip that he goes to translate for His Holiness the Dalai Lama. On top of that, Zemey Ladrang is in Shar Gaden and that means all the monks, students and patrons of the ladrang are practicing Dorje Shugden.

Then, my monk friend paused and he told me that he recalls vividly that an old friend had told him of how Thubten Jinpa first entered the monastery. Apparently, Zemey Rinpoche first encountered Thubten Jinpa in Bylakuppe. It was during this time that Zemey Rinpoche consulted a Dorje Shugden oracle about the boy and Dorje Shugden in trance told Zemey Rinpoche to take care of this boy because he will one day become very famous. In fact, there were many people who had witnessed this.

So, this got me to the point of Zemey Rinpoche and I asked if this High Lama had practiced Dorje Shugden or not. According to Thubten Jinpa, Zemey Rinpoche did not practice Dorje Shugden because he is a worldly protector. When I told him that, he just snorted. He said everybody in the monastery knew Zemey Rinpoche practices Dorje Shugden because the monks at Zemey ladrang would prepare tormas and rituals for a Dorje Shugden puja every month. It is obvious that if everyone in the ladrang is practicing Dorje Shugden, Zemey Rinpoche must have taught them to practice.

In fact, he said he knew of a few older monks and Geshes in Gaden Shartse who would fold their hands with tears in their eyes and talk about witnessing Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche performing Dorje Shugden pujas together in the old days. He also said that he knew the attendant of the late Choyang Duldzin Kuten and that in the old days; he was told that it is quite normal for Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche to consult Dorje Shugden via the oracle because he trusted Dorje Shugden’s counsel very much especially on important matters. On many occasions, when the oracle took trance of Shugden, Zemey Rinpoche would pose questions and follow through the answers. On top of that, Zemey Rinpoche’s monastery called Yangting Dechen Ling Monastery in Kham, Tibet, continues to practice Dorje Shugden to this day.

Then I asked the monk what he thought of Thubten Jinpa’s statement of Dorje Shugden as a worldly deity. The monk shook his head and said sadly that he doesn’t know why such a brilliant Geshe and student of Zemey Rinpoche would say such things. Zemey Rinpoche is a great student of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and everybody in the monastery knows that Trijang Rinpoche is one of the highest lamas of the land and the tutor of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. In Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s Sumbum or collected works, especially on the volume of Dorje Shugden, Trijang Rinpoche clearly states that Dorje Shugden is a super-mundane protector or a protector that is enlightened. All of us know that Zemey Rinpoche was a fierce and loyal student of Trijang Rinpoche. So, he must have propagated the same belief in Dorje Shugden’s nature. In fact, if you ask any Geshe in the monastery to debate on the nature of Dorje Shugden, Thubten Jinpa’s views would easily be refuted.

After telling me all that, the monk pondered and he said that he felt that the point of the Thubten Jinpa’s article on the website was actually about Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche being a Dorje Shugden practitioner and so is Thubten Jinpa. With that in mind, much of what Thubten Jinpa wrote in his reply about the Dalai Lama forgiving Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche and seeing him again seemed irrelevant to the original intent of the article. The monk thought that perhaps, it was just a distraction or a smokescreen to cover the fact that he too may have practiced Dorje Shugden.

Having come to this point, I asked the monk what he thought was the reason behind Thunten Jinpa’s anti-Shugden views. He shrugged his shoulders and just said that Thubten Jinpa is well-known to be a hard-line supporter of the Dorje Shugden ban. He wouldn’t say more after that.

Thanks,
G

I was very much taken aback by your reply to Mar Nee on the article “Thupten Jinpa prostrates to his Guru’s throne” on dorjeshugden.com. There are so many pointers of your refutation which are wrong to the fact that it has caused me, a supporter of the Gaden tradition so much shame and anger.

I was very happy when I heard of news of you establishing close contacts with Zemey Ladrang and going back to the Ladrang to offer your respects, help and support. It was a proof to me that as a son of Gaden, you are still true to your practice and words. But when I read your justifications on this website, I totally lost all the respect I had in you.

The Guru, from whom you learn what to adopt and abandon, stands as the pinnacle of everything in our spiritual life. Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche is one of the heart sons of HH Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang who is also the junior tutor of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. There can be no doubt that Dorje Shugden’s practice remains as his main practice and upholding this practice will only be the thing that Zemey Rinpoche will do for the rest of his life. To abandon what the Lama has given him will be breaking his Samaya and connection with Trijang Rinpoche. No Rinpoche the caliber of Zemey Rinpoche will do that! I believe as a supporter of the Gandenpas that Zemey Rinpoche will not abandon his Lama’s teachings and advice.

It was clear back then that His Holiness was not happy with the appearance of the Yellow Book which was penned by Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche. Granted that His Holiness gave numerous private audiences to Zemey Rinpoche and have forgiven him for the past, your Lama has not been cleared of his tainted name. If Zemey Rinpoche was really forgiven, why would he still be doing continuous prostrations outside the Gompa instead be allowed into the hall of His Holiness and receive teachings?

*On many occasions when His Holiness the Dalai Lama was giving teachings in the great monasteries, His Eminence Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche was prostrating outside the teaching hall and many monks from all three great Gelug monasteries witnessed this!

If Zemey Rinpoche was really forgiven, my next question to you, my fellow brethren Tibetan is why did you not clear your Lama’s name with your influence and devotion? May I remind you that it is through the kindness of your Lama, whom you met for the first time in Bylakuppe took you into his folds and nurtured you and given you all the education, care and sustenance in his own household during your growing years so that you can be equipped with the knowledge to serve as translator to the Dalai Lama. How can you now turn against your Lama by giving justifications as you have written and not clear his name accordingly?

To make my point firm that Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche is a practitioner of Dorje Shugden, members of Zemey Ladrang in Gaden Shartse who are aged 40 and above have now joined Shar Gaden Monastery. They hold strong to their vows and commitments to their Guru and have never wavered. When Zemey Rinpoche was alive, it was known throughout Shartse that Rinpoche does his monthly Dorje Shugden pujas in his Ladrang and will have monks come make tormas and do the proper ritual setup.

Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche has many senior students who are very well learned and who kept their monk vows very clean such as Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche and Kundeling Rinpoche are strong practitioners of Dorje Shugden. Very often we will hear Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche offering long life pujas to Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche in Zemey Ladrang. They are shining examples of how much they love their Lama even until this present day.

On a personal note, I am citing these examples because I know for a fact that this is the truth. Guru devotion is very important within the Gaden system of Buddhism and as a translator for His Holiness who gives teachings, you should know better than all of us.

The pointers of refutation in response to Mar Nee may look real in the eyes of the public but they are not from Gaden nor are they closely acquainted to the system of study and learning there. Hence it is not fair or right for you to write such baseless refutations.

There is no doubt that Gaden has been propitiating enlightened protectors since the advent of tradition but there is also Shidak Genye who is a mountain god from the birthplace of our founder, Je Tsongkhapa. Your claim that both Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche and yourself are nowhere close in interest of worldly protector worship is false in nature. Apart from the 5 great protectors of Gaden; Kalarupa, Gonpo, Gonkar, Namtse and Palden Lhamo, the worship of Shidak Genye is also one of the main part of Gaden’s daily pujas.

Hence, when you say that you are critical about propitiating worldly protectors when you were in Gaden, what about Shidak Genye who every Gaden monk needs to worship? Shidak Genye’s image is kept within the main prayer hall of Gaden Lachi and his worship, prayers and serkyem offerings are done every single day to him.

Also, according to HH Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche who not only is the junior tutor of HH Dalai Lama but also the guru of Gaden, Drepung and Sera, enlightened protectors manifests themselves in worldly form such as Setrap Chen and Dorje Shugden. If Trijang Rinpoche is right with the other Dharmas which he has taught, why isn’t he right with the practice of Dorje Shugden?

Many of the senior monks of Gaden Shartse, Shar Gaden and Zemey Ladrang know for a fact that whenever you were out to travel and translate for HH Dalai Lama, you will request for pujas to be done in Tenkhang, the Dorje Shugden protector house in Gaden. And whenever you return from a teaching trip, you would do the same in thanksgiving. How much more would you want to be critical in your worship of Dorje Shugden if it has not been critical enough?
The very fact that Zemey Ladrang joined Shar Gaden monastery and whose raison d’etre as you mention is to do the practice of Dorje Shugden clearly indicates that the head of the Ladrang initiated this practice which members of the Ladrang have chosen to remember their teacher by continuing the practice.
I hope that with the explanation I have presented in my reply would be more than enough to ensure that the pointers are factual truths which cannot be altered with time. It is my heartfelt wish that people who are reading this know the truth from the turn of these events.

Thupten Lundrup